[QUOTE=GTripp0012;946467]I [B]am[/B] still holding out hope that Shanny turns it around. But it's irrational hope at this point. It's not based on logic or reason or any on field evidence from the last three years.

It's just me being a fan.[/QUOTE]

Oh my God im not alone! Thank you GTripp! I am not an uber pessimist or an uber optimist. This place is filled with both. It seems like you have to be one or the other so that after game day you can say i told you so to one side or the other. Lol. It is nice to know that there are others who root for the team without the rose colored glasses but yet with hope based solely on the fact that - well because were skins fans and we have no choice.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

This franchise wasnt ready to win when Shanny arrived. This franchise had bottomed out, the second year of Zorn proved it without a doubt. The second half of that season was the worst the team had ever played, yes worse the Spurrier era, since Ive been alive. The roster with it contracts was years away, no disputing it.

There is no argument Vinny and Danny ran the team into the ground and the roster was terrible. Terrible is a flat out understatement, the roster was horrible. Haynesworth is the biggest bust of the FA era. Look at the size of dollars vs play. Look at where he went afterwards and did NOTHING. Its no disputing it, worst FA signing ever.

To down play what Shanny did in winning in Denver and win 2 superbowl is insane. 2 SUPERBOWLS. Think: Won 2 superbowls.
People must have forgot what the Denver franchise was at that time.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

People hold onto this myth that all these teams bring in a new coach, jump instantly from "worst to first" and sustain it. That's rarely ever true. It often takes years of building up the roster and often the staff that does the leg work isn't around to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

I love, love, love Gibbs and what he did both times here. But particularly the second time he didn't build the roster to win anything more than "now"

Three years ago Redskins fans complained we had no young talent at QB, no youth or depth at OL, no franchise QB, slow and old defensive line, no legit #1 WR, no draft picks.

We've got those things. And we should benefit long term from these moves. But since they aren't all Pro Bowlers an we're not coming off an NFC championship I guess they're all losers

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=SmootSmack;946470]People hold onto this myth that all these teams bring in a new coach, jump instantly from "worst to first" and sustain it. That's rarely ever true. It often takes years of building up the roster and often the staff that does the leg work isn't around to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

I love, love, love Gibbs and what he did both times here. But particularly the second time he didn't build the roster to win anything more than "now"

Three years ago Redskins fans complained we had no young talent at QB, no youth or depth at OL, no franchise QB, slow and old front office, no legit #1 WR, no draft picks.

We've got those things. And we shoukd benefit long term from these moves. But since they aren't all Pro Bowlers an we're not coming off an NFC championship I guess they're all losers[/quote]boom roasted

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;946470]People hold onto this myth that all these teams bring in a new coach, jump instantly from "worst to first" and sustain it. That's rarely ever true. It often takes years of building up the roster and often the staff that does the leg work isn't around to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

I love, love, love Gibbs and what he did both times here. But particularly the second time he didn't build the roster to win anything more than "now"

Three years ago Redskins fans complained we had no young talent at QB, no youth or depth at OL, no franchise QB, slow and old defensive line, no legit #1 WR, no draft picks.

We've got those things. And we should benefit long term from these moves. But since they aren't all Pro Bowlers an we're not coming off an NFC championship I guess they're all losers[/QUOTE]

See but there you go. Nobody is saying there all losers. Why such extremes? Im simply saying that im not going to crown shanny the savior of the franchise UNTIL he wins. I have never said he wasnt great for winning two superbowls. I clearly pointed that out a couple posts ago when i was comparing him to gibbs 2.0. I also fully acknowledge the damage vinny did to this team but it has been three years and what i see now is a team with a great qb and a couple of weapons on offense. Alfred morris looks like a real find. A defense and special teams that are in a complete shambles and an oline that is one injury away from being very poor. So i have two questions for you that i hope will be answered based on what you think and not with sarcastic responses that make it seem like shanny is a pos because he didnt win three superbowls and we dont have pro bowlers at every position.
1)do you think the teams gibbs took to the playoffs were 6 wins better than what we have today?
2) it is year three - what year do you expect for us to field a relevant team that wins more than it loses (notice again that i did not say field the greatest team in the history of the nfl)?

