[QUOTE=SirClintonPortis;884357]Eagles Oline was pretty bad this season, and quite often he would stay in the pocket instead of leaving it.[/QUOTE]

The point is vick is not a traditional passer and has rare talents but can never make the throw needed to be clutch. Rg3 is very similar to that and it's why I'd be worried ntm running qb s don't last long

[QUOTE=los panda;884356]no. believe it or not, i have not trained with peyton manning.[/QUOTE]

I've seen some say his arm is fine and some say it's still a work in progress so who knows

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Because RGIII is a run first QB right?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;884359]I've seen some say his arm is fine and some say it's still a work in progress so who knows[/quote]i know that this is going to continue into the summer. if passes a team physical and shows a team his laser in a workout, i'll be happy to eat my words. until then, he is worthless as a starting qb

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;884360]Because RGIII is a run first QB right?[/QUOTE]

He runs a lot

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

He does? He's a pocket passer with the ability to scramble and has Michael Vick type speed. Cam Newton runs a lot, Early Michael Vick runs a lot. RGIII doesn't play like either one of them really. Since when is being able to evade pressure a knock. We went through a similar thing with Brandon Banks. Too small, what if someone gets a direct hit on him he'll get killed, what if I rode a bike down the side of the Sears tower? What if a dog gave birth to a cat. At 6'2" 220+ lbs RGIII isn't 5'11" 190 like Vick. I don't see him running as much as you think although his ability to run can't be seen as a negative.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;884362]He runs a lot[/quote]

I guess that settles that. I thought his preposterously good passing stats and skills meant something, myself.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[QUOTE=biffle;884365]I guess that settles that. I thought his preposterously good passing stats and skills meant something, myself.[/QUOTE]

LOL. Nope. He runs a lot.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

RG3 is a great athlete and I'd love to have him BUT not ahead of P.Manning.. And yes he can pass but he also played against very bad defenses and had an outstanding WR to throw to. Some seem to think he can make a CAM NEWTON impact from day 1 and I just don't see it sorry.

I went to the Baylor game last season and I was crazy impressed with him but again in the NFL you have to make all the throws and many of his are always just the deep ball

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Get peyton manning, trade down to get 2 solid linemen to protect him, get the next tom brady on the later rounds. win superbowl as early as next year and save Mike shanahans Job.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=bertoskins2;884368]get peyton manning, trade down to get 2 solid linemen to protect him, get the next tom brady on the later rounds. Win superbowl as early as next year and save mike shanahans job.[/quote]

brilliant!

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=44Deezel;884351]If he can't drop back and be an elite passer in a pro style system I don't want him. Big Ben, Manning brothers, Brady, Brees and Rodgers. That's the kind of QB play that wins Super Bowls. Give me a guy like that. If RGIII needs a special offense that caters to his unique skillset then we shouldn't be trading up to get him. I don't want to rely on his legs and am not interested in a gimmicky offense. Let some other team run with that experiment. Until I see someone win it all like that, count me not interested.

For the record, I'm in the neither camp unless RGIII falls to 6 and the Shanny's assess him to be an ideal fit for their system.
[/quote]How does anyone know right now what type of QB Griffin will [I][B]become[/B][/I]?

We don't know and can't know.
The only thing we can judge is Griffin's [I][B]skillset[/B][/I].

BTW-
Scrambling athleitc QBs like Joe Montana, Steve Young, Brett Favre, John Elway, Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodger have also won SBs.
There have also been a bunch of pocket passers that have lost SBs or never been to SB or failed to even be good QBs.

Also just because Baylor runs a spread doesn't mean that Griffin can [I][B]only[/B][/I] succeed in a spread.
Further spread QBs have been making the transition into the NFL for awhile now since Ben Roethlisberger to Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford, Joe Flacco.
While at the same time NFL passing games are running more and more spread concepts.
The undefeated Patriots were largely a spread offense, current Bills offense is a spread, the Panthers/Broncos are spread and zone-read heavy offenses, the Packers run alot of spread etc.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Trading up and drafting RG3 is a wiser move than signing Manning. With Manning, you would have to give not only full control of the offense, but tweak the offense and mix things in with the playbook he used in Indy and incorporate those plays in conjunction to Mike Shanahan's plays. Also, Kyle Shanahan while being the offensive coordinator would still have that role, but Manning would be calling his own plays in the huddle.

