Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;875812]Your crazy man Brady has never had the talent PM has had at WR and when EJ was his rb not even close.. tom had moss for a couple years that's it. Look at his wr corp and rbs over his 3 that's right 3 super bowl titles

#Hail to the Redskins[/quote]

Actually on the contrary. All of this time Brady might have had more talent then Peyton. I mean look at what happened to the Colts with Manning out and compare that to how the Patriots did without Brady. Colts ended up with the number 1 pick while the Patriots went 11-5.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=NC_Skins;875838]Which is why New England traded a 2nd round pick for him. :rolleyes:[/quote]

Compare the stats. New England probably had 3 second round picks that year. 687 yards in Miami and nearly 1200 a year later.

687 yards is JACK SHIT regardless of what New England gave up for him.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=44Deezel;875839]Yeah, but they went 18-1 the year before with Brady, and he set the single season record for TDs with 50 (breaking Manning's record). If it weren't for mind boggling drops by Brady's receivers, Manning wouldn't even have a ring. He put his team ahead with 2 minutes to go against the Giants in the Super Bowl, and it took one of the biggest circus plays of all time for the Giants to win that game. Brady is clutch while Manning spends 30 seconds each play trying to figure out how he's going to outsmart the Defense, which in the playoffs, has backfired for him. One of his teammates who was not an idiot Kicker even said so.

Brady = Montana
Manning = Marino[/quote]

Didn't Brady have Moss for those 50 TDs where Moss caught 23 of them? Both are great but I gotta put Manning ahead by a smige.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=mooby;875816]Boy, right as I'm starting to warm up to the idea of Tebow being better than I think he is and the fact that he's one of the true role models in the NFL, he goes out and lays this egg. Think Elway is regretting his decision to name Tebow his starting qb next season?[/quote]

Nah, he wasn't going to beat NE by himself. I say keep building around him. The fact that Denver got as far as they did shouldn't be overlooked.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;875844]Didn't Brady have Moss for those 50 TDs where Moss caught 23 of them? Both are great but I gotta put Manning ahead by a smige.[/quote]

Fair enough, but 36 TDs and only 4TDs without Moss.

Plus, Moss must have not been that good because New England only gave up a 4th round pick to get him.

If Welker is all world because he warranted a 2nd round pick than Moss must not be all that because they only traded a 4th to get him.

Just assuming you're consistent with your logic;)

Nc I understand the defense but we are taking qb play here and Tom is as clutch as there's every been, I never said he didn't have a good team I said he didn't have the offensive help pm had and that's just the truth

#Hail to the Redskins

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=44Deezel;875839]Yeah, but they went 18-1 the year before with Brady, and he set the single season record for TDs with 50 (breaking Manning's record). If it weren't for mind boggling drops by Brady's receivers, Manning wouldn't even have a ring. He put his team ahead with 2 minutes to go against the Giants in the Super Bowl, and it took one of the biggest circus plays of all time for the Giants to win that game. Brady is clutch while Manning spends 30 seconds each play trying to figure out how he's going to outsmart the Defense, which in the playoffs, has backfired for him. One of his teammates who was not an idiot Kicker even said so.
[/quote]

You do realize the year that Manning broke the TD record they actually pulled him in games. They weren't trying to get the record unlike Belicheck and Brady who stayed into the 4th quarter up by 30 and still throwing bombs. Our game in New England should prove my point.

That's the only way he breaks Manning's record, and the most important game of the season and where were those TDs and offense? Nowhere to be found. Choked. The great Tom Brady choked.


Tell me who this player that called out Peyton is. Backfired? Have you seen the numbers that Peyton has accumulated? Looks like it backfired.

Some of you Brady nut huggers are incredible. You refuse to acknowledge that Tom was (still is) on a better team, yet claim that Manning had all the talent even though it's shown that same talent did nothing before or after him. DERP.

I'm done with this.

[QUOTE=Dirtbag59;875842]Actually on the contrary. All of this time Brady might have had more talent then Peyton. I mean look at what happened to the Colts with Manning out and compare that to how the Patriots did without Brady. Colts ended up with the number 1 pick while the Patriots went 11-5.[/QUOTE]

Again that pats team was loaded and I admitted that but overall pm has had more talent on offense than Tom has or had anyway

#Hail to the Redskins

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;875849]Nc I understand the defense but we are taking qb play here and Tom is as clutch as there's every been, I never said he didn't have a good team I said he didn't have the offensive help pm had and that's just the truth

#Hail to the Redskins[/quote]


How many playoff games has Tom drove in the last few minutes to win the game with a TD? I mean a TD, not a FG via Vinateri.


Didn't have the offensive help even though I showed you that same "help" did NOTHING without him. Still no answer to that.

