Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=MTK;1224488]Someone would pay him



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

"Someone" will always pay just about anyone. That doesn't mean its SMART to do so. The skins are, at best, a mediocre team already handicapped with 20 million in dead cap money on a QB for each of the next two years. So they are already operating with 12% less salary capital each of the next two years due to that - they are not in a position to take additional risk on a player like TW who, based on recent history, will miss atleast 1/4 of the regular season games anyway. Given the situation they are in, giving him any more money would be incredibly stupid - especially when they don't have to do so. He's under contract 2 more years. He can play it out or miss 32 game checks.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=MTK;1224499]Gruden doesn't need to do shit, this is above is pay grade. In fact him having to face down the media about it is pretty shitty. As usual Bruce stays in the shadows on the tough issues, but hot damn he sure was out and about after the draft basking in the glow.[/quote]

This is the sort of nonsensical argument Sheehan and Loverro make all the time. Gruden is the head coach. other than a few whacky GM/owners who love the spotlight, most GMs don't speak to the media regularly. On every other team the head coach is the one who gets asked about this sort of thing - why should here be any different?

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Per Field Yates the Redskins put in a claim for LT Howard but the Cards beat them to it.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1224503]This is the sort of nonsensical argument Sheehan and Loverro make all the time. Gruden is the head coach. other than a few whacky GM/owners who love the spotlight, most GMs don't speak to the media regularly. On every other team the head coach is the one who gets asked about this sort of thing - why should here be any different?[/quote]

I could be wrong, but I don't remember seeing anyone in the Steelers FO discussing L. Bell or AB with the media. I think the owner may have spoken once. Most of the questions about these guys were probably fielded by Tomlin.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1224503]This is the sort of nonsensical argument Sheehan and Loverro make all the time. Gruden is the head coach. other than a few whacky GM/owners who love the spotlight, most GMs don't speak to the media regularly. On every other team the head coach is the one who gets asked about this sort of thing - why should here be any different?[/quote]

It's not a football matter, it's an organizational one. Allen should be out in front of it. If Allen can go out and toot his horn after the draft he sure as hell should address this.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=MTK;1224508]It's not a football matter, it's an organizational one. Allen should be out in front of it. If Allen can go out and toot his horn after the draft he sure as hell should address this.[/quote]

I'm not aware of any other team with a traditional GM that operates this way. It criticizing him for not doing something that none of his peers would do. Its like criticizing an active president for not going to fight in a war when no other president would do so. Allen is (justifiably) disliked, and this is just a lazy and stupid way to attack him.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Rooney made public comments a few times about the AB situation if I recall correctly. He certainly didn't shy away from the issue.

[URL]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001013008/article/art-rooney-seems-to-soften-stance-on-antonio-brown[/URL]

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=MTK;1224511]Rooney made public comments a few times about the AB situation if I recall correctly. He certainly didn't shy away from the issue.

[URL]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001013008/article/art-rooney-seems-to-soften-stance-on-antonio-brown[/URL][/quote]

Rooney is one of the leagues more vocal owner's. Its the exception, not the rule. Additionally, the AB situation received much more publicity, both due to AB's public comments and due to the fact he's one of the most well-known players in the league. Fans of most of the other 31 NFL teams wouldn't know who Trent Williams was. And as has already been pointed out, Tomlin was asked about Bell and Brown constantly.

If there is discussion around a player on the team's roster, its almost always the coach speaking about it. If there is discussion about a transaction (such as a free agent signing or draft pick), the coach and GM will both talk about it. I would not expect Bruce or Doug to comment unless the situation escalates or Trent is moved.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=bigant;1224501]if i,m Dan snyder , i,m on a plane to meet trent williams and his agent face to face to iron this situation out[/quote]

Never gonna happen. This is the beginning of a renegotiation attempt by Williams, not a surrender ceremony.

Snyder should stay out of it for now and let his subordinates handle it. He should position himself to ride in a a white horse and save the day if an impasse develops.

