Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;1114879]I hear "Bullets" is available.......[/QUOTE]
Maybe we can use the Ravens and Baltimore could use Bullets. [emoji14]

Sent from my S6 Edge

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

Nice!
It would seem more consistent with the city.....of late

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

I still think Snyder should just have a team with no name, just call it Washington.

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[url=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/redskin]Redskin | Define Redskin at Dictionary.com[/url]
[url=http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/redskin]redskin: definition of redskin in Oxford dictionary (American English) (US)[/url]

MW and oxford dictionaries both define it as racist/taboo/derogatory, for what it's worth.

and the only context is definitely not as an NFL team name. we're not the the washington borknoggers. again you may think it's silly and I'm not pushing for a name change, but it is what it is.

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[URL="http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2013/12/18/redskins_the_debate_over_the_washington_football_team_s_name_incorrectly.html"]Redskins: The debate over the Washington football team's name incorrectly invokes history.[/URL]



In 2005, the [B]Indian language scholar Ives Goddard of the Smithsonian[/B] Institution published a remarkable and consequential study of redskin's early history. His findings shifted the dates for the word's first appearance in print by more than a century and shed an awkward light on the contemporary debate. Goddard found, in summary, that "the actual origin of the word is entirely benign."

Redskin, he learned, had not emerged first in English or any European language. The English term, in fact, derived from Native American phrases involving the color red in combination with terms for flesh, skin, and man. These phrases were part of a racial vocabulary that Indians often used to designate themselves in opposition to others whom they (like the Europeans) called black, white, and so on.

But the language into which those terms for Indians were first translated was French. The tribes among whom the proto forms of redskin first appeared lived in the area of the upper Mississippi River called Illinois country. Their extensive contact with French-speaking colonists, before the French pulled out of North America, led to these phrases being translated, in the 1760s, more or less literally as peau-rouge and only then into English as redskin. It bears mentioning that many such translators were mixed-blood Indians.

[URL="http://anthropology.si.edu/goddard/"]Ives Goddard / Home Page[/URL]

Worth spending a few minutes reading.......both
Has....actual educational worth rather than the media driven nonsense, and he addresses some of that.

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[quote=Hog1;1114888][URL="http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2013/12/18/redskins_the_debate_over_the_washington_football_team_s_name_incorrectly.html"]Redskins: The debate over the Washington football team's name incorrectly invokes history.[/URL]



In 2005, the [B]Indian language scholar Ives Goddard of the Smithsonian[/B] Institution published a remarkable and consequential study of redskin's early history. His findings shifted the dates for the word's first appearance in print by more than a century and shed an awkward light on the contemporary debate. Goddard found, in summary, that "the actual origin of the word is entirely benign."

Redskin, he learned, had not emerged first in English or any European language. The English term, in fact, derived from Native American phrases involving the color red in combination with terms for flesh, skin, and man. These phrases were part of a racial vocabulary that Indians often used to designate themselves in opposition to others whom they (like the Europeans) called black, white, and so on.

But the language into which those terms for Indians were first translated was French. The tribes among whom the proto forms of redskin first appeared lived in the area of the upper Mississippi River called Illinois country. Their extensive contact with French-speaking colonists, before the French pulled out of North America, led to these phrases being translated, in the 1760s, more or less literally as peau-rouge and only then into English as redskin. It bears mentioning that many such translators were mixed-blood Indians.

[URL="http://anthropology.si.edu/goddard/"]Ives Goddard / Home Page[/URL]

Worth spending a few minutes reading.......both
Has....actual educational worth rather than the media driven nonsense, and he addresses some of that.[/quote]Yep. Good read. It's been around, and largely ignored in the debate, because it doesn't back the narrative of the name being "racist".

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1114894]Yep. Good read. It's been around, and largely ignored in the debate, because it doesn't back the narrative of the name being "racist".[/quote]


.......and then you have things like this .



[url=http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a29318/redskin-name-update/]Update: Yes, A 'Redskin' Does, In Fact, Mean the Scalped Head of a Native American, Sold, Like a Pelt, for Cash[/url]

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

i really dont have much say either way in this debate. i see both sides points.

Has anyone ever been wearing redskins gear and had someone ask you about the name?

Wearing skins gear in the DMV is done without any second thought.

assume you are on a cross country road trip - would you have second thoughts about wearing skins gear in oklahoma or a reserve along the highway where they sell stuff?

i think i would take my hat off. which makes me kinda think if i wouldnt wear skins gear in front of a NA, why would i wear it period?

Im punting on the issue personally.

