Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1007156]What if?
What if?
What if he becomes a five time pro bowler?[/quote]

lol seriously

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1007156]What if?
What if?
What if he becomes a five time pro bowler?[/quote]

What if he's the first homosexual, Christian, transgendered, Muslim, illegal immigrant Pro Bowler with Turrets Syndrome?

Who cares, lets just see what he can do on the field and stop this "what if" game.

Aren't we as Skins fans tired of the "what if" game we had to play under Vinny for a decade?

It's time to sit back and watch our team kick butt on the field. Lets enjoy this time and stop worrying so much.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1007161]What if he's the first homosexual, Christian, transgendered, Muslim, illegal immigrant Pro Bowler with Turrets Syndrome?[/quote]

Too soon still for a openly Vegan player? <sigh>

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

I'm so ready for camp.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

Ill be going to camp a lot

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=Bucket;1007210]Ill be going to camp a lot[/quote]

Its down in Richmond. I'm currently in Richmond and drove by it yesterday. There is no parking compared to ashburn. And depending on where you find parking you may be in the ghetto/crappy neighborhoods quickly. Its not nice and spacious like Ashburn (or classy).

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

C

Say it with me now:

"Not enough big bodies."

Football is a war of attrition that is won in the trenches.

We got no linemen on either side of the ball if we count Jenkins as an OLB.

In my book that's a 300 pound problem.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;1007214]C

Say it with me now:

"Not enough big bodies."

Football is a war of attrition that is won in the trenches.

[B]We got no linemen on either side of the ball if we count Jenkins as an OLB. [/B]

In my book that's a 300 pound problem.[/quote]

Point being???

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;1007214]C

Say it with me now:

"Not enough big bodies."

Football is a war of attrition that is won in the trenches.

We got no linemen on either side of the ball if we count Jenkins as an OLB.

In my book that's a 300 pound problem.[/quote]

Was this the franchise's first draft ever?

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1007217]Was this the franchise's first draft ever?[/quote]

First and only by the sounds of it.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;1007214]C

Say it with me now:

"Not enough big bodies."

Football is a war of attrition that is won in the trenches.

We got no linemen on either side of the ball if we count Jenkins as an OLB.

In my book that's a 300 pound problem.[/quote]

I understand what you're saying, but we have a lot of great OLineman and depth and we have a very solid DL. Could we upgrade? Sure, but from where we were picking and what needs we had, picking OL and DL wasn't a priority and we would have just been picking them for need instead of value and need.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1007169]Too soon still for a openly Vegan player? <sigh>[/quote]

Well a Vegan would obviously not have the stamina to make it through 60 minutes...you know, malnourished. :D

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;1007214]C

Say it with me now:

"Not enough big bodies."

Football is a war of attrition that is won in the trenches.

We got no linemen on either side of the ball if we count Jenkins as an OLB.

In my book that's a 300 pound problem.[/quote]

Cute post.

Our rostered linemen:

C - Montgomery
G - Boyle, Chester, Gettis, Hurt, LeRibeus, Lichtensteiger (G/C)
T - Williams, Polumbus, Pashos, Trueblood, Compton


That's 12 total, at least 10 or 11 capable linemen including one elite LT in Trent Williams.

Also, last year, these guys helped us towards the #1 rushing offense in the NFL and the 5th-ranked offense overall.

We did exactly what we needed to do this draft...secondary, secondary and more secondary. Wit the other picks, we added some RBs since we really only have 2 healthy RBs on the team and a depth problem. Jordan Reed was too good to pass up and will make this offense even more dangerous.

We didn't need to draft linemen. Once the first few rounds and the legitimate starting-caliber RTs were gone, there's no need to waste a pick on O-line depth. We have plenty of young reserves in LeRibeus, Compton, Hurt, Gettis.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

I fail to see how drafting a bunch of lineman would have helped us any this year. Outside of RT are there any other line positions up for grabs on either side of the ball??

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;1007214]C

Say it with me now:

"Not enough big bodies."

Football is a war of attrition that is won in the trenches.

We got no linemen on either side of the ball if we count Jenkins as an OLB.

In my book that's a 300 pound problem.[/quote]

I get your point, but I think you got to think in context of how we have been building this team. Right Tackle is a concern and we need someone to step up there, but outside of that on both sides of the Line I feel rather confident with our bunch.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

A few more # announcements:

[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img94/4862/haydenmckenzieusatoday.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/rainmaker17/cowboys.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1007169]Too soon still for a openly Vegan player? <sigh>[/quote]

Tony Gonzalez

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

And Adrian Foster

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=GridIron26;1007310]And Adrian Foster[/quote]

Never heard of her.


Arian Foster?

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

Whos the Amish guy on the left?

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1007314]Never heard of her.