/facepalm



[quote=skinsfaninok;875853]Again that pats team was loaded and I admitted that but overall pm has had more talent on offense than Tom has or had anyway

#Hail to the Redskins[/quote]

You claim the team was loaded, yet say Peyton had ALL the talent. You know how retarded that sounds?

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;875854]How many playoff games has Tom drove in the last few minutes to win the game with a TD? I mean a TD, not a FG via Vinateri.


Didn't have the offensive help even though I showed you that same "help" did NOTHING without him. Still no answer to that.

/facepalm[/QUOTE]

Lmao are we taking about tds or wins?? What's more important here man? Btw what's the head to head record of the two?

#Hail to the Redskins

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

I agree Matty nice season for the Broncos. Those guys started out something like 1-4 or 1-5 put in Tebow, then win the AFC West and make it to the second round of the playoffs? Man that would be a fun time for a Bronco fan. You gotta still give the guy props. They need some more pieces and getting Tebow a full off season of work should help if they feel he is the future. Which with his knack for winning I think Denver would be fools not to give Tim the chance to play a full year.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=NC_Skins;875823]Absolutely no way. Again, let's look at the defenses. Having a top 5 defense compared to having a bottom 5 defense. It's not even REMOTELY in the same ball park.

Again. The cold hard facts that the Patriots go 11-5 WITHOUT Brady solidifies my argument and pretty much makes yours invalid. The fact the Colts go from a 10-6 playoff team to the #1 draft pick in the NFL also backs up that case.


Hey guys, I guess Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are better QBs than Dan Marino!!! That's pretty much the type of argument you are using.[/quote]

Actually going back to the Patriots first SB under Brady in 2001 here's how the teams actually compare defense wise:
Patriots: 24th*, 23rd, 7th*, 9th*, 26th, 4th*, 6th, 10th, 11th, 25th, & 31st
Colts: 29th, 8th, 11th, 29th, 11th, 21st*, 3rd, 11th, 18th, 20th, & 25th

As you can see the only time in the last 11 years the Patriots were an actual top 5 defense like u keep harping on, was when they lost to the Giants in SB XLII.

Just the fact you're trying to compare, even if only sarcasticly, what Brady has done to the likes of Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson is a joke and IMO invalidates any argument you could even begin to piece together haha. Those 2 won rings 100% because of their defenses in the years the Bucs and Ravens won and sometimes in spite of their play(Bucs #1 def vs 24th off & Ravens #2 def vs 16th off) Whereas the 3 Superbowl championships of the Patriots just don't happen without Brady at the helm as 2 of them required him to lead them on game winning drives.

Also what happened with that 11-5 Patriots team when Brady went down? Oh that's right they didn't even make the playoffs...

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=Mattyk;875845]Nah, he wasn't going to beat NE by himself. I say keep building around him. The fact that Denver got as far as they did shouldn't be overlooked.[/quote]

I'm starting to warm to the idea that he might, key word *might* have a bright future in the NFL. Obviously he's got room to progress, and more weapons will help too, but if he doesn't take the next step it won't happen. He's gonna have to put in a lot of work in the offseason to be better.

Side note: LOL at McNabb on NFLN. What, nobody wants him anymore? :laughing-. He's the perfect analyst to figure out why Tebow went 9 for 26.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=Mattyk;875845]Nah, he wasn't going to beat NE by himself. I say keep building around him. The fact that Denver got as far as they did shouldn't be overlooked.[/quote]


I dunno Matty, I think their offense is struggling due to the limitations of Tebow. I think they've had to tailor their offense around his skill set which is why you see them running the option. It's like the Miami Dolphins running the wildcat formation. Sure it worked for a New York minute, then it all caught up to them the following year.

[QUOTE=skinsfanthru&thru;875857]Actually going back to the Patriots first SB under Brady in 2001 here's how the teams actually compare defense wise:
Patriots: 24th*, 23rd, 7th*, 9th*, 26th, 4th*, 6th, 10th, 11th, 25th, & 31st
Colts: 29th, 8th, 11th, 29th, 11th, 21st*, 3rd, 11th, 18th, 20th, & 25th

As you can see the only time in the last 11 years the Patriots were an actual top 5 defense like u keep harping on, was when they lost to the Giants in SB XLII.

Just the fact you're trying to compare, even if only sarcasticly, what Brady has done to the likes of Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson is a joke and IMO invalidates any argument you could even begin to piece together haha. Those 2 won rings 100% because of their defenses in the years the Bucs and Ravens won and sometimes in spite of their play(Bucs #1 def vs 24th off & Ravens #2 def vs 16th off) Whereas the 3 Superbowl championships of the Patriots just don't happen without Brady at the helm as 2 of them required him to lead them on game winning drives.

Also what happened with that 11-5 Patriots team when Brady went down? Oh that's right they didn't even make the playoffs...[/QUOTE]

Thank you!!

