Re: WFT Free Agency
 

Right, at 19 LB is in play so I'm not too worried

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

KPL was our only decent coverage WLB but thats not saying much with our corps. I viewed him as a C player.

Tayon Brown would have been a huge get. Maybe a Marcus Washington type player.

LB seems to be a position you can find good players and good value in FA and late offseason cuts.

Hopefully we can find a B level coverage WLB.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

Josh Harvey Clemons will be back this year, he opted out due to covid last year. Perhaps they see him as a KPL type of player in this defense.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

"It's the same old story," he said Tuesday as the Giants began preparations to face the Redskins on Sunday at MetLife Stadium.

Robinson left as a free agent this past offseason. He said he was offered a long-term deal after the 2014 campaign, but he decided against it because he didn't think Washington was where he wanted to be for the next four or five years.

The atmosphere wasn't right, he said, and he struggled with injuries and performance last season. A return was never an option, even though the Redskins won the NFC East and made the playoffs in 2015.

"When I was there, three out of four years, it was the same thing," Robinson said. "Once they get down, they start pointing fingers. And that is true. That is what happens. And for the Redskins -- I've only been on one team before I came here, and that was them -- and all I saw was not the right way to handle it. I feel like they didn't handle it the right way when I was there. They may be handling it different now. But when I was there, they started pointing fingers, people started talking. That's how you get dissension in the locker room.

"For us, we have to use that to our advantage. We have to do what we do, play our role, play football, play aggressive, play fast, play physical. We can't worry about what their team is doing."

Robinson is much happier with the Giants.

[url]https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17597913/same-old-story[/url]

Talking about athletic LBs got me to thinking about Keenan Robinson and how he tried to dig us the year after he left. (He wasnt wrong in what he said).

He played 6 games in 2017 and hasnt played a game since.

Should have taken that long term deal .. glad ya didnt.

My pettiness is bottomless, im such an ahole

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

FA is similar the draft. Can't give it a grade until after the season. Sure the moves seem great today. They always do. But you just never know how someone will fit into you building/ culture/team and so on. Plus I'm sure there will be more signings. I'll take a wait and see approach.

Steve Sims was a huge disappointment, plus these coaches did not draft or sign him so I'd say he's probably the odd man out.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

Eric Wilson LB was with the vikes could be an interesting FA.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[IMG]https://i.redd.it/aszlq2ll2un61.jpg[/IMG]

Samuel looking good in our colors.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=mooby;1279811][IMG]https://i.redd.it/aszlq2ll2un61.jpg[/IMG]

Samuel looking good in our colors.[/quote]

Serious photoshop skills

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

WFT signs LB David Mayo.

Don't know anything about him...

Edit: Drafted by Carolina in 2015.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1279813]WFT signs LB David Mayo.



Don't know anything about him...



Edit: Drafted by Carolina in 2015.[/QUOTE][IMG]https://media.tenor.com/images/01785514be11ea21fad9978c5133d1d3/tenor.gif[/IMG]

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

Lol love the edit Chief

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1279813]WFT signs LB David Mayo.

Don't know anything about him...

Edit: Drafted by Carolina in 2015.[/quote]

Depth move at a position of need. The most he's ever started is 13 games. [URL="https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/washington-addresses-need-linebacker-signing-former-giant-david-mayo"]He started 2 last year.[/URL]

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1279813]WFT signs LB David Mayo.

Don't know anything about him...

Edit: Drafted by Carolina in 2015.[/quote]

You shoulda said WFT signs LB David "not Jarod" Mayo.

Cue up the "I have had it with these monkey fighting ex-Panthers on this Monday-Friday plane"

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

Who fuck is this Mayo guy?

X-giant?

G1, give me a fuckin breakdown now boomer

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

I'm just glad we hired a platoon of high priced personnel executives so we could sign former Panthers backups as WFT backups.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

I’m just glad we finally hired a platoon of high priced personnel that knows what the hell they are doing unlike the last 20 years of crap show ...