Arian Foster?[/quote]

:doh: Arian it is

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=Mattyk;1007251]I fail to see how drafting a bunch of lineman would have helped us any this year. Outside of RT are there any other line positions up for grabs on either side of the ball??[/quote]

Do the Giants and Ravens have good defensive lines?

Yes.

But they draft the big boys every year.

Hey, I'm not saying we shouldn't have drafted any DB's, but for a draft that's deep along the defensive line we got none. Look at us last year. Front seven was supposed to be the strength of the team and then Orakpo and Carriker go down and it's middling. The defense played way over it's head during the win streak and everyone likes to focus on how bad our secondary was. But hey, we had the third most picks in the league and the 23rd most sacks. I'm a believer that you can do smoke and mirrors in the secondary but you can't fake winning at the point of attack.

Not having a first round pick or money to spend on FA's meant this team was going to have some holes no matter what. With Griffin in the fold the only thing I would have truly cared about shoring up was OL depth and the front seven. Secondary and skill players be damned I want a team that wins up front. Obviously, the ideal is to have both but we went all in on small players and I can't fall in love with the strategy.

Meanwhile you guys are all giving out B's and A's. In my mind there is no such thing as getting an A in the draft with no first round pick and ZERO offensive or defensive linemen. Period.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;1007478]Do the Giants and Ravens have good defensive lines?

Yes.

But they draft the big boys every year.

Hey, I'm not saying we shouldn't have drafted any DB's, but for a draft that's deep along the defensive line we got none. Look at us last year. Front seven was supposed to be the strength of the team and then Orakpo and Carriker go down and it's middling. The defense played way over it's head during the win streak and everyone likes to focus on how bad our secondary was. But hey, we had the third most picks in the league and the 23rd most sacks. I'm a believer that you can do smoke and mirrors in the secondary but you can't fake winning at the point of attack.

Not having a first round pick or money to spend on FA's meant this team was going to have some holes no matter what. With Griffin in the fold the only thing I would have truly cared about shoring up was OL depth and the front seven. Secondary and skill players be damned I want a team that wins up front. Obviously, the ideal is to have both but we went all in on small players and I can't fall in love with the strategy.

Meanwhile you guys are all giving out B's and A's. In my mind there is no such thing as getting an A in the draft with no first round pick and ZERO offensive or defensive linemen. Period.[/quote]

The Giants have a good defensive line because they specifically spend first-round picks on the DL. We could not do that this year.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;1007478]Do the Giants and Ravens have good defensive lines?

Yes.

But they draft the big boys every year.

Hey, I'm not saying we shouldn't have drafted any DB's, but for a draft that's deep along the defensive line we got none. Look at us last year. Front seven was supposed to be the strength of the team and then Orakpo and Carriker go down and it's middling. The defense played way over it's head during the win streak and everyone likes to focus on how bad our secondary was. But hey, we had the third most picks in the league and the 23rd most sacks. I'm a believer that you can do smoke and mirrors in the secondary but you can't fake winning at the point of attack.

Not having a first round pick or money to spend on FA's meant this team was going to have some holes no matter what. With Griffin in the fold the only thing I would have truly cared about shoring up was OL depth and the front seven. Secondary and skill players be damned I want a team that wins up front. Obviously, the ideal is to have both but we went all in on small players and I can't fall in love with the strategy.

Meanwhile you guys are all giving out B's and A's. In my mind there is no such thing as getting an A in the draft with no first round pick and ZERO offensive or defensive linemen. Period.[/quote]

Good for the Ravens and Giants.

We obviously felt the secondary needed more help and considering how deep of a draft it was there this was the perfect year to stock up. This is also the first year that Shanahan hasn't taken an OL here. Our picks reflected our needs pretty well. I don't recall any draft gurus pointing out any glaring needs on the d-line and outside of right tackle none on the OL either.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1007316]Whos the Amish guy on the left?[/quote]

The 2nd/3rd round Center the Cowboys picked with their first round pick.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

You don't have to have glaring needs to add players to your football team. Look at Seattle signing Winfield, look at Denver adding Welker. I would not be surprised at all if the TE or one of the RB's we took turns into the best player for us from this draft. Just because we don't [I]need[/I] big bodies [I]right now[/I] doesn't mean we shouldn't draft them. On the contrary. We should draft them every year without fail.

The areas that I would have addressed this offseason were OL, DL, LB and DB. We got some DB's, lost Lorenzo Alexander and added one, yes that's one, linebacker in the draft. Pretty much every team in the league added players to their front sevens and offensive lines and we stood pat. In my eyes, that's a problem.

It's not what I would have done with limited resources. My plan would have been to focus on winning the trenches now that we have a QB. I would have been fine with it if we added more linebackers than we did. Any offseason that sees no depth or talent added to OL, DL [I]and[/I] LB is a failure in my book. The draft contributed to that.