#Hail to the Redskins

Like I said Brady s teams were no better overall than peytons and the stats are right there for u to look at. Period

#Hail to the Redskins

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

What kind of bear is best?

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=skinsfanthru&thru;875857]Patriots: 24th*, 23rd, 7th*, 9th*, 26th, 4th*, 6th, 10th, 11th, 25th, & 31st
Colts: 29th, 8th, 11th, 29th, 11th, 21st*, 3rd, 11th, 18th, 20th, & 25th

As you can see the only time in the last 11 years the Patriots were an actual top 5 defense like u keep harping on, was when they lost to the Giants in SB XLII. .[/quote]

You may want to sort that by points per game. You can't always go on the "yards" stats because who cares if a defense gives up 500 yards of offense, but only allows 13 points? In 2003, they were 26th in total defense, but ranked 1st in points/game with 14.9.

The years they won the Super Bowl, they were highly rank. I was referencing that as to why Tom won more Super Bowls. Ok, so it was top 7 and not top 5. MY BAD.

I've done the research on this crap before arguing with Brady nuts, and they points allowed defense was much much better.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=Lotus;875866]What kind of bear is best?[/quote]

I bear tit is best.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=Lotus;875866]What kind of bear is best?[/quote]

lol perfect

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=NC_Skins;875861]I dunno Matty, I think their offense is struggling due to the limitations of Tebow. I think they've had to tailor their offense around his skill set which is why you see them running the option. It's like the Miami Dolphins running the wildcat formation. Sure it worked for a New York minute, then it all caught up to them the following year.[/quote]

You have to remember that he did not start the season and it was not until the 2nd qtr of the year they started Tebow. Who knows what will happen over the next year.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=NC_Skins;875861]I dunno Matty, I think their offense is struggling due to the limitations of Tebow. I think they've had to tailor their offense around his skill set which is why you see them running the option. It's like the Miami Dolphins running the wildcat formation. Sure it worked for a New York minute, then it all caught up to them the following year.[/quote]

He's a 2nd year QB, gotta give the guy a chance.

Who would have thought back in August Denver would have been even playing tonight?

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=firstdown;875870]You have to remember that he did not start the season and it was not until the 2nd qtr of the year they started Tebow. Who knows what will happen over the next year.[/quote]

We don't. My guess...DCs figure out how to stop a gimmicky offense like they usually do and Tebow is forced to try and succeed in a more traditional manner...I'm not terribly confident he can do so. But he will get his chance. I do think he has earned it now.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=firstdown;875868]I bear tit is best.[/quote]

Interesting

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

Manning is one of, if not the, greatest regular season QB's of all time. Brady is one of the best post season QB's of all time. Brady had better all around coaching than manning, because statistically, their defense's and offenses may have had some similar years statisically, but when it came to X's and O's Belichik was better than Dungy as a defensive coordinator. Also brady's teams were more balanced offense, defense, special teams, than mannings teams. I remember one year Indy had like the 2-3 ranked offense in the league and the 29-32 ranked defense, and they were out of the playoffs game one. Brady's had better all around position guys than manning. If you gave manning welker, moss, gaffney, and stallworth I guarantee you he would put up 50+ TD's.

Like people have mentioned, NE without Brady went 11-5. Indy without manning went 2-14. You can not ignore that. NE has a better organization base and system than Indy does. It's that simple. NE was willing to spend some seasons to get Brady better weapons, where as the colts were drafting unknowns or getting defenseman or not signing any good receivers for manning.


I've always looked at it like this;

What if manning was on NE and Brady was in Indy? What if Brady was on the 0-16 Lions? What about Manning? I feel like Manning is a win better than Brady. I also feel like If Manning was on NE, with Belichiek, that they would have won one more super bowl than Brady.


But honestly, right now, I would take Rodgers over both of them.


and Tom Brady's a douche.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=NC_Skins;875867]I've done the research on this crap before arguing with Brady nuts, and they points allowed defense was much much better.[/quote]

Not so much a Brady nut as much as I can appreciate and acknowledge greatness. My personal favorite qb of all time is Marino, but I would still put Brady above him all time when it came to ranking them without personal bias or favortism involved. Brady haters on the other hand always amaze me.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;875797]Here's the funny thing though. The 49ers have been an after thought in the Bay Area for the last 10 years. Hell, not even KNBR would talk about them, they'd still cover and pontificate about the Giants months after their season has ended smack dab in the middle of the NFL season. You use to see 49er jerseys everywhere, until most of those fair weather fans jumped ship to the Raiders once they became the hot team, now you hardly see any 49er jerseys. But after this weekend, it's going to be the 1980's all over again. Fair weather fans will tuck away their Raider Jerseys and put on their 49er jerseys. I have no escape becase my fiance is a die-hard 49er fan, so I've softened on them a bit.[/quote]

It has already started here.. weeks ago.. all the old heads that were SF bandwagoneers are showing up in the DC area

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

Little fun fact for you all. The redskins have played the super bowl champion for the past 5 years.