Then there's the factor that not one free agent signing or trade has done Washington any good when it comes to the QB position. Brad Johnson, Mark Brunell, Todd Collins, and Donovan McNabb only took the Redskins so far. That would tell anyone that you can't win playoff games and Super Bowls with QBs from other teams. In today's National Football League, you have to follow the formula of other teams and draft your own QB in the first round. There those QBs who were selected in the first round of the draft who guide their teams to the playoffs year in and year out. Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Big Ben, Aaron Rogers, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, a few others were first round draft choices. The only exception is Jay Cutler, who in 2010 took the Bears to the NFC title game but he wasn't drafted by them.

The Redskins must duplicate the usual formula in this era of pro football. While signing yet another free agent quarterback would make me roll my eyes and frown, taking either Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin III would put a huge smile on my face. Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan must trade up even if it includes giving up next year's first rounder in addition to this year's to land the quarterback that the Redskins need.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=30gut;884370]How does anyone know right now what type of QB Griffin will [I][B]become[/B][/I]?

We don't know and can't know.
The only thing we can judge is Griffin's [I][B]skillset[/B][/I].

BTW-
Scrambling athleitc QBs like Joe Montana, Steve Young, Brett Favre, John Elway, Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodger have also won SBs.
There have also been a bunch of pocket passers that have lost SBs or never been to SB or failed to even be good QBs.

Also just because Baylor runs a spread doesn't mean that Griffin can [I][B]only[/B][/I] succeed in a spread.
Further spread QBs have been making the transition into the NFL for awhile now since Ben Roethlisberger to Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford, Joe Flacco.
While at the same time NFL passing games are running more and more spread concepts.
The undefeated Patriots were largely a spread offense, current Bills offense is a spread, the Panthers/Broncos are spread and zone-read heavy offenses, the Packers run alot of spread etc.[/quote]


You said it perfect.... We dont know if RG can make all the passes to be a good QB, BUT we do know Peyton Manning can and can at the highest level of anyone..

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;884371]Trading up and drafting RG3 is a wiser move than signing Manning. [B]With Manning, you would have to give not only full control of the offense, but tweak the offense and mix things in[/B] with the playbook he used in Indy and incorporate those plays in conjunction to Mike Shanahan's plays. Also, Kyle Shanahan while being the offensive coordinator would still have that role, but Manning would be calling his own plays in the huddle.

Then there's the factor that not one free agent signing or trade has done Washington any good when it comes to the QB position. Brad Johnson, Mark Brunell, Todd Collins, and Donovan McNabb only took the Redskins so far. That would tell anyone that you can't win playoff games and Super Bowls with QBs from other teams. In today's National Football League, you have to follow the formula of other teams and draft your own QB in the first round. There those QBs who were selected in the first round of the draft who guide their teams to the playoffs year in and year out. Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Big Ben, Aaron Rogers, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, a few others were first round draft choices. The only exception is Jay Cutler, who in 2010 took the Bears to the NFC title game but he wasn't drafted by them.

The Redskins must duplicate the usual formula in this era of pro football. While signing yet another free agent quarterback would make me roll my eyes and frown, taking either Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin III would put a huge smile on my face. Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan must trade up even if it includes giving up next year's first rounder in addition to this year's to land the quarterback that the Redskins need.[/quote]


So winning 10 plus games and possible playoff run isn't worth that huh?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

From KC Joyner:

[quote] In his 2010 Heisman Trophy-winning campaign with the Auburn Tigers, Newton averaged 9.3 yards per attempt (YPA) in games against opponents from BCS conferences. He also tallied a 12.9 vertical YPA (vertical defined as passes thrown 11 or more yards downfield) and a 15.5 stretch vertical YPA (aerials thrown 20 or more yards).

All of those are superb totals, but contrast them with the 2011 totals posted by Griffin in games against opponents from BCS conferences: 10.7 overall YPA (tops in the FBS), 16.0 vertical YPA and 23.0 stretch vertical YPA. Each of Griffin's marks is appreciably better than Newton's. While Griffin may not have the shiftiness Newton possesses, he is a terrific scrambler in his own right with elite speed that defenses must respect.

One of the likely reasons for the statistical edge is that the Baylor Bears' offense had more pro-style tendencies than the run-heavy spread offense Newton played in at Auburn. That allowed Griffin to attack defenses in a wider variety of ways than Newton was able to and should help reduce his pro transition time. [/quote]

Not bad for a running QB.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=44Deezel;884355]Exactly. And how many games does he miss each year?[/quote]How many of Vick's injuries occured in the pocket vs outside the pocket? [YT]hl2uv0f2iFo[/YT]
How many of his injuries are a direct result of his scrambling?
How many of Vick's injuries are due to recklessness more then the actual scramble itself?

