[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;904777]Trust me, I am conscience of that. I have only done this in broad daylight when I know other neighbors are around. I purposely speak very loud, keep my distance, make it clear I am unarmed and am as polite as I can be. I also don't follow guys (yes, it's always guys doing this) wearing clothing that could easily conceal a gun. If someone reaches for something, I am jumping behind the nearest parked car.

At the same time, it's my neighborhood. I will not simply go into hiding and hope others will protect us - that's not the man I am nor the man I want my son to grow into.[/QUOTE]

I agree no doubt, I'm was actually just kidding lol but seriously yeah anything can happen to anyone at anytime. It's a sad case unfortunately someone died and we will probably never know the truth behind it all

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

Okay... What's the catch here?

[url=http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897#.T3O5TTEgeok]Trayvon Martin Case: Exclusive Surveillance Video of George Zimmerman - ABC News[/url]

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[url=http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897]Trayvon Martin Case: Exclusive Surveillance Video of George Zimmerman - ABC News[/url]

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

beat me rave and it seems pretty odd that he has nothing wrong w him

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;904883]beat me rave and it seems pretty odd that he has nothing wrong w him[/quote]

He seems pretty... Not disheveled... Well, for a guy that allegedly just got beat down by a 17 year old.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;904884]He seems pretty... Not disheveled... Well, for a guy that allegedly just got beat down by a 17 year old.[/quote]

sorry but this dudes story isn't really believable IMO, and he looks like he's in pretty damn good shape to me.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;904885]sorry but this dudes story isn't really believable IMO, and he looks like he's in pretty damn good shape to me.[/quote]

5 years since the mug shot that's been circulating. Look's like the dude's been hitting the gym.

I'm not going to say Zimmerman over powered Martin, but I bet considering Zimmerman isn't the pudgy, out of shape dude in the circulating picture, and Martin was already in shape, I can only imagine it had to have been a hell of a fight. (If that actually happened)

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

I think Zimmerman is either innocent and it was self defense or one hell of a sociopath and a liar (since those already go hand in hand) and has a good portion of America fooled.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;904893]5 years since the mug shot that's been circulating. Look's like the dude's been hitting the gym.

I'm not going to say Zimmerman over powered Martin, but I bet considering Zimmerman isn't the pudgy, out of shape dude in the circulating picture, and Martin was already in shape, I can only imagine it had to have been a hell of a fight. (If that actually happened)[/quote]


So where were all the people that live in this neighborhood while this so called Fight was going down? Where I grew up fights were a common thing and I can tell u now that people were always outside while it was going down.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;904894]I think Zimmerman is either innocent and it was self defense or one hell of a sociopath and a liar (since those already go hand in hand) and has a good portion of America fooled.[/quote]

Fair assessment in my opinion. And yeah, that video shows a pretty "not beaten" guy to me. His lawyer said his nose was broken, but it doesn't look like it to me. No bruising or swelling that would be associated with that kind of injury.

At the same time, one eye witness - the only one seeing any part of the altercation - says Martin was beating Zimmerman's head into the ground. Conflicting evidence all around. <blech>

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;904882][url=http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897]Trayvon Martin Case: Exclusive Surveillance Video of George Zimmerman - ABC News[/url][/quote]

Its tough to make out the face even though it doesnt look hurt, but because of a pretty recent hair cut the back of the head is pretty clear, no injury what so ever.

You would expect to see some type of first aid administered to the head from the description of his supposed wounds.

Im just not buying what this guy is selling, think he's lying and this supposed attack wasnt much of anything but trying to CYA tall tale after-the-fact

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

Been thinking over the Florida immunity law (the one saying, if you assert self-defense, you can't be arrested without proof that the "self-defense" defense is inapplicable) and why I find it morally bothersome. It appears to change the claim of "self-defense" from an affirmative defense to a presumptive defense and, in doing so, lessens the value of life.

As an [I]affirmative[/I] defense, "self-defense" is something I have to prove in order to be innocent of murder. If I fail to prove my actions satisfied the elements of self-defense, my defense fails and I may be liable for first or second degree murder. As such, I better be damn sure of myself before resorting to deadly force in self-defense. Simply put, as an affirmative defense, the philosophical underpinning of the "self-defense" claim is that, if you kill someone, the presumption is you are wrong to do so.

