Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1035346]With the same corresponding increase in violent crime? You must be one of those wealthy elitist types that won't be exposed to the resultant carnage? Good for you![/quote]

You apparently are not aware that [I]ad hominen[/I] arguments against the person are not logically valid arguments. The only arguments that you have made in this thread is that those who want to reduce guns are either hippies or wealthy elitists (which, by the way, I am not).

These arguments of yours are logically fallacious while they also do not reflect reality.

Please offer a real argument with real data.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1035246]Funny you call me a gun nut and I don't even own a gun.[/quote]



Where did I ever say you have to own one to be one ?

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1035358]Yes. Well documented, too.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk[/quote]

Links?

Everything I'm reading says their presence is rare (and usually only on higher risk destinations) as there simply aren't enough of them to cover all flights.

[url=http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_there_a_federal_air_marshal_on_every_flight]Is there a federal air marshal on every flight[/url]

[url=http://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/flight/modern/airport-security8.htm]HowStuffWorks "How Airport Security Works"[/url]

[url=http://www.omg-facts.com/Interesting/About-5-Of-U-S-Flights-Have-Undercover-A/52884]About 5% of U.S. flights have undercover air marshals. - OMG Facts[/url]

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2008/TRAVEL/03/25/siu.air.marshals/]Sources: Air marshals missing from almost all flights - CNN.com[/url]

[QUOTE=Lotus;1035359]Please offer a real argument with real data.[/QUOTE]

I'm not repeating myself, you can go back and reread the various gun threads, spend some time with John Lott's book I cite as a validating source, maybe check his blog.

Oh, and be sure to register any Sasquatch you've discovered.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1035364]I'm not repeating myself, you can go back and reread the various gun threads, spend some time with John Lott's book I cite as a validating source, maybe check his blog.

[B]Oh, and be sure to register any Sasquatch you've discovered[/B].[/quote]

Gotta admit, i did lol at this.

Rat, why does everyone have to be an elitest or hippy who want resonable gun control? I just think the unfortuanately some dont deserve the right to bear arms and some arms should be unbearable because we as a nation abuse these powerful weapons too often.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Chico23231;1035367]Gotta admit, i did lol at this.

Rat, why does everyone have to be an elitest or hippy who want resonable gun control? I just think the unfortuanately some dont deserve the right to bear arms and some arms should be unbearable because we as a nation abuse these powerful weapons too often.[/quote]

People often resort to insults when they've got nothing else.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

People need to see this .......


[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GztAoqje0gI#t=26]Kids & Guns - YouTube[/url]

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1035346]With the same corresponding increase in violent crime? You must be one of those wealthy elitist types that won't be exposed to the resultant carnage? Good for you![/quote]

One could reduce gun violence by taking guns off the street as a first step. Then one can tackle the violent crime.

Burglary is less of a trauma than mass shootings of kids. But if you would like to argue that you would prefer to have masses of dead kids than burglaries, go ahead. However, if you are not willing to make this argument, then you logically must recognize that reducing mass gun violence against kids is a priority and that the Australian solution responds to this.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

Most teachers have more education then cops but some find it hard that if one desired they could take traing to safely carry a gun. I also hear about hitting others but I would guess that 100% of the other people would be getting the hell out of they way and ducking from the assult in the first place.

You guys do know that Utah allows teachers to carry and I think they have been for 12 yrs now.

[QUOTE=Lotus;1035379]Burglary is less of a trauma than mass shootings of kids.[/QUOTE]

Are burglaries counted as violent crime? No. That makes your argument invalid.

[QUOTE=Lotus;1035379] But if you would like to argue that you would prefer to have masses of dead kids than burglaries, go ahead. [/QUOTE]

Ah, the 'Pretentious Douche' school of rhetoric! Go milk a Unicorn.

p.s. I'm from the 'E Cartman' school, myself.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/27/us/utah-teachers-weapons/index.html]200 Utah educators take class on handling, having concealed gun in class - CNN.com[/url]



Anger over map of gun permit owners "Guns have no place in our schools. Period," Dennis Van Roekel and Randi Weingarten, the presidents of the two biggest U.S. teachers' unions, said in a joint statement. "We must do everything we can to reduce the possibility of any gunfire in schools, and concentrate on ways to keep all guns off school property and ensure the safety of children and school employees.

But to Clark Aposhian -- president of the Utah Shooting Sports Council, which ran Thursday's event in West Valley City -- it's a matter of giving teachers, school administrators, janitors and others the same rights, when licensed, to carry a concealed weapon in their place of work as others have.

"What we're talking about is not arming teachers," he said, contending that the approach of locking doors and hiding behind a desk "just isn't doing it anymore." "We're simply not taking away that ability of lawful self-defense within a school."

For 12 years, Utah educators have been able to do just that, even if only a small fraction do bring guns into their workplace. The state's concealed weapon law allows for a person to have, on his person or in a secure lockbox, a weapon inside a school, Aposhian said.

If they do have a loaded gun, their principals, school districts, and local police departments wouldn't even know, given the restrictions in place limiting who is told about who has a concealed weapons permit.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1035387]Are burglaries counted as violent crime? No. That makes your argument invalid.



Ah, the 'Pretentious Douche' school of rhetoric! Go milk a Unicorn.

p.s. I'm from the 'E Cartman' school, myself.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk[/quote]

Once again, instead of engaging in reason, you engage in personal attack. As Matty indicated, such is the resort of those who have no argument.

Please bring a rational argument armed with data to the table or admit that you have no such argument.

[QUOTE=Lotus;1035391]Once again, instead of engaging in reason, you engage in personal attack.[/QUOTE]
Simply answer my question. Is burglary a violent crime?

If not, which we both agree it's not, why are you using a deliberately skewed measure to underwrite your argument?

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1035392]Simply answer my question. Is burglary a violent crime?

If not, which we both agree it's not, why are you using a deliberately skewed measure to underwrite your argument?[/quote]

Yes, I would argue that burglary is a violent crime. That is why I used it as an example. But I am happy to let you have your way and agree that it is not. No problem. You win that one.

So let's use your own example of assault from post 21 and paste it into my challenge:

Assault is less of a trauma than mass shootings of kids. But if you would like to argue that you would prefer to have masses of dead kids than assaults, go ahead. However, if you are not willing to make this argument, then you logically must recognize that reducing mass gun violence against kids is a priority and that the Australian solution responds to this.

So which is worse, assaults or bunches of dead kids?

If you say "dead kids," then you should support the Australian solution, because that is precisely what the Aussies stopped.

[QUOTE=Lotus;1035393] Yes, I would argue that burglary is a violent crime. That is why I used it as an example. [/QUOTE]

The legal definition would prove you wrong.

[QUOTE=Lotus;1035393] But I am happy to let you have your way and agree that it is not. No problem. You win that one.

So let's use your own example of assault from post 21 and paste it into my challenge:

So which is worse, assaults or bunches of dead kids?

[/QUOTE]

Due to the rarity of 'bunches of dead kids' I'll go with 'assault', even though I'd compare it with rape for a more honest discussion.