Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=The Goat;942215]So far as he's not going to outrun DBs and quicker LBs yeah you could say so but it's hard to assess when he's dropping too many opportunities. I don't think we've seen the offense create mismatches for Davis to exploit though much either.

He's a big body though and can break tackles and rumble for YAC, so speed is a lesser concern with Davis. That's kind of the dynamic of downfield targets as I see it. A burner creates opportunity by beating defenders while your big targets create opportunies by hauling in jump balls and rumbling for YAC, even with contact. I wish we had a WR who stood out in either capacity. Garcon is the closest to that, but still just a poor man's Boldin at best, which is why he's never touched Boldin's numbers despite having arguably the best QB of all time throwing to him.[/quote]

Is there a player fast enough for you Goat?

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

Joshua Morgan has 6 receptions along with Moss and Robinson. the most on our team.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=Chico23231;942234]Is there a player fast enough for you Goat?[/quote]

How is speed even a real issue at all?

Ya know, if we had won, nobody would be questioning anyone's athleticism.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

The whole team just needs to realize we are not good enough yet to get away with stupid bonehead plays.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[I]Hey I run a 4.4 maybe I have the speed the Redskins are looking for.[/I]

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

You know whose probably the happiest though that Josh Morgan got a penalty on us?


Billy Cundiff.

Why?
Because he would have kicked a 47 yarder and if he had missed it, it would have been all the skins fans blaming him for the loss, and saying "Why did we sign a guy who has already missed a potential super bowl kick before?!?"

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;942262]You know whose probably the happiest though that Josh Morgan got a penalty on us?


Billy Cundiff.

Why?
Because he would have kicked a 47 yarder and if he had missed it, it would have been all the skins fans blaming him for the loss, and saying "Why did we sign a guy who has already missed a potential super bowl kick before?!?"[/quote]

I would agree but coach shanny already said we would have went for it on 4th and 1

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=Bubba305-ST21-;942264]I would agree but coach shanny already said we would have went for it on 4th and 1[/quote]

And Billy Cundiff nor any Redskins is happy about this loss.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=Bubba305-ST21-;942264]I would agree but coach shanny already said we would have went for it on 4th and 1[/quote]

Oh I didn't hear that Shanahan say he would do that.


And yes Ruh, obviously the whole team is mad with the L, but I'm sure that thought may have crossed Billys mind.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=Chico23231;942234]Is there a player fast enough for you Goat?[/quote]

Again, speed isn't real important when you're talking about the big, dominant pass-catchers who rip the pigskin out of the air and rumble on for yardage. Think Megatron, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitz for WRs, though all have wheels too and especially the younger guys. Graham, Gronk and Hernandez for TEs.

And you have guys with extraordinary ability to create space and make plays. Rice is the paradigm. Roddy White and Julio Jones are there. A younger Steve Smith (Carolina) definitely fits that mold. Tana was in his younger days too, and while he still is our best WR at getting open he doesn't get the YAC anymore.

What's frustrating to me about our WR corp is we don't have that guy who is dominant on either end of the spectrum so to speak. No real burner, and no big target. It's a disappointment in the regime really. The great organizations find these guys, and quite honestly do so pretty often. Think the Patriots, Steelers, Saints and now the Falcons (2012 NFC Champ?). I know there's still a lot of hype and hope for Garcon but he's a poor man's Boldin at best. Garcon never broke 1000 with arguably the greatest QB in history throwing to him. Boldin went for 1300+ yards in his first or second season.

You can go down the list of guys but the bottom line is we still don't have that big time down-field threat, and at least a few have been available to draft or sign, but we seem to prioritize roster positions at less than ideal times.

On the other hand, the Giants have won two SBs now with very good WRs who don't quite fit the bill as really dominant WRs. But...NY does have a sick (dominant) defensive front seven, along with an elite QB (hate admitting that btw).