The presumption that it is wrong to kill someone is eliminated, however, when the claim of "self-defense" is converted into a presumptive defense as it appears to be in Florida. As a [I]presumptive[/I] defense, I don't need to prove I acted in self-defense, I just need to assert that I was doing so. Once asserted, it becomes the State's burden to find enough evidence to prove I that I was [I]not[/I] acting in self-defense. As such, when (like here) the evidence is just too conflicting to say one way or another with any reasonable degree of certainty, the State will almost always fail to overcome the presumption. As a result, [I]the possibility[/I] that a person wrongly lost their life will never even make it to a jury.

Essentially, as a [I]presumptive[/I] defense, the philosophical underpinning of the "self-defense" claim is that killing someone is not [I]assumed[/I] to be wrong. Rather, Floridians have said that the right to defend your person is primary [I]even if[/I] sometimes innocent people get killed. I am pretty sure I have a problem with that.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

Quick primer on the degrees of murder - First degree murder is traditional murder - felony murder & pre-meditated murder. Second degree murder is simply Murder 1 with an imperfect defense (such as asserting self defense with deadly force when you had no right to use it) or, alternatively, death caused by [I]gross[/I] negligence and reckless disregard for others (think firing a gun into a crowded room - you may not have intended to kill anyone, but you damn well should have known you were likely to do so). Manslaughter is simply the negligent/accidental killing of another.

Generally, the distingushing feature between second degree murder and manslaughter is that, in Murder 2, you admit to the intentional killing of another but wrongly assert you had the right to do so. In manslaughter, however, you deny that you intended to kill the person and assert it was an accident. In this case, Zimmerman has said "I killed him in self-defense." Meaning that he [I]intended[/I] to kill Martin and that the death was not accidental. As a result, it would appear to me that the State is stuck with 2nd degree murder or nothing.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=Chico23231;904926]Its tough to make out the face even though it doesnt look hurt, but because of a pretty recent hair cut the back of the head is pretty clear, no injury what so ever.

You would expect to see some type of first aid administered to the head from the description of his supposed wounds.

Im just not buying what this guy is selling, think he's lying and this supposed attack wasnt much of anything but trying to CYA tall tale after-the-fact[/quote]

Is the homeowner who witnessed Martin beating Zimmerman also lying?

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;904944]Is the homeowner who witnessed Martin beating Zimmerman also lying?[/quote]

Could've mixed the 2 up? How far was the homeowner from the incident? Was it practically on their doorstep or were they like 5 or 6 houses down? Could make a significant difference and mistaken identity. Around 7pm and raining, so it was probably somewhat dark.

Possibly? I'm sure odder witness mistakes have happened...

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

As I understand it, the fight was on his front yard and he was very clear that guy A was on top of and beating guy B. He looked away/went for phone, heard a gunshot and then saw "the guy who had been on top" lying on the ground.

[quote]A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.

"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.

"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point." [/quote]
[url=http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1qTTeApQJ]Trayvon Martin shot and killed in neighborhood altercation[/url]

[quote]The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.[/quote]

[url=http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012]Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman[/url]

Sounds like he was pretty sure of what he saw and was close enough to speak to the two while they were fighting.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;904944]Is the homeowner who witnessed Martin beating Zimmerman also lying?[/quote]

In your line of work, whats more important physical evidence vs. witness statement? I think the physical evidence. Lets be honest, that video evidence directly after the fight shows no signs of a fight. No bruising or blood to the face, back of the head, no ripped clothing, doesnt look physically exhasted, etc. A broken nose or gash to the back of the head should be noticable.

