[QUOTE=Angry;978392]Ther is only one who is allowed to be Angry. I absolve everyone else from the emotion and title.

Its just football gents.

Edit: Actually I have no authority to do that...fight on gents![/QUOTE]

No authority from God to absolve us or from Matty and SS to moderate the thread?

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=Angry;978392]Ther is only one who is allowed to be Angry. I absolve everyone else from the emotion and title.

Its just football gents.

Edit: Actually I have no authority to do that...fight on gents![/quote]

I will abide by whatever authority, real or imagined, you possess. HTTR!!

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

Rob Jackson instincts/football IQ might be better than Orakpo's. That seemed impossible at the beginning of the season. Jackson isn't a physical freak but could eventually be the better overall player. I'd keep them both still and switch them up. Time to push Orakpo anyway.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=The Goat;978404]Rob Jackson instincts/football IQ might be better than Orakpo's. That seemed impossible at the beginning of the season. Jackson isn't a physical freak but could eventually be the better overall player. I'd keep them both still and switch them up. Time to push Orakpo anyway.[/quote]

I think they are quite different players. Orakpo is better at rushing the QB and while he has gotten better, still seems a bit lost in open space. Jackson is better in open space than he is being a pash rusher. Jackson seems more like Kerrigan to me. Imo, both are more suited to a 4-3 OLB where they play a more all around game and the pash rushing is on blitzes. I always thought Orakpo would be a better 4-3 DE with his hand on the ground than a 3-4 OLB. Orakpo should have run duty and rushing the QB duty, not trying to cover a TE or RB in pass coverage.

I do agree it is time to push Orakpo. He needs to learn a swim or spin move and then let him loose on attacking the QB. But we cant afford to pay him top pash rusher money if he is a bull rusher who also spends some time being average at best in coverage.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=The Goat;978404]Rob Jackson instincts/football IQ might be better than Orakpo's. That seemed impossible at the beginning of the season. Jackson isn't a physical freak but could eventually be the better overall player. I'd keep them both still and switch them up. Time to push Orakpo anyway.[/quote]

I agree that Jackson is a phenomenal player but Orakpo is still the better pass rusher. Until Jackson makes a couple of trips to the pro bowl, he's not in Orakpo's class just yet.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=Skinzman;978436]I think they are quite different players. Orakpo is better at rushing the QB and while he has gotten better, still seems a bit lost in open space. Jackson is better in open space than he is being a pash rusher. Jackson seems more like Kerrigan to me. Imo, both are more suited to a 4-3 OLB where they play a more all around game and the pash rushing is on blitzes. I always thought Orakpo would be a better 4-3 DE with his hand on the ground than a 3-4 OLB. Orakpo should have run duty and rushing the QB duty, not trying to cover a TE or RB in pass coverage.

I do agree it is time to push Orakpo. He needs to learn a swim or spin move and then let him loose on attacking the QB. But we cant afford to pay him top pash rusher money if he is a bull rusher who also spends some time being average at best in coverage.[/quote]

I think both Orakpo and Kerrigan need to learn a couple of more moves. Watch tape of Miller or Ware or someone because both of them do the same bull rush move every time.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=The Goat;978404]Rob Jackson instincts/football IQ might be better than Orakpo's. That seemed impossible at the beginning of the season. Jackson isn't a physical freak but could eventually be the better overall player. I'd keep them both still and switch them up. Time to push Orakpo anyway.[/quote]

Jackson has had moments, but judging from the lack of pass rush this entire season Orakpo's pass rush is more important and vital to the team.