Yeah, we added some nice players too. And we needed those DB's badly.

So it's a C, not a D or an F.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;1007492]You don't have to have glaring needs to add players to your football team. Look at Seattle signing Winfield, look at Denver adding Welker. I would not be surprised at all if the TE or one of the RB's we took turns into the best player for us from this draft. Just because we don't [I]need[/I] big bodies [I]right now[/I] doesn't mean we shouldn't draft them. On the contrary. We should draft them every year without fail.

The areas that I would have addressed this offseason were OL, DL, LB and DB. We got some DB's, lost Lorenzo Alexander and added one, yes that's one, linebacker in the draft. Pretty much every team in the league added players to their front sevens and offensive lines and we stood pat. In my eyes, that's a problem.

It's not what I would have done with limited resources. My plan would have been to focus on winning the trenches now that we have a QB. I would have been fine with it if we added more linebackers than we did. Any offseason that sees no depth or talent added to OL, DL [I]and[/I] LB is a failure in my book. The draft contributed to that.

Yeah, we added some nice players too. And we needed those DB's badly.

So it's a C, not a D or an F.[/quote]

The draft isn't the only way to add talent.

We have signed lineman on both sides as well as linebackers. And we drafted a LB.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1007316]Whos the Amish guy on the left?[/quote]


That's Amos Frederick.

[quote=Ruhskins;1007490]The 2nd/3rd round Center the Cowboys picked with their first round pick.[/quote]


Ha...that's him? Good job, Jerry.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

Unless the coaches know somebody is ready to step up, hope we address right tackle in free agency. Hopefully not an old or expensive guy ( fat chance right?).

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;1007492]You don't have to have glaring needs to add players to your football team. Look at Seattle signing Winfield, look at Denver adding Welker. I would not be surprised at all if the TE or one of the RB's we took turns into the best player for us from this draft. Just because we don't [I]need[/I] big bodies [I]right now[/I] doesn't mean we shouldn't draft them. On the contrary. We should draft them every year without fail.

The areas that I would have addressed this offseason were OL, DL, LB and DB. We got some DB's, lost Lorenzo Alexander and added one, yes that's one, linebacker in the draft. Pretty much every team in the league added players to their front sevens and offensive lines and we stood pat. In my eyes, that's a problem.

It's not what I would have done with limited resources. My plan would have been to focus on winning the trenches now that we have a QB. I would have been fine with it if we added more linebackers than we did. Any offseason that sees no depth or talent added to OL, DL [I]and[/I] LB is a failure in my book. The draft contributed to that.

Yeah, we added some nice players too. And we needed those DB's badly.

So it's a C, not a D or an F.[/quote]

Ten, I really like your arguement and believe teams have to be built the same way, and I think Shanny agrees with you.

If you look at how he built the team, his plan addressed Oline and DLine first, now he is filling in the rest. Gotta remember how bad we were from a talent standpoint when he took over the team. Dline is the first area he really went after.

I also believe Shanny stuck by his best player available mantra this draft. Rambo, Reed, Jenkins, Thomas picks I think prove that.

Who did you like/or rather have taken?

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;1007478]Do the Giants and Ravens have good defensive lines?

Yes.

But they draft the big boys every year.

Hey, I'm not saying we shouldn't have drafted any DB's, but for a draft that's deep along the defensive line we got none. Look at us last year. Front seven was supposed to be the strength of the team and then Orakpo and Carriker go down and it's middling. The defense played way over it's head during the win streak and everyone likes to focus on how bad our secondary was. But hey, we had the third most picks in the league and the 23rd most sacks. I'm a believer that you can do smoke and mirrors in the secondary but you can't fake winning at the point of attack.

Not having a first round pick or money to spend on FA's meant this team was going to have some holes no matter what. With Griffin in the fold the only thing I would have truly cared about shoring up was OL depth and the front seven. Secondary and skill players be damned I want a team that wins up front. Obviously, the ideal is to have both but we went all in on small players and I can't fall in love with the strategy.

Meanwhile you guys are all giving out B's and A's. In my mind there is no such thing as getting an A in the draft with no first round pick and ZERO offensive or defensive linemen. Period.[/quote]


In 2010-2013 the NYG drafted 11 Linemen(5OL, 6DL), the Skins took 10(6 OL, 4, DL). Source is [url=http://www.pro-footballreference.com] www.pro-footballreference.com [/url].

