Re: Election Day
 

but nope, no winning. You all can keep harping on the histrionics of Trump, but if half of these same accomplishments had occurred under Pres Obama in ANY of his years as President (they didn't) some of you would have been lining up a constitutional amendment allowing him to serve another term.

Re: Election Day
 

Winning is a very subjective term apparently. His list of losses is tremendous, fantastic, the best.

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1182938]but nope, no winning. You all can keep harping on the histrionics of Trump, but if half of these same accomplishments had occurred under Pres Obama in ANY of his years as President (they didn't) some of you would have been lining up a constitutional amendment allowing him to serve another term.[/quote]




Honestly except for the boarder crossing and even that is suspect.Trump is not responsible for anything except rolling back all Obama executive orders and wrecking the environment.

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=MTK;1182942]Winning is a very subjective term apparently. His list of losses is tremendous, fantastic, the best.[/quote]

Go ahead and list them, somehow I doubt we will see them the same way.

By the way, the first list isn't subjective at all, if those items were listed under President Obama, or god forbid Hillary Clinton, then they would be hailed as good to great accomplishments. The fact that not even basic credit can be given where it is due is a strong reason why effective dialogue is a rarity these days.

Re: Election Day
 

Failed or unfulfilled so far

The wall
Lock her up
Travel ban
Repeal and replace Obamacare
Pull out of or renegotiate NAFTA
Drain the swamp
Apply tariffs to China and label them a currency manipulator
No vacations/time off
Ditch Nato
Bring back jobs from overseas
Rebuild infrastructure
Fix crime in Chicago

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=Giantone;1182944]Honestly except for the boarder crossing and even that is suspect.Trump is not responsible for anything except rolling back all Obama executive orders and wrecking the environment.[/quote]

Using our military in coordination with middle eastern allies without telegraphing our every move is a direct reason for the ISIS rollback in Iraq and Syria. That was a change attributable to Trump's military commanders and his policies.

The growth is a direct result of corporations and small companies looking to his pledges of rolling back regulations and taxes.

The border decrease is likely due to a tougher enforcement in the US as well as at the border.

Pretty sure acknowledging Jerusalem as Israel's capital, putting Neil Gorsuch on the bench, pulling out of the TPP and Paris accords all would not of happened in an HC administration, and as I said, as a Trump voter, I consider them winning and keeping his promises. I get that the other commentators here didn't vote for him, and don't see that as "winning".

But Matty's comment was still waiting for the winning. I am saying IF a person can open their eyes and see the discussion from another point of view, then there is winning going on. But if a mind is to narrow and focused on the petty mainstream media BS, then the person doesn't want to see the winning, and they won't see it no matter how many lists or facts are presented. Because ultimately the only winning that the that person can imagine is Trump being impeached, and that is not going to happen.

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1182947]Using our military in coordination with middle eastern allies without telegraphing our every move is a direct reason for the ISIS rollback in Iraq and Syria. That was a change attributable to Trump's military commanders and his policies.

The growth is a direct result of corporations and small companies looking to his pledges of rolling back regulations and taxes.

The border decrease is likely due to a tougher enforcement in the US as well as at the border.

Pretty sure acknowledging Jerusalem as Israel's capital, putting Neil Gorsuch on the bench, pulling out of the TPP and Paris accords all would not of happened in an HC administration, and as I said, as a Trump voter, I consider them winning and keeping his promises. I get that the other commentators here didn't vote for him, and don't see that as "winning".

But Matty's comment was still waiting for the winning. I am saying IF a person can open their eyes and see the discussion from another point of view, then there is winning going on. But if a mind is to narrow and focused on the petty mainstream media BS, then the person doesn't want to see the winning, and they won't see it no matter how many lists or facts are presented. [B]Because ultimately the only winning that the that person can imagine is Trump being impeached, and that is not going to happen[/B].[/quote]

Just curious, let's say Mueller keeps going up the ladder, with Ivanka/Kushner indicted, and then finally ol' boy himself indicted, are you going to claim the investigation is biased due to the political leanings of the investigators, or are you simply going to accept they have enough evidence to bring charges? This whole thing is worthless if they don't have evidence.