I think the only coach we all agreed on was Gibbs, and that's just because he's a legend! I actually thought Marty was a good fit and would have made us a contender like he did everywhere else. Dan just had the quick trigger on that one

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

Plenty of people do say MS is a prick, a liar, a fraud who only ever won because of Elway and Davis.

1. Why 6 wins? Am I missing something? Anyhow, yes I do believe those teams were much better suited for short term success.

2. I expected and still do around .500 this year and a winning record and playoffs by next year that would continue with regularity after that

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

This is the biggest reason I didn't want Shanahan here, because too many people would think "well damn he should just win here instantly"

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;946478]Plenty of people do say MS is a prick, a liar, a fraud who only ever won because of Elway and Davis.

1. Why 6 wins? Am I missing something? Anyhow, yes I do believe those teams were much better suited for short term success.

2. I expected and still do around .500 this year and a winning record and playoffs by next year that would continue with regularity after that[/QUOTE]

I think 8-8 is realistic and if we do only win 5 games then maybe we would have a problem but I am a Ms fan and still support the move.

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;946476]I think the only coach we all agreed on was Gibbs, and that's just because he's a legend! I actually thought Marty was a good fit and would have made us a contender like he did everywhere else. Dan just had the quick trigger on that one[/QUOTE]

And Okie contrary to the backlash im taking for offering up the opinion that maybe shanny isnt doing a good job i do believe he was / is / could be again a great coach. Maybe the problem lies elswhere - his oc and dc - just dumb luck? I dont know. Im certainly not a debbie downer or a pessimistic skins fan. I do realize whole heartedly the damage that was done to the fabric of our team by vinny. I guess it just bothers me slightly that shanallen and this new regime are being hailed as saviors when they havent saved anything. Im not saying they wont im saying they havent yet so can we hold back on the thank you letters until they do. Can wr reserve judgement until i see it translates into wins. Why does that put me in the doom and gloom category? Lol

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;946478]Plenty of people do say MS is a prick, a liar, a fraud who only ever won because of Elway and Davis.

1. Why 6 wins? Am I missing something? Anyhow, yes I do believe those teams were much better suited for short term success.

2. I expected and still do around .500 this year and a winning record and playoffs by next year that would continue with regularity after that[/QUOTE]

Six wins better because i was comparing their record to the current team. I guess five would be more fair although this year is off to 1-2 so thats why i said six.
Ok thank you - so next year is the year you think that all shannys moves and his vision will translate to wins. Seems to be about the normal thought. I hope so. If they do i will say - wow shanny really had me going those first three years i thought maybe he was not on track for this.

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;946479]This is the biggest reason I didn't want Shanahan here, because too many people would think "well damn he should just win here instantly"[/QUOTE]

Anyone who thoght that was / is delusional. I havent questioned shanny until now. Year three. Maybe my creeping doubt is premature. I sure hope so.

[QUOTE=punch it in;946481]And Okie contrary to the backlash im taking for offering up the opinion that maybe shanny isnt doing a good job i do believe he was / is / could be again a great coach. Maybe the problem lies elswhere - his oc and dc - just dumb luck? I dont know. Im certainly not a debbie downer or a pessimistic skins fan. I do realize whole heartedly the damage that was done to the fabric of our team by vinny. I guess it just bothers me slightly that shanallen and this new regime are being hailed as saviors when they havent saved anything. Im not saying they wont im saying they havent yet so can we hold back on the thank you letters until they do. Can wr reserve judgement until i see it translates into wins. Why does that put me in the doom and gloom category? Lol[/QUOTE]

I understand where u are coming from when u say that shanny may not be the coach we thought he was because we haven't won in so long that who is the right guy? Your not the only one who is having doubt but I want to finish the season and hopefully win around 8 games to start something for next year

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

How about we finish this talk after the season?

