Re: Giants postgame
 

Didnt want to post my negative thoughts the day after a victory but ..
man we got lucky af.

Heinike's best throw I thought was that big play wheel route to McKissic. Perfectly placed ball. He didnt have to make a read on that play as it was his one and only option.

But I do think Turner is limiting the play book for him, catering to the throws he can make and making his reads simple. For this offense to work, Turner needs to call plays where Heinike can watch and see if his receiver wins before he has to throw the ball. Crosses, digs, screens, there are some outs and those scare me as Heinike's arm is a little soft. A corner sitting on an out can read, react and step in front of it .. jump it.

Hes not being asked to throw before a receiver makes his break, putting the ball on time and to a space.

This is the same "training wheels" QB play calling weve seen for the past few years as we play the QB shuffle.

I really wanted to see Turner be able to use his entire playbook so we can judge him accurately.

Still plenty of season left .. but this playcalling walks on a razor thin line. if the first read isnt open? Heinike has to tuck and run. Teams should start to key in on our predictable play calling.

Last year teams only had to defend the first 20 yards from the LOS. This year ... looks like we are going to fall into the same pattern. Recipe for .500 ball at best imo.

Still plenty of time .. I hope Heinike can start throwing the entire route tree and more complicated passing concepts ... but I imagine hes an IR waiting to happen.

Re: Giants postgame
 

@Wash_PR

Fact Friday: In three starts as an NFL quarterback (including postseason), Taylor Heinicke has completed 93 passes. That’s the most completions by any QB over their first three career starts in NFL history.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=MTK;1291579]@Wash_PR

Fact Friday: In three starts as an NFL quarterback (including postseason), Taylor Heinicke has completed 93 passes. That’s the most completions by any QB over their first three career starts in NFL history.[/quote]

That's crazy.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=MTK;1291579]@Wash_PR

Fact Friday: In three starts as an NFL quarterback (including postseason), Taylor Heinicke has completed 93 passes. That’s the most completions by any QB over their first three career starts in NFL history.[/quote]

He’s just a fuckin gamer. I thought his play against the giants really solidified him as a guy who can get it done.

He came up short against Tampa, but lead the team and was the difference maker his next start.

Great story and big test this coming weekend

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1291581]He’s just a fuckin gamer. I thought his play against the giants really solidified him as a guy who can get it done.

He came up short against Tampa, but lead the team and was the difference maker his next start.

Great story and big test this coming weekend[/quote]

Yeah he's starting to win me over, no doubt he can play. Health is the big question and we'll probably keep saying that until he goes a long stretch without getting knocked out of a game.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=MTK;1291579]@Wash_PR

Fact Friday: In three starts as an NFL quarterback (including postseason), Taylor Heinicke has completed 93 passes. That’s the most completions by any QB over their first three career starts in NFL history.[/quote]

NICE!

On a similar note, remember when Justin Fields played a few quarters of good pre season football and the media was craving a bust for him in Canton all ready. He sure looked underwhelming against a poor Cincy team yesterday.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=SunnySide;1291578]Didnt want to post my negative thoughts the day after a victory but ..
man we got lucky af.

Heinike's best throw I thought was that big play wheel route to McKissic. Perfectly placed ball. He didnt have to make a read on that play as it was his one and only option.

But I do think Turner is limiting the play book for him, catering to the throws he can make and making his reads simple. For this offense to work, Turner needs to call plays where Heinike can watch and see if his receiver wins before he has to throw the ball. Crosses, digs, screens, there are some outs and those scare me as Heinike's arm is a little soft. A corner sitting on an out can read, react and step in front of it .. jump it.

Hes not being asked to throw before a receiver makes his break, putting the ball on time and to a space.

This is the same "training wheels" QB play calling weve seen for the past few years as we play the QB shuffle.

I really wanted to see Turner be able to use his entire playbook so we can judge him accurately.

Still plenty of season left .. but this playcalling walks on a razor thin line. if the first read isnt open? Heinike has to tuck and run. Teams should start to key in on our predictable play calling.

Last year teams only had to defend the first 20 yards from the LOS. This year ... looks like we are going to fall into the same pattern. Recipe for .500 ball at best imo.

Still plenty of time .. I hope Heinike can start throwing the entire route tree and more complicated passing concepts ... but I imagine hes an IR waiting to happen.[/quote]

I was reading Kiem's review of the game on Friday. He was commenting on the number of passes TH makes short of the sticks. I am basically reading it as get the ball quickly to F1, Gibson. Thomas and have them make the plays to extend the drive. It does sound like training wheels to me. Obviously with more reps we should be able to see the playbook open.

I also read in the Kiem article the TD run by McKissic was a check out by TH. It was supposed to be a pass. That is a good sign in his reading the D.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=MTK;1291582]Yeah he's starting to win me over, no doubt he can play. Health is the big question and we'll probably keep saying that until he goes a long stretch without getting knocked out of a game.[/quote]

Same here. I hope Scott Turner gets a bit more creative and finds a way to get the running game going. As I've been saying ad nauseum we have way too much talent at RB to have effing Danny Jones out rush our team. Part of keeping Heinecke healthy will be to not ask him to throw it 40+ times a game.