2010 Packers
2009 Saints
2008 Steelers
2007 Giants
2006 Colts


So Patriots, 49ers, Giants..very good chance it's one of them. (I hate NE)

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

I think Brady and Manning are both great QBs. Personally, I could not for certainty say that one is better than the other. In the end, Brady will end up with the better career, given that Manning's may be over. If we want to talk about advantage, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Bill Belichick. He has been the constant in Brady's career and the main reason the Patriots are so dominant (even without Brady).

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

Bill B is a big reason for Tom's success.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

I will say that any QB from this era will never compare to any of the old QBs. The Patriots and Colts have been responsible for many rules that blew up the NFL passing game. Because of the Colts, the NFL implemented the "no touching WRs beyond 5 yds" rule and then there's the Brady Rule.

[QUOTE=artmonkforhallofamein07;875892]Bill B is a big reason for Tom's success.[/QUOTE]

U do know BB is a defensive coach right

#Hail to the Redskins

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=44Deezel;875848]Fair enough, but 36 TDs and only 4TDs without Moss.

Plus, Moss must have not been that good because New England only gave up a 4th round pick to get him.

If Welker is all world because he warranted a 2nd round pick than Moss must not be all that because they only traded a 4th to get him.

Just assuming you're consistent with your logic;)[/quote]

Now we all know that might be the biggest steal of all time. The Raiders gave up on him and he wanted out. People thought he was finished.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=Ruhskins;875893]I will say that any QB from this era will never compare to any of the old QBs. The Patriots and Colts have been responsible for many rules that blew up the NFL passing game. Because of the Colts, the NFL implemented the "no touching WRs beyond 5 yds" rule and then there's the Brady Rule.[/quote]

It was the Steelers of the late 70 that were the ones responsible for the passing rule changes because their D was so good. The Colts benefitted from those no touching rules, they didnt cause them.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

A couple thoughts on yesterday:

1) really, really cool what Alex Smith did. Are those throws representative of the "real" Alex Smith, able to match Drew Brees shot for shot? No, of course not. But that's why sports are great.

2) The Broncos defense was really overrated all year. It wasn't all thatgood under Kyle Orton, it really wasn't much better for Tim Tebow in the regular season, and it got totally torched in the postseason. Even after they got Elvis Dumerville back, it was really only just the Redskins defense dressed in blue. Denver had a lot of good fortune all year, but the only difference between the team that began 1-4 and the one that finished 8-5 was play in the clutch.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;875899]Now we all know that might be the biggest steal of all time. The Raiders gave up on him and he wanted out. People thought he was finished.[/quote]The Haynesworth trade could have easily been the same thing. Alas, the big guy might actually be finished, at least as a down to down, week to week NFL player.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;875798]I've said it before and I'll say it again Tom Brady is the greatest qb in NFL history
[/quote]

Nope,why becuase ..it's a different ere.Serously my head is hurting from this discussion.Montana,Young,Marino,Simms,Dan Fouts...etc. all played when you had to take a hit ,not flagg football like now.Yes the records are dropping becuase very few teams are running like they did in the 90's or 80's or even the 70's.
Is Peyton great ,is Tom great....is Drew great....answer is yes,but of all time ,no.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

A third thought:

It's probably time to seriously start considering the question whether Drew Brees or Tom Brady is having the better career. Both are in their mid thirties now, and if you look at their careers as a while, no two players in the history of the NFL are more statistically similar than Brees and Brady. I know people don't necessarily think of Drew Brees as a surefire hall of famer the way they do of Brady, but these guys are both hall of fame locks, and I think if Brees has the better "final five years" of their respective careers (if he ages better), then it would be tough to say that Brees isn't the historically greater player.

It's close right now, but I would lean edge: Brady because if nothing else, he has a couple games a year which come outdoors in frigid weather which Brees avoids.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=irish;875900]It was the Steelers of the late 70 that were the ones responsible for the passing rule changes because their D was so good. The Colts benefitted from those no touching rules, they didnt cause them.[/quote]

That is true.... but it really wasn't being enforced until Bill Polian and the Colts started crying to the NFL after one of the championship games (03 or 04) where their wr's basically got mugged.

Re: Around The NFL - Divisional Round
 

[quote=Ruhskins;875893]I will say that any QB from this era will never compare to any of the old QBs. The Patriots and Colts have been responsible for many rules that blew up the NFL passing game. Because of the Colts, the NFL implemented the "no touching WRs beyond 5 yds" rule and then there's the Brady Rule.[/quote]

Tom Brady could play in any era. The guy is simply a great QB and a true field general. But I also would've liked to see what guys like Marino and Fouts would've done in today's game. Warren Moon might have thrown for 6,000 yards!