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=MTK;1182946]Failed or unfulfilled so far

The wall
Lock her up
Travel ban
Repeal and replace Obamacare
Pull out of or renegotiate NAFTA
Drain the swamp
Apply tariffs to China and label them a currency manipulator
No vacations/time off
Ditch Nato
Bring back jobs from overseas
Rebuild infrastructure
Fix crime in Chicago[/quote][LIST][*]The wall is ongoing, a competitive bidding is in place, and I would predict that DACA and the wall will go hand in hand in the next budget. [*]The travel ban is in place per the Supreme Court[*]Drain the swamp - what do you think the Corker retirement, the Flake retirement etc is all about. The swamp is republican as much as it is democrat. [*]Bringing jobs back - let's see the net effect of a better tax climate, and less regulations. Right now Politifact has this at half true, but that's with little legislative help from congress[*]Rebuild Infrastructure - let him have his first full budget ok?[*]Renegotiate NAFTA - [URL="http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1410/renegotiate-nafta/"]they are having on going talks[/URL] [quote]Pending results, Trump's promise to renegotiate the agreement remains In the Works.[/quote][*] Ditch Nato - Actually he said make NATO pay their fair share, and that is a valid goal that even CNN says is happening: [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/29/politics/nato-members-increase-defense-spending/index.html"]NATO members to increase defense spending[/URL][*]Lock her up, Fix crime in Chicago - Those both would be pie in the sky winning. [*]no vacations - With all the winning I have shown he has accomplished the man can play golf every weekend, may the scores be ever in his favor. [*]Repeal Obamacare - he has signed some executive acts but the failure here is on the Republican swamp (looking at McCain here) who lied repeatedly to their constituents. Trump certainly twisted every arm he could to try to make it happen.[/LIST]
Like I said we see it differently

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=mooby;1182949]Just curious, let's say Mueller keeps going up the ladder, with Ivanka/Kushner indicted, and then finally ol' boy himself indicted, are you going to claim the investigation is biased due to the political leanings of the investigators, or are you simply going to accept they have enough evidence to bring charges? This whole thing is worthless if they don't have evidence.[/quote]

So far it seems pretty thin - even speculative and I generally think it is politically motivated more then evidentially based. And if it does come out that the FISA warrants were obtained by a politically charged false document like the Steel Dossier, than yes I will look at it as "the revenge of the Swamp".

BUT if evidence shows true criminal malice and behaviour in some way related to tampering with the election then, I will believe it. It won't be because CNN says so, but if the Supreme Court hears the case and upholds the facts, OR a Republican majority in the House of Representatives votes to impeach, then yes I will accept that

Re: Election Day
 

Haven't heard a sniff of what his infrastructure plan is. As I said my list was failed or [I]unfulfilled[/I] so far so I'm definitely eagerly waiting on that.

DACA should be a stand alone bill IMO, not crowbarred in to the crock of shit wall.

Not sure that draining the swamp by filling it with Goldman Sachs alum and making it the richest cabinet ever was really what people thought they were voting for. But hey it sure sounded catchy.

At least his golf game is sharp. It better be.

[quote]"If I win I may never see my property -- I may never see these places again," Trump said at an August 2016 event. "But because I'm going to be working for you, I'm not going to have time to go golfing, believe me. Believe me. Believe me, folks."[/quote]

[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/Rhhr8D5mKSX7O/giphy.gif[/IMG]

Re: Election Day
 

I think the biggest failure of trump is he unwillingness to attempt to bring folks together while clearly explaining policies positions and benefits of these positions. He’s had opportunities to do that as well. The Charlottesville response was really terrible

Re: Election Day
 

This reminds me, is he taking a salary? I do recall him promising that as well.

Re: Election Day
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;1182960]This reminds me, is he taking a salary? I do recall him promising that as well.[/QUOTE]According to politifact he has donated all of his salary so far.

[url]http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1341/take-no-salary/[/url]

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1182961]According to politifact he has donated all of his salary so far.

[url=http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1341/take-no-salary/]Trump-O-Meter: Take no salary | PolitiFact[/url][/quote]

He has all so made ten times his salary just by inflating the dues at his golf clubs and resorts.


[url=http://www.miamiherald.com/latest-news/article159988504.html]President Donald Trump earns millions of dollars in fees from his club's new members | Miami Herald[/url]

Re: Election Day
 

[url]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2017/01/20/how-barack-obama-has-made-20-million-since-arriving-in-washington/amp/&ved=0ahUKEwjis-fRo4PYAhVBB8AKHXypDzQQFghbMAs&usg=AOvVaw3b8dw3YzE8wvEqK42je1Dd&ampcf=1[/url]

Complaining these guys make money from their position is equivalent to arguing a qb's worth against the salary cap. Like em or hate em they are going to make their money.