I just look at the current regime and don't see winners (present and future tenses), and I think it's more evident now than ever. I agree with Tripp that the defense is likely to be closer to the bottom of the league again this year. Basically, the regime gave us RGIII. He's amazing. The best we've had in decades. But you need more than a superstar QB to be a real contender (otherwise P Manning would have multiple rings, right?), and outside QB I really, honestly, don't think Mike and co have made this team any better than the one they inherited. Younger? Sure. Better? Hmmm c'mon now. The defense is...different...but certainly not better and statistically it's worse. The offense would be pitiful w/o RGIII.

In a sentence, I think RGIII's talent and time are probably wasted under Shanahan and co. Already looking ahead to the next regime and hoping it builds a real contender. Danny boy matured as an owner over the last few years. Here's to continued maturity and the next great GM/coach on the horizon.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;942262]You know whose probably the happiest though that Josh Morgan got a penalty on us?


Billy Cundiff.

Why?
Because he would have kicked a 47 yarder and if he had missed it, it would have been all the skins fans blaming him for the loss, and saying "Why did we sign a guy who has already missed a potential super bowl kick before?!?"[/quote]

There wouldn't have been a field goal though. Had Morgan turned inside and headed upfield the 1st down was right there. I think Morgan realized it too after he drifted backwards losing yardage and that was his real frustration, rather than whats his face.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=The Goat;942268]There wouldn't have been a field goal though. Had Morgan turned inside and headed upfield the 1st down was right there. I think Morgan realized it too after he drifted backwards losing yardage and that was his real frustration, rather than whats his face.[/quote]

:doh:


I'm just saying keep the play the same just don't throw the ball at Finnegan, not the "Oh don't throw to Josh Morgan" or "If he had turned up field then it wouldve been a first", btw he went that way because he wanted to get out of bounds, if he turns up field he gets tackled in bounds and clock keeps ticking

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;942270]:doh:


I'm just saying keep the play the same just don't throw the ball at Finnegan, not the "Oh don't throw to Josh Morgan" or "If he had turned up field then it wouldve been a first", btw he went that way because he wanted to get out of bounds, if he turns up field he gets tackled in bounds and clock keeps ticking[/quote]

There was over a minute on the clock and he was less than three yards from the first down, after which RGIII would spike it or call a play they had ready. Stopping the clock is meaningless if you don't get the first down. And...there was absolutely no way he was getting to the sideline. 0% chance. Almost a certainty he would have made the 1st down though.

It's funny that sportswriters near and far have pointed this out but the board is almost totally focused on getting out of bounds, or the kick, or whatever else lol.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=The Goat;942267]Again, speed isn't real important when you're talking about the big, dominant pass-catchers who rip the pigskin out of the air and rumble on for yardage. Think Megatron, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitz for WRs, though all have wheels too and especially the younger guys. Graham, Gronk and Hernandez for TEs.

And you have guys with extraordinary ability to create space and make plays. Rice is the paradigm. Roddy White and Julio Jones are there. A younger Steve Smith (Carolina) definitely fits that mold. Tana was in his younger days too, and while he still is our best WR at getting open he doesn't get the YAC anymore.

What's frustrating to me about our WR corp is we don't have that guy who is dominant on either end of the spectrum so to speak. No real burner, and no big target. It's a disappointment in the regime really. The great organizations find these guys, and quite honestly do so pretty often. Think the Patriots, Steelers, Saints and now the Falcons (2012 NFC Champ?). I know there's still a lot of hype and hope for Garcon but he's a poor man's Boldin at best. Garcon never broke 1000 with arguably the greatest QB in history throwing to him. Boldin went for 1300+ yards in his first or second season.

You can go down the list of guys but the bottom line is we still don't have that big time down-field threat, and at least a few have been available to draft or sign, but we seem to prioritize roster positions at less than ideal times.

On the other hand, the Giants have won two SBs now with very good WRs who don't quite fit the bill as really dominant WRs. But...NY does have a sick (dominant) defensive front seven, along with an elite QB (hate admitting that btw).

