Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;327029]Damn... that's a dick-move.

I'm not saying what he did was right, but to go to that length to retaliate is pretty childish if you ask me.[/QUOTE]


Way to completely ignore the point and attack the person matty.

Now, #1- I am HUGE animal rights activist, so at worst, I was accomplishing getting the poor animal some food.
#2- What, so he can treat people like shit without the thought he will get something in return? You don't treat my wife that way, and I would assume you would not allow someone to treat your wife that way, but since he is "homeless" (or assumed homeless) you allow it???? Shame on you matty.

Usually, even if I don't agree with your points of view, you give a good side to the story, but your post was the only thing that was "childish". Hopefully we can move on and stick to issues.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;327031]Well I wouldn't have done it but I am struck by the fact that some think we are supposed to care enough to help these type of people unconditionally but we are not supposed care enough to do anything when they act like this.

It seems like it is saying "This guy deserves our help but don't dare judge him on any actions he takes. It's not your place."

I am not saying that you are saying that Matty but it seems like a lot of people want everyone to help without question or even active participation unless it is to only bring sunshine and blow smoke.

That guy needs more people to tell him off. Maybe if enough people put him in his place rather than give him handouts he'll figure out how to get his life on track.[/QUOTE]

Thank you...I agree.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;327033]Don't help the guy...hell don't even give him the time of day. But I fail to see what a childish retaliation like that accomplishes. Somehow I don't think tough love is going to change most people like that.[/QUOTE]

ignoring it is condoning it. Maybe next time he will think twice about treating someone like that. Maybe he'll think...damn, I guess I pissed that guy off, maybe I shouldn't talk to people's wives like that...maybe the next time some guy will knock my teeth out instead.
But to ignore it, is condoning it, and I refuse to allow that.
My wife was taking him up on his offer of "will work for food". She reached out to help a man that she thought was in geniune need, turns out he's just a leech on society. He could have just said "no thanks" and nothing would have happened.
I'm shocked to realize that there are people out there that aren't willing to put a stop to misbehavior.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=jsarno;327093]Way to completely ignore the point and attack the person matty.

Now, #1- I am HUGE animal rights activist, so at worst, I was accomplishing getting the poor animal some food.
#2- What, so he can treat people like shit without the thought he will get something in return? You don't treat my wife that way, and I would assume you would not allow someone to treat your wife that way, but since he is "homeless" (or assumed homeless) you allow it???? Shame on you matty.

Usually, even if I don't agree with your points of view, you give a good side to the story, but your post was the only thing that was "childish". Hopefully we can move on and stick to issues.[/quote]

LOL I'm sure you had the animal's best interests in mind while you were driving back to wal-mart probably royally pissed off.

Like I said, what he did to your wife wasn't right, but as the old saying goes two wrongs does not make a right.

I'm sticking to my original opinion that what you did was a dick-move and very childish and even more so you showed your immaturity by bragging about it here.

It takes the bigger man to walk away from a situation like that. Tell me, what exactly did you get out of doing that? Satisfaction that you put someone in his place? Did it make you feel tough or macho or something?

Seriously, what did you gain from doing that?

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=70Chip;327072]Even the most bleeding heart liberal on the planet will admit that drugs/alcohol are nearly inseperable from the problem of homelessness. Someone mentioned the Vietnam Vets earlier. Even for them the trauma of combat was probably not enough to make them dysfunctional. You add alcohol or opiates, though, and they go downhill very quickly.

And it's not just homelessness. If you were to remove drug and alcohol abuse (and I mean the severe cases, not the borderline ones on their way to being severe, hmmm, hmmm), you could watch all manner of social ills disappear like that proverbial fart in the wind. Joseph Califano who worked for LBJ and is a Democrat is very strong on this issue. If you are interested in some statistics that will knock your socks off, you might search on him.[/quote]

Unfortunately, we don't live in a vacuum. Even the most capable, the most intellectual, and the strongest among us have felt life's pressure to the extent it has driven us to behave in unseemly ways. What I'm getting at is removing drugs from our society won't elimate homelessness or any other social ill. Drugs and alchohol probably exacerbate homelessness, no doubt, but I don't think it disappears like a fart in the wind.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;327097]LOL I'm sure you had the animal's best interests in mind while you were driving back to wal-mart probably royally pissed off.[/quote]
My initial intention was to give him a piece of my mind, and maybe take a tooth as souvenier, but when I saw the dog, my intentions changed. Poor dog.

[quote]Like I said, what he did to your wife wasn't right, but as the old saying goes two wrongs does not make a right.[/quote]

I don't think I was wrong. If your child misbehaves, you punish him correct? Granted he's not my child, but I gave him a punishment to let him know that was unacceptable. Are you wrong for punishing your child?

[quote]I'm sticking to my original opinion that what you did was a dick-move and very childish and even more so you showed your immaturity by bragging about it here. [/quote]

And I'm sticking to my initial opinion of shame on you for wanting to allow such a thing.

[quote]It takes the bigger man to walk away from a situation like that.[/quote]
No it doesn't. It takes the lazy man to walk away. He's cheating society, he's a cancer on the american people. The easiest thing to do would be sit back and shrug it off while maintaining an ass print on my sofa. The hardest thing to do in that scenario would be to confront it.