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1114882]I still think Snyder should just have a team with no name, just call it Washington.[/quote]

I agree. Drop the name Redskins and call them Washington or Washington Football and keep the logo and uniforms the same.

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[QUOTE=over the mountain;1114896]i really dont have much say either way in this debate. i see both sides points.



Has anyone ever been wearing redskins gear and had someone ask you about the name?



Wearing skins gear in the DMV is done without any second thought.



assume you are on a cross country road trip - would you have second thoughts about wearing skins gear in oklahoma or a reserve along the highway where they sell stuff?



i think i would take my hat off. which makes me kinda think if i wouldnt wear skins gear in front of a NA, why would i wear it period?



Im punting on the issue personally.[/QUOTE]


The only feedback I've experienced personally is in support of the name.

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[quote=Giantone;1114895].......and then you have things like this .



[URL="http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a29318/redskin-name-update/"]Update: Yes, A 'Redskin' Does, In Fact, Mean the Scalped Head of a Native American, Sold, Like a Pelt, for Cash[/URL][/quote]

This argument is...benign. It was already debunked by Goddard. This dude is just looking for his day in the sun....15 minutes of fame.....etc.
He refers to a term that may (and according to Goddard...Not used) been last used 150 years ago? 200?
Get serious....Gay used to mean.....Happy
Maybe we want to be more current than a century or 2?. You have a gross minority of individuals making the decisions as always for the rest of us.
No thanx.......

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

I have always been very much against changing the name, I grew up loving almost everything about the team. When the name issue started I hated the idea of a name change.
The team, the game, the player uniforms and helmets, and especially the players and coaches all representing the Washington area. The area I was born and raised in is what it is about for me. They could have had any other reasonable name and I still would have been a fan.
I, as probably most of you, did not become a fan because of the name.
There is portion of society that dislike the team name and dislike Dan Snyder. Lord knows DS has given all of us reason to not like him at times. There will come a day DS will not be the owner anymore. Nothing is forever .......and maybe the name should not be treated as some kind of sacred object. It is just a game.

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I would be more upset about loosing HTTR and singing after TDs. Which brings me to the question of when your main motto is Hail to the ________ (fill in the blank with any word -even perjuratives like the n word) how does that show any intention of being disparaging.

I am ok if the name changes but it will just be a reflection of a US culture that has lost the ability to view the world with varied and disparate perspectives. That is a sad thing .

Sent from my S6 Edge

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

Wonder if the name "Nation" would fly. Would work on several levels.

Dan should limit all the distractions he can to get this thing turned around. Owners set the conditions.

If the times change, change with them

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I'm going to be sick.........

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[quote=Giantone;1114895].......and then you have things like this .



[url=http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a29318/redskin-name-update/]Update: Yes, A 'Redskin' Does, In Fact, Mean the Scalped Head of a Native American, Sold, Like a Pelt, for Cash[/url][/quote]

Just a theory, but is it at all possible that in some areas of this country, the term Redskin can evoke harsh feelings, but that in some other areas the term Redskin can be used as one of pride? Why does it have to be as black and white as "everybody hates it" or "nobody hates it?" Why do reservations still use the name for their high school team? Clearly they must be self-hating American Indians /sarcasm.

The modus operandi these days seems to be "get outraged over something insignificant, like a flag, or a name, or even a road (see the Jefferson Davis Highway outrage) instead of focusing on the bigger issue at hand, which is "how does racism still survive in today's society." None of those things are creating racists. Racist parents passing on their beliefs to their children are, and racial incidents where someone attacks someone else because of the color of their skin are. But we can't fix those problems as easily as we can chant "remove the <offending inanimate object>." I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the majority of Americans always opt for the easy route. The descent into a mediocre nation continues.

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

Nice....Mooby.
Give the parents a little love here. Hate mongering is commonplace today and profitable as well I am sure. Idiot twins Reverend Al and Jesse have both made careers with it. Regretfully this type of....trash on every side of the fence seems to get the most of the play in the media

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1114910]I would be more upset about loosing HTTR and singing after TDs. Which brings me to the question of when your main motto is Hail to the ________ (fill in the blank with any word -even perjuratives like the n word) how does that show any intention of being disparaging.
[/quote]

you mean the song with the original lyrics:
"Scalp 'em, swamp 'um—We will take 'um big score
Read 'um, Weep 'um,"

or that use to say fight for old dixie (1959-1961).


again, just devil's advocate.

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

You mean like 1961 as in 55 years ago?

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[quote=Giantone;1114895].......and then you have things like this .