All this doom and gloom after 3 games is slightly ridiculous.

It's a long season folks, buckle up.

Fair enough. Not doom and gloom though. Just concern for my team. Maybe unwarranted concern as i have stated. Lets beat tampa either way!

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/28/nick-collins-career-is-likely-over/]Nick Collins’ career is likely over | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=punch it in;946464][B]Matty do you not see any reasoning in the fact that shanny should not be loved by skins fans UNTIL he wins?[/B] I see alot of the same people that praise shanny now say things like gibbs shouldnt have come back. Gibbs went to the playoffs twice Shanny gets alot of love here because of his past success. How come it was so easy to overlook gibbs past success?[/quote]

I didnt realize I was supposed to hate RG3 until he won a SB in a Redskins uniform, my bad, wont happen again. I will make sure to hate every Redskin player, coach, front office staff, secretary, and announcer that has anything to do with the team from now til that SB crown is achieved.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

I don't think anyone is saying Shanahan has done an A+ job here. But I don't think it's fair to say things like all he's done that's noteworthy was to bring in RG3 or his 2 SB wins were a complete fluke. That's a little short sighted if you ask me and really not an intelligent discussion.

[QUOTE=Skinzman;946495]I didnt realize I was supposed to hate RG3 until he won a SB in a Redskins uniform, my bad, wont happen again. I will make sure to hate every Redskin player, coach, front office staff, secretary, and announcer that has anything to do with the team from now til that SB crown is achieved.[/QUOTE]

Typical extremist comment. Dont quote me and than twist my words around just to make a splash. There is a huge, i repeat huge difference in saying i want more wins than losses and i want superbowls. Lol. I have not said one thing that even remotely resembles what you are implying that i said. Please.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;946496]I don't think anyone is saying Shanahan has done an A+ job here. But I don't think it's fair to say things like all he's done that's noteworthy was to bring in RG3 or his 2 SB wins were a complete fluke. That's a little short sighted if you ask me and really not an intelligent discussion.[/QUOTE]

I also never said this. It is hard to have an intelligent discussion when everyone is either an uber optimist or an uber pessimist though?

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=GTripp0012;946465]There is no objective argument in favor of the job Mike Shanahan has done here. None. Just people who don't yet want to admit they were wrong.

Sorry if you're still holding out hope, but it's the truth.[/quote]

I say we put RG3 through the same thing JC went through.. 5 different offenses in 6 seasons. Shanahan hasn't even filled his contract out yet, and we are only 3 games in to this season and everyone is on the "In with the new" phase again. It's the main reason this franchise is in shambles.

Nobody is holding out hope, that don't have a right to do so. I HOPE we don't fire Shanahan just yet. I HOPE that Snyder doesn't listen to some of the fans and couch coaches we have on here that soak most of their football knowledge in from clicking on espn.com or coming to this forum board that is a cesspool of hypocritical impatient moronic fans.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

But people have said it. Not every post is a direct response to you punch

[QUOTE=Bucket;946501]I say we put RG3 through the same thing JC went through.. 5 different offenses in 6 seasons. Shanahan hasn't even filled his contract out yet, and we are only 3 games in to this season and everyone is on the "In with the new" phase again. It's the main reason this franchise is in shambles.

Nobody is holding out hope, that don't have a right to do so. I HOPE we don't fire Shanahan just yet. I HOPE that Snyder doesn't listen to some of the fans and couch coaches we have on here that soak most of their football knowledge in from clicking on espn.com or coming to this forum board that is a cesspool of hypocritical impatient moronic fans.[/QUOTE]

Im pretty sure the skins brass is not paying attention to us so i wouldnt worry about it. How can you call people names because they are alittle fed up with losing. Nobody said fire shanahan. What people have said is until he wins im not going to gush over him! You dont know if he is on the rite track until it translates to wins. Jesus. Dont be so quick to jump all over people and call them morons and make yourself out to be a better footbdll mind than everyone if you dont even understand what they are saying. I repeat nobody said fire shanahan they ( and me) said can we hold off until he wins ( in washington). Very proud of what he did in denver but i dont give a crap im not a friggin broncos fan. This is just ridiculous.

