Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=GTripp0012;737678]'Cause we paid through the roof?

One thing the Eagles simply weren't concerned about re: trading McNabb, was being caught completely without a quarterback. And they knew if they kept him for 2010 to make one last run at it, they wouldn't be able to generate a return for him. We gave them a second and a third, that's kind of a no brainer deal with their quarterback depth.

Put me down in the category of people who think that Vick simply can't perform at a level similar to McNabb in the same offense. But also, if the worst thing that happens to the Eagles this year is finding out that Kevin Kolb wasn't ready to be the object of Andy Reid's dreams, it's going to be a fairly good year for Philly fans.

The problem comes if Vick goes 1-3 in the next four weeks, then they go back to Kolb and completely waste a year for the development of their quarterbacks and receivers. That would be a disaster.[/quote]

Wouldn't it have been a bigger disaster if they put Kolb back in this week and they went 1-3 over the next 4 weeks? Then you would have everyone wondering why they didn't just stick with the hot hand in the first place. And after every loss the media would be peppering the Eagles with Vick questions.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=GTripp0012;737678]'Cause we paid through the roof?

One thing the Eagles simply weren't concerned about re: trading McNabb, was being caught completely without a quarterback. And they knew if they kept him for 2010 to make one last run at it, they wouldn't be able to generate a return for him. We gave them a second and a third, that's kind of a no brainer deal with their quarterback depth.

Put me down in the category of people who think that Vick simply can't perform at a level similar to McNabb in the same offense. But also, if the worst thing that happens to the Eagles this year is finding out that Kevin Kolb wasn't ready to be the object of Andy Reid's dreams, it's going to be a fairly good year for Philly fans.

The problem comes if Vick goes 1-3 in the next four weeks, then they go back to Kolb and completely waste a year for the development of their quarterbacks and receivers. That would be a disaster.[/quote]

Well Reid said he was sticking with Vick because he was playing with a hot hand right now. If he looses a game because of poor play I think they pull Vick.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

I don't think Fat Andy planned on Vick being more than Mr. Wildcat. There was no competition in the offseason, so he already decided on Kolb a long time ago. Then Vick comes in and lights it up. Bascially, I think he's not good with dealing with "shocks" or surprises. He was still clinging to his "plan" and Vick came and made a mess out of it. He may still be hoping that he still implement "Plan Kolb", as I'll call it.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;737844]I don't think Fat Andy planned on Vick being more than Mr. Wildcat. There was no competition in the offseason, so he already decided on Kolb a long time ago. Then Vick comes in and lights it up. Bascially, I think he's not good with dealing with "shocks" or surprises. He was still clinging to his "plan" and Vick came and made a mess out of it.[/quote]

Bingo. The NFL is all about who's hot right now; just ask the four or five quarterbacks who just got benched. And we'll probably see a few more before the season ends. Hell, Kurt Warner just might come out of retirement before it's all over with.

Andy Reid went against his initial judgements about Vick based on the information and film he had to go on from training camp and the previous season. I think he was right in making this change sooner rather than later. The fans and the pundits will always play the what if game with McNabb vs. Vick vs. Kolb. That's what we do, but coaches have to get ready for the next opponent and field the best 22 guys to start on Sunday.

Bottom line, losing with MIke Vick based on how he's playing right now was more palatable than the prospect of losing with Kevin Kolb who doesn't appear ready for prime time. At least right now.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=firstdown;737602]Ok he has had two good games so lets not make him King Vick until a few more games.[/quote]
Huh? Why are you replying to me then?

[quote=GTripp0012;737678]The problem comes if Vick goes 1-3 in the next four weeks, then they go back to Kolb and completely waste a year for the development of their quarterbacks and receivers. That would be a disaster.
[/quote]
Would that be a waste though?
Imo Reid is taking a gamble on how far Vick has progressed as a QB.
1st year starting QBs struggle, even Aaron Rodgers.
Then you factor in a 1st year starter behind a suspect OL it doesn't sound like a recipe for winning games. (Or keeping the QB upright and confident)
But, if Vick has developed as a passer Reid probably feels like despite the OL Vick gives them a chance to win now.
And how can any coach pass up a [I][B]chance[/B][/I] to win?
That has to trump the development time for Kolb, especially since the development would be hindered by the OL weaknesses.
Imo the risk is worth it despite the outcome.
Its like the basketball saying goes you can't make the shots you don't take.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;737579]Call me crazy, but if someone put a 19Million tag on me, I would sign that in a heartbeat, and I think Vick would too.[/quote]

Yeah, he would sign it, and then they'd trade him and he'd get a new deal with his new team. His new team wouldn't take him without a new deal, so Vick would essentially be faced with riding the bench or accepting a different, longer-term, contract with another team.

However, there's always the risk that Vick is only in it for money, and wouldn't mind riding the bench for $19M. I guess it's a tougher call than I originally thought, but it worked out for the Chargers and Brees.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=12thMan;737849]Bingo. The NFL is all about who's hot right now; just ask the four or five quarterbacks who just got benched. And we'll probably see a few more before the season ends. Hell, Kurt Warner just might come out of retirement before it's all over with.

Andy Reid went against his initial judgements about Vick based on the information [B]and film he had to go on from training camp and the previous season.[/B] I think he was right in making this change sooner rather than later. The fans and the pundits will always play the what if game with McNabb vs. Vick vs. Kolb. That's what we do, but coaches have to get ready for the next opponent and field the best 22 guys to start on Sunday.

Bottom line, losing with MIke Vick based on how he's playing right now was more palatable than the prospect of losing with [B]Kevin Kolb who doesn't appear ready for prime time. [/B]At least right now.[/quote]

The Vick film from last season showed a player who was pretty washed up. Instead Vick was out of football shape and rusty.