Were gonna be one sick team in two years. If we can steal a championship or two before that ill take it. Am i getting greedy? :)

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=donofriose;978518]Jackson has had moments, but judging from the lack of pass rush this entire season Orakpo's pass rush is more important and vital to the team.[/quote]

No doubt.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;978514]I agree that Jackson is a phenomenal player but Orakpo is still the better pass rusher. Until Jackson makes a couple of trips to the pro bowl, he's not in Orakpo's class just yet.[/quote]

There is so much more to LB position than pass rush. Unfortunately the sack stats is what gets all of the attention, big contracts and accolades. I would much rather have a LB with great instinct, solid against the run and pass coverage than a one trick pony LB that is only good at pass rush.
I think at times Orakpo is a liability.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=The Goat;978404]Rob Jackson instincts/football IQ might be better than Orakpo's. That seemed impossible at the beginning of the season. Jackson isn't a physical freak but could eventually be the better overall player. I'd keep them both still and switch them up. Time to push Orakpo anyway.[/quote]

You nailed it Goat! :food-smil

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

I'm not as high on Brian Orakpo as some. He's a phenomenal athlete, but his results on the field have left me wanting. Not saying we should trade, bench him, or anything else. I'm just not as high on him as most. And considering where Rob Jackson was drafted, we're definitely getting more bang for our buck from a business perspective.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=donofriose;978518]Jackson has had moments, but judging from the lack of pass rush this entire season Orakpo's pass rush is more important and vital to the team.[/quote]

I disagree and our win-loss record does not reflect that.

[QUOTE=Defensewins;978533]I disagree and our win-loss record does not reflect that.[/QUOTE]

Our pass rush does though. We have excelled on offense and buckled down on defense , but the pass rush has been inept.
Edit: i do wish that both Rak and Kerrigan had another move. Both are very one dimensional in their pass rush technique

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=donofriose;978518]Jackson has had moments, but judging from the lack of pass rush this entire season Orakpo's pass rush is more important and vital to the team.[/quote]

true, but you gotta keep both. Jackson is a free agent and has proven to be a great backup/depth player who is excellent in pass rush packages. Gotta keep Jackson at this point, his play making ability has been game changing. Cant let that leave.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=punch it in;978534]Our pass rush does though. We have excelled on offense and buckled down on defense , but the pass rush has been inept.
Edit: i do wish that both Rak and Kerrigan had another move. Both are very one dimensional in their pass rush technique[/quote]

An interception is better than a sack. Rob Jackson has three, one going for a TD. His sack and strip of Flacco was a critical play.
You can also consider that the defense has "buckled down" partly due to Jackson heady play. He is a smart player.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=Defensewins;978537]An interception is better than a sack. Rob Jackson has three, one going for a TD. His sack and strip of Flacco was a critical play.
You can also consider that the defense has "buckled down" partly due to Jackson heady play. He is a smart player.[/quote]

Jackson has excelled exactly where Orakpo has immensley struggled, out on pass plays. Jackson has value on the defense, like to see them both on the field for the future.

[QUOTE=Defensewins;978537]An interception is better than a sack. Rob Jackson has three, one going for a TD. His sack and strip of Flacco was a critical play.
You can also consider that the defense has "buckled down" partly due to Jackson heady play. He is a smart player.[/QUOTE]

Im not denying that Jackson has been impressive, but opposing qb's just have way to much time.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=The Goat]Rob Jackson instincts/football IQ might be better than Orakpo's. That seemed impossible at the beginning of the season. Jackson isn't a physical freak but could eventually be the better overall player. I'd keep them both still and switch them up. Time to push Orakpo anyway.[/quote]

But I thought proof of the Shanny's failures was that they weren't developing any late round defensive talent?

More comments to ignore from Goat world.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

As to the substance, Jackson is the type of player who is the meat and potatoes of most good teams. Someone who flashes well and when called to step in do so admirably. RJ is not and likely never will be a multi-pro bowl type guy. He is someone that can play well in this league.

Let's not forget, however, this is his 5th year. It's not like he just came on out of nowhere, he is a someone who has grown up in the system after having a couple years to get his feet wet. He's got 5 more solid, unspectacular years left in him. I hope we retain him for those. Reminds me a lot of Mel Kaufman/Monte Coleman from the 80's.

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;978548]But I thought proof of the Shanny's failures was that they weren't developing any late round defensive talent?