I just look at the current regime and don't see winners (present and future tenses), and I think it's more evident now than ever. I agree with Tripp that the defense is likely to be closer to the bottom of the league again this year. Basically, the regime gave us RGIII. He's amazing. The best we've had in decades. But you need more than a superstar QB to be a real contender (otherwise P Manning would have multiple rings, right?), and outside QB I really, honestly, don't think Mike and co have made this team any better than the one they inherited. Younger? Sure. Better? Hmmm c'mon now. The defense is...different...but certainly not better and statistically it's worse. The offense would be pitiful w/o RGIII.

In a sentence, I think RGIII's talent and time are probably wasted under Shanahan and co. Already looking ahead to the next regime and hoping it builds a real contender. Danny boy matured as an owner over the last few years. Here's to continued maturity and the next great GM/coach on the horizon.[/quote]


So we are going to ignore the fact that Garcon had Wayne, Harrison, and Clark to share passes with, and to say that Garcon is a poor man's Boldin is a terrible comparison because they play nothing alike, Garcon does not have Boldin's strength, and as much as you do not want to aknowledge it, Garcon is a burner and has speed that Boldin does not.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

I say we just draft WR's every round till we find someone that is "megatron" worthy or someone that GOAT approves of.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=Chico23231;942234]Is there a player fast enough for you Goat?[/quote]

Usain Bolt.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=The Goat;942267]Again, speed isn't real important when you're talking about the big, dominant pass-catchers who rip the pigskin out of the air and rumble on for yardage. Think Megatron, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitz for WRs, though all have wheels too and especially the younger guys. Graham, Gronk and Hernandez for TEs.

And you have guys with extraordinary ability to create space and make plays. Rice is the paradigm. Roddy White and Julio Jones are there. A younger Steve Smith (Carolina) definitely fits that mold. Tana was in his younger days too, and while he still is our best WR at getting open he doesn't get the YAC anymore.

What's frustrating to me about our WR corp is we don't have that guy who is dominant on either end of the spectrum so to speak. No real burner, and no big target. It's a disappointment in the regime really. The great organizations find these guys, and quite honestly do so pretty often. Think the Patriots, Steelers, Saints and now the Falcons (2012 NFC Champ?). I know there's still a lot of hype and hope for Garcon but he's a poor man's Boldin at best. Garcon never broke 1000 with arguably the greatest QB in history throwing to him. Boldin went for 1300+ yards in his first or second season.

You can go down the list of guys but the bottom line is we still don't have that big time down-field threat, and at least a few have been available to draft or sign, but we seem to prioritize roster positions at less than ideal times.

On the other hand, the Giants have won two SBs now with very good WRs who don't quite fit the bill as really dominant WRs. But...NY does have a sick (dominant) defensive front seven, along with an elite QB (hate admitting that btw).

I just look at the current regime and don't see winners (present and future tenses), and I think it's more evident now than ever. I agree with Tripp that the defense is likely to be closer to the bottom of the league again this year. Basically, the regime gave us RGIII. He's amazing. The best we've had in decades. But you need more than a superstar QB to be a real contender (otherwise P Manning would have multiple rings, right?), and outside QB I really, honestly, don't think Mike and co have made this team any better than the one they inherited. Younger? Sure. Better? Hmmm c'mon now. The defense is...different...but certainly not better and statistically it's worse. The offense would be pitiful w/o RGIII.

In a sentence, I think RGIII's talent and time are probably wasted under Shanahan and co. Already looking ahead to the next regime and hoping it builds a real contender. Danny boy matured as an owner over the last few years. Here's to continued maturity and the next great GM/coach on the horizon.[/quote]

Goat are you serious? Are you writing off the team already? Lotta things change throughout the season. To criticize the building of the team is premature. I agree there has been wrong, bad decisions by the Shanny regime, but no organization is perfect, havent seen one yet. The "plugging" of holes in the certain areas of the team should last longer than the past.