Im calling bullsh*t on Zimmy. Going to ground and rolling around is alot different from some a child on top of a grown medium to large man physically beating him. Alot different.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

I'll have to say I keep going back and forth on this as new stuff comes out. The past few days it seemed Zim acted in self defense and now after seeing the video I question that. I do wonder about the witness and what they said they saw. I know in my business the out side witness hold more ground then the the people involved.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=firstdown;905027]I'll have to say I keep going back and forth on this as new stuff comes out. The past few days it seemed Zim acted in self defense and now after seeing the video I question that. I do wonder about the witness and what they said they saw. I know in my business the out side witness hold more ground then the the people involved.[/quote]

Yeah I agree. I was against Zimmerman at first, then I thought Zimmerman had a good case, and now there's video that could possibly prove Zimmerman was lying. I haven't seen the video but if it's true and he didn't suffer any injuries than I don't know what to believe. I'm just going to wait until all the facts come out.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=Chico23231;905026]In your line of work, whats more important [B]physical evidence vs. witness statement[/B]? I think the physical evidence. Lets be honest, that video evidence directly after the fight shows no signs of a fight. No bruising or blood to the face, back of the head, no ripped clothing, doesnt look physically exhasted, etc. A broken nose or gash to the back of the head should be noticable.

Im calling bullsh*t on Zimmy. Going to ground and rolling around is alot different from some a child on top of a grown medium to large man physically beating him. Alot different.[/quote]

Depends on a lot of factors. How reliable is the physical evidence, how reliable is the witness statement. I have more than once seen juries side with the eyewitness account of something rather than video evidence.

It's clear you have made up your mind in this matter and, barring incontrovertable evidence that Martin was laying in wait and attacking Zimmerman from behind, you won't even consider the possibility that Martin may have been the aggressor or the person who escalated the confrontation into a physical altercation. I get it - Martin is a "child", Zimmerman is a coward with a gun so he MUST be guilty of murder. Couldn't happen any other way.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=mooby;905039]Yeah I agree. I was against Zimmerman at first, then I thought Zimmerman had a good case, and now there's video that could possibly prove Zimmerman was lying. I haven't seen the video but if it's true and he didn't suffer any injuries than I don't know what to believe. I'm just going to wait until all the facts come out.[/quote]

I looked at the video and you have a pretty good shot of his head with short, short crew cut (really like a 5:00 shadow on his head) and I couldn't see any lacerations or bandages. Zimmerman's lawyer says there was a broken nose. If so, let's some hospital records, same for the lacerations. I think he was admitted to the hospital at some point (I don't remember). If so, their records would reflect any treatment.

The more I think about it, the less I like the Florida law. We can sit here and parse the evidence and second guess it's meaning & weight. Many, like Chico, will reach conclusions as to guilt or innocence based on conjecture and/or speculation. Under the Florida law, however, it is likely that no jury will ever have all the evidence laid before them, see the various doucments, hear the recordings, see videos, and hear the various witnesses testify under oath subject to cross-examination so that they can weigh the credibility of them.

A person was killed and the law is not holding anyone - not the Zimmerman or Martin - accountable for the events of that evening. To me, just as is Martin's death, that's a real tragedy.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;905044]Depends on a lot of factors. How reliable is the physical evidence, how reliable is the witness statement. I have more than once seen juries side with the eyewitness account of something rather than video evidence.

It's clear you have made up your mind in this matter and, barring incontrovertable evidence that Martin was laying in wait and attacking Zimmerman from behind, you won't even consider the possibility that Martin may have been the aggressor or the person who escalated the confrontation into a physical altercation. I get it - Martin is a "child", Zimmerman is a coward with a gun so he MUST be guilty of murder. Couldn't happen any other way.[/quote]

Joe, Im just forming my opinion like everyone else. I think Zimmerman could have easily avoided killing Martin, I think he had several opportunities to do so. Im not buying his life was in danger.

Clearly if Zimmerman displayed physical injuries of being beat, I would be less inclined to say he was lying. Im keeping an open mind and appreciate your perspective.

I worked in a Court Service Unit, mom works directly for a CA and have a good friend who is a prosecutor up in Fairfax Va so always been interest in crime. Plus ive had some run ins when i was younger

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=Chico23231;905061]Joe, [B]Im just forming my opinion like everyone else. I think Zimmerman could have easily avoided killing Martin, I think he had several opportunities to do so. Im not buying his life was in danger.[/B]
Clearly if Zimmerman displayed physical injuries of being beat, I would be less inclined to say he was lying. Im keeping an open mind and appreciate your perspective.

