Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=Chico23231;1000260]Genie Girl > Flo

Fred Davis > Paulsen[/quote]

This.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1000259]Agreed. [B]Griffin will make Paulsen into a superstar.[/B] He'll make ANYONE into a superstar as long as they can catch a ball.

We do not need to overpay for a TE as long as we have RGIII.[/quote]

I like LP but he's not a superstar in the making no matter who's at QB.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=Mattyk;1000261]Maybe the Progressive commercials are clouding your mind a bit.

He's a good TE and a dangerous part of this offense.

I wouldn't get caught up in what's being said in the media right now. He's just considering his options and no doubt his agent is trying to pump up his value.[/quote]
We seemed to do fine without him last year.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

winnfield still demands a pretty penny. not sure he'd be worth the price we'd have to pay at his age.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=Mattyk;1000262]This.[/quote]

We probably have a better chance of sleeping with Flo and the Skins have a better chance as LP the featured TE in 2013.

Yes there are better options for our penis (Flo) and the Skins (LP) but you get what you can afford.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=mredskins;1000265]We seemed to do fine without him last year.[/quote]

Says the guy who has a hard on to nail the chick in the insurance commercial with the 50's bouffant hair style. ;)

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=mredskins;1000265]We seemed to do fine without him last year.[/quote]

Fine sure. Could have done better though with a healthy Garcon and Davis both in the lineup.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

Winfield might be old as he will be 36 in few months, but he still gets it done. He didn't even allow a touchdown through air in his side whole season last fall. He is good at blitzing & creating turnovers. I would love it if we are able to find a way to sign him, I don't think there is any better free agent who could come in, help us on the field and mentor our young DBs other than Winfield and Woodson.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

What's our cap situation look like at the moment Canuck?

What do people think Winfield would command for an entire contract/against the cap this year?

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=Mattyk;1000269]Fine sure. Could have done better though with a healthy Garcon and Davis both in the lineup.[/quote]

I agree!

I am off to fawk Flo everyone have a great night!

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=SkinzWin;1000271]What's our cap situation look like at the moment Canuck?[/quote]

Really not sure right now. Will try to do an update in the near future.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

Winfield gonna join us?

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=Chico23231;1000230]Ive did in the past. It all comes down to ego. Love turning those guys down for a big loan.[/quote]

Huh?

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;1000250][URL="http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/03/25/fred-davis-will-make-teams-regret-not-signing-him-including-redskins/"]Fred Davis Will Make Teams ‘Regret’ Not Signing Him, Including Redskins « CBS DC[/URL]

“I really feel like since I’ve been in the league I haven’t been recognized to the likening that I would like to be,” Davis told NFL AM recently. In fact, he says the only tight end that really gets any respect is Tony Gonzalez.

- Yes Fred you deserve the same respect as Gonzalez. :doh:
Getting a little tired of this guy... if he goes elsewhere I won't lose any sleep.[/quote]

Yep. Given the size/reach advantage Lunch Pale has the undeniable success of that TE type ala Graham, Gronkowski I don't mind waiving goodbye to Davis. Logan will be a poor man's Graham/Gronk and I'm fine with that given the talent spread throughout our offense at the skill positions.

Honestly, I'd rather have an upgrade at RT over Davis at this point.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=mredskins;1000257]Correct if I am wrong but other then that little stretch at the beginning of this year I have not seen much out of F. Davis.

Honestly the guy can hit the bricks for all I care.[/quote]

I don't want to put him down, when he has played, his numbers have been very good according to [URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaviFr01.htm"]profootball-reference.com[/URL]. His AV (or their attempt to put a number to a name) for his 5 years was: 2008-2012: 1, 6,3,7, 5 - I don't quite know how they use those, but I assume closer to 1 is good. But what he doesn't get, I don't think, is out of 5 years, he has never started more than 12 games in one season (2008-2012: 2, 10, 9,12, 7).

So if he ever got on track, I think he could be an outstanding TE, and this year he may show that with a chip on his shoulder, but no (good) team is going to pay for potential, when his past has been so spotty.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

What type of money will Winfield demand? Damn he's old; Deion old.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=RGIII;1000286]What type of money will Winfield demand? Damn he's old; [B]Deion old.[/B][/quote]

Correction. Leon Sandcastle old.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

I don't see why we'd sign Winfield.

He's old, injury prone (now) and only a 1-2 year stop gap. I'd take Hall over him.

[QUOTE=The Goat;1000292]I don't see why we'd sign Winfield.

He's old, injury prone (now) and only a 1-2 year stop gap. I'd take Hall over him.[/QUOTE]

Winfield is better than Hall even though he is older. And he will get fewer dumb penalties. and he will cost less than, or at worst the same as, Hall. and we are exactly looking for a stop gap of 1-2 years while we invest heavily in young (ie drafted) CB talent.