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1279822]I'm just glad we hired a platoon of high priced personnel executives so we could sign former Panthers backups as WFT backups.[/quote]

True. The smart thing to do would be to stay away from the former Panthers backups and target backups from other teams.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

I say sign Kyle to play with his bro.

[url]https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-bears-to-release-pro-bowl-cb-kyle-fuller-in-salary-cap-crunch-232604559.html[/url]

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

This is a lot better team now than last year and we have not even drafted yet !!

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

Danny Johnson - CB - B+

He hasn't played much at CB, but he is an undersized slight-of-build CB who seems to have good instincts and good quickness and doesn't give up easy separation and has good cognizance of where the ball is and how to make a play on it. He may not be the second coming of D. Sanders or D. Green, but as the #5 or #6 corner you could do worse. He is also a competent returner, and your depth CBs and WRs should be able to help in that regard.

This would be a B signing, but our FO had a chance to tender Johnson and didn't. They let him walk and signed him (presumably) cheaper. I bump up the grade a bit for that. As noted, I prefer man corners with a bit of quickness and true coverage ability versus the larger zone corners that get toasted if isolated in space. Johnson is more of a man guy in terms of athletic ability and feels like a slot corner based on his size. If nothing else, some return ability and contribute in nickel and dime packages especially if injury.

Overall, a solid depth signing, with the caveat that you'll never get comp picks if you aren't drafting players like these. Our FO is still dealing with a massive accumulated talent deficit from decades of mismanagement, but eventually there should come a time when your depth RBs, CBs, LBs, OL, etc., are drafted. This is yet another reason why you don't trade 9 picks for a QB. You sacrifice not just those picks, but any hope of ever getting comp picks.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

David Mayo - C

Mayo was drafted by panthers. Played OLB in college I believe, for a non-dominant program, journeyman who has also played for Niners and Giants who just released him. Not athletic enough for OLB in pros, moved to ILB usually, at least from what I remember watching, could be wrong. Mayo is one of those players whose athletic measurables are average at best, but who has good instincts and a relentless motor. On some plays he lays the lumber pretty hard. His 40 time at combine was like 4.7 or 4.8, glacial, and he has put on 20 lbs. or so since entering pros I think. I just remember him looking way bigger in recent years than I remembered, which probably didn't help his already marginal speed. Of course, a MLB earns his money in a limited range between the tackles, so it is a position you can get away with lack of speed if you had to pick one.

At this price point, in a weak FA LB class especially now that best players signed, not a ton of viable options. You could ask a philosophical question here. Why are we signing the all-ex-Panthers squad? One view is that lesser risk because you know the players, and further down the list you get in FA more projection and risk involved, players with obvious flaws. You know how they will practice and prepare and perform in your locker room, which is huge. The other view is that a FO without brilliant scouting chops is falling back on what they know too much and bringing in their old guys instead of truly scouting everyone. Or perhaps RR is overruling and going with guys he knows.

Mayo is not the long-term answer you want as a thumper MLB, but is a solid backup who could start and log tons of tackles. He is at best a low end starter. He will never quit on you, but simply does not have the athleticism you want at position. Best case is a London Fletcher 2.0, but that is probably wayyyyyyyyyy optimistic. You could read this as us wanting to draft a MLB, or as us understanding you can't add a $30M+ contract at every position of need. Either way, you can't give the signing of a guy this athletically limited, even at bargain basement pricing, anything more than a C.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

Tyler Larsen - B-

Larsen is listed as OL, and could play G, but is a pure C. He started for Panthers at C when other players were injured for like half a season. He is naturally big, and fairly lean, but just doesn't seem to have that nastiness you want in a great OL or the strength his build would suggest. He is short armed and athletically limited, but plays with very sound technique, and without it he has no chance. He seems to do okay anchoring against power, but is lead footed and useless in space. You seem to see guys beating him on the edges or pushing him sideways, if I remember correctly. He seems to do much better against 0 technique guys than 1 technique (or 2 technique who stunt inside).