Re: Giants postgame
 

I hope the Bills game this year is our 2020 Steelers game ; a win completely unexpected football wide, even by most WFT fans.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1291581]He’s just a fuckin gamer. I thought his play against the giants really solidified him as a guy who can get it done.

He came up short against Tampa, but lead the team and was the difference maker his next start.

Great story and big test this coming weekend[/quote]

i really liked what i saw out of reeves ..... i wish they would move collins all together to LB -- also realized i quoted the wrong post - meant the one about 'hey is he whats wrong with the 2ndary'

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=Meks;1291605]i really liked what i saw out of reeves ..... i wish they would move collins all together to LB -- also realized i quoted the wrong post - meant the one about 'hey is he whats wrong with the 2ndary'[/quote]

Agree. I'd have Collins as 2nd/3rd down LB with Holcomb (nickel) and as the 1 Dime LB; both until Davis 'gets it' and we see what he can do. I would consider McCain as SS with Curl at FS though, as I haven't seen enough of Everett to be convinced he can step up. Bostic should only be in on expected run downs. If we've got the talent I'd run a semi-permanent Dime style D the way the Rams did (does?). Given we face 7 or 8 games against QB's capable of taking off, our upcoming opponents must have noted how much acreage Jones has covered against us on the ground?

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1291600]Same here. I hope Scott Turner gets a bit more creative and finds a way to get the running game going. As I've been saying ad nauseum we have way too much talent at RB to have effing Danny Jones out rush our team. Part of keeping Heinecke healthy will be to not ask him to throw it 40+ times a game.[/quote]

I think the running game is going well. Like you though, I was also thinking that this team needs to run the ball more. However, it looks like through two games they are running it about 42% of the time - which is about middle of the pack as far as run/pass ratios go. Only three teams ran more than they passed last year.

That being said, I think it would go a long way to help the defense if they can figure out a way to effectively run the ball more, and sustain longer drives that way. It's going to be tough this week though, as Buffalo is pretty stingy against the run. They are equally stingy against the pass though, so it's going to require a real nice game plan from Scott Turner.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1291610]I think the running game is going well. Like you though, I was also thinking that this team needs to run the ball more. However, it looks like through two games they are running it about 42% of the time - which is about middle of the pack as far as run/pass ratios go. Only three teams ran more than they passed last year.



That being said, I think it would go a long way to help the defense if they can figure out a way to effectively run the ball more, and sustain longer drives that way. It's going to be tough this week though, as Buffalo is pretty stingy against the run. They are equally stingy against the pass though, [B]so it's going to require a real nice game plan from Scott Turner.[/B][/QUOTE]

We are doomed.

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Re: Giants postgame
 

My thoughts too, just didn't want to go there...

Re: Giants postgame
 

Heinicke had reached out to Turner mid season about a coaching job, and Turner told him to hold off, the team might need a qb.

I thought that was interesting.

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Re: Giants postgame
 

Nice [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h6oij79eGA"]breakdown video[/URL] on Heinicke by Kurt Warner. Heinicke still has ways to go as he missed several opportunities to make big plays, and it actually makes Turner looks better as he called some good plays but Heinicke didn't take advantage of it.

Re: Giants postgame
 

Turner is doing a pretty good job, I though so last year too. Not sure why some fans are so down on him.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=GridIron26;1291791]Nice [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h6oij79eGA"]breakdown video[/URL] on Heinicke by Kurt Warner. Heinicke still has ways to go as he missed several opportunities to make big plays, and it actually makes Turner looks better as he called some good plays but Heinicke didn't take advantage of it.[/quote]

4:20 mark .... hurts to see. Big play TD right in front of him, where his eyes were looking with no pressure ... Heinike takes the short gain. Thats been a pattern.

there is so much good film breakdown content out there.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=MTK;1291792]Turner is doing a pretty good job, I though so last year too. Not sure why some fans are so down on him.[/quote]

He literally had us in shotgun what... 99% of the time the other night... thats great and all run the pistol but it cant be advantageous to have 1 base formation in a game ... can it?

Lol he just pisses me off sometimes with the play calls and really makes some bone head choices sometimes.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=SunnySide;1291796]4:20 mark .... hurts to see. Big play TD right in front of him, where his eyes were looking with no pressure ... Heinike takes the short gain. Thats been a pattern.

there is so much good film breakdown content out there.[/quote]

he should grow out of this and into a better coverage reader

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=MTK;1291792]Turner is doing a pretty good job, I though so last year too. Not sure why some fans are so down on him.[/quote]

Bottom 3 offense last year.

Everything seems to be short stuff and team D nowadays will give you that short stuff bc they know on a 15 play drive youll get a flag or a sack. Hard to go long drives and sustain it.

Heinike threw over 60% of his passes before the first down marker vs NYG

Seeing all this film breakdown stuff .. Turner's calling some really good big pass play concepts that just arent hitting yet.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=SunnySide;1291799]Bottom 3 offense last year.

Everything seems to be short stuff and team D nowadays will give you that short stuff bc they know on a 15 play drive youll get a flag or a sack. Hard to go long drives and sustain it.

