re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=Son Of Man;525469]That's why Zorn hand picked Brennan.[/quote]

I know JZ picked Brennan but he wont see any action with JC here. JC is the big piece of furniture that was left in the house when JZ moved in. He knows it will be painful (in many ways) to move out so he is trying to make it work. I havent seen enough of CB to say if he can play but I have seen enough of JC to know he cant.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

I would much rather cut our ties with JC and start fresh, but Leftwich should not be even a thread on this site.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=irish;525473]I know JZ picked Brennan but he wont see any action with JC here. JC is the big piece of furniture that was left in the house when JZ moved in. He knows it will be painful (in many ways) to move out so he is trying to make it work. I havent seen enough of CB to say if he can play but I have seen enough of JC to know he cant.[/quote]

Wait a year or two. JC is a stop gap. Which sucks cause I bought his jersey before last season.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=irish;525466]I think the notion that JC could be a borderline pro bowler is very unrealistic. At best he can be a Trent Dilfer type borderline NFL QB. I have a lot of hard core Skins fans as friends and almost to a man (and a couple of women) the only thing they agree on is that JC isnt the answer.

The part I dont see is why Zorn's fate is somehow tied to JC (a QB he didnt draft and IMO didnt want but was forced to take). He had to try to make it work but deep down he knew it just wouldnt fit. I think it would be a huge mistake to fire Zorn because JC didnt pan out. IMO it would cement the reputation of the Skins turning into the Raiders of the east coast with a nut job owner that has no plan for winning.[/quote]

Zorn was specifically brought in to develop JC; he only got the HC job because no one else (other than Fassel) wanted it. So the assumption is he would be let go if Campbell failed. If Zorn really beleives he can mold Campbell into the next Matt Hasslebeck, then his fate is tied to Campbells and this is his make or break year as coach. If Campbell succeeds, Zorn will stay. If he doesnt, theyre both gone.

On the other hand, Zorn is in a very tough situation if he doesnt believe in Campbell. At the end of a failed 2009 season, he cant get away with saying "well, i gave it two years, and Campbell didnt work out. now let me use my own guy." Snyder is not that patient. On the flip side, its hard to "give up" on Campbell after just one year in the WCO, considering all the FO invested into drafting Campbell in the first place.

So in the end, Zorn really has only two options if he wants a third year:

1) Work his magic with Campbell and turn him in to a pro-bowl caliber WCO QB by the end of this season; thereby letting the FO know Campbell is the franchise QB and that Zorn succeeded where most said he would fail; OR

2) Convince the FO sometime between now and the beginning of the season that his system works, but Campbell is going to hold it back: Hes a good QB, but isnt adapting in the system. The fans love Brennan and he's the kind of QB Snyder would love - he'd sell jerseys... but hes just not ready yet. So in that scenario, the FO must make the decision on what to do with Campbell.
(a) If they decide to keep him, Zorn can always say "i told you so" at the end of the season if Campbell doesnt work out (in a very nice way, of course). With Brennan primed and ready to go, Zorns got himself his third year.
(b)If they trade Campbell and start someone else in 2009, Zorns still essentially bought himself a 3rd year reguardless of how the team does in 2009, with Brennan as the starter in 2010.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

When, and if, Davis, Kelly, and Thomas come around I wonder what sort of effect that would have on Campbell.

I wonder what it's like for a 6'5" guy to throw to 6'3" guys versus 5'10 guys

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;525527]When, and if, Davis, Kelly, and Thomas come around I wonder what sort of effect that would have on Campbell.

I wonder what it's like for a 6'5" guy to throw to 6'3" guys versus 5'10 guys[/quote]

If these guys come around, which I expect them to, a lot of problems are solved. A lot of Campbells "problems" will be solved too.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=irish;525466]I think the notion that JC could be a borderline pro bowler is very unrealistic. At best he can be a Trent Dilfer type borderline NFL QB. I have a lot of hard core Skins fans as friends and almost to a man (and a couple of women) the only thing they agree on is that JC isnt the answer.[/quote]With a healthy OL he was putting up Pro Bowl level numbers in the first 8 games, first season in the WCO, with a below average WR corps.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;525527]When, and if, Davis, Kelly, and Thomas come around I wonder what sort of effect that would have on Campbell.