As I have stated repeatedly, I prefer an OL heavy on Ts and Cs. It is MUCH easier to to move a T who can play in space to G (as long as he has some strength) than to ask a G without natural foot quickness to play T (see Scherff), if mid-game injuries strike. It is much easier for a C used to snapping the ball to move to G, than to ask a G to learn to snap. Thus your backup spots should be C and T focused. It also generally harder to block the edge with infinite space than a narrow region between T and C. While you obviously need pure guards, I would rather have Charles backing up G as well as T than Martin backing up T as well as G.

We have 9 OL on roster: Lucas, Schweitz, Roullier, Scherff, Moses. Then Charles (T), Sharp (T), and Ishmael (C). Also Martin (G). That is 9 linemen. Will we carry 10? Seems improbable. Does coaching staff not like something they see Martin or Ismael? Or is this just an opportunity signing, a guy RR knows started and played well who could be upgrade over Martin or Ismael? I would guess the latter. Larson almost 30 though.

Martin and Ismael can't be smiling about this signing, Martin especially. RR had 2 centers injured year Larsen started. Could he be looking for a 3rd center, remembering the headaches? Ten OL to be sure Fitz, a geezer, and Heinecke, injury prone, or some rookie QB they are targeting, are protected? Simply let people compete? I would guess they view Larson as at least a minor upgrade over Ismael, and if they cut him costs are minimal, good Cs are hard to find, better to have an extra just in case since a player the know and like became available. But who knows.

I give this a B-. Athletically limited player who should get C grade no matter what the price, but one who started half a season and did okay against some good competition, which is more than you can say for Ismael. Thus grade bumped up to B-. If you cut him, may have burned some small signing bonus against cap, but trivial. A respectable signing at one of the toughest positions to fill, shows FO serious about improving all areas of roster, including back end, not just glamour starting positions. Can't fault taking a flyer on a guy with no long-term harm to team if he fails, and letting him compete. This is the kind of signing you love to see, as shows FO really picking through the weeds talentwise.

Overall Grade So Far
 

B+

Only atrocious signing is Fitz. Isn't about how good he is or plays, but the erroneous decision to emphasize stopgap over committing that spot to potential long-term answer. You have to grind through guys until you find your long-term franchise QB, and you don't do that by signing stopgaps. With a non-coach GM, doubtful we make this decision. Also don't like $10M on one-year stopgap that could have gone to locking up young talent long-term, either in house, or filling another need like LB with long-term player in his prime. Fitz might get us to the playoffs, but never the SB. We sacrificed the long-term goal of winning SB to the short with this signing and I hate it.

I have given most signings Bs or Cs, so the B+ may seem curious, but be aware A grades are reserved for exceptional value signings or HOF or All-Pro type player signings. As are hard to earn and rare, they aren't participation trophies. Our two big signings CB and WR, both solid B-ish grades, and should weigh more heavily than lesser signings.

Strictly looking at our signings, I would probably go a B, and drop it to B- for the horrendous Fitz signing. Except you have to account what we didn't do. We didn't get into moronic bidding wars for overpriced TEs like Henry. Or for WRs like Golladay and Ju-Ju the hole. And cetera. The old FO would have handed out a $100M deal to Golladay (who is not a true #1WR), and $60M+ to Henry, etc. The fact that every signing we made is sensible and judicious, not heinously above market value, not for massive terms of length, and is for younger players in prime for entire deal rather than the over-30 club, must be factored in. Even the one deal I hate, Fitz, is one year, old FO would have signed him 4 years $80M. Thus I bump up the grade to B+ for not making a single signing that is completely absurd or dumb and Cerrato-esque. There are many teams that made the kind of overpay mistakes we used to, and it is amusing and refreshing to see the horrible deals and not have one of them be made by us.

