Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=Dogtag;216994]I'll concede to put JC Campbell in if you can guarantee that JC will not lose any games. [/quote]

Well that's obviously not going to happen, but I do believe, without a shadow of a doubt, that Campbell would not lose any more games than Brunell would.

Re: Bench Brunell
 

[quote=Mattyk72;216383]I'm not even sure what good it would do at this point. The run AND pass blocking both stink right now. The offense has issues across the board.[/quote]

yeah, pass protection broke down, but not until they knew we HAD to throw. Early in the game he had a lot of plays w/good protection. Were wr's open? I can't say, but he did miss a couple throws pretty badly, one to Cooley dropped 5-10 ft. low in the turf.
Part of the qb pressure blitzes is due to the lack of respect they had for him to burn them on it. I would like to have faith in MB, but its getting tough.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I'm a Redskins fan. I support the coaching staff and their decisions as to who is ready to lead the team and who is not. If MB is the QB then he has my support. If another QB is put into play then he will have my full support.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda ... doesn't cut it. I hate losing more than most, but kicking someone when they are down does not help them or the team regain their winning ways.

Re: Bench Brunell
 

[quote=Mattyk72;216383]I'm not even sure what good it would do at this point. The run AND pass blocking both stink right now. The offense has issues across the board.[/quote]

I don't see it like that Matty.
I think Brunell is the root cause for most of our offensive issues. It is a ripple effect. His QB play puts our O-line and running game, as well as our D in bad positions.

O-line[LIST][*]MB's play makes blitzing impossible to defend since he can't effectively throw to the open guy, especially if the open guy is over the middle[/LIST]Running[LIST][*]simple here, teams don't have to worry about he pass. Safety's can creep up, and LB's can tee off.[/LIST]Defense[LIST][*]backs are against the wall with bad feild position and we are constantly losing the TOP battle.[/LIST]

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=wilsowilso;216987]This sounds funny saying this but I hope we lose badly to the Texans. I just can't bear the thought of Brunell's last stand anymore. I want him to play so bad that Gibbs has no choice to sit him for fear of losing the team. The problem is that we will probably barely win and Brunell will struggle on and remain the starter for several more games. We fans deserve better than to have to watch Brunell learn the system well enough just to barely keep his job. He is done. Saunders put it best when he said Kurt Warner won the Super Bowl his first year in this system. Mark Brunell please go away.[/quote]

I think the worst thing that could happen to this team is for Brunell to struggle through a win. I totally agree with you.

Unless we totally anihilate Texas Sunday, I see no basis for sticking with Brunell for another three games.

Re: Time to bench Brunell?
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;216692]Well, Many people said the same thing about Brunell last season. You don't have to throw 80 yards to win the SB in this league. Regarding winning seasons, he gives us our ONLY shot this year. If we change QB's now, we are done. Like it or not, with Brunell, we have our best chance. He must have some protection. He (like most QB's) have little chance when running all over the field to evade tacklers. He didn't cause a dozen penalties. He didn't fail to control, the Cowboys O in critical situations. To state that nobody respects Brunell is ridiculous, and the season is lost????? Come on, it's two games. Terrible start, but hardly a season. If you blame him for this.......situation, then it is only fair to praise him for his direction of the team to a 10-6 last year. Don't be confused that I advocate Brunell as a..........closet Montana. he is what we got until JC comes of age. As many have already stated, we don't need to make him a David Carr behind our NO-line. I, like the rest in Skins land am a pissed off SOB, but to make a foolish, emotional snap decision makes a potential losing season into a guarantee. We don't want to kill JC bringing him in now. Todd ain't it. WE don't want to do the Spurrier rotating QB either[/QUOTE]

huge credit to Brunell for last year, he stuck it through 2004, finally learned the offense (and his injury limitations) and got us into the playoffs with his smart decisions and on the fly thinking.

but for better or worse, it's a new year, and we have a new offense and coordinator. what do we gain by going through all the trouble of having Brunell master this system to the tune of last year?

a 37yr old QB and a young, talented and ultimately inexperienced QB on the sidelines who'll have to learn (ie. lose) this all again eventually.

Re: Time to bench Brunell?
 