In regards to the WRs, you gotta give guys more than 2 games together before you draw conclusions. Garcon, Morgan and Hankerson in 2 games have already adequately produced and if your not seeing the development of Robinson your quite frankly havent been paying attention. Moss is the savy veteran of the crew. I think that crew of receivers are a nice combo of size, catching ability and speed. You know its really hard to find Jerry Rice and Randy Moss, let alone Steve Smiths, Hakeem Nicks, and Roddy Whites.

[QUOTE=CultBrennan59;942262]You know whose probably the happiest though that Josh Morgan got a penalty on us?


Billy Cundiff.

Why?
Because he would have kicked a 47 yarder and if he had missed it, it would have been all the skins fans blaming him for the loss, and saying "Why did we sign a guy who has already missed a potential super bowl kick before?!?"[/QUOTE]

Cundiff did hit A 46 yarder last week. With a min on the clock tho and rg3 we would have gone for it. Also goat is rite. Morgan made two mistakes on that play. The dumb penalty and not turning upfield for the first after the catch! Total lack of understanding the situation on every level.

And can we stop any talk of wide receivers or offense at all. We havent had one quiet snap and we are tearing it up on o. I dont care who is scoring or how fast they are? Lol. They are scoring!

Im going to the home opener and cannot wait to see what griffin and the offense can do when they can hear!

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;942266]Oh I didn't hear that Shanahan say he would do that.


And yes Ruh, obviously the whole team is mad with the L, but I'm sure that thought may have crossed Billys mind.[/quote]

Shanahan did say that. However, he went conservative after the penalty as if Grossman was still quarterbacking. In that case, sure, go for an unlikely-to-be-made FG.

[QUOTE=RGIII;942359]Shanahan did say that. However, he went conservative after the penalty as if Grossman was still quarterbacking. In that case, sure, go for an unlikely-to-be-made FG.[/QUOTE]

Big diff between 4 and 1 and 4 and 16. Lol. That bein said there is a chance at firstdown not a 62 yarder. More like he went conservative as of sebastian janikowski was our kicker.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;942274]So we are going to ignore the fact that Garcon had Wayne, Harrison, and Clark to share passes with, and to say that Garcon is a poor man's Boldin is a terrible comparison because they play nothing alike, Garcon does not have Boldin's strength, and as much as you do not want to aknowledge it, Garcon is a burner and has speed that Boldin does not.[/quote]

A younger Boldin was quicker, faster than Garcon. But I still wouldn't call either a pure burner at any point in their respective careers. Boldin is just a much more talented WR.

I think they're a pretty good physical comparison size wise, but you hit the nail on the head Garcon doesn't have the strength.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=The Goat;942392][B]A younger Boldin was quicker, faster than Garcon.[/B] But I still wouldn't call either a pure burner at any point in their respective careers. Boldin is just a much more talented WR.

I think they're a pretty good physical comparison size wise, but you hit the nail on the head Garcon doesn't have the strength.[/quote]

In what universe?

Boldin was SLOW at the combine (4.7), part of the reason he slipped into the 2nd round.

I have to agree with EQ, I don't see any real comparison between the two. They both have different skill sets.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=Chico23231;942280]Goat are you serious? Are you writing off the team already? Lotta things change throughout the season. To criticize the building of the team is premature. I agree there has been wrong, bad decisions by the Shanny regime, but no organization is perfect, havent seen one yet. The "plugging" of holes in the certain areas of the team should last longer than the past.