More comments to ignore from Goat world.[/QUOTE]

Goat is trying to come into the light and you keep pushing him back into the darkness.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=punch it in;978553]Goat is trying to come into the light and you keep pushing him back into the darkness.[/quote][YT]7tDdy_1slNM[/YT]

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;978548]But I thought proof of the Shanny's failures was that they weren't developing any late round defensive talent?

More comments to ignore from Goat world.[/quote]

Jackson was here before Shanny.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

Unrepentant, inconsistent, irrational argument needs to be highlighted, whether it is mine, Goat's or SmootSmack's argument. I will welcome Goat into the light when he stops resorting to tautological fallicies and then pretending he has never done so.

I feel safe that the lights in Goat World will remain off.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;978556]Jackson was here before Shanny.[/quote]he said developing

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=Chico23231;978535]true, but you gotta keep both. Jackson is a free agent and has proven to be a great backup/depth player who is excellent in pass rush packages. Gotta keep Jackson at this point, his play making ability has been game changing. Cant let that leave.[/quote]

I agree keep both. I still think Orakpo is a better overall player so if I had to choose between the two I would choose Orakpo. Jackson is better at making plays in coverage, Orakpo from what I have seen is better at everything else.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;978556]Jackson was here before Shanny.[/quote]

I know, kinda my point. When Shanny came in, Jackson was not a starter, but a developmental player in whom, apparently, Shanny saw something.

Look, it's paying off 3 years later.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=htownskinfan;978017]There needs to be a 3rd option in the poll beside yes or no,like not quite yet.
If the Shanaplan was to suck so bad that would end up with RG3 then it was a great plan.Yes were on a nice winning streak but im not getting carried away.Im not quite ready to forget the Mcnabb fiasco and the way the whole thing was handled.The whole Haynesworth thing,switching to the 3-4 made no sense and pissed off your 100 million dollar player,those are 2 major f ckups im not ready to forget just because weve won a few games in a row.
The other little things that plagued Mike since he's been here like clock management and on field descisions like when to throw flag for instant replay,have improved slightly during win streak but not by much.
Theres been a few things ive had problems with but we won the games so they were rendered mute.
Then theres the leading the league in penalties,is that on the coach?
Im happy with the progress weve made and I think Mike and Kyle have improved over the winning streak but Im not ready to click on yes or no just yet[/quote]

I forgot to mention I do thing The Shan has done some positive things.I think overall theyve drafted pretty well.I liked the signing of Hightower,Garcon,Wilson,and i might be forgetting someone.So I do think theyve done some good things.Like I said,wish there was a 3rd option to poll

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=Defensewins;978537]An interception is better than a sack. Rob Jackson has three, one going for a TD. His sack and strip of Flacco was a critical play.
You can also consider that the defense has "buckled down" partly due to Jackson heady play. He is a smart player.[/quote]

He is a good role player, I do not think he can be a long term starter though. A single interception is better than a sack. But a consistent pass rusher through an entire is better than a linebacker who has three interceptions and makes flashy plays. I still think we should keep them both but to think that Jackson will replace Orakpo's impact vs. the run and vs. the pass is far fetched at best. There is a reason the pass defense is so inept, and a huge reason is lack of any pass rush. Redskins have improved slightly but we just improved to terrible to bad. It is not like the Redskins all of a sudden are a top tier defense with Jackson's presence. Redskins are still a well below average defense and Orakpo and Carriker's presence on the d-line has proven to be essential to the success of the defense.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=Defensewins;978529]There is so much more to LB position than pass rush. Unfortunately the sack stats is what gets all of the attention, big contracts and accolades. I would much rather have a LB with great instinct, solid against the run and pass coverage than a one trick pony LB that is only good at pass rush.
I think at times Orakpo is a liability.[/quote]

In the 3-4 your outside LBs are your main pass rushers, so they better be good or your D will suffer, as we've seen.