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;946502]But people have said it. Not every post is a direct response to you punch[/QUOTE]

I realize that and dont mean to come across like i dont. Sorry. However this morning me and gtripp are saying one thing - were not ready to hoist shanny on our shoulders. People are quoting my simple thoughts and making them out to be crazy - fire shanny - superbowl or bust nonsense? So as of this mirning alot of this is directed at me.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=punch it in;946498]Typical extremist comment. Dont quote me and than twist my words around just to make a splash. There is a huge, i repeat huge difference in saying i want more wins than losses and i want superbowls. Lol. I have not said one thing that even remotely resembles what you are implying that i said. Please.[/quote]

Extremist comment... Kind of like saying that Denver only won because of Elway and that Shanny had absolutely zero reason for that. Denver couldnt break through with Elway until Shanny arrived. Or that taking a 10 loss team that just lost what was considered one of the best QB's to ever play the game and taking it to 10-6, 10-6, 13-3 team in consecutive seasons is actually not good coaching, but is, in fact, driving the team into the ground.

You dont like the extremist comments that go against you, you dont have a problem with the ones that go for you. Dont complain about extremists comments when plenty of people sharing your side of the argument have spouted plenty off without a word from you.

Everyone seems to say wins and losses are all about the coach until its a coach they dont like and then they say the wins are because of the players and the losses are on the coach. I think people just need to make up their mind on exactly which one it is. Is it all coaches, all players, or a mix of both?

AS for the crux of your comment, I love the fact that we got RG3. I refuse to hate him until a *9-7* season happens. Better?

[QUOTE=Skinzman;946505]Extremist comment... Kind of like saying that Denver only won because of Elway and that Shanny had absolutely zero reason for that. Denver couldnt break through with Elway until Shanny arrived. Or that taking a 10 loss team that just lost what was considered one of the best QB's to ever play the game and taking it to 10-6, 10-6, 13-3 team in consecutive seasons is actually not good coaching, but is, in fact, driving the team into the ground.

You dont like the extremist comments that go against you, you dont have a problem with the ones that go for you. Dont complain about extremists comments when plenty of people sharing your side of the argument have spouted plenty off without a word from you.

Everyone seems to say wins and losses are all about the coach until its a coach they dont like and then they say the wins are because of the players and the losses are on the coach. I think people just need to make up their mind on exactly which one it is. Is it all coaches, all players, or a mix of both?

AS for the crux of your comment, I love the fact that we got RG3. I refuse to hate him until a *9-7* season happens. Better?[/QUOTE]

I happen to agree with u about shanny. You could argue that when elway won he was a shell of himself. Im not sure what extreme comment i made. That is what is driving me nuts. Also i never said hate anyone until they do anything. You said that. Im simply reserving praise for the job this regime does until they translate to wins. Its actually an absurdly simple comment. But the lashing im taking you would think i said blow it up burn it down everyone sucks. Like SS said other people have made dumb comments in a debbie downer way long before i ever joined the warpath so i guess people wanting to jump all over me for saying im not ready to crown shanny a savior YET is understandable. For the sake of my saturdat afternoon ill drop it now. Just hope im not labeled a hater for no reason.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

How about we get this thread back to week 4 talk

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=punch it in;946506]I happen to agree with u about shanny. You could argue that when elway won he was a shell of himself. Im not sure what extreme comment i made. That is what is driving me nuts. Also i never said hate anyone until they do anything. You said that. Im simply reserving praise for the job this regime does until they translate to wins. Its actually an absurdly simple comment. But the lashing im taking you would think i said blow it up burn it down everyone sucks. Like SS said other people have made dumb comments in a debbie downer way long before i ever joined the warpath so i guess people wanting to jump all over me for saying im not ready to crown shanny a savior YET is understandable. For the sake of my saturdat afternoon ill drop it now. Just hope im not labeled a hater for no reason.[/quote]