I wonder what it's like for a 6'5" guy to throw to 6'3" guys versus 5'10 guys[/quote]
It will be a beautiful thing. JCs completion % and TDs will increase having guys with a bigger "radius" (as I believe Madden so eloquently put it).

I can tell you, it's a QBs best friend to have big WRs (see Kurt Warner).

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't believe he's the savior. I believe he is a solid, competent NFL starter who hasn't reached his potential. He has the potential to be a borderline Pro Bowler, if he develops in the WCO. He will never be a Manning, Brady (future HoFer) type[/QUOTE]

Jason Campbell is not a borderline pro bowler. He never will be. This offense will have to be built from the ground up in every area too finally get our offense moving. He generates absolutley nothing. He's going to be a passable NFL quarterback who relies way too much on the checkdown and is very athletic, he does not have potential either, well just do better and put up more points with a good oline Campbell isn't going to have great strides ever. He's been in the league for three years, showed us the exact same game he showed in college, he can be a decent QB and can win, but he is not a pro bowler and never will be. The whole league has this feeling that he has all the tools but they're taking a wait and see approach to lead a team, unfortunately there isn't much left to know about him. He's one of those guys the league is always basing his performance of expectatiosn and potential rather then just simply what it is, he's a decent QB he can be our starting QB but there's a lot of better ones out there.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;525534]With a healthy OL he was putting up Pro Bowl level numbers in the first 8 games, first season in the WCO, with a below average WR corps.[/quote]

that is fing ridiculous. Moss was leading the leading receiver for the first 8 games based off statistics. He was at the top of the league in yards and touchdowns. . You all need to get off Santana he is not the problem he's our only weapon on this team and probably the only receiver who's caught a pass for more than 40 yards on the skins in the past 3 seasons. Quit trying to blame things on Moss, there isn't one WR in the league who can perform without getting any looks his way.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;525458]perhaps "undisputed future" would have been a better term, but considering the run of mediocre QBs this team has had for 15 years, being a savior here wouldnt entail much more than that.



JC didnt attack defenses because JC doesnt look at his primary target. I only attended one game in person this year (Cardninals), but we had receivers open a number of times in that game and Campbell wasnt even looking at them... he consisently (as indicated in the article i quoted) stares down his check-down guy the entire time instead of looking at his primary target.

JC is also horribly timid in the red-zone. I've heard many people say he is too afraid to make a mistake. Whether thats a fault intrinsic to Campbell, lack of confidence in our receivers, or merely a result of having to learn a new offense nearly every year for the better part of the past decade, the fact remains that it seems true. campbell is unwilling to take chances. While that is one reason why he doesnt throw that many INTs, its also a reason he doesnt throw many touchdowns either.

If Campbell was 2 years younger and had 2 additional years on his contract at a low figure, i wouldnt be wanting to trade him. but the fact is, this is the last year we can realistically trade him and get something in return. Campbell hasnt shown me enough to think he's the future here.

i work in risk management, so i'll put it another way - the risk that campbell fails to become a successful west coast QB in 2009 and we have to look elsewhere for a QB FAR outweighs the risk that if we traded him for a 2nd rounder (or more); he would then go on to his new team and become a perennial pro-bowl QB and we would regret making a rash decision.

By sticking with Campbell, we are really going "all in" this year. If Campbell fails, it means not only is Campbell gone (atleast as a starter) next year, but also that Zorn and the WCO are gone too and we build from scratch again in 2010. New coach; new system; new quarterback. I would argue that sticking with Campbell puts this franchise back far more than moving him now, getting something in return, and keeping the offense in tact. On the flip side, if we were going to "blow this thing up," next year wouldnt be a bad year to do it.[/quote]

I WENT TO THE CINCY GAME AND THERE WAS NOT ONE ROUTE OVER 25 YARDS!!! This is when the Offense was not doing well. Early on in the Cards game we were very physical and were trying to hammer them with our line play. I agree that JC locks in to Santana way too much! But he has enough, if not tons more than any quarterback who led the Skins to any Superbowl... It may be the cast around him...