Bruce Allen's initial position should be "You're under contract. We're not going to trade you or cut you. First come to Training Camp and then perhaps we can do something".

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Can't believe there is 14 pages to this thread when the answer is simple. Does not matter what team we are talking about, the [b]owners holds all of the cards.[/b] The player has absolutely ZERO leverage. That is the way it is done with NFL contracts and it was collectively bargained. Meaning the players union agreed to it.

The team does not have to do anything. Nothing. Talk new deal all you want, but the facts of the matter are this:

- TW has 2 years on his current contract.
- Ownership retains his rights unless he is released, or they let him walk after the contract is done.
- Even if TW says "Eff-U, I'm retiring". If he 'unretires' in say 2 years, Washington still owns his rights and he is back at square one. But 2 years older and 2 years removed from Football. And still a Washington Redskin.

He can demand his release all he wants. When the club does not release him, his only recourse is either:
- Holdout into the regular season, thereby leaving millions on the table when he is not getting paid and being fined.
- Play

This is a game of chicken Williams cannot win.

That is it. Club does not have to do anything, again they hold 100% all of the leverage in this.

I stand my my previous statement that once game checks and paydays are at stake, Trent Williams will shut up about this, have a change of heart and suit up. Of course there will be the obligatory-face-saving press release from Trents camp that goes a little like "Trent wants to put his entire focus on the Redskins season and does not want any distractions regarding contract negotiations to hinder that, therefore it is his decision that he will forego any contract negotiations until the end of the season."

Sound familiar? That press release is a template on every agents Office365.
Just so happens the end of the regular season is when he will have 1 season on his current deal. That is when a deal gets done.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;1224516]can't believe there is 14 pages to this thread when the answer is simple. Does not matter what team we are talking about, the [b]owners holds all of the cards.[/b] the player has absolutely zero leverage. That is the way it is done with nfl contracts and it was collectively bargained. Meaning the players union agreed to it.

The team does not have to do anything. Nothing. Talk new deal all you want, but the facts of the matter are this:

- tw has 2 years on his current contract.
- ownership retains his rights unless he is released, or they let him walk after the contract is done.
- even if tw says "eff-u, i'm retiring". If he 'unretires' in say 2 years, washington still owns his rights and he is back at square one. But 2 years older and 2 years removed from football. And still a washington redskin.

He can demand his release all he wants. When the club does not release him, his only recourse is either:
- holdout into the regular season, thereby leaving millions on the table when he is not getting paid and being fined.
- play

this is a game of chicken williams cannot win.

That is it. Club does not have to do anything, again they hold 100% all of the leverage in this.

I stand my my previous statement that once game checks and paydays are at stake, trent williams will shut up about this, have a change of heart and suit up. Of course there will be the obligatory-face-saving press release from trents camp that goes a little like "trent wants to put his entire focus on the redskins season and does not want any distractions regarding contract negotiations to hinder that, therefore it is his decision that he will forego any contract negotiations until the end of the season."

sound familiar? That press release is a template on every agents office365.
Just so happens the end of the regular season is when he will have 1 season on his current deal. That is when a deal gets done.[/quote]

bingo

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

The exception comes with star players, that's their leverage. Otherwise holdouts would never work. Star players get their way more often than not.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=MTK;1224522]The exception comes with star players, that's their leverage. Otherwise holdouts would never work. Star players get their way more often than not.[/quote]

I will concede your point. But the only time it has worked in the players favor was when Emmitt Smith held out in 1993. Smith held out for the first 2 weeks of the regular season, and the Cowboys started out 0-2. Smith got his payday that week and Dallas went 14-2 after that.

BUT>....that was a different time and a different CBA. I cannot recall a recent holdout except for LaVeon Bell. But Steelers run game did not slip too much without Bell last season.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;1224523]I will concede your point. But the only time it has worked in the players favor was when Emmitt Smith held out in 1993. Smith held out for the first 2 weeks of the regular season, and the Cowboys started out 0-2. Smith got his payday that week and Dallas went 14-2 after that.