In regards to the WRs, you gotta give guys more than 2 games together before you draw conclusions. Garcon, Morgan and Hankerson in 2 games have already adequately produced and if your not seeing the development of Robinson your quite frankly havent been paying attention. Moss is the savy veteran of the crew. I think that crew of receivers are a nice combo of size, catching ability and speed. You know its really hard to find Jerry Rice and Randy Moss, let alone Steve Smiths, Hakeem Nicks, and Roddy Whites.[/quote]

I too think our WR corp is nice ;)

Admittedly I was very skeptical of Shanny and co from the beginning. Always thought Mike was the "luckiest" coach to ever win multiple rings. He had the best defense/defensive coordinator in Wade Phillips, a HOF QB he inherited. Mike undoubtedly gets credit for Terrel Davis and the run game. But overall, I don't see Mike ever being a contender again short of inheriting another SB caliber team. Maybe I'm wrong and that'd be nice.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=Mattyk;942394]In what universe?

Boldin was SLOW at the combine (4.7), part of the reason he slipped into the 2nd round.

I have to agree with EQ, I don't see any real comparison between the two. They both have different skill sets.[/quote]

It goes back to pitting vacuum statistics to live play IMHO. Put all the pads on and get bumped around and the stronger guy is going to be quicker/faster on the field.

I'm not saying Garcon is actually slow out there, but I don't see him beating defenders consistently with speed. And he doesn't have the size, strength to overpower defenders and snatch the pigskin out of the air with tight coverage. All I'm saying is right now I think Garcon has a pretty limited skill-set, that's all. Hopefully he becomes superb route-runner and gains that intangible talent for creating space consistently.

Who would you guys compare Garcon with, past or present?

[url=http://www.nfl.com/player/pierregarcon/2346/profile]Pierre Garcon, WR for the Washington Redskins at NFL.com[/url]

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8398834/washington-redskins-joshua-morgan-gets-death-threats-twitter]Washington Redskins' Joshua Morgan gets death threats on Twitter - ESPN[/url]

Stupid plays really attract the ultra-stupid on twitter apparently. just embarrassing

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=The Goat;942399]It goes back to pitting vacuum statistics to live play IMHO. Put all the pads on and get bumped around and the stronger guy is going to be quicker/faster on the field.

I'm not saying Garcon is actually slow out there, but I don't see him beating defenders consistently with speed. And he doesn't have the size, strength to overpower defenders and snatch the pigskin out of the air with tight coverage. All I'm saying is right now I think Garcon has a pretty limited skill-set, that's all. Hopefully he becomes superb route-runner and gains that intangible talent for creating space consistently.

Who would you guys compare Garcon with, past or present?

[url=http://www.nfl.com/player/pierregarcon/2346/profile]Pierre Garcon, WR for the Washington Redskins at NFL.com[/url][/quote]

Isaac Bruce for me. would be great if he comes close to his career numbers

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=Chico23231;942406][URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8398834/washington-redskins-joshua-morgan-gets-death-threats-twitter"]Washington Redskins' Joshua Morgan gets death threats on Twitter - ESPN[/URL]

Stupid plays really attract the ultra-stupid on twitter apparently. just embarrassing[/quote]

That is just terrible...c'mon people.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=Chico23231;942407]Isaac Bruce for me. would be great if he comes close to his career numbers[/quote]

Played with London in STL and won a ring.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=Chico23231;942406][url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8398834/washington-redskins-joshua-morgan-gets-death-threats-twitter]Washington Redskins' Joshua Morgan gets death threats on Twitter - ESPN[/url]

Stupid plays really attract the ultra-stupid on twitter apparently. just embarrassing[/quote]

Wow this is really embarrassing for us. It was just a game, not a life and death situation :doh:

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=Chico23231;942406][url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8398834/washington-redskins-joshua-morgan-gets-death-threats-twitter]Washington Redskins' Joshua Morgan gets death threats on Twitter - ESPN[/url]

Stupid plays really attract the ultra-stupid on twitter apparently. just embarrassing[/quote]

Bottom feeding trash. Probably a few Cowboy fans.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=The Goat;942399]It goes back to pitting vacuum statistics to live play IMHO. Put all the pads on and get bumped around and the stronger guy is going to be quicker/faster on the field.