I worked in a Court Service Unit, mom works directly for a CA and have a good friend who is a prosecutor up in Fairfax Va so always been interest in crime. Plus ive had some run ins when i was younger[/quote]

Fair enough. Under the law in Florida, however, "not buying it" is not enough to convict him of anything. The evidence has to prove he is lying about self-defense.

To me, right now, it's still could be either way. Having been a young, male teenager myself and having some run-ins with them in my neighborhood, I have no doubt that what Zimmerman says happened could have, in fact, happened. The operative word being "could". [EDIT: By saying this, I am in no way trying to imply Martin was a gang-banger thug. He have been a good kid in bad mood, a little hot-tempered that day, w/e, and just got rubbed the wrong way. There was a time in my youth when a cross look got a challenge from me and I was always ready to throw down - and did more than once].

To be clear, I think Zimmerman exercised bad judgment in a lot of ways that night and, with better judgment, could have avoided the whole situation. I don't think, however, bad judgment necessarily makes you a bad person - which, to me, it seems you have concluded about Zimmerman. Further, one person's bad judgment doesn't excuse the bad judgment of others which, if he attacked first, Martin may have exercised.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=Chico23231;905061]Joe, Im just forming my opinion like everyone else. I think Zimmerman could have easily avoided killing Martin, I think he had several opportunities to do so. Im not buying his life was in danger.

Clearly if Zimmerman displayed physical injuries of being beat, I would be less inclined to say he was lying. Im keeping an open mind and appreciate your perspective.

I worked in a Court Service Unit, mom works directly for a CA and have a good friend who is a prosecutor up in Fairfax Va so always been interest in crime. Plus ive had some run ins when i was younger[/quote]

Younger your only 35. I hope that's not considered old.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;905056]I looked at the video and you have a pretty good shot of his head with short, short crew cut (really like a 5:00 shadow on his head) and I couldn't see any lacerations or bandages. Zimmerman's lawyer says there was a broken nose. If so, let's some hospital records, same for the lacerations. I think he was admitted to the hospital at some point (I don't remember). If so, their records would reflect any treatment.

The more I think about it, the less I like the Florida law. We can sit here and parse the evidence and second guess it's meaning & weight. Many, like Chico, will reach conclusions as to guilt or innocence based on conjecture and/or speculation. Under the Florida law, however, it is likely that no jury will ever have all the evidence laid before them, see the various doucments, hear the recordings, see videos, and hear the various witnesses testify under oath subject to cross-examination so that they can weigh the credibility of them.

A person was killed and the law is not holding anyone - not the Zimmerman or Martin - accountable for the events of that evening. To me, just as is Martin's death, that's a real tragedy.[/quote]

In my opinion the only positive that can come from this tragedy would be severe modifications to the stand your ground law. As I have said before my opinion based on a confrontation between a unarmed teen and an armed adult resulting in the unarmed teen dying should be murder. And when I say that, that is coming from someone with a lot of training with firearms and a respect for the lethal potential of a loaded gun. But based on the "facts" so far it seems like Zimmerman broke no law in the state of Florida. Hopefully that law will change, and I wish the media would focus on that rather than sensationalizing each of the persons involved. Right now it seems like everyone would rather quiver over who is right or wrong in this case rather than trying to prevent something like this from ever happening again.

Just out of curiosity what kind of law do you practice?

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

Condemnation, tort and administrative (both regulatory and quasi-prosecutorial).

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=mlmdub130;905083]In my opinion the only positive that can come from this tragedy would be severe modifications to the stand your ground law.[B] As I have said before my opinion based on a confrontation between a unarmed teen and an armed adult resulting in the unarmed teen dying should be murder.[/B] And when I say that, that is coming from someone with a lot of training with firearms and a respect for the lethal potential of a loaded gun. But based on the "facts" so far it seems like Zimmerman broke no law in the state of Florida. Hopefully that law will change, and I wish the media would focus on that rather than sensationalizing each of the persons involved. Right now it seems like everyone would rather quiver over who is right or wrong in this case rather than trying to prevent something like this from ever happening again. [/quote]

I am fine with the law as it is in every other state (unless, they have a law like Florida's). If you are in reasonable fear of your life (or the life of wife/child, etc.), and can prove that your fear was reasonable, it doesn't matter who the attacker was - you have the right to defend with whatever force is necessary including deadly force. You just damn well better be able to prove that a real life threatening situation existed.