But I agree that this is the year that counts! Show me something JC!

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

I think if the offensive line had held up, Campbell would have had a great season. Although we need good QB on this team, not a great QB. I mean look at Drew Brees, carried his team through the season, led the league in passing yards, yet in the end they didn't have anything to show for b/c they didn't have a defense, and they had a suspect running game. As we've stated on this site before, we need a balanced team, because I don't think we have an area where the team is at an elite level.

Our defense was good, but not great; the same for our running game (well at least at the beginning of the season, it was very good). Personally, I don't think we can turn this team around by fixing [U]just one thing[/U]. We talk about replacing Jason Campbell, but you forget the offensive line. So what if we trade Campbell, if you can't fix your offensive line, not even Tom Brady could improve this whole team. Our defense was a good defense, but yes we should improve on that pass rush. Our Special Teams play was horrible, so there's another area that we need to fix, make sure we have a good kicker and punter that can help us win the close games (kicker) and win the field position battle.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=Ruhskins;525553]I think if the offensive line had held up, Campbell would have had a great season. Although we need good QB on this team, not a great QB. I mean look at Drew Brees, carried his team through the season, led the league in passing yards, yet in the end they didn't have anything to show for b/c they didn't have a defense, and they had a suspect running game. As we've stated on this site before, we need a balanced team, because I don't think we have an area where the team is at an elite level.

Our defense was good, but not great; the same for our running game (well at least at the beginning of the season, it was very good). Personally, I don't think we can turn this team around by fixing [U]just one thing[/U]. We talk about replacing Jason Campbell, but you forget the offensive line. So what if we trade Campbell, if you can't fix your offensive line, not even Tom Brady could improve this whole team. Our defense was a good defense, but yes we should improve on that pass rush. Our Special Teams play was horrible, so there's another area that we need to fix, make sure we have a good kicker and punter that can help us win the close games (kicker) and win the field position battle.[/quote]

I agree with everything you said. Which is why our approach to free agency doesn't work. A team has to find its own way to make it work. Big ben isn't necessarily a perfect QB but he's a true steeler and they've found out how to make it work with him. Or you could go the Warner route and get one of those QBs who just wins games. We are not looking at that situation. We just need to make it work with Campbell, and that means getting a line that isn't fing ridiculously old and can't last 16 games. Brennan should be given a shot if Campbell doesn't perform he's going to be good. The only position that matters what round you were picked in in this league is WR, CB, T, DE, other then that its a crab shoot. Half the QBs in this league starting were never expected to be a franchise QB.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;525534]With a healthy OL he was putting up Pro Bowl level numbers in the first 8 games, first season in the WCO, with a below average WR corps.[/quote]

He also managed to have the best RB in the league by 300 yards when he was putting up those numbers.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=gaudiomatt;525555]I agree with everything you said. Which is why our approach to free agency doesn't work. A team has to find its own way to make it work. Big ben isn't necessarily a perfect QB but he's a true steeler and they've found out how to make it work with him. Or you could go the Warner route and get one of those QBs who just wins games. We are not looking at that situation. We just need to make it work with Campbell, and that means getting a line that isn't fing ridiculously old and can't last 16 games. Brennan should be given a shot if Campbell doesn't perform he's going to be good. The only position that matters what round you were picked in in this league is WR, CB, T, DE, other then that its a crab shoot. Half the QBs in this league starting were never expected to be a franchise QB.[/quote]

Would you start Brennan if Campbell begins to fail because he has to run for his life due to a crappy offensive line? I agree that if JC fails on his own, we should give Brennan a chance (like when Brunell sucked, JC was given the start). But if our o-line turns JC into a punching bag, then putting Brennan there would like when Spurrier traumatized Ramsey with the lack of protection.