I'm not saying Garcon is actually slow out there, but I don't see him beating defenders consistently with speed. And he doesn't have the size, strength to overpower defenders and snatch the pigskin out of the air with tight coverage. All I'm saying is right now I think Garcon has a pretty limited skill-set, that's all. Hopefully he becomes superb route-runner and gains that intangible talent for creating space consistently.

Who would you guys compare Garcon with, past or present?

[url=http://www.nfl.com/player/pierregarcon/2346/profile]Pierre Garcon, WR for the Washington Redskins at NFL.com[/url][/quote]

I don't need a 40 time to tell me that Boldin was never faster or quicker than Garcon. But it at least establishes a baseline to go from, that's all.

I'm not sure who Garcon reminds me of honestly. He's got a good mix of size and speed. All I can say is he's a quality WR, more so than you seem to want to give him credit for, for whatever reason.

[QUOTE=Chico23231;942406][url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8398834/washington-redskins-joshua-morgan-gets-death-threats-twitter]Washington Redskins' Joshua Morgan gets death threats on Twitter - ESPN[/url]

Stupid plays really attract the ultra-stupid on twitter apparently. just embarrassing[/QUOTE]

They should find this guy and hold him down while morgan throws footballs at HIM.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=Chico23231;942406][url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8398834/washington-redskins-joshua-morgan-gets-death-threats-twitter]Washington Redskins' Joshua Morgan gets death threats on Twitter - ESPN[/url]

Stupid plays really attract the ultra-stupid on twitter apparently. just embarrassing[/quote]

No excuse for garbage like that. In this day of social media it happens too often. Internet tough guys who think anything goes because it's online.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=Bucket;942275]I say we just draft WR's every round till we find someone that is "megatron" worthy or [B]someone that GOAT approves of[/B].[/quote]

Well, for that, we just need to resign Gaffney.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=Mattyk;942423]I don't need a 40 time to tell me that Boldin was never faster or quicker than Garcon. But it at least establishes a baseline to go from, that's all.

I'm not sure who Garcon reminds me of honestly. He's got a good mix of size and speed. All I can say is he's a quality WR, more so than you seem to want to give him credit for, for whatever reason.[/quote]

Rod Smith. Similar stature, similar style of play, similar pedigree coming into the league, similar skillsets within Shanahan's offense. Both were physical players that played bigger than their sizes, fought for ever yard after the catch, could run the entire route tree, had the ability to be explosive and play in possession, and took pride in the running game.

Pierre Garcon strikes me as a great all-around WR. He may not be elite in any single area, but he's very strong in all of them.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=The Goat;942399]It goes back to pitting vacuum statistics to live play IMHO. Put all the pads on and get bumped around and the stronger guy is going to be quicker/faster on the field.

I'm not saying Garcon is actually slow out there, but I don't see him beating defenders consistently with speed. And he doesn't have the size, strength to overpower defenders and snatch the pigskin out of the air with tight coverage. All I'm saying is right now I think Garcon has a pretty limited skill-set, that's all. Hopefully he becomes superb route-runner and gains that intangible talent for creating space consistently.

Who would you guys compare Garcon with, past or present?

[url=http://www.nfl.com/player/pierregarcon/2346/profile]Pierre Garcon, WR for the Washington Redskins at NFL.com[/url][/quote]

One person I know compared him to Art Monk, not in that he is going to be all of that, but his frame and willingness to cross the middle. I liked the comparison.

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=Chico23231;942406][url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8398834/washington-redskins-joshua-morgan-gets-death-threats-twitter]Washington Redskins' Joshua Morgan gets death threats on Twitter - ESPN[/url]

Stupid plays really attract the ultra-stupid on twitter apparently. just embarrassing[/quote]

I would not be surprised if the OP was one of them

Re: Release Josh Morgan or else....
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;942492]I would not be surprised if the [B]OP[/B] was one of them[/quote]

who or what is that?