IMHO, the neighborhood watch should have some rules about carrying weapons - as in, don't! Again, it was a situation that could most likely been easily avoided with common sense at any number of levels.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;905102]IMHO, the neighborhood watch should have some rules about carrying weapons - as in, don't! Again, it was a situation that could most likely been easily avoided with common sense at any number of levels.[/quote]

I'd be very surprised if the CC & R's of the Homeowners association don't already state something like that but the FL law contradicts it.

I'd love to be on the jury for this case as long as Chico and Saden1 are out at [I]voir dire[/I].

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=RedskinRat;905109]I'd be very surprised if the CC & R's of the Homeowners association don't already state something like that but the FL law contradicts it.

I'd love to be on the jury for this case as long as Chico and Saden1 are out at [I]voir dire[/I].[/quote]

Its jaw dropping how irresponsible it is to be roaming a neighborhood with a gun question people. Thats why it seems to me this type of person is looking for trouble or if he generally afraid of his neighborhood he has to carry a gun he needs to stay on the sideline. I wonder did his neighbors knew he was carrying a side arm?

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=Chico23231;905120]Its jaw dropping how irresponsible it is to be roaming a neighborhood with a gun question people.[/quote]

And what if he was a martial arts expert?

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=RedskinRat;905124]And what if he was a martial arts expert?[/quote]

well Martin would probably be still alive and Zimmy probably locked up for assault on a minor. Crazy right?

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=Chico23231;905131]well Martin would probably be still alive and Zimmy probably locked up for assault on a minor. Crazy right?[/quote]

I meant that people with enough skill and lacking in control can still kill.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;905102]I am fine with the law as it is in every other state (unless, they have a law like Florida's). If you are in reasonable fear of your life (or the life of wife/child, etc.), and can prove that your fear was reasonable, it doesn't matter who the attacker was - you have the right to defend with whatever force is necessary including deadly force. You just damn well better be able to prove that a real life threatening situation existed.

IMHO, the neighborhood watch should have some rules about carrying weapons - as in, don't! Again, it was a situation that could most likely been easily avoided with common sense at any number of levels.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure that I heard there are handful of states that have a law similar to Florida's.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;905102]I am fine with the law as it is in every other state (unless, they have a law like Florida's). If you are in reasonable fear of your life (or the life of wife/child, etc.), and can prove that your fear was reasonable, it doesn't matter who the attacker was - you have the right to defend with whatever force is necessary including deadly force. You just damn well better be able to prove that a real life threatening situation existed.

IMHO, the neighborhood watch should have some rules about carrying weapons - as in, don't! Again, it was a situation that could most likely been easily avoided with common sense at any number of levels.[/quote]


I have a really really hard time justifying self-defense on the part of Zimmerman when he trailed him despite being told to stop following him. I have a hard time believing there exists a neighborhood watchman that doesn't know the streets in his own neighborhood. I have an even harder time believing getting out of your car to look at a street sign. Most of all I have a really hard time believing the down right disregard for what self-defense means in this country by so many.

It is irrelevant whether Trayvon was on top beating him or below getting beat up, or who was screaming for help. What is truly relevant is that you can apparently follow someone and shoot them and then claim self-defense.

It's very difficult to not wish you all or your children to suffer the same fate as Trayvon and experience Zimmermanian self-defense first hand.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=saden1;905298]It's very difficult to not wish you all or your children to suffer the same fate as Trayvon and experience Zimmermanian self-defense first hand.[/quote]

I don't have any kids, but I welcome anyone to try to inflict harm on me.

You're obviously still too emotionally unstable to post anything of value. Why not just read and wait until you've calmed down?