Let it be known when it comes to me, you can have whatever opinion you want to have. I will debate your opinion if I disagree, but im not claiming you hate the Skins. Also, Ive had this debate in the thread with other people, The goat and Mechanix mainly, I believe that was my first direct comment to you. Also check my join date and total posts, im right there with you. Joined the month prior and have no where near your posts, so I dont buy the whole im new routine, since im doing that dance as well.

Not directed at you: To the people who say that ALL SKINS FANS thought Shanny would win now. How absurd of a comment. I was critical of the trade for McNabb because I thought it was a win now move and I never thought we could win now. I was upset that those picks went out the window for what I thought would be minimal return (and it turned out a lot worse than that actually) instead of being used on youth to rebuild a horrible team that had zero chance of winning now.

[QUOTE=Skinzman;946510]Let it be known when it comes to me, you can have whatever opinion you want to have. I will debate your opinion if I disagree, but im not claiming you hate the Skins. Also, Ive had this debate in the thread with other people, The goat and Mechanix mainly, I believe that was my first direct comment to you. Also check my join date and total posts, im right there with you. Joined the month prior and have no where near your posts, so I dont buy the whole im new routine, since im doing that dance as well.

Not directed at you: To the people who say that ALL SKINS FANS thought Shanny would win now. How absurd of a comment. I was critical of the trade for McNabb because I thought it was a win now move and I never thought we could win now. I was upset that those picks went out the window for what I thought would be minimal return (and it turned out a lot worse than that actually) instead of being used on youth to rebuild a horrible team that had zero chance of winning now.[/QUOTE]

Directed at the directed at me comment: lol.
I am not sure about what u mean about being new? If you mean because i said make a splash i didnt mean it like that. I just meant trying to say something with alot of umphhh to it. There is no direct relation with ur join date and ur knowledge imo. Lol. I am very active on here because i appreciate you and everyone else who accepts others opinions unlike my miserable time spent on es.

Speaking of week four talk ss what is your opinion on garcon and wilson playing tomorrow?

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

I think yes on Garçon playing. Wilson not sure

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I just wish Shanny (and the rest of the nfl for that matter) would stop icing kickers. I don't know why it bothers me so much, but it does lol

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=SmootSmack;946509]How about we get this thread back to week 4 talk[/quote]

you could just change the thread title: "Smackdown your favorite team...Shanny Style"

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;946513]I think yes on Garçon playing. Wilson not sure[/QUOTE]

We might put up fifty if the french waiter plays!

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=punch it in;946499]I also never said this. It is hard to have an intelligent discussion when everyone is either an uber optimist or an uber pessimist though?[/quote]

I wasn't talking directly to you.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;946517]I wasn't talking directly to you.[/QUOTE]

Yes i know i was just sort of using the context of ur post to point out that im not a shanny basher.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=punch it in;946466]I agree. Im still holding out hope as im sure you are. We are skins fans. [B]But this is theee worst three year run according to wins and losses ( which i thought is what a teams success was based on) in a long time.[/B][/quote]

Maybe [I]that's[/I] what some of us are missing!!! Football isn't about winning anymore. There's a higher ethic to be revealed, and some of us just haven't seen it yet. In this "parallel universe" the Shanahans are gods, and who are we to question.

(End sarcasm)

In all seriousness, it's gotten tiresome hearing the same ole bullet point credentials for Mike.

What about Trent?

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

Doubtful last I heard

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=SmootSmack;946513]I think yes on Garçon playing. Wilson not sure[/quote]

Are the concerns with wilson related to the concussion symptoms from week 2 or something new?