I still say the simple answer to the question of winning is yes. After 1 year and with a very strong opposition group he has managed his position and the economy to at the least do no harm and from many perspectives done actual positives.

You really want to go deep, even the racial and sexual harassment discussions are winning because for the first time in forever all sides are having frank open discussions and more powerful people are being held accountable then ever before. Are people hearing each other, I dont know but everyone is speaking truth not politically correct garbage.

So MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL Y'ALL OUT THERE

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=Giantone;1182962]He has all so made ten times his salary just by inflating the dues at his golf clubs and resorts.


[URL="http://www.miamiherald.com/latest-news/article159988504.html"]President Donald Trump earns millions of dollars in fees from his club's new members | Miami Herald[/URL][/quote]

You aren't winning if you aren't getting richer due to your Presidency G1.

Me and CR see this differently I bet, on a technicality he's right that Trump hasn't taken a dime for the official salary of President, yet it doesn't matter because his businesses are raking in money from being associated. Don't forget, every time he visits his own golf course, we have to pay for the security detail, and that money goes right into the golf course proffers. It's a brilliant business strategy.

CRed, this Russia investigation means nothing to me unless he can find hard evidence (which does include subordinates like Flynn flipping on the higher ups, which is a mainstay of our criminal justice system, or even a paper trail of some sort). If they got nothing concrete, oh well.

Chico I agree, he only panders to his base and ignores everyone who has any objection. Imagine a world where Congress and him say "gee we'd have no problem passing legislation where we take into account the other side of the aisle, and work together to find a compromise that works for everyone."

Instead you end up with tax reform bills where they buy votes by including certain things for certain senators to get them the bare minimum votes to pass. It's pathetic.

Re: Election Day
 

[QUOTE=mooby;1182965]You aren't winning if you aren't getting richer due to your Presidency G1.

Me and CR see this differently I bet, on a technicality he's right that Trump hasn't taken a dime for the official salary of President, yet it doesn't matter because his businesses are raking in money from being associated. Don't forget, every time he visits his own golf course, we have to pay for the security detail, and that money goes right into the golf course proffers. It's a brilliant business strategy.

CRed, this Russia investigation means nothing to me unless he can find hard evidence (which does include subordinates like Flynn flipping on the higher ups, which is a mainstay of our criminal justice system, or even a paper trail of some sort). If they got nothing concrete, oh well.

Chico I agree, he only panders to his base and ignores everyone who has any objection. Imagine a world where Congress and him say "gee we'd have no problem passing legislation where we take into account the other side of the aisle, and work together to find a compromise that works for everyone."

Instead you end up with tax reform bills where they buy votes by including certain things for certain senators to get them the bare minimum votes to pass. It's pathetic.[/QUOTE]

I don't know that we see it differently, but let's just agree that no president left office poorer then when he entered.

I also agree flipping for lesser pleas is critical, so let's see if something is out there. But with all the leaks in that investigation if there was a whopper, I think it would have started flopping and you can believe CNN has every ear to the ground, every pole in the water trying to land it. Deep investigations take time, I understand that, but depending on where you mark the start of it we are between 8 months and 1 year or even more and no criminal basis has been even alleged in relation to election collusion.

As for one sided bills we started down that road in the Obama/Republican congress years and remember Trump actually did work with Pelosi and Schumer to pass one extension. I am more than willing to put equal part blame on the Senate majority leader and Republican do nothing's in Congress. There are bipartisan deals to be made but if Trump has to pander to his base (me) because the left HATES and the swamp republicans cant govern, then yes it will be one sided laws until the Congress actually works together like adults.