[quote=illdefined;217014]huge credit to Brunell for last year, he stuck it through 2004, finally learned the offense (and his injury limitations) and got us into the playoffs with his smart decisions and on the fly thinking.

but for better or worse, it's a new year, and we have a new offense and coordinator. what do we gain by going through all the trouble of having Brunell master this system to the tune of last year?

a 37yr old QB and a young, talented and ultimately inexperienced QB on the sidelines who'll have to learn (ie. lose) this all again eventually.[/quote] This is exactly what I was trying to say about 100 posts ago. Why keep wasting time on the QB of the past instead of getting the QB of the future some playing time?

Re: Time to bench Brunell?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;216761]I have to agree with that too. I watched the Falcons game and watch them totally own the Buccaneers all day. This is the same, awesome Tampa Bay defense that we watch every year and they were totally outmanned. When are we going to dominate games like that?[/quote]

as soon as we get a superstar QB like Mike Vick, he's totally ran circles on the two top defenses in the league.....if they cant control old ass brad johnson and blowover Bledsoe, Vick is going to have GW with a big ass headache :spank:

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I say give him one more week even though hes sucks were really not bringing the team down by putting campbell in. Brunell is scared to stand in the pocket and hes scared to take a hit. He rolls out when he doesnt have to. he takes sacks easily and when he tries to get rid of the ball early he throws too early and inaccurate. Also, can somebody tell me how many deep shots we took? how about zero. He took one shot into the endzone and it got picked off in double coverage. Santana had his man beat deep and Brunell tucked the ball and went down instead of chucking it. We have so much talent on offense and brunell needs to let them make plays instead of trying to play conservative. Even at the end of the game with no nothing to lose, he is still afraid to risk anything. I seriously do not understand what mark was thinking in that game. In my opinion he needs to play great next week for us not to put campbell in.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Gibbs should base his decision on the results of this poll.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

who the hell are ya gonna replace brunnell with?todd collins?i would replace him with campbell,not collins!with all due respect to brunnell,it is very hard to throw a pass when you are on your back every play is'nt it?and has the redskins defense other than washington and taylor even showed up at any games this year?

Re: Brunell Solely Responsible for Loss?
 

not brunnell's fault,he did play badly though.the guy had no protection last night,and the defense could'nt have tackled me last night,and i'm over 40 and
missing 6 discs in my back!wt hell is the defense??????

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

one more week. not the biggest competition coming up next week.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=VTSkins897;217042]one more week. not the biggest competition coming up next week.[/quote]

well if they do'nt find somebody to block#1 draft pick mario williams next week,brunnell wo'nt make it out of the 1st series!we could always trade for marcus vick!(rofl)

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[QUOTE=VTSkins897;217042]one more week. not the biggest competition coming up next week.[/QUOTE]

sad to say, but people are saying that about US in Houston right now.

Re: Brunell Solely Responsible for Loss?
 

brunell is our biggest problem in my mind. yeah we're hurting in some others areas (DB) but it all starts there i think. the defense has played rather poorly but it'd be nice to give them some rest.

they actually started to do okay in the second half and ST i thought might spark them but....... shit no. in my mind we're gonna possibly need a look at QB after this week pending the outcome. it's really hard to say right now.

Re: Brunell Solely Responsible for Loss?
 

Ladell sucked as a runner, and as a blocker. wiped out our ground dimension then we had to pass, couldn't stop a blitzer.

T.J. sucked too, but i'll give him slack time because he's new. and at least when HE runs straight smack into somebody like Ladell does, he may actually get some positive yardage.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Pull Brunell already? NO!

Let's give EVERYONE, including Brunell a chance to get comfortable with the new Saunders playbook first.

Let Portis come back and give us a running attack AND block in front of Brunell first. We won't have a passing game until we can get defenses to respect our running game.

Remember last year...we started out playing badly and were one win away from the NFC championship, with Brunell leading the way.

I saw some bright spots in Brunell's game. Despite being pressured on every play from not having Portis back there to block or get the defense out of pass rush mode, I saw Brunell avoid some sacks and big losses with his legs. Dallas sacked him 6 times, but they should've had a few more. He made SOME nice throws, so I don't think his arm has left him, just his confidence in the playbook. Campbell has the same number of practice days under the new system as Brunell has, without the experience.

We're one loss behind everyone in the division, it's NOT panic time. We seem to start out slow every year and come on strong in the end. When we get Portis and Springs back, it will help IMMENSELY.

We should get our first win in week 3, with or without Portis. We could even consider resting him to make sure he's as healthy as possible for the Jags in week 4.