Heinike threw over 60% of his passes before the first down marker vs NYG

Seeing all this film breakdown stuff .. Turner's calling some really good big pass play concepts that just arent hitting yet.[/quote]

Bottom 3 offense last year with myriad of issues at QB.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=SunnySide;1291799]Bottom 3 offense last year.

Everything seems to be short stuff and team D nowadays will give you that short stuff bc they know on a 15 play drive youll get a flag or a sack. Hard to go long drives and sustain it.

[B]Heinike threw over 60% of his passes before the first down marker vs NYG[/B]

Seeing all this film breakdown stuff .. Turner's calling some really good big pass play concepts that just arent hitting yet.[/quote]

This was bothering me right after the game. Now my view is let the play makers earn their money. I do hope the training wheels come off a bit more against Buffalo but against a defense like the Giants I am good with it,

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=SunnySide;1291796]4:20 mark .... hurts to see. Big play TD right in front of him, where his eyes were looking with no pressure ... Heinike takes the short gain. Thats been a pattern.

there is so much good film breakdown content out there.[/quote]

Yep, I just saw the video you posted in another thread. I like that video better than Warner's as the guy covered some positives by Heinicke too.

The bottom line is Heinicke still have a long way to go.

Re: Giants postgame
 

I really wish the NFL could broadcasts games live in All-22. Without that or watching it after, even the smartest warpather is speculating/guessing a lot of what we're seeing, especially on pass plays.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=MTK;1291792]Turner is doing a pretty good job, I though so last year too. Not sure why some fans are so down on him.[/quote]

I'm down on him because he is ultimately responsible for the effectiveness of this offense. I get that he has had a number of different QBs under center over the last 18 games, but you don't get to be the OC of an offense that consistently sits at the bottom-half of the league in pretty much every statistical category, and get a pass.

From my perspective, it feels like he has his moments, but then for no apparent reason he also seems to get away from what works. I don't know if he is trying to be too creative, or if that is on the QBs' execution. The most recent example for me is the play call that ended up in an interception towards the end of the Giants game. That was D.U.M.B. Hand the ball to your running back who was averaging over 5 yards per carry.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1291813]I'm down on him because he is ultimately responsible for the effectiveness of this offense. I get that he has had a number of different QBs under center over the last 18 games, but you don't get to be the OC of an offense that consistently sits at the bottom-half of the league in pretty much every statistical category, and get a pass.

From my perspective, it feels like he has his moments, but then for no apparent reason he also seems to get away from what works. I don't know if he is trying to be too creative, or if that is on the QBs' execution. The most recent example for me is the play call that ended up in an interception towards the end of the Giants game. That was D.U.M.B. Hand the ball to your running back who was averaging over 5 yards per carry.[/quote]

Hard to argue with Heinicke's production in this offense. It's not a bottom of the league offense anytime he's been in there.

Re: Giants postgame
 

True, Heinicke has done pretty well when in there, but that's only 2 full and 2 partial games out of the last 19. I don't know if he is doing well because of Scott Turner's game plan or in spite of it.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1291823]True, Heinicke has done pretty well when in there, but that's only 2 full and 2 partial games out of the last 19. I don't know if he is doing well because of Scott Turner's game plan or in spite of it.[/quote]

According to the tape he should be doing even better.

Re: Giants postgame
 

Good thing with Fitz being out out for 8 weeks, Taylor truly gets a chance to sink or swim in a pretty talented roster (barring injury) without any background noise. This is his team and his chance.

That throw to Seals was big balls, going out swinging baller.

Thats all any athlete could ask for. A fair chance to prove themselves .. plus 5 mil as a consolation prize if it doesnt work out.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1291792]Turner is doing a pretty good job, I though so last year too. Not sure why some fans are so down on him.[/QUOTE]1 opening drive score out of 19 games

A slow start every game.

Those are my big gripes. I think once he gets into a game he sees the defense real well and adjusts, but the offense's slow starts are simply offensive.

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Re: Giants postgame
 

[QUOTE=BaltimoreSkins;1291804]This was bothering me right after the game. Now my view is let the play makers earn their money. I do hope the training wheels come off a bit more against Buffalo but against a defense like the Giants I am good with it,[/QUOTE]I like that he takes what is there, he also takes the big shots when the game is on the line.

I think I said this before, but I feel like Heinicke is the anti-Kirk Cousins, so so stats during the meat of the game but crazy sharp/focused when the win is in the balance. Take the end of the NYG game for example, we are behind and need a shock he throws elite passes to McKissick and RSJ, but then we have the lead and he was goes into cruise control and made a mistake. He gets it back, and leads a crisp efficient 2 minute drill for a shot to win.



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Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=MTK;1291825]According to the tape he should be doing even better.[/quote]

Yeah, that's to be expected after only two starts in his NFL career. I'll give him a big pass for not seeing everything at this point.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1291831]Yeah, that's to be expected after only two starts in his NFL career. I'll give him a big pass for not seeing everything at this point.[/quote]

+1

If he keeps the job and runs with it, hopefully he's seeing the field better by the end of the season. Just needs experience - and to not get injured.