[url=http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a29318/redskin-name-update/]Update: Yes, A 'Redskin' Does, In Fact, Mean the Scalped Head of a Native American, Sold, Like a Pelt, for Cash[/url][/quote]Yes, another article titled that "redskins" has to do with scalps or skins, when the actual historical document cited doesn't refer to the name "redskins" in that way at all. I think you posted another article a while back that also claimed redskins referred to scalps, when the actual historical document cited in the same article did not. Lol.

Thank you, giantone, for providing yet another example of just how stupid the anti-"redskin" people are.

I mean, what is the deal with these people? How do you take a phrase "The State reward for dead Indians has been increased to $200 for every red-skin sent to Purgatory. This sum is more than the dead bodies of all the Indians east of the Red River are worth.", and think that it refers to scalps rather than Indians? :laughing2

Just in case you didn't get it, giantone, here's an example of reading comprehension. Which phrase makes the most sense to you?

"$200 for every scalp sent to purgatory"

or

"$200 for every Indian sent to purgatory"

I hope to heaven you realized how the word "redskin"was used, giantone. I would think any middle-schooler could do so. I mean, I'm not catholic, but I think people get sent to purgatory, not just their hair. :twocents:

As to the writers of the article, their error has been posted in the comments below on that webpage. And at the point where one side of a debate has to lie and twist words around so much, isn't it fair to say the anti-redskin side has lost the debate conclusively? At least as far as history and logic go.

Thanks again for another example of anti-redskin people failing reading comprehension, giantone. :food-smil

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[IMG]https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_1484w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2014/10/22/Local/Images/redskins121414014014.jpg?uuid=EzcwIFo0EeSdbHVqIp2LGA[/IMG]

[IMG]https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_742w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2014/10/29/Local-Enterprise/Images/redskins011414013832_2.jpg?uuid=ArcvvF-rEeSR912JtejCUQ[/IMG]

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/in-arizona-a-navajo-high-school-emerges-as-a-defender-of-the-washington-redskins/2014/10/26/dcfc773a-592b-11e4-8264-deed989ae9a2_story.html]In Arizona, a Navajo high school emerges as a defender of the Washington Redskins - The Washington Post[/url]

In the article there is a photo of a water fountain covered up with a sign saying "do not drink" bc the water is contaminated.

the DS is missing any opportunity to get a lot of goodwill by actually helping the reservations with their very real issues. Offering a couple hundred free tickets to a skins v cardinals game in AZ so they can counter protest other NA's protesting the name is see through.


if anything comes of this ... just help the people that need help. [B]lets do a food and toy drive every single home game[/B] and you get a voucher for a free hot dog or something .. or a shirt showing support for NA .. we are talking pennies on the dollar here.

I got some lightly worn suits and baby clothes I could donate. old but good lap top ... . play stations ... coloring books ..... we should be doing this on our own as a fan base.

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[url=http://espn980.com/blogs/chris.php]ESPN 980 - WASHINGTON D.C.[/url]

Chris Russell summing up his 6 years of covering the team. God you talk about depressing...I just pray we will never go through a period like that again.

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[quote=Chico23231;1114939][URL="http://espn980.com/blogs/chris.php"]ESPN 980 - WASHINGTON D.C.[/URL]

Chris Russell summing up his 6 years of covering the team. God you talk about depressing...I just pray we will never go through a period like that again.[/quote]

WOW...Reading that just reminds me that we're basically Oakland east. SM is really the ONLY hope we have when it comes to picking players. Allen and Snyder have long proven they're not capable and incompetent in that department.

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[quote=Chico23231;1114939][url=http://espn980.com/blogs/chris.php]ESPN 980 - WASHINGTON D.C.[/url]

Chris Russell summing up his 6 years of covering the team. God you talk about depressing...I just pray we will never go through a period like that again.[/quote]

I LOATHE chris russell. he is the biggest "i told you so" douche bag there is imo.

the tipping point was when d jax sat out a preseason game in his first year with us for something benign like a sore hammy.

He went on radio to say, his words almost exactly ... "I was the only one who didnt like the desean jackson signing. Let me tell you something, [B]I am always right[/B]. I was right about this to. You dont pay a lot of money to speed guy bc when he gets injured and losses his speed, he has nothing. And they will get injured ...."

The "I always right" comment was soo grating. I think it is fair to say d jax did pretty well last year given the state of the skins offense. Did chris russell ever acknowledge he was wrong . . .

Now I play a game when it comes to chris russell .. i see how many times he pats himself on the back or play revisionist with him on the correct side of history.

in this article:

1 - "2011 brought a work stoppage in the NFL and a conservative approach ([B]welcomed by me[/B]) to trying to win football games."