How many of the often injured [I]pocket passing[/I] Matt Schaub's injuries come outside the pocket vs inside the pocket?
Or Kurt Warner?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;884373]So winning 10 plus games and possible playoff run isn't worth that huh?[/quote]

Manning is coming off a neck surgery that sidelined him for all of the 2011 season. He wouldn't have the level of QB protection in Washington or the elite level of receivers that he had in Indianapolis. While Manning offers a high reward, he also offers a very high risk. One helmet to helmet hit could injure his neck again.

And there's no guarantee that he'll win ten games for the Redskins. Hankerson, Moss, Gaffney, and F. Davis aren't on par with the level of the receiving corps that Peyton Manning had in Indianapolis.

And then there's the potential with a power struggle. Being a 4 time NFL MVP, Manning will want to call his own plays like he's been doing. Will Mike Shanahan and Kyle Shanahan put their egos aside and let Manning do things he does best? Or will they try and micro manage Manning and make him a Shanahan robot like they tried to do with McNabb?


Peyton is on the decline. While he'll still be effective, he so professional and so good that he doesn't fit the Shanahan pedigree for a QB. Manning would be slow rolling out to his left or to his right.

It's better to let the idea of signing Manning die. We need to draft our QB in the 1st round of the draft like Baltimore, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, New York Giants, New York Jets, and San Francisco did.

Also, Peyton Manning would only offer a short term solution. He's 35-36 years of age, and he's not getting any younger. After the Pop Warner level of quarterback play we witnessed last season with John Beck and Rex Grossman, Allen and Shanahan would want a long term solution. RG3 is that long term solution not because he's dynamic and athletic, but because he's 22 years old with greatness awaiting him at the next level.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;884360]Because RGIII is a run first QB right?[/quote]

[url=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1620788/robert-griffin-iii]Robert Griffin III, Baylor, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com[/url]

They say a lot of great things about him and his accuracy and strength but...

[quote]His accuracy dips on throws inside the pocket and looks most comfortable when he can get outside the hashmarks. [/quote]

Will KS expect him to roll out more or expect him to stay in the pocket like he did a more mobile Beck? I'd expect stay in the pocket.

[quote] Has inconsistent lower body mechanics with messy footwork, throwing of his back foot far too often. Has a three-quarters delivery and unconventional throwing motion with low delivery and release point. Operated out of a shotgun spread offense with various zone and option schemes at Baylor, but hardly a complicated playbook ? doesn?t have experience taking snaps from under center. [/quote]

[quote]. Holds the ball too long and needs to improve his pocket awareness, abandoning his reads too easily. Streaky internal clock and looks to get outside of the pocket too soon. Has questionable vision as a passer, staring down defenders and making puzzling decisions at times. Still makes too many mental mistakes and needs to polish the mental aspect of his game. Forces throws and doesn?t look off defenders ? throws across his body too much and doesn?t anticipate defenders as well as he needs to yet. Needs to develop better pre-snap awareness to see the blitz and recognize what the defense is doing. [/quote]

[quote] Has a lean frame and only adequate height. Not frail, but doesn?t have the body type to withstand a consistent beating. Has more straight-line speed than shifty burst and has added 20+ pounds since his peak as a track star. Has some ball security questions as a runner with several fumbles on his r?sum?. Holds the ball too long and takes unnecessary hits, getting beat up physically ? strong durability concerns and suffered a serious knee injury in 2009. [/quote]

Now I'll admit I took only the negative comments and posted them. I think almost all of us would agree he's a really good QB. I think depending on the situation any of us would take him, some would trade up, some would prefer we take him at #6. So there are reasons why we like him. So I'm pointing out his flaws only because as some would make it sound ... he has none and he's a franchise QB because of it or will be.

No my point is that some of these faults are the basis for our scheme which he supposedly fits into.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Son Of Man;884334]3,000+ posts in just over a year.

Someone needs a social life...
No, social networking doesn't count.[/quote]

Ha! That's fantastic!!

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=los panda;884350]i forgot to explain why i chose rg3. i chose him because manning cannot throw a football the way an nfl qb needs to. he is useless to an nfl team. it was an easy choice between these 2 candidates.[/quote]

:doh:

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;884371]
The Redskins must duplicate the usual formula in this era of pro football. While signing yet another free agent quarterback would make me roll my eyes and frown, [B]taking either Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin III would put a huge smile on my face[/B]. Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan must trade up even if it includes giving up next year's first rounder in addition to this year's to land the quarterback that the Redskins need.[/quote]

Not waisting more then 1 draft pick on said player would put the big smile on my face if we could land one of these, but it's doubtfull. So trading back, continueing with last years fabulous draft by trading back to aquire more picks in order to not only get valuable pieces but to help build up our back up pool.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Lotus;884315]Claiborne, Blackmon, Richardson, Coples, Rieff, Floyd...one of these guys could fall to 6 and have someone jonesing for them. It just takes one smitten team.[/quote]