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1182950][LIST][*][B]The wall is ongoing, a competitive bidding is in place, and I would predict that DACA and the wall will go hand in hand in the next budget.[/B] [*]The travel ban is in place per the Supreme Court[*]Drain the swamp - what do you think the Corker retirement, the Flake retirement etc is all about. The swamp is republican as much as it is democrat. [*]Bringing jobs back - let's see the net effect of a better tax climate, and less regulations. Right now Politifact has this at half true, but that's with little legislative help from congress[*]Rebuild Infrastructure - let him have his first full budget ok?[*]Renegotiate NAFTA - [URL="http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1410/renegotiate-nafta/"]they are having on going talks[/URL] [*] Ditch Nato - Actually he said make NATO pay their fair share, and that is a valid goal that even CNN says is happening: [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/29/politics/nato-members-increase-defense-spending/index.html"]NATO members to increase defense spending[/URL][*]Lock her up, Fix crime in Chicago - Those both would be pie in the sky winning. [*]no vacations - With all the winning I have shown he has accomplished the man can play golf every weekend, may the scores be ever in his favor. [*]Repeal Obamacare - he has signed some executive acts but the failure here is on the Republican swamp (looking at McCain here) who lied repeatedly to their constituents. Trump certainly twisted every arm he could to try to make it happen.[/LIST]
Like I said we see it differently[/quote]

I hope the dems don't do their typical BS by asking for little and then getting less during budget talks. A budget won't pass without their support imo they should be asking for a lot more than just protecting the immensely popular DACA.

I do agree with you that he is doing what he wanted to accomplish in many ways, for example as much as I disagree with him pulling out of Paris (why we are the only nationnot there is an embarrassment if you ask me) I think he wants localities and businesses to take the initiative and limit carbon emissions on their own, and not the federal government regulate it, which was the direct response to the U.S. move.

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1182969]I don't know that we see it differently, but let's just agree that no president left office poorer then when he entered.

I also agree flipping for lesser pleas is critical, so let's see if something is out there. But with all the leaks in that investigation if there was a whopper, I think it would have started flopping and you can believe CNN has every ear to the ground, every pole in the water trying to land it. Deep investigations take time, I understand that, but depending on where you mark the start of it we are between 8 months and 1 year or even more and no criminal basis has been even alleged in relation to election collusion.

As for one sided bills we started down that road in the Obama/Republican congress years and remember Trump actually did work with Pelosi and Schumer to pass one extension. I am more than willing to put equal part blame on the Senate majority leader and Republican do nothing's in Congress. There are bipartisan deals to be made but if Trump has to pander to his base (me) because the left HATES and the swamp republicans cant govern, then yes it will be one sided laws until the Congress actually works together like adults.[/quote]

Maybe it's just a pipe dream but I'd like to believe in this age of leaks where nothing's sacred, that maybe something this critically important could stay sealed until it's time to make it public. Time will tell though.

I agree, one sided bills was a problem in the last administration too, but god forbid they decide to change something because precedent has been established. This is more of a Congress issue than a Trump thing, but still, it'd be nice to see more give-and-take on both sides instead of one side always disagreeing with the other.

Re: Election Day
 

[QUOTE=mooby;1182972]Maybe it's just a pipe dream but I'd like to believe in this age of leaks where nothing's sacred, that maybe something this critically important could stay sealed until it's time to make it public. Time will tell though.

I agree, one sided bills was a problem in the last administration too, but god forbid they decide to change something because precedent has been established. This is more of a Congress issue than a Trump thing, but still, it'd be nice to see more give-and-take on both sides instead of one side always disagreeing with the other.[/QUOTE]I had hoped that once the republicans failed at the repeal that Trump would broker a grand compromise, but in my view the lefts hatred (not dislike or disdain blind HATRED) of Trump made that impossible and forced Trump to move more to my side. Fact is I know there needs to be a balance but if the left concedes nothing then I won't either.

A great example exists right in this thread. A potential win win compromise that saves DACA and funds a border wall would be a win both sides could show their constituents, but Mattys response dictates mine. Instead of acknowledging Trump has constituents and they want an effective border wall he uses ad hominem attacks against the wall and proclaims DACA should stand alone. So ok I return the response of -no wall no DACA- simple but we both lose. it doesn't have to be that way, though if the left gets past its hatred and let's Trump be the negotiator he is. He will shake Shumers hand smiling ear to ear on how great the DACA dreamers will be and how magnificent the wall will look when finished, or they can snip and spit like two kids on a recess playground.

Re: Election Day
 

I think the wall/DACA has a logic to both sides grandfathering in those who came here while setting physical impediments to future illegal immigration.

A second option would be to include the wall in any infrastructure bill. But rather than looking at deals the left has made intransigent positions and ridiculed those who see a different path.