Even with our watered-down secondary, we played great for the most part on defense. Rumph and Kenny Wright had some great plays, but also had a lot of penalties too. Knocking the TD pass away from Owens was huge at the time. Speaking of knocking and Owens, Sean Taylor rocked him all night. It was great to watch. Arch had some nice hits on him too and led us in tackles. Punishing Owens like we did almost made up for losing, it was great to watch and no one else in the league deserves Taylor's wrath like Owens does. Frost averaged 51.6 yards a punt. That's awesome, especially for him. He seems to have found his foot. Hall made a 39-yard FG. I was cringing when he walked onto the field but he made a perfect kick.

Watching the self-annointed "best player in the NFL" get 3 catches for 19 yards and a broken finger was VERY satisfying.

Rock Cartright can return kicks. Who knew? Even Madden said "how does Dallas let a guy named Rock do that to them?" :D

Yes, we lost but the game wasn't THAT ugly. I thought we played well on defense for the first 3 quarters. We're missing 2 VERY KEY PLAYERS including one of the best RBs in the NFL and we were still in the game for most of the game. It hurts to lose to the Cowboys, but I saw improvements in many areas over last week. We lost 6 out of 8 games at one point last season but we stepped up when it mattered. We've only improved our roster over the offseason and we'll get better every week. If the playbook is really 700 pages, I can completely understand the leaning curve.

Be thankful there is no undefeated team in the NFC East. We're still in it. I watched the Eagles and Giants game and they didn't impress me very much. Dallas, especially Bledsoe, isn't Super Bowl caliber. When our offense begins rolling like Saunders offenses can, we WILL be the top team in the division. I think benching Brunell right now would only set us back a few weeks as Campbell has to start where Brunell did, in week 1. Even if Campbell does get the offense, it would likely shave 2 wins off our final record, something we can't afford if we want to be in the playoffs in this division.

I have faith in Brunell and Gibbs. Any team that knew we were going to be passing (or trying to) could shut down the passing game. Dallas knew Betts and Duckett were NOT going to replace Portis' role. It was bound to happen.

The last time we were 0-2 under Gibbs, it was 1989. We finished with 10 wins. This year, 10 wins will get us in the postseason.

Don't jump off the bandwagon like Cowboys fans jump ON it.

Hail to the Redskins.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Cheers Buster, cheers

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=redskinsfanatic;217045]well if they do'nt find somebody to block#1 draft pick mario williams next week,brunnell wo'nt make it out of the 1st series!we could always trade for marcus vick!(rofl)[/quote]

You mean the Mario Williams who has 5 tackles and 0 sacks in 2 games?

:D

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;217066]Cheers Buster, cheers[/quote]

No need to get drunk over the loss. :)

Re: Brunell Solely Responsible for Loss?
 

[quote=illdefined;217051]Ladell sucked as a runner, and as a blocker. wiped out our ground dimension then we had to pass, couldn't stop a blitzer.

T.J. sucked too, but i'll give him slack time because he's new. and at least when HE runs straight smack into somebody like Ladell does, he may actually get some positive yardage.[/quote]

Betts has performed really badly while subbing for Portis.

TJ's pass protection was not at all good (this was not the case in ATL, so it is probably just a system thing), but his running was solid. He really should have been in on the 3rd and one where Betts got stoned. One of the demotions should be Betts. TJ should be the backup.

Re: Brunell Solely Responsible for Loss?
 

[quote=RiggoRules;217078]Betts has performed really badly while subbing for Portis.

TJ's pass protection was not at all good (this was not the case in ATL, so it is probably just a system thing), but his running was solid. He really should have been in on the 3rd and one where Betts got stoned. One of the demotions should be Betts. TJ should be the backup.[/quote]

He probably will be once he has more than a week of playing under his belt.

Betts has a LOT more practice under this "complicated" system I keep hearing about.

Ladell certainly didn't help himself stay ahead of Duckett last night, but we now have to wonder if he'll get his kick returning job back from Rock.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=Buster;217064]Pull Brunell already? NO!

Let's give EVERYONE, including Brunell a chance to get comfortable with the new Saunders playbook first.

Remember last year...we started out playing badly and were one win away from the NFC championship, with Brunell leading the way.

Yes, we lost but the game wasn't THAT ugly. I thought we played well on defense for the first 3 quarters. We're missing 2 VERY KEY PLAYERS including one of the best RBs in the NFL and we were still in the game for most of the game. It hurts to lose to the Cowboys, but I saw improvements in many areas over last week. We lost 6 out of 8 games at one point last season but we stepped up when it mattered. We've only improved our roster over the offseason and we'll get better every week. If the playbook is really 700 pages, I can completely understand the leaning curve.