It bears repeating, however, that our one horrible decision is at the highest leverage position in all of sports, QB. I would rather suck this year and win a SB in 2 more years. Instead we'll one-and-done the playoffs this year and be no closer to having the one thing you have to have to win multiple SBs--a franchise QB. An open competition with Heinecke and two rookies would have been a FAR smarter long term approach, which again is THE DAN tax, as he had to give RR total power to lure him here. Young QBs need reps to develop, that ain't happening with Fitz starting. In a proper structured FO with GM over coach, no way we sign Fitz. This notwithstanding, we are a much better team today, with the draft still to come.

I still expect some move at FS, perhaps one more depth LB, and perhaps a TE. We make those three signings, cheap deals, roster looks pretty rounded out and have freedom to go BPA in draft. As of now only two positions of major concern remain FS and TE. Thomas goes down, we have NOTHING at TE, and we still have no true FS on roster. You figure the FO addresses this, though they may like a TE such as Moss that we aren't factoring in.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

One other random question:

Who on our roster can long snap?

Might RR try and keep 3 Cs and have all of them learn to long snap? Can Larsen long snap, thereby using one ST position for a player that contribute on more than just ST plays? Maybe not, but just a random thought.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

That's a question I have often asked myself..... is long snapping such a specialist skill that it requires its own roster spot. Of course the risk of not having a dedicated specialist is that you kicking game turns to crap if you try to save a single roster spot

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1279824]True. The smart thing to do would be to stay away from the former Panthers backups and target backups from other teams.[/quote]

I'm not sure what you mean by that comment. Nevertheless, the last two signings have the appearance of laziness. You know, sitting in the office with their feet up on the desk drinking coffee and farting.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1279837]I'm not sure what you mean by that comment. Nevertheless, the last two signings have the appearance of laziness. You know, sitting in the office with their feet up on the desk drinking coffee and farting.[/quote]

Yeah, guys who’ve won Super Bowls as players, gone to one as a coach, coach a team while going through chemotherapy are well known for their lack of work ethic.....🤦*♂️

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=MissouriSkin;1279838]Yeah, guys who’ve won Super Bowls as players, gone to one as a coach, coach a team while going through chemotherapy are well known for their lack of work ethic.....🤦*♂️[/quote]

Some don’t get it . Never will .. I agree with you Missouri !

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[QUOTE=EdmundDorf;1279835]That's a question I have often asked myself..... is long snapping such a specialist skill that it requires its own roster spot. Of course the risk of not having a dedicated specialist is that you kicking game turns to crap if you try to save a single roster spot[/QUOTE]

It's not something that can't be trained up BUT it is an ability based skill just like a QB's arm strength and accuracy, so having the right guy(s) with those skills is key. There is always at least one backup LS on every roster, so it's likely they have someone in mind, either already on the roster, or via FA/draft. Though it is a very slight worry that we have no LS currently listed on the depth chart!

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1279837]I'm not sure what you mean by that comment. Nevertheless, the last two signings have the appearance of laziness. You know, sitting in the office with their feet up on the desk drinking coffee and farting.[/quote]

As we know that's Ron's MO, lazy

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

Looking ahead: Washington needs to find a long snapper and while no names have emerged those who have called have been told they have a list. It still needs a TE; they did make an early offer to one of the top TE's available, though it's uncertain which one. It wants to add an OT as well. Washington knows the draft can help in many areas it wants to fortify (OT, TE, LB). Like last offseason, a big key now is strengthening the depth in multiple areas.

Per Keim.


They again offered a top TE for the second year in a row missed. Tackle, LB and TE continues to be the focus.