BUT>....that was a different time and a different CBA. I cannot recall a recent holdout except for LaVeon Bell. But Steelers run game did not slip too much without Bell last season.[/quote]

That’s the thing out Oline would dramatically be downgraded without TW out there. With him continuing to age and his injury history. I would rather put him on the trading block and see what’s out there while he is still worth something than to have him be this years Mason Foster. His position and the lack of depth we have there puts quite a bit of power in his hands. Yes the Redskins hold his fate but he can put forth the bare minimum and we lose all around.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

So now that Bruce has talked to the media, what will Sheehan and Loverro criticize Allen for now?

[url]https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/bruce-allen-trent-williams-holdout-i-know-what-truth[/url]

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

maybe Atl would trade McGary straight up for TW. we could free up cap space and get a good young nasty tackle?

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1224526]So now that Bruce has talked to the media, what will Sheehan and Loverro criticize Allen for now?

[url]https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/bruce-allen-trent-williams-holdout-i-know-what-truth[/url][/quote]

FYI cooley on Sheehan today and it’s good. Cooley said this is a big deal especially when Trent is probably the most respected player on the team. Cooley said he couldn’t imagine the team doctor not giving Trent proper time, advice and treatment.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

sandtrapjack... we literally have nothing behind Williams. And at some point we'll be playing a rookie QB. That is his leverage. Yeah the team has more leverage, but he does have some.

I'm also confused why they didn't resign Ty. The Bills didn't give him a huge contract.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1224529]sandtrapjack... we literally have nothing behind Williams. And at some point we'll be playing a rookie QB. That is his leverage. Yeah the team has more leverage, but he does have some.

I'm also confused why they didn't resign Ty. The Bills didn't give him a huge contract.[/quote]

Ty probably wanted to leave so he could start in Buffalo

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;1224523]I will concede your point. But the only time it has worked in the players favor was when Emmitt Smith held out in 1993. Smith held out for the first 2 weeks of the regular season, and the Cowboys started out 0-2. Smith got his payday that week and Dallas went 14-2 after that.

BUT>....that was a different time and a different CBA. I cannot recall a recent holdout except for LaVeon Bell. But Steelers run game did not slip too much without Bell last season.[/quote]

Usually it doesn't get to holdout, players renegotiate deals all the time

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Chico23231;1224528]FYI cooley on Sheehan today and it’s good. Cooley said this is a big deal especially when Trent is probably the most respected player on the team. Cooley said he couldn’t imagine the team doctor not giving Trent proper time, advice and treatment.[/quote]

Yeah, I listed to it as well. We certainly don't have all the details, but more likely than not, this is almost entirely about the money.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1224529]

I'm also confused why they didn't resign Ty. The Bills didn't give him a huge contract.[/quote]

We already have the highest paid offensive line in the league... and we're trying to extend Scherff. Spending $6-7M on a backup tackle would have been incredibly foolish. As would giving TW more money now.

This is the reality of the salary cap, having other needs, and 12% of your cap used up by Alex Smith for the next two years.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1224526]So now that Bruce has talked to the media, what will Sheehan and Loverro criticize Allen for now?

[url]https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/bruce-allen-trent-williams-holdout-i-know-what-truth[/url][/quote]

Nothing good can come of Bruce Allen speaking on this subject. Nothing. I would literally prefer anyone else in the organization. At least Allen didn't call him "Brent."

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1224533]We already have the highest paid offensive line in the league... and we're trying to extend Scherff. Spending $6-7M on a backup tackle would have been incredibly foolish. As would giving TW more money now.