[/quote]

I think it is time to bench him (hear me out I am not trash talking or anything)

Brunell, if you can remember, has not been good since his injury last year. The Redskins offense has been depending on Portis to win the game all by himself.

Eversince his game in Tampa he has not done anything to help the Skins. He's more of a burden, Portis could be better off with out him. Teams are not respecing the pass, so they bring as many men as they can to the line and let Brunell win the game with his arm and it is not happening. He hasn't thrown a TD yet this year.

The other reason why the Skins went so far last year and are kept in games till the end is their great defense, but they can only do so much. I mean last night it wasn't untill late in the game that the Cowboys took them out of the game. they were down by a TD right till the end of the 3rd qurater.

I watched Campbell at Auburn and thought he was good enough to win games, the sooner they get him started they better. Yes he will lose a game or two but that is how they learn. As a Cowboys fan, I would love to see Romo in now. Gibbs and Parcells are in love with their QBs who are proven to be way past their prime.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

nevermind again

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

We need a playmaker at that position. There are plenty of QBs NOT named Brunell that are out there who would NOT lose us games, like Collins and many others we could have gotten. Campbell could be that playmaker.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

campbell campbell campbell!

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I've never been a fan of Brunell, but when he played well last year I gave him his props. But you know what, career over. He ran into pressure way too many times. Just trying to run out and running right into pressure that probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere near him. Brunell was, as usual, missing wide open throws, just like the preseason. Campbell has sat, he's been dedicated to learning this offense, and if we're going to have poor play from the QB position, I want one that's learning from his mistakes rather than regressing and just soaking up some money to end his career.

Brunell didn't get great protection, but a lot of that pressure he brought on himself. Pump faking, not making good reads, running out of the pocket or throwing way before he had real pressure. Some plays he didn't have a chance, but you'll get that sometimes. The INT to R. Will. was just an awful ball.

It's time for the Campbell era. I'm sorry Joe Gibbs -- this pickup failed, time to admit it and move on.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

I'm wondering....

There has been quite a bit of assumption on this board that Gibbs will go down with the Brunell ship. I'm questioning if that is really accurate.

He also has a pretty big investment and commitment in JC.

He's been watching the same games as everyone else and is clearly most unhappy. Watching his presser after the game last night, he seemed to take great pains to not even mention the QB position. For him, that is a pretty big vote of no confidence.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Brunell needs to go. He is not going to win us a Superbowl we will be lucky to be 8-8 with him under center. Campbell is and has been here long enough to get started. I truely believe our RUN game and Passing game will be better off with Campbell as our QB.

CAMPBELL!!!

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=Daseal;217092]It's time for the Campbell era. I'm sorry Joe Gibbs -- this pickup failed, time to admit it and move on.[/quote]

I don't think the pickup failed, but I do agree it may be time to move on. If it takes him as long to pick up this offense as he did when gibbs came back - it will be next year when he gets comfortable. He may just need some time to learn the offense, but unfortunately no one will be patiently waiting while he loses.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

i hear you Buster, but again, if we're going to be losing games until the offense finds its rhythm, shouldn't it be Campbell learning that rhythm?

yeah Brunell plays "smart" and "safe", and he certainly did so all game. even when it's time to go downfield and risk the interception when you're behind, Brunell stayed playing conservative and to the sides (tho he managed to get picked throwing to the side by the 1..). he didn't pass over the middle until late in the 4th quarter!

How do you leave players like Cooley and Moss starving for catches? sometimes i think Brunell is more concerned about INTs than points or yards.

we got a new coordinator and a new QB (with fresher legs) to get POINTS. so far this year, we've gotten 1 TD. we really want to wait for Brunell to find his 36 yr old rhythm?

Re: Bench Brunell
 

You are 100 % right . Maybe it is because they are thinking too much learing the calls ? It looks like we give up on the run too quick . At least if we run , we can beat the other team up a bit , we have some big boys up front and it would keep or qb's from getting killed .

Re: Bench Brunell
 

Too bad we gave carter , AA and Loyd 30 million in guaranteed $$$ . You think S. Taylor's agent isn't going to ask for twice what they paid AA ? Any idea who thought that Carter was a good pass rusher ??