I think Rak is more solid overall than some give him credit for. He's come a long way.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

Rob Jackson had one interception against cleveland and their rookie QB and now people are here saying he could replace Orakpo or Kerrigan. Lets see some consistency before we give anyone a starter title

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=Defensewins;978529]There is so much more to LB position than pass rush. Unfortunately the sack stats is what gets all of the attention, big contracts and accolades. I would much rather have a LB with great instinct, solid against the run and pass coverage than a one trick pony LB that is only good at pass rush.
I think at times Orakpo is a liability.[/quote]

Perhaps there is a bit of truth in what you say. I think Jackson can probably cover better than Orakpo. He can also get to the QB just as ferociously. People tend to forget that both of these men are natural DEs so they both are impressive linebackers. While Orakpo is the slightly better pass rusher of the two, he still needs to work on his coverage skills come next season.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

Rob Jackson has really developed as a pass rusher and in coverage. Love me some 50.

But to say he is the same or better than Rak is pure foolishness. He lacks Rak's power and burst, for one.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

Regarding the pass rush -- I can't speak to how often it is called but it seems as though 80% of holds against LBs don't get called. Maybe I am misunderstanding the rule but in the replays it seems as though an OT has to have a linebacker in the choker before a hold is called.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;978580]Rob Jackson had one interception against cleveland and their rookie QB and now people are here saying he could replace Orakpo or Kerrigan. Lets see some consistency before we give anyone a starter title[/quote]

to be fair, he had an interception against Cincinnati too.

I agree though, and Rak actually looked pretty good in coverage prior to his injury this season.

I do believe however, that Jackson has all the tools to be a starter.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;978615]Regarding the pass rush -- I can't speak to how often it is called but it seems as though 80% of holds against LBs don't get called. Maybe I am misunderstanding the rule but in the replays it seems as though an OT has to have a linebacker in the choker before a hold is called.[/quote]

They just don't call holding like they used to.

It's an offense driven league.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=Mattyk;978624]They just don't call holding like they used to.

It's an offense driven league.[/quote]

Seems like the pass rushers have just gotten too good. They never call the sideways arm bar neck block that is really obviously a hold...but if they did call it then eventually the QB would start getting sacked like 15 times a game. Orakpo gets held like that like every play...same with Kerrigan.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=FRPLG;978640]Seems like the pass rushers have just gotten too good. They never call the sideways arm bar neck block that is really obviously a hold...but if they did call it then eventually the QB would start getting sacked like 15 times a game. Orakpo gets held like that like every play...same with Kerrigan.[/quote]

It was just pathetic on the MNF against the Giants when Chucky pretty much showed a replay of Kerrigan being put on a choke hold by the Giants' lineman.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;978580]Rob Jackson had one interception against cleveland and their rookie QB and now people are here saying he could replace Orakpo or Kerrigan. Lets see some consistency before we give anyone a starter title[/quote]


Is four sacks in the last five games consistent enough? All wins. He has three interceptions and 2 forced fumbles with two games to play. So he has caused five turnovers for our defense.
I am not saying get rid of Orakpo, keep them both, but Jackson should play his fair share and not waste away on the bench.
I highly disagree with some that say Orakpo is better against the run. No sir. Orakpo sometimes on run plays guesses wrong and goes for the sack. Completely over running the play and failing to keep gap responsibility. Jackson is better at setting the edge against the run. Jackson is better in space and making football decisions on the fly. [B]That skill can not be measured by stats. [/B]
Orakpo has not blossomed into the dominate LB he is supposed to be at this point in his career. Yes he has sacks, but he has weakness' in his game at point in his career where he should be past them. Kerrigan was already surpassed Orakpo at OLB.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=Mattyk;978624]They just don't call holding like they used to.

It's an offense driven league.[/quote]

That is just awful -- I understand that the offense is what drives the excitement but I really hate how the league has neutered great defensive play in some respects. That's why my favorite play is when a quarterback (not RG3 of course) gets blown up on a sack.