This is the reality of the salary cap, having other needs, [B]and 12% of your cap used up by Alex Smith for the next two years[/B].[/quote]

I don't why but I was under the impression that we could cut Smith at the end of the 2019 season, apparently we kinda can't:

[url]https://overthecap.com/player/alex-smith/784/[/url]

Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

I’m sure it’s been mentioned, but my problem with Trent on this is WHY would you wait until now? You’ve had all offseason to raise these concerns, and it comes out the day OTAs start. It puts the entire team, planning, offense, and cap in jeopardy.

Either it shows he doesn’t give a shit about the team, or he’s been complaining privately all offseason, and the front office hasn’t done anything


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Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=5superbowls3wins;1224539]I’m sure it’s been mentioned, but my problem with Trent on this is WHY would you wait until now? You’ve had all offseason to raise these concerns, and it comes out the day OTAs start. It puts the entire team, planning, offense, and cap in jeopardy.

Either it shows he doesn’t give a shit about the team, or he’s been complaining privately all offseason, and the front office hasn’t done anything


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]It becomes public now because it was the first time since the end of the season that he was put in a must choose position. In terms of the FO Allen said they had private conversations, it jyst sounds like the two parties had different expectations. Trent wasnt going to participayr in these anyways so he chose to make a point to the FO. Unless it gets crazy this isn't unusual drama for june nfl news

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Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=BigHairedAristocrat;1224526]So now that Bruce has talked to the media, what will Sheehan and Loverro criticize Allen for now?



[url]https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/bruce-allen-trent-williams-holdout-i-know-what-truth[/url][/QUOTE]Bruce very well might be telling the truth, but does anyone here have any confidence that he is?

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Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[url]https://www.hogshaven.com/2019/6/8/18657510/john-keim-podcast-raises-issues-about-redskins-training-and-medical-staffs[/url]

According to Keim, the players feel very differently about the S&C staff compared to the athletic training staff. They detail lack of communication as the single biggest issue, between individuals rehabbing and staff, between s&c and training staff, just communication all over the place.

Bashir, and Phillips are on the podcast with Keim. There is a ton of "between the lines" content here.

Something I found interesting:

They spoke about Trent's effect on the locker room in that it doesn't matter if he has a C on his jersey or not, that when he is in a bad mood, the locker room is in a bad mood, when Trent is happy, the locker room is happy.

It's that kind of leadership that matters. I get so tired of Finlay talking about how DJ was a team leader. If he really was, Allen wouldn't have come right behind him and contradicted his statement directly. People follow examples like Trent and Allen without them saying a word.

This is the kinda stuff that we have no idea about but is really important.

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Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1224542][url]https://www.hogshaven.com/2019/6/8/18657510/john-keim-podcast-raises-issues-about-redskins-training-and-medical-staffs[/url]

According to Keim, the players feel very differently about the S&C staff compared to the athletic training staff. They detail lack of communication as the single biggest issue, between individuals rehabbing and staff, between s&c and training staff, just communication all over the place.

Bashir, and Phillips are on the podcast with Keim. There is a ton of "between the lines" content here.

Something I found interesting:

They spoke about Trent's effect on the locker room in that it doesn't matter if he has a C on his jersey or not, that when he is in a bad mood, the locker room is in a bad mood, when Trent is happy, the locker room is happy.

It's that kind of leadership that matters. I get so tired of Finlay talking about how DJ was a team leader. If he really was, Allen wouldn't have come right behind him and contradicted his statement directly. People follow examples like Trent and Allen without them saying a word.

[B]This is the kinda stuff that we have no idea about but is really important.[/B]

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk[/quote]

Agreed, and that's why this TW situation is a big deal and needs to be solved quite quickly. Solved in a way that he stays on the team and is happy to would be my preference.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Trent is a must have on the team. Too me, this is a Bruce issue...do I have faith he can get is done? I swear to god, this is the last straw with this fucking guy.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

If the stuff about the medical staff is true, look for sweeping changes in the next 1-2 weeks. It’s either the medical staff or Trent.