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1182976]I think the wall/DACA has a logic to both sides grandfathering in those who came here while setting physical impediments to future illegal immigration.

A second option would be to include the wall in any infrastructure bill. But rather than looking at deals the left has made intransigent positions and ridiculed those who see a different path.[/quote]

So how does that have Mexico pay for the Wall?

Re: Election Day
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1182981]So how does that have Mexico pay for the Wall?[/QUOTE]It doesn't.

But like I said it gives both political sides a win and like any compromise its not 100% what either side wants.

Re: Election Day
 

Just curious, what do you think of him as a person? I've always been independent with a slight left lean, but he just seems like such a terrible fucking person (I felt gross voting for Hillary too).

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1182989]Just curious, what do you think of him as a person? I've always been independent with a slight left lean, but he just seems like such a terrible fucking person (I felt gross voting for Hillary too).[/quote]

Best as I can tell he's the equivalent of the president from the movie Ideocracy. Not much to like about him as morals go.

That said, I believe Hillary to be a ten times worse human, and that's being polite.

It says alot about our country that those two were the headliners on the ballot and none of it is good.

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1183029]Best as I can tell he's the equivalent of the president from the movie Ideocracy. Not much to like about him as morals go.

That said, I believe Hillary to be a ten times worse human, and that's being polite.

It says alot about our country that those two were the headliners on the ballot and none of it is good.[/quote]

So it's kinda like the Redskins FO, it doesn't matter who the coach is because there are higher powers within fucking it all up regardless.

Election Day
 

What exactly did Hilary do to be more reviled than an absolute piece of garbage of a human being like Trump? I’ll never really understand that.

Re: Election Day
 

To me it never was Hillary the person, but Hillary and her leadership role within the Obama administration where she was an absolute failure.

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=MTK;1183047]What exactly did Hilary do to be more reviled than an absolute piece of garbage of a human being like Trump? I’ll never really understand that.[/quote]

To be clear, my main problem with Hillary was the DNC propping her up and not giving Bernie a fair shot, and the fact that she ignored the middle class. Now that she's out, my main problem is with the DNC. If half the people want Bernie and the other half want Hillary, it needs to be properly settled. Instead you had DNC committee members that didn't care if the majority of the population wanted Bernie, they were going to vote for Hillary in the primary because it was the right thing to do. But even after all that, I still think Hillary would have been the lesser of two evils. I don't think I need to explain all the problems I still have with Trump.

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=mooby;1183044]So it's kinda like the Redskins FO, it doesn't matter who the coach is because there are higher powers within fucking it all up regardless.[/quote]

I guess. Maybe it's like the 4-3 3-4 debate, it doesn't really matter cause the swamp is going to do what they want anyway.

And on that superb segue let me explain what I think is a crucial difference in response to Matty's Goldman Sachs/swamp comment.

I think these terms Winning and Swamp have very different meanings to the population in general. I laid out what I saw as Winning but I also think I acknowledged that a Trump supporter's definition of winning, and a Trump opponent's definition of winning simply is not the same.

Likewise the definition of the swamp is not the same from what I gather in here. For me, as a Trump supporter, the swamp is that bureacratic quagmire that finds it's home in DC and the surrounding neighborhoods, and has slowly but inexorably crept into every part of our lives with impacts that are created by unelected bureacrats who dwell at their desks regardless of who the current President is or which party is in power. These are the people who have no vested interest in the well being of the nation, only in keeping their fiefdoms alive and funded. There are elected officials who feed the swamp, and they are found in both parties. When Trump talks about draining the swamp those bureacracies are what I see him referring to. Matty used the term the swamp to refer to bankers and elitists, but they aren't what I call the swamp. I do think they have their own place in hell (Funny thing is that Alexander Hamilton, who is beloved by many because of the excellent broadway play - that is coming to the Kennedy center on my birthday in case some fellow warpathers want to pitch in and get me and my daughter tickets but I digress, Alexander Hamilton would have been in Goldman Sachs without a doubt, or perhaps he would have been a modern day Fed chairman)

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=MTK;1183047]What exactly did Hilary do to be more reviled than an absolute piece of garbage of a human being like Trump? I’ll never really understand that.[/quote]

And I could write it all out - it has in fact been, but it's probably like the shiny blue gold dress unless/until you see it, you won't see it. Once you do, everything about her actions is seen in a different light.