Getting Ertz for a forth round pick and a short contract...I wouldn’t have a problem with.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[url]https://www.inquirer.com/eagles/philadelphia-eagles-nfl-salary-cap-zach-ertz-20210317.html[/url]

Great update here about Ertz and his current status. Ertz has stated he will to move without a new contract...but I’m not into rentals. Seems like the Eagles tho could cut Ertz down the road has teams who give permission to seek trade rarely bring the player back.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=Chico23231;1279847][url]https://www.inquirer.com/eagles/philadelphia-eagles-nfl-salary-cap-zach-ertz-20210317.html[/url]

Great update here about Ertz and his current status. Ertz has stated he will to move without a new contract...but I’m not into rentals. Seems like the Eagles tho could cut Ertz down the road has teams who give permission to seek trade rarely bring the player back.[/quote]

let him get cut, sign him to a one year prove it type of deal

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=MissouriSkin;1279838]Yeah, guys who’ve won Super Bowls as players, gone to one as a coach, coach a team while going through chemotherapy are well known for their lack of work ethic.....🤦*♂️[/quote]

FWIW, I wasn't talking about RR.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1279849]FWIW, I wasn't talking about RR.[/quote]

Doesn’t matter. Your narrative still doesn’t pass muster. Just because we aren’t making multiple blockbuster signings doesn’t mean we aren’t doing any thing. Just means we are doing it the right way for a change. We’ve addressed needs without making panic moves that will hurt us down the road while still making improvements. Not really sure what more people want. 🤷*♂️

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=MissouriSkin;1279854]Doesn’t matter. Your narrative still doesn’t pass muster. Just because we aren’t making multiple blockbuster signings doesn’t mean we aren’t doing any thing. Just means we are doing it the right way for a change. We’ve addressed needs without making panic moves that will hurt us down the road while still making improvements. Not really sure what more people want. 🤷*♂️[/quote]

Yes, Your Honor. If you ignore my occasional dumb-ass posts I promise to ignore yours.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

I wouldn't give up a pick for Ertz, given that pick [I]could[/I] bring in a #2 or even #1 TE itself and with abetter contract scenario. Agree, talk to him after he's cut but a trade makes little sense.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1279837]I'm not sure what you mean by that comment. Nevertheless, the last two signings have the appearance of laziness. You know, sitting in the office with their feet up on the desk drinking coffee and farting.[/quote]

It was just my smart ass way to say that they have to fill the roster with depth, and there's nothing wrong with bringing in players they already scouted, drafted, are familiar with, and who they think can contribute.

I just don't get the disdain when coaches and GMs bring in guys they know. I mean it's not like they aren't looking elsewhere too. Lazy? Yeah, I don't think lazy is what got these guys to where they are, nor this team where it currently is.

Call it Panthers North, North North Carolina, Washington Panthers if you want...I don't care. As long as they are building a winner.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1279856]I wouldn't give up a pick for Ertz, given that pick [I]could[/I] bring in a #2 or even #1 TE itself and with abetter contract scenario. Agree, talk to him after he's cut but a trade makes little sense.[/quote]

I wouldn't trade for him either, let him get cut. I bet he'll be chomping at the bit to play Philly twice a year and he'd be a great fit here, if healthy of course.

Re: WFT Free Agency
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1279860]It was just my smart ass way to say that they have to fill the roster with depth, and there's nothing wrong with bringing in players they already scouted, drafted, are familiar with, and who they think can contribute.

[B]I just don't get the disdain when coaches and GMs bring in guys they know.[/B] I mean it's not like they aren't looking elsewhere too. Lazy? Yeah, I don't think lazy is what got these guys to where they are, nor this team where it currently is.

Call it Panthers North, North North Carolina, Washington Panthers if you want...I don't care. As long as they are building a winner.[/quote]

Happens everywhere in life, as the old saying goes it's not what you know, it's who.

Fans have this idea that you're only supposed to hire the most qualified person regardless of relationship. Just doesn't work that way, it's a people business and coaches prefers guys they know and trust. And when they do hire someone that isn't an ex-colleague or player, if you dig deep enough you'll likely find the connections.