I hope Danny picks Trent


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Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

I cant understand why any NFL player would ever fully trust the team doctor. Team doctors are paid by the team and will error on the side of the team. If I was an NFL player I'd have my own doctor on a retainer and forget about the team doctor.

If the Skins can get something good for TW they should trade him. The last thing this team needs to do is over pay and over extend this guy. He's a good player but is older and often injured, they dont need millstone contract on this team.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1224560]Trent is a must have on the team. Too me, this is a Bruce issue...do I have faith he can get is done? I swear to god, this is the last straw with this fucking guy.[/QUOTE]



Agreed BA is an absolute tool bag, and wouldn’t even have a job in the NFL if not for his father. Ultimately though Chico this is a Dick Snyder issue. Vinny, this guy? Wtf is he doing?

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Chico23231;1224560]Trent is a must have on the team. Too me, this is a Bruce issue...do I have faith he can get is done? I swear to god, this is the last straw with this fucking guy.[/quote]

We do have Trent on the team. For two more years under his current deal. The team can give him more money if they want, but there is no realistic scenario where Trent misses actual games.

The only player in recent memory to hold out for significant games was Laveon Bell.... and it cost him million of dollars (14.5M for sitting out 2018 + the amount of the difference between what the Jets paid him and what the steelers were going to pay). Trent would be incredibly stupid to sit out. And given his injury history, the skins would be stupid to give him a significant extension now.

This isn't the kind of story we want to read, but ultimately i don't think there is any probable scenario where Trent misses actual gametime.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Yeah I don't see Trent holding out like Bell did, I think he's just looking to see if Bruce will budge.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1224580]Yeah I don't see Trent holding out like Bell did, I think he's just looking to see if Bruce will budge.[/quote]


Dunno. TW is a walk the walk kind of guy, not a lot of BS in him. That is why he has respect in the locker room. Folks like that say what they mean. If the skins want to keep him they need to take his grievance seriously or he will leave.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Kope;1224581]Dunno. TW is a walk the walk kind of guy, not a lot of BS in him. That is why he has respect in the locker room. Folks like that say what they mean. If the skins want to keep him they need to take his grievance seriously or he will leave.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure a lot of what Trent is reportedly "saying" is coming from his agent.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Kope;1224581]Dunno. TW is a walk the walk kind of guy, not a lot of BS in him. That is why he has respect in the locker room. Folks like that say what they mean. If the skins want to keep him they need to take his grievance seriously or he will leave.[/quote]

He is under contract for 2 more years. He can't "leave." He ultimately has three choices:
1) Play and receive nearly 30 million dollars over the next two years.
2) Hold out and lose 30 million dollars over the next two years, and become a free agent in 2021 at 33 years old. He will never make back the money he missed.
3) Retire and lose 30 million over the next two years. The redskins hold his right forever, so he can never sign with another team.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=Kope;1224581]Dunno. TW is a walk the walk kind of guy, not a lot of BS in him. That is why he has respect in the locker room. Folks like that say what they mean. If the skins want to keep him they need to take his grievance seriously or he will leave.[/QUOTE]



I totally agree. Do not seeing him going back on his word, and if they weren’t his words he has had ample time to clear the air.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=punch it in;1224585]I totally agree. Do not seeing him going back on his word, and if they weren’t his words he has had ample time to clear the air.[/quote]

If TW is wanting a new contract, and his agent has put out information to try and help him get a new contract, TW would be a complete idiot to "clear the air." What could he possibly have to gain by saying anything publically?

The thing some here are having a hard time remembering is that all these "reports" are ultimately meaningless. The only thing that matters is what's been said in the private conversations that TW and/or his agent have had with the team.

Neither side has anything to gain by making public statements. And while everyone is getting all worked up about this, we must remember that there is really nothing remarkable about the reports we've heard. Its the same kind of stuff that happens between dozens of players and their teams every year. There is no reason to be overly concerned until we get to maybe week 3 of the preseason.