I don't know that one team has emphasized it more than the other. Now we have been substantially more uneven in the round drafted, but that is a matter of how we have generally been moving back to regain picks in the early years.
NYG Lineman per round: 2 - 1st, 2 - 2nd, 1 ea, 3, 4, 5, 2 - 6th, 2 - 7th.
Skins Lnemen per round: 2 - 1st, 1 - 3rd, 2 -5th, 2 - 6th, 4 - 7th.
Oh and NE, 7 in those 3 years, 4 of those in the 7th round, 1 - 1st, 3rd, and 6th

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

PS pro-footballreference has a great search tool that lets you slice and dice drafts of a team. Basically, I put in "all linemen", but you can do individual positions, or schools, or conferences or mix and match. Pretty nice.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

For comparison purposes, here's what our draft would have looked like if we had taken purely the highest rated non-QB on my board at every pick, no regard for need:

2 (51) - Keenan Allen, WR, Cal
3 (85) - Stedman Bailey, WR, West Virginia
4 (119) - Jesse Williams, DT, Alabama
5 (154) - Jordan Poyer, CB, Oregon State
5 (162) - Andre Ellington, RB, Clemson
6 (191) - Brandon Jenkins, OLB, Florida State*
7 (228) - Phillip Thomas, S, Fresno State*

*Obviously these guys are only still available b/c we're redrafting the Redskins. Cierre Wood, RB, ND and Tony Jefferson, S, OU were my top undrafted players.

I guess the takeaways is that there was no way to get OL at good value, although there were DL to be had at good value (and we arguably got one of the best values there). And we were going to get DBs anyway. The draft was too deep in the secondary to not get DBs at BPA type value.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1007508]For comparison purposes, here's what our draft would have looked like if we had taken purely the highest rated non-QB on my board at every pick, no regard for need:

2 (51) - Keenan Allen, WR, Cal
3 (85) - Stedman Bailey, WR, West Virginia
4 (119) - Jesse Williams, DT, Alabama
5 (154) - Jordan Poyer, CB, Oregon State
5 (162) - Andre Ellington, RB, Clemson
6 (191) - Brandon Jenkins, OLB, Florida State*
7 (228) - Phillip Thomas, S, Fresno State*

*Obviously these guys are only still available b/c we're redrafting the Redskins. Cierre Wood, RB, ND and Tony Jefferson, S, OU were my top undrafted players.

I guess the takeaways is that there was no way to get OL at good value, although there were DL to be had at good value (and we arguably got one of the best values there). And we were going to get DBs anyway. The draft was too deep in the secondary to not get DBs at BPA type value.[/quote]

This makes zero sense. There was absolutely no guarantee that Thomas and Jenkins would fall to us a round or many rounds later. We got Thomas in the fourth and Jenkins in the 5th.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;1007511]This makes zero sense. There was absolutely no guarantee that Thomas and Jenkins would fall to us a round or many rounds later. We got Thomas in the fourth and Jenkins in the 5th.[/quote]Which is why I gave you the next two up.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1007512]Which is why I gave you the next two up.[/quote]

who are the next two up, because you're still not making sense

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=Mattyk;1007251]I fail to see how drafting a bunch of lineman would have helped us any this year. Outside of RT are there any other line positions up for grabs on either side of the ball??[/quote]

It only makes sense to those who still believe A) football is a game of 3 yards and a cloud of dust and B) the only way to protect a QB is to have a dozen 300 lb. men up front.

The game has evolved, unfortunately quite a few fans haven't evolved with it

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

we all know the whole point of zone blocking is that it let's you go cheap on the OL right? you take small faster guys that other teams pass over, giving you higher talent in lower rounds (than average) without needing to use high picks or big money on a ton of OL guys.

the 3-4 let's you shift the expense (picks and money) of your DE's onto your pass rushing OLBs instead (though they're harder to find, DEs make more per sack than OLBs in general, so 3-4 pass rushing OLBs end up at around what a 4-3 DEs would cost due to rarity).

we've got the people for our systems now. our RT sucks, but everyone else is fine. last year we had some bad injuries on the pass rushing front, but we signed merling, tapp, and drafted a guy to help with that rotation (and a bunch of OL guys). we didn't have much in the way of money to sign guys, and we had more pressing issues in the draft. I don't think a 3rd round OT or 7th round OG would have helped us any. the OLB and rambo were picked WAY below value, so you can't swap those out. thomas was below value too, as was the TE we got (which is the only pick that really could have been spent differently. Maybe amerson wasn't the DB of choice, but all the good corners were going to be gone by our pick in round 3, so it was a now or never choice).

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

oh yeah, we signed the best UDFA OT as well. it's not like we didn't do anything. we actually got a lot of bodies with what we had to work with.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1007528]It only makes sense to those who still believe A) football is a game of 3 yards and a cloud of dust and B) the only way to protect a QB is to have a dozen 300 lb. men up front.

The game has evolved, unfortunately quite a few fans haven't evolved with it[/quote]

ehh, yeah the game has evolved for sure. Still gotta control that line of scrimmage.