For the life of me I don't understand why some are still making Hall out as an effective number 1 CB, he isn't that and he shouldn't be paid like one. If he wants to come back at #2 or nickel back money then fine, but otherwise he and FDavis can go tear it up in the AFC East.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1000294]Winfield is better than Hall even though he is older. And he will get fewer dumb penalties. and he will cost less than, or at worst the same as, Hall. and we are exactly looking for a stop gap of 1-2 years while we invest heavily in young (ie drafted) CB talent.

For the life of me I don't understand why some are still making Hall out as an [B]effective number 1 CB, he isn't that and he shouldn't be paid like one[/B]. If he wants to come back at #2 or nickel back money then fine, but otherwise he and FDavis can go tear it up in the AFC East.[/quote]

Same is true of Winfield. I'm still talking about Hall at FS. CB should be high draft pick, not FA given our cap sitz.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

man some people are pretty harsh on Hall, he is far from a good corner but we have to realize, our safeties on our roster right now other than merriweather are ass cheeks. Hall would be ok IMO with an actual starting NFL safety backing him up, with his style of play he gambles thats how he makes plays but when there is no chance of the safety even coming close to helping it shows much more....

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

BOLD PREDICTION: We sign Hall AND Winfield (after some more restructuring), and then take 5 CBs and safeties in the draft….

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=SkinzWin;1000301]BOLD PREDICTION: We sign Hall AND Winfield (after some more restructuring), and then take 5 CBs and safeties in the draft….[/quote]

I've got us taking 4.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=The Goat;1000295]Same is true of Winfield. I'm still talking about Hall at FS. CB should be high draft pick, not FA given our cap sitz.[/quote]

Winfield's play hasn't declined. He'd be a good pickup on a short term contract. Unlike Hall, Winfield will actually tackle people.

Hall at FS would drive me crazy. I couldn't stand watching him, as our last line of defense, getting run over or avoiding tackling altogether. He plays football like a matador and I hate that.

You're right about one thing: CB should be a high draft pick. We should also sign one more vet on a short term deal.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1000303]Winfield's play hasn't declined. He'd be a good pickup on a short term contract. Unlike Hall, Winfield will actually tackle people.

Hall at FS would drive me crazy. I couldn't stand watching him, as our last line of defense, getting run over or avoiding tackling altogether. He plays football like a matador and I hate that.

You're right about one thing: CB should be a high draft pick. We should also sign one more vet on a short term deal.[/quote]
Have you ever watched Hall play in a game?

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;1000305]Have you ever watched Hall play in a game?[/quote]

It depends which game. Hall in one game will look great like against Dallas, then the next week will look awful, getting dragged by QB's and getting beat by third string receivers. Because Hall is so inconsistent, it just depends on which game you watch whether or not Hall will be good or bad, Hall isn't gaining much attention for a reason, because teams are not dumb enough to pay him almost 8 million like the skins would have, which is why they cut him.

Winfield would be a great value for the skins to sign depending on the price, a lot more valuable than Hall seeing as how Winfield graded out a lot better than Hall. Luckily the Skins are waiting for the market to settle which is what great teams do.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=donofriose;1000306]It depends which game. Hall in one game will look great like against Dallas, then the next week will look awful, getting dragged by QB's and getting beat by third string receivers. Because Hall is so inconsistent, it just depends on which game you watch whether or not Hall will be good or bad, Hall is gaining much attention for a reason, because teams are not dumb enough to pay him almost 8 million like the skins would have, which is why they cut him.

Winfield would be a great value for the skins to sign depending on the price, a lot more valuable than Hall seeing as how Winfield graded out a lot better than Hall. Luckily the Skins are waiting for the market to settle which is what great teams do.[/quote]
This is it in a nutshell. If Hall played at his top level every game(he won't), and kept stupidity off the field (he's been better of late), then maybe he would be worth keeping, but never at anywhere near what he was going to make, especially in a cap strapped year.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1000303]Winfield's play hasn't declined. He'd be a good pickup on a short term contract. Unlike Hall, Winfield will actually tackle people.

Hall at FS would drive me crazy. I couldn't stand watching him, as our last line of defense, getting run over or avoiding tackling altogether. He plays football like a matador and I hate that.

You're right about one thing: CB should be a high draft pick. We should also sign one more vet on a short term deal.[/quote]

Yeah not sure where this Hall at safety idea comes from. With his style of play he's best suited for corner. He gambles way too much. Who's to say if he would even want to play safety full time??

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;1000305]Have you ever watched Hall play in a game?[/quote]

I've seen every Redskins game and player since 1960 and Hall is no safety.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

Let's face it Hall or Winfield are both stop gaps. Even at his age Winfield is the better player and value.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

I don't think we would bring back Hall and sign Winfield. That would give us 5 CBs on the roster and two-three guys who could possibly be gone next year (Wilson, Hall, Winfield)

Wouldn't we be best served by adding one more vet to the secondary and drafting the rest?