The best I can say is that Trump wears his persona on his sleeve. Is he a sleaze yea, but he is a genuine sleaze. HC is far more deceitful and vindicative then Trump could dream to be, but like Lucifer she comes as an angel of light, and that makes her evil far more insidious.

Re: Election Day
 

Also curious, had Bernie been the candidate, would Trump still be your choice? But you're right, the fact these are the two the country settled on says a lot.

Re: Election Day
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;1183055]Also curious, had Bernie been the candidate, would Trump still be your choice? But you're right, the fact these are the two the country settled on says a lot.[/QUOTE]I would not have voted for Bernie, I am a full blown Adam Smith capitalist, and feel that Bernies socialism will destroy what built the US. That said put John Kasich on the Republican ticket or have a Libertarian party that had a shot at winning and I would have voted for them in lieu of Trump.

Re: Election Day
 

I thought Obama’s socialism was supposed to destroy us?

Re: Election Day
 

Socialism in general is destroying the country. It is fulfilling deTocqueville's oft quoted statement about the governed learning to write themselves checks.

We are in a very common cycle of nations, and unfortunately we aren't in the growth side any more. As one cartoon character would say "We're doooomed I tell ya, doomed"

Re: Election Day
 

Interesting.

The part that mostly blows my mind is he acts like he's an "every man". Thanks for answering all my questions, it's good insight.

I have another one, lol, do you think he personally cares about you? I could easily have said that for every president since I've been born except for him. I just think he only cares about his perception.

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1183068]Interesting.

The part that mostly blows my mind is he acts like he's an "every man". Thanks for answering all my questions, it's good insight.

I have another one, lol, do you think he personally cares about you? I could easily have said that for every president since I've been born except for him. I just think he only cares about his perception.[/quote]

I don't think any Republican president since Reagan "cares about me", certainly the 2nd Bush couldn't have understood a bit of my life. The first may have, but I don't think so.
As for Democrats, if I was partying with Bill I think he would care about me, if I could get him the right things - if you know what I mean. Personally as your stereotypical middle class white male Army vet making an income at a level just above where I would qualify for any government assistance, I am fairly confident that Obama would have held my life in disdain.

Reagan is the last one I felt really cared at the individual level. Before that Carter did too. I was too young to know or care about Johnson, Nixon or Ford.

A different question, same concept- do you feel that the previous Presidents cared about the US above the rest of the nations. I feel Trump does, and that's really more important than if he cares about me personally. I want the President to look at the US and think that's MY country and I'm proud to be the leader of it. I truly don't think Pres Obama felt that way every day he woke up. I think Reagan exuded that from every moment of his life. I think Both Bush's and Clinton felt it, but at the same token, looked at the US as one among many. Again, too young to give my thoughts on before Carter. (I think Carter felt it, but again felt we shouldn't express it confidently).

Re: Election Day
 

By the way, if you can't tell I like answering questions. I may not be AS longwinded as my bro JR, but I try LOL

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1182989]Just curious, what do you think of him as a person? I've always been independent with a slight left lean, but he just seems like such a terrible fucking person (I felt gross voting for Hillary too).[/quote]

A Republican here that yes does lean left at times but I didn't vote for either.Like her or not Hillary was the most qualified to run the country,she is an ass but she knew how to run a country something trump has proven he can not do. I all so know exactly what trump did as a business man and that is where I learned to hate this man. I have one very ,very close friend who trump screwed over and knew a few others that all worked for him and it was no secret about him and women but he has not a ethical bone in his body.My knowledge of him is more pre president and I haven't been wrong yet.

First I don't think Reagan cared as much as you think he did.
Yes ,I think Obama cared alot but I think he tried to hard to be the man for everyone.Yes I believe that many whites voted trump to get back at the "Black president".

Re: Election Day
 

[quote=Giantone;1183081]A Republican here that yes does lean left at times but I didn't vote for either.Like her or not Hillary was the most qualified to run the country,she is an ass but she knew how to run a country something trump has proven he can not do. I all so know exactly what trump did as a business man and that is where I learned to hate this man. I have one very ,very close friend who trump screwed over and knew a few others that all worked for him and it was no secret about him and women but he has not a ethical bone in his body.My knowledge of him is more pre president and I haven't been wrong yet.[/quote]

I hate to ask this, I dread asking this, and yet I am a moth drawn to the flame.

How has Trump proven he can not run the country?