2 - "It was a bad idea then and it still remains a bad idea. [B]Nobody wanted to listen to me [/B]and my lack of confidence in giving away all of those precious resources." - he does say he wouldnt have given up picks for luck either.

3 - "However, I already knew it was a sour situation and wasn't going to get significantly better, quickly." ... meh, not such a strong "im always right" comment but why interject yourself and your correctness in the first place?


..... not the worst from russell .. i feel kinda bad now.

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1114954]WOW...Reading that just reminds me that we're basically Oakland east. SM is really the ONLY hope we have when it comes to picking players. Allen and Snyder have long proven they're not capable and incompetent in that department.[/quote]

agree. Bruce and Danny really kept screwing up everything even after cerrato was gone.

OTM agree too, Russell is a major league douche bag, but damn what a terrible stretch.

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

What got me about Russell was he said he was going to quit his job if the Redskins signed Jackson. To me that was going overboard and he made it personal. But the thing is he never quit. lol.

Jackson isn't perfect, but he's never been in any trouble with the law, he's never hit a women or anything like that. Yeah he showboats but he also is and has been a pretty productive player. I'm not sure where his total disdain for Jackson came from.

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

Chris Russell still loves jim Haslett.

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[IMG]http://www.prepsportswear.com/school/us/Arizona/Teec_Nos_Pos/Red-Mesa-High-School-Redskins.aspx?schoolid=74096[/IMG][quote=over the mountain;1114934][IMG]https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_1484w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2014/10/22/Local/Images/redskins121414014014.jpg?uuid=EzcwIFo0EeSdbHVqIp2LGA[/IMG]

[IMG]https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_742w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2014/10/29/Local-Enterprise/Images/redskins011414013832_2.jpg?uuid=ArcvvF-rEeSR912JtejCUQ[/IMG]

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/in-arizona-a-navajo-high-school-emerges-as-a-defender-of-the-washington-redskins/2014/10/26/dcfc773a-592b-11e4-8264-deed989ae9a2_story.html"]In Arizona, a Navajo high school emerges as a defender of the Washington Redskins - The Washington Post[/URL]

In the article there is a photo of a water fountain covered up with a sign saying "do not drink" bc the water is contaminated.

the DS is missing any opportunity to get a lot of goodwill by actually helping the reservations with their very real issues. Offering a couple hundred free tickets to a skins v cardinals game in AZ so they can counter protest other NA's protesting the name is see through.


if anything comes of this ... just help the people that need help. [B]lets do a food and toy drive every single home game[/B] and you get a voucher for a free hot dog or something .. or a shirt showing support for NA .. we are talking pennies on the dollar here.

I got some lightly worn suits and baby clothes I could donate. old but good lap top ... . play stations ... coloring books ..... we should be doing this on our own as a fan base.[/quote]

[url=http://www.prepsportswear.com/school/us/Arizona/Teec_Nos_Pos/Red-Mesa-High-School-Redskins.aspx?schoolid=74096]Red Mesa High School Redskins Apparel Store | Prep Sportswear[/url]

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1114960]What got me about Russell was he said he was going to quit his job if the Redskins signed Jackson. To me that was going overboard and he made it personal. But the thing is he never quit. lol.

Jackson isn't perfect, but he's never been in any trouble with the law, he's never hit a women or anything like that. Yeah he showboats but he also is and has been a pretty productive player. I'm not sure where his total disdain for Jackson came from.[/quote]

We know where it came from, the same place all other unnecessary disdain for a professional athlete that looks like DeSean Jackson

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

[quote=Hog1;1115004][IMG]http://www.prepsportswear.com/school/us/Arizona/Teec_Nos_Pos/Red-Mesa-High-School-Redskins.aspx?schoolid=74096[/IMG]

[url=http://www.prepsportswear.com/school/us/Arizona/Teec_Nos_Pos/Red-Mesa-High-School-Redskins.aspx?schoolid=74096]Red Mesa High School Redskins Apparel Store | Prep Sportswear[/url][/quote]

really good thinking Hog but after combing the site, it doesnt look like the actual school would see a dime of the money.

"Prep Sportswear® launched in 2003 as the flagship brand of Sportswear Inc., with over one million online school and team stores, Prep Sportswear is a direct to consumer e-commerce provider of print-on-demand, customizable apparel serving consumers, media properties, and school and collegiate athletic departments."

Re: Redskins Off Season things.
 

THAT....blows
Thanx for taking car of me on that deal OTM