Not likely IMO. We were able to move last year because a QB fell to our spot. Anythings possible but the QB's are usually what make teams trade up.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SBXVII;884329][QUOTE=celts32;884289][B]Thats highly speculative. A trade down is not always available when you want it.[/B] Regardless that's not really the point. I don't care how many picks it is...I want the QB problem solved LONG TERM. The teams that win consistently in this league are the ones with the franchise QB's. We need to get one if we want to be something more then a surprise playoff team every now and then.
QUOTE]

Just like trading up is just as speculative. There is a lot of unknowns,

What are the Rams asking for? not what we think it should be but what are the Rams asking for?

Are the Rams even willing to trade? maybe they want RGIII?

I think we all want the QB position locked up LONG TERM. But there is no guarentee with RGIII either. Which is why I'm not up for tossing 4+ picks at just one person in hopes he is and possibly later finding out he's not. Now if this was Drew Brees, or Eli Manning or an already established proven QB then I'm all in and would throw 4+ draft picks for the team to get him.[/quote]

Okay so we will continue on the wait for a QB to fall from the sky plan. Everything is a risk...there are no guarantees...but the only thing thats certain is that we are not winning until we find a QB.

To answer your question...if the Rams don't want to trade and want to draft RG3 for themselves then I would do 3 cartwheels and offer them the #6 pick for Bradford.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=celts32;884396]Not likely IMO. We were able to move last year because a QB fell to our spot. Anythings possible but the QB's are usually what make teams trade up.[/quote]

Ok, fair enough. My point wasn't that we WILL trade down, just that the possibility is there.

And, mathematically, one of the guys I listed or RGIII MUST be there at 6 if we assume that Luck and Kahlil will go in the first three.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

RGIII, Claiborne, Blackmon, or Richardson will be there at 6.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Lotus;884398]Ok, fair enough. My point wasn't that we WILL trade down, just that the possibility is there.

And, mathematically, one of the guys I listed or RGIII MUST be there at 6 if we assume that Luck and Kahlil will go in the first three.[/quote]

Got it...I agree one of yours would be there, just don't think they would draw a trade up. Kahlil is the only non QB at the top of the draft I could see drawing a lot of interest. but just like with RG3 if he somehow falls to #6 maybe we should just take him.

Doesn't really matter anyway...my original point is really that getting into position to get Tannehill could end up being just as difficult and nearly as costly as getting RG3.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=celts32;884401]Got it...I agree one of yours would be there, just don't think they would draw a trade up. Kahlil is the only non QB at the top of the draft I could see drawing a lot of interest. but just like with RG3 if he somehow falls to #6 maybe we should just take him.

Doesn't really matter anyway...my original point is really that getting into position to get Tannehill could end up being just as difficult and nearly as costly as getting RG3.[/quote]

That's cool. I don't have a hard argument. I'm just more optimistic than you are than one of those guys could inspire a trade-down scenario for us.

I'm also more optimistic than many people here that RGIII will be there at 6.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=biffle;884339]Yeah, you kind of did. None of those trades you mention have the trading up teams giving up as much as you have us doing, save for the Leaf fiasco.

If next year's first was considered to have the value of this year's second, then we would be giving up more than the full price of the value chart without giving up the two 4ths you include. And every organiztion worth anything realizes a future 1st is worth more than that.[/quote]


The other two were trades where they had 0 leverage so the pick was devalued. Now you have a situation where there are multiple teams wanting the pick, and without the huge contracts that rookies used to get. That pick has now become more valuable than it was prior.


2012 -1st
2012-3rd
2012- 4th

2013-1st
2013- 5th
----------------------------
2012-1st
2012-2nd

2013- 1st
2013- 4th
---------------

My scenario was a estimation, and it wasn't overblown that much even though you think it is. I can see several packages like the one above given for that pick.

The Panther's traded their 2010 1st rounder for a 2009 2nd round pick (43rd) worth 470 points.

You want to know why it cost the Chargers so much to move from #3 to #2? It was because of the person at stake. At the time, Leaf was perceived to have a higher ceiling than Peyton.

Fast forward to now. RGIII is also being touted as a top prospect along with Luck and is said to have a higher ceiling. He's obviously good enough for Irsay to mention both him and Luck.