Yeah. I am pretty sure it's a choice between Hall or Winfield. Me, I go with Winfield in heartbeat.

Hall as a safety? It is to laugh.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1000331]I don't think we would bring back Hall and sign Winfield. That would give us 5 CBs on the roster and two-three guys who could possibly be gone next year (Wilson, Hall, Winfield)

[B]Wouldn't we be best served by adding one more vet to the secondary and drafting the rest[/B]?[/quote]

That's most likely the plan.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

I'd bring Hall back simply based on his knowledge of the system and the rest of the players on the D .. rather than Winfield learning our D.. the skill level is closely comparable and I just see someone who has lived this system for a few years as being a better fit than someone compareable in skill level.. but for us, it's all going to come down to the amount of $ each of these players is willing to sign for... I'm fine with Hall coming back, he played well down the stretch and could be teaching a rookie or two this system when we draft them.. IMO i think that might be the better of these 2 scenarios

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=Meks;1000342]I'd bring Hall back simply based on his knowledge of the system and the rest of the players on the D .. rather than Winfield learning our D.. the skill level is closely comparable and I just see someone who has lived this system for a few years as being a better fit than someone compareable in skill level.. but for us, it's all going to come down to the amount of $ each of these players is willing to sign for... I'm fine with Hall coming back, he played well down the stretch and could be teaching a rookie or two this system when we draft them.. IMO i think that might be the better of these 2 scenarios[/quote]

i disagree . . . the last person i would wan't mentoring the young secondary players is Hall, a corner that only positive aspect is his ability to get a pick . . . he is horrible in coverage, horrible against the run, horrible blitzing and a complete headcase . . . keep him as far away from the rookies as you can!! at least winfield has something to teach!! and winfield now is 10 times the player that hall ever was . . .

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=SkinzWin;1000301]BOLD PREDICTION: We sign Hall AND Winfield (after some more restructuring), and then take 5 CBs and safeties in the draft….[/quote]

It's not THAT bold...it's smart for our position.

We need to load up on young secondary players but need some certainty going into this year which Winfield and Hall could provide. Hopefully a few of the draft picks will be long-term gold but we shouldn't count on mid-round picks saving us this year.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

To me, Hall and Davis are the last remnants of the Vinny years. Each has talent. Each is vastly overrating themselves in terms of that talent.

I concede that, both in terms of play and attitude Hall seemed to turn himself around a little the last half of last year. As others have pointed out, however, there is simply no guarantee that he continues to do so. If we end up with him back, it wouldn't be the end of the world although I think it best if both he and the team move on. [As for mentoring younger players - Hall is the one who needs constant mentoring. W/o Fletcher to ride herd, I am convinced Hall's gambling style and attitude would be astronomically worse].

As to "knowing the system", well ... Winfield is a good 10 year vet. While I don't know what his background is in terms of the defenses he has played, I think "system knowledge" is vastly overrated.

The real question is does he have the talent and qualities that make him a fit for our system. To that, I think he has shown himself to be a physical corner that our system requires. The guy knows how to blitz, is a physical tackler and can still cover well enough. Since his profile seems to fit the scheme we play, I feel pretty sure we don't run anything so exotic that a 10 year vet can't pick it up in an off-season.

The "knows the system" argument was the same some here advanced for keeping Gafney over Garcon last year. Pretty sure we all can agree that, in hindsight, we're glad the Skins made that switch.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

I'd never want gaffney over and younger faster more upside garcon lol..

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=Mattyk;1000325]Let's face it Hall or Winfield are both stop gaps. Even at his age Winfield is the better player and value.[/quote]

Yes, because a guy who can't make it on the field, is better then one who is.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1000345]To me, Hall and Davis are the last remnants of the Vinny years. Each has talent. Each is vastly overrating themselves in terms of that talent.

I concede that, both in terms of play and attitude Hall seemed to turn himself around a little the last half of last year. As others have pointed out, however, there is simply no guarantee that he continues to do so. If we end up with him back, it wouldn't be the end of the world although I think it best if both he and the team move on. [As for mentoring younger players - Hall is the one who needs constant mentoring. W/o Fletcher to ride herd, I am convinced Hall's gambling style and attitude would be astronomically worse].

As to "knowing the system", well ... Winfield is a good 10 year vet. While I don't know what his background is in terms of the defenses he has played, I think "system knowledge" is vastly overrated.

The real question is does he have the talent and qualities that make him a fit for our system. To that, I think he has shown himself to be a physical corner that our system requires. The guy knows how to blitz, is a physical tackler and can still cover well enough. Since his profile seems to fit the scheme we play, I feel pretty sure we don't run anything so exotic that a 10 year vet can't pick it up in an off-season.

The "knows the system" argument was the same some here advanced for keeping Gafney over Garcon last year. [B] Pretty sure we all can agree that, in hindsight, we're glad the Skins made that switch.[/B][/quote]
Ye of little faith. We would have won 9 out of 9 games Gaffney played in.