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

Brunell played very hard last night and it was a gutzy performance.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[url=http://www.moviewavs.com/php/sounds/?id=gog&media=MP3S&type=Movies&movie=Old_School&quote=composure.txt&file=composure.mp3]The MovieWavs Page - Old_School: composure.mp3[/url]

This is how I feel.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

It's time to BENCH BRUNNEL.

He has been the same worthless quarterback since he came to the Redskins. His best days are behind him. He has had a couple of good days since he has been a Redskin, but mostly a big disappointment.

I am so tired of seeing 5 yard passes in the flat. That's all he throws. He will not or cannot throw the ball downfield. If you pan the field, receivers are getting open deep, but Brunnel cannot or will not throw the ball to them.

His dropbacks are too deep and screws up the blocking schemes. The outside rush is able to get around the corner and get to him. If he had the proper dropback depth, he could step up into the pocket and deliver the pass. I think the reason he drops back so deep is he is a midget for a quarterback, barely over 6 feet tall.

There is nothing to lose by going to Jason Campbell, only everything to gain. He has the size, the arm and quickness to succeed. All he lacks is the experience. Give it to him...NOW!!!!!!

The Houston Texan game is the perfect game to start Campbell. This is a good matchup to allow him to gain some experience and develop some confidence for the up and coming tough games.

GIT 'R DONE

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=TheBigD;217084]I think it is time to bench him (hear me out I am not trash talking or anything)

Brunell, if you can remember, has not been good since his injury last year. The Redskins offense has been depending on Portis to win the game all by himself.

Eversince his game in Tampa he has not done anything to help the Skins. He's more of a burden, Portis could be better off with out him. Teams are not respecing the pass, so they bring as many men as they can to the line and let Brunell win the game with his arm and it is not happening. He hasn't thrown a TD yet this year.

The other reason why the Skins went so far last year and are kept in games till the end is their great defense, but they can only do so much. I mean last night it wasn't untill late in the game that the Cowboys took them out of the game. they were down by a TD right till the end of the 3rd qurater.

I watched Campbell at Auburn and thought he was good enough to win games, the sooner they get him started they better. Yes he will lose a game or two but that is how they learn. As a Cowboys fan, I would love to see Romo in now. Gibbs and Parcells are in love with their QBs who are proven to be way past their prime.[/quote]

Mark this date on your calenders gentlemen. I'm in complete agreement with our Cowboy foe.

"Teams are not respecting the pass, so they bring as many men as they can to the line and dare Brunnel to beat them with his arm and he is not delivering"

This is a two-fold problem. It takes away the short passes, which Brunnel is in love with and it gives maximum support against the run. That's why Betts and Duckett have no room to run. It wouldn't be any different if Portis was in there.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

This has been touched on but not highlighted when arguing for Campbell to start, but I'll make clear my layman thinking.

Raise your hand if you think Brunell is the QB of the future in Wash...:eek:

Of course he's not, and we know that Campbell is our future. New QB's invariably have to work through growing pains and must work their way up the learning curve of the NFL. By all accounts, Brunell is still in the early phases of his learning the Saunders system. Why would we want to suffer though another 10 games of Brunell learning the system just to have Campbell start next year and go through the same 10 game learning curve. Why not kill two birds with one stone, and put the kid in now.

Will he make mistakes, yes for sure. Will he cost us winnable games, maybe a couple. Does all that matter when the current QB can't complete a 10 yard out pattern or get the ball downfield at all? Not to me. As a paying fan, I would rather sit through a 7-9 or 6-10 season with JC at the helm learning how to be a pro and learning the Saunders system so he can come back strong in '07. This applies double when the alternative is to watch Brunell struggle to 8-8 only to get cut or retire at the end of the season.

We are in year 3 of the Brunell experiment and we are about where we started. Enough is enough. I no longer care if Brunell is the best option to "win now". I don't believe he's good enough to take us to the Championship so who cares if he's marginally better than a virgin QB.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=firstdown;217136]Brunell played very hard last night and it was a gutzy performance.[/quote]

Gutzy performance? If it were a matter of gutz, shit, stick anyone of us in there. Guts 'aint cuttin it right now. Playing hard? Are you serious? No one's question his guts, but rather his ability. And no matter what camp you fall in, it's time for someone to give some answers.

I don't mean to come down on you or sound like a know it all, but this 'aint about being gutzy right now. It's a time for accountabilty - quickly.
Either Al Saunders is accountable, Joe Gibbs or Mark Brunell. You take your pick, but someone is going to step up to the plate quick.

Stick a fork in Brunell, my man. He's done.