Put that #2 up for bid, and the price could sky rocket if teams start a bidding war. If you want to argue about me adding an additional 4th or 5th to the chart, than by all means haggle away. It was a rough estimate, but it was enough to show that we dont' want to give up that much for one guy.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=bertoskins2;884368]Get peyton manning, trade down to get 2 solid linemen to protect him, get the next tom brady on the later rounds. win superbowl as early as next year and save Mike shanahans Job.[/quote]

And then sit back and pop the bubbly! Why haven't we thought of this before?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Son Of Man;884334]3,000+ posts in just over a year.

Someone needs a social life...
No, social networking doesn't count.[/quote]

Matty, Smoot, I think he's talking to you two.
:silly:



C'mon guy? Insults? Dude, most of my posts come at work. Yes, I get paid to post on the Warpath and it comes compliments of the taxpayers. Does that make you mad bro? :cool-smil

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Lotus;884402]That's cool. I don't have a hard argument. I'm just more optimistic than you are than one of those guys could inspire a trade-down scenario for us.

I'm also more optimistic than many people here that RGIII will be there at 6.[/quote]

I would love to be proved wrong and get RG3 at 6

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Lotus;884402]That's cool. I don't have a hard argument. I'm just more optimistic than you are than one of those guys could inspire a trade-down scenario for us.

I'm also more optimistic than many people here that RGIII will be there at 6.[/quote]

I don't think I'm as optimistic as you are about RG3 being there at 6, but I think it's a believable scenario. And if it does happen, we better take him. *shakes fist*. But if the FO used that potential scenario to trade down and get more picks to help Peyton out, I'd be comfortable with that too. But if we had any other FA qb instead of Peyton and RG3 fell to us, well then I'd definitely want us to take him.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Man this is a tough decision. I say pick up Peyton if he is close to 100%. The Skins can't pass up the once in a lifetime chance. I like RgIII if he falls to six. It's not a wise move to give up that many picks for one player. We have way too many holes to fill.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=celts32;884397][quote=SBXVII;884329]

Okay so we will continue on the wait for a QB to fall from the sky plan. Everything is a risk...there are no guarantees...but the only thing thats certain is that we are not winning until we find a QB.

To answer your question...if the Rams don't want to trade and want to draft RG3 for themselves then I would do 3 cartwheels and offer them the #6 pick for Bradford.[/quote]

No, rumor last week was the Shanahans were not really infatuated with any of the QB's this year other then Luck and he will be taken by the Colts. They were interested in Barkely but as we all know he stayed in college.

Now there are several ways to build a team and a couple of the most common is to take a QB, then build around him. If this was the Shanahan's first year I'd argue for this method. However there is another way in which the team builds the OL and gets all the supporting cast then pulls the trigger on a QB who will not have as big a learning curve because the supporting cast is already in place. Since we've already waisted 2 years collecting talent and not getting our "franchise" QB, on top of that the coaching staff not infatuated with the QB class, I could see this team taking another year to collect their weapons and next year going all in for Barkely.

and no, if the Rams don't think he's franchise material why would we want him? clearly he was a high draft pick that they couldn't get to work out. So why do we want to waist our time with him. Unless you want to go through another Grossman or Beck situation.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;884358]The point is vick is not a traditional passer and has rare talents but can never make the throw needed to be clutch. Rg3 is very similar to that and it's why I'd be worried ntm running qb s don't last long[/quote]

There are more "traditional" passers who haven't proven to be clutch than "non-traditional" ones.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;884364]He does? He's a pocket passer with the ability to scramble and has Michael Vick type speed. Cam Newton runs a lot, Early Michael Vick runs a lot. RGIII doesn't play like either one of them really. Since when is being able to evade pressure a knock.[/quote]

While I think RGIII is leap years above Cam and Vick in terms of where they were as a prospect, he does still run a bit. He averaged 13 attempts per game but only had a paltry 3.9 average. However, he put up over 4,200 yard passing in 13 games as well. That's incredible. Were they allowed to continue playing during halftime or something?...lol


I love the kid though. He's smart (best part I like), he's charismatic, he's athletic, he's accurate, he's got arm strength.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/761st_Tank_Battalion_(United_States)"]Why RG3 will succeed in the NFL and the real reason some think he won't...[/URL]

It's the Patton principle.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Lets look at a different view, what if both QB RG3 and peyton fails, this will be the consequence. in RG3 we will loose future draft picks. in peyton, we will only loose dan's money, and will keep both our picks this year (probably a stud OL or WR) and next year (another QB prospect in Barkley)

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=diehard;884417][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/761st_Tank_Battalion_(United_States)"]Why RG3 will succeed in the NFL and the real reason some think he won't...[/URL][/quote]

You playing the race card bro?


[IMG]http://www.frigginrandom.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/race-card-535x433.jpg[/IMG]