As for KK I don't think we can say he is not ready for prime time based off hi play in one half.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

He's played more than one half in his career. That was his 13th game and He hasn't impressed.

Also:
[QUOTE][B]ESPN's Sal Paolantonio reports that the Eagles received "numerous calls" from "several teams" about Kevin Kolb's availability following coach Andy Reid's press conference Tuesday night.[/B]
Kolb is still very well thought of around the NFL, which bodes well for his value as a "hold" in dynasty leagues. Asked Wednesday if Kolb would be in Philly past the October 19 trade deadline, Reid replied "Listen, I can't predict anything down that far, nobody in this league can do that." The Browns are definitely interested. The Bills, Cardinals, and Raiders might be too.[/QUOTE]

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5604002&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines]Philadelphia Eagles hear from several teams about Kevin Kolb, source says - ESPN[/url]

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=Mattyk;737822]Wouldn't it have been a bigger disaster if they put Kolb back in this week and they went 1-3 over the next 4 weeks? Then you would have everyone wondering why they didn't just stick with the hot hand in the first place. And after every loss the media would be peppering the Eagles with Vick questions.[/quote]I'm specifically ignoring the media implications of the decision. If the Eagles were conscious about what the media thought of their actions, they wouldn't have traded McNabb to the Redskins.

From a developmental perspective, winning or losing with Michael Vick doesn't do very much for you. He's in the last year of a backup-quarterbacks' contract. Kolb is in the first year of his starting contract. If you thought you could win with either, you'd probably want to play Kolb. If you thought you were screwed with either, you'd probably want to play Kolb.

I'm not exactly sure what playing Michael Vick does for the Eagles. They still seem to be long-term believers in Kolb, but even still, I think they really, really are hoping that Vick plays well and they can sign him to a long term deal to make him the starter. They might feel that Vick is a more worthwhile project than Kolb.

Again, though, DeSean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin are just wasting their time learning how to best help Michael Vick win games. Anything they learn with him at QB is practically useless when anyone else steps under center. I would trust Andy Reid with any quarterback conundrum to do the right thing, but believing in Mike Vick as a long term QB solution is just beyond the level of risk tolerance I would demonstrate as a high-stress decision maker. There's just limited evidence that Vick can be a useful cog in a passing offense.

Even from Reid's perspective, this is a highly speculative move. It's a complete 180 from the McNabb trade, which was just a big age-risk dumpoff on the Redskins.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

Little DeSean Jackson is going to have to learn run blocking downfield with Vick playing QB.

He'll be more open to getting decked and hospitalized.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=GTripp0012;737927]If you thought you could win with either, you'd probably want to play Kolb. If you thought you were screwed with either, you'd probably want to play Kolb.[/quote]

Like i said in my previous post, what if they don't agree with either of your above scenario's?
What if they think we can win now with Vick but cannot win now with Kolb, although they still have faith in him.

[quote]I'm not exactly sure what playing Michael Vick does for the Eagles.[/quote]
They may believe he gives them a chance to be competive now (in a weak NFC East) that Kolb doesn't due to youth and OL issues.
[quote]I would trust Andy Reid with any quarterback conundrum to do the right thing, but believing in Mike Vick as a long term QB solution is just beyond the level of risk tolerance I would demonstrate as a high-stress decision maker. There's just limited evidence that Vick can be a useful cog in a passing offense.[/quote]

I think the gamble that Reid is taking is wether or not Vick has developed as a passer. And if Vick has indeed improved as passer then his past performance isn't an indicator of his future performance.

[quote]Even from Reid's perspective, this is a highly speculative move. It's a complete 180 from the McNabb trade, which was just a big age-risk dumpoff on the Redskins.[/quote]

We never really know the reasoning behind McNabb being dealt, i think it was more or less forced on Reid.
Also, we have to consider that Reid himself didn't know how far Vick had progressed until he saw him play something other then wildcat in a real game.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

Maybe i'm not the football expert, but other than hurt feelings of Kevin Kolb, why isn't Vick a viable long-term solution for the Eagles at QB?

He is 30 years old, healthy, seems to have changed his ways and is now a pass-first QB, who runs as a last result. This is the exact opposite of his time in Atlanta.

He has had 2 years to rest, and has not abused his body. Still has an absolute rifle arm. Why is it so unthinkable that he could be Philly's starting QB for the next 5 seasons, maybe even more???

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

To me it's pretty obvious what Vick does for the Eagles right now. They're having OL issues and he's much more mobile than Kolb, Vick is playing out of his mind, what else is there to say?

I sure as heck would feel a lot better about playing the Eagles with Kolb in there than Vick.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

2 years' rest or 2 years' setback from being out of the game? Could go either way.

We'll find out soon...the Lions aren't a big test.

I'm thinking it was what they'll get from Vick...AND an upgrade over Kolb.

Re: Andy Reid names Michael Vick as team's starting quarterback
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;737946]Maybe i'm not the football expert, but other than hurt feelings of Kevin Kolb, why isn't Vick a viable long-term solution for the Eagles at QB?

He is 30 years old, healthy, seems to have changed his ways and is now a pass-first QB, who runs as a last result. This is the exact opposite of his time in Atlanta.

He has had 2 years to rest, and has not abused his body. Still has an absolute rifle arm. Why is it so unthinkable that he could be Philly's starting QB for the next 5 seasons, maybe even more???[/quote]The logic is simply:

1. He wasn't a viable long-term QB option age 21-29 for many different reasons;
2. Quarterbacks, as a general group, aren't viable ages 30-36;
3. An exception (meaningless here) to #2 includes those QBs we were viable between 21 and 29;

Conclusion: Vick probably isn't viable between ages 30-36.

There are always exceptions to every rule, but those exceptions aren't based on being passable for two games.