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=saden1;905298]I have a really really hard time justifying self-defense on the part of Zimmerman when he trailed him despite being told to stop following him. [B]I have a hard time believing there exists a neighborhood watchman that doesn't know the streets in his own neighborhood. I have an even harder time believing getting out of your car to look at a street sign. [/B]Most of all I have a really hard time believing the down right disregard for what self-defense means in this country by so many.

It is irrelevant whether Trayvon was on top beating him or below getting beat up, or who was screaming for help. What is truly relevant is that you can apparently follow someone and shoot them and then claim self-defense.

It's very difficult to not wish you all or your children to suffer the same fate as Trayvon and experience Zimmermanian self-defense first hand.[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Those are definitely very good points. The fact that Zimmerman's face didnt look red or anything either makes me question how just how assaulted he was. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]But i havent seen/heard anything that makes me think Zimmerman kept following Martin after it was suggested to stop. Once the dispatcher told him to stop it looks like he stopped.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I think for me its did Zimmerman retreat, and if so did Martin then go towards Zimmerman and pick a fight? If so i think Zimmerman was justified to shoot Martin if during the fight he became reasonably fearful of being killed. If someone smashed my head into the pavement or reached for my gun i would be fearful of my life. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]While i dont approve of the conditions that Zimmerman used to "stalk" Martin, i really just dont think that of everything we know of what Zimmerman did, Martin never had the right to assult him or should have felt reasonable provoked to assault him (espicially if Zimmerman did indeed turn around or retreated).[/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=saden1;905298]It's very difficult to not wish you all or your children to suffer the same fate as Trayvon and experience Zimmermanian self-defense first hand.[/quote]

I don't need to suffer it to understand the tragedy and, if it is difficult for you to accept that people can know that and still try to live under the rule of law without wishing tragedy upon them, I simply don't have a retort for that kind of evil desire. Regardless of anyone's opinion in this matter, I hope they are never visited by such tragedy.

You have a hard time believing his story. You are not alone. You think wrong was done. Again, you are not alone.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;905323]I don't need to suffer it to understand the tragedy and, if it is difficult for you to accept that people can know that and still try to live under the rule of law without wishing tragedy upon them, I simply don't have a retort for that kind of evil desire. Regardless of anyone's opinion in this matter, I hope they are never visited by such tragedy.

You have a hard time believing his story. You are not alone. You think wrong was done. Again, you are not alone.[/quote]

I don't have hard time believing Zimmerman, I have a hard time believing a murderous assailant that perpetuated the confrontation can reasonably claim self-defense in this country. Such claim is beyond preposterous and indefensible from any angle. It's murder and if anyone has grounds to justify their actions based on Florida's Stand Your Ground law it's Trayvon.

I mean, this Zimmerman character once called police to report "a suspicious black male, 7-9 years old, skinny build." That's not normal and here we are assuming that he's normal, justified, and acted in self-defense when in fact the only person that can reasonably claim self-defense is Trayvon.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;904073]Okay, so why is it inflammatory if a white person shoots a black teenager under suspicious circumstances but [I]not[/I] inflammatory if a Hispanic individual shoots a black teenager under suspicious circumstances? Explain to me why this is not base hypocracy or demagougery.

It's between two minorities? So minorities can shoot each other and society won't bring out the pitchforks, only white folks have to answer to the mob? This doesn't strike you as wrong? A young man is dead - If unjustified, shouldn't outrage flow regardless of who shot him or the colors involved?[/quote]
Unfortunately yes . No different than a "pretty " white girl is missing or feared dead , the media goes crazy and it is a national story . However it seems like we never hear about Black or latino girls missing . If Zimmerman were black , we would have never heard about it . Here is a violent crime where some black teens set a white kid on fire , how many people have heard this story ? [url=http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-04/news/31122324_1_white-boy-fire-tv-station]Teens set kid on fire for being 'white boy' - New York Daily News[/url]

It is somewhat true black on black crime never gets reported and imo if Martin was white Zimmerman would have not followed him and started shit.. it's a sad world sometimes and racism is never going to go away .