[quote]Tell me, what exactly did you get out of doing that? Satisfaction that you put someone in his place? Did it make you feel tough or macho or something? [/quote]

1- help the dog. For as much as you would like to believe that I had no intentions of helping the dog, I did.
The rest was just my pissed off nature (which I admit I was pissed). But I most certainly take satisfaction in thinking that I may have changed his behavior towards others. It is worthy to note that he has not been seen in that area since our "conversation". I'm sure he's just a drifter and moved on, but I hope that he thinks twice about being a rude assmunch to someone else...you never know who will take it offensively and beat the piss out of him. Hey, I could have saved his life, you never know. Point being, the worst thing to do is accept that behavior.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

i think its funny that it seems like you have more compassion for animals, then you do your fellow humans

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

Sounds like anger issues to me. But hey, if you felt that you saved the world that day more power to you. We obviously differ when it comes to our opinions on how to properly treat others. I guess you learn something new everyday. I never knew that it took a lazy man to walk away from a confrontation. That's an impressive life lesson.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;327050]I'd like to see some studies or research on this issue. I see a lot of strong assumptions being made and frankly I think people are quite biased in thinking that most homeless people are just lazy drunks or drug addicts looking for handouts.[/QUOTE]

Well, as you can already tell from other people's experiences posted here, many homeless are just looking for one thing...money. Why not food? Why not water? Why ONLY money? Cause they are doing something with that money. Some know that they can get $200-$1000 a day in begging and they will go into the alley, retreive their Mercedes and drive home. Some need the money to afford their alcohol or drugs. Almost all use it in an inappropriate manner. Fact is, you give them what they want, and you are making the situation worse. There are plenty of homeless shelters across this country. Why is it they are too proud to get a warm cup of soup, or nice sandwich, but they aren't too proud to beg on the corner and not work for food or money.
Since when did we become a country of "If you don't want to help yourself, we'll keep helping you over and over again until you realize that you don't need to do anything to deserve help?"

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

If someone asks me for a buck and I have it, I'll give it to them. I honestly don't care what they do with it, I'm not trying to judge them, correct them or punish them.

Just curious, are you in favor of any sort of charity? Or does it have to come with a laundry list of exceptions?

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;327103]Sounds like anger issues to me. But hey, if you felt that you saved the world that day more power to you. We obviously differ when it comes to our opinions on how to properly treat others. I guess you learn something new everyday. I never knew that it took a lazy man to walk away from a confrontation. That's an impressive life lesson.[/QUOTE]

Well, I wasn't confronted, my wife was.
It started as anger issues...that I am not denying. The fact that he didn't get knocked out shows the anger issues subsided.
I think where we differ is where you would allow someone to mistreat you or your wife, I won't. We also differ in the thought that I think by giving him money, you are making the situation worse, while you think you're "helping".

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=Mattyk72;327107]If someone asks me for a buck and I have it, I'll give it to them. I honestly don't care what they do with it, I'm not trying to judge them, correct them or punish them.[/quote]

I've always been a spare change giver outer type of guy. Hmm...sounds like a cool Bud Light Real Men of Empathy commercial.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;327053]I agree here too. But the fact is, many Americans are probably one or two paychecks away from being pretty darn close to homeless. I think what separates them from the homeless guy or woman, in some cases at least, is they actually have either the sheer tenacity or the resourses to actually keep them off the streets.

I guess my position on this really stems from two things: My belief in the scriptures that adheres to the idea that we should feed the hungry, provide shelter for the homeless, and cloth the naked. To me that's not just a Christian tenet, but a human tenet as well. I also think there is something very American about taking care of those less fortunate. Of course, all things must be done in balance and not put too much of a strain on those that keep the ecomony churning, but I think you guys get the spirit of what I saying here.

[B]And let me say this one last thing too - I don't think the question of whether or not many are deserving should enter into the equation. Because I've received a lot of shit over the course of my life that I didn't deserve, and yet here I am.[/B][/QUOTE]

True dat. I would suggest all of us sitting here reading this thread have received benefits from persons and events beyond are control. Likely as not, some have been harmed in the same fashion. It is for this reason I constantly repeat to myself when I see those less fortunate than myself "There but for the grace of God go I."

Well said 12th.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

I think my point of view stems from my belief that I KNOW that if you took every possession I won and all my money. Separated me from my family. Erased my educational history and work experience. If i had to star with totally nothing, I know I could have a job and a place to live by the end of the week. It simply isn't that hard. Again, there are many that need help and will do what is necessary to get it. These are the people we should focus on helping. It is our responsibility. But there are certainly people who simply won't do what they need to 'earn' their help. And I simply am not in favor of helping people who won't use the help to get to a point where they don't need it anymore.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;327107]If someone asks me for a buck and I have it, I'll give it to them. I honestly don't care what they do with it, I'm not trying to judge them, correct them or punish them.[/quote]

They didn't ask for a buck...they asked work for food, my wife offered, he said F.U. Open shut case here matty.

[quote]Just curious, are you in favor of any sort of charity? Or does it have to come with a laundry list of exceptions?[/QUOTE]

I have already explained the charities I give to, in fact I would wager I give more than 95% of the people here. (not that I'm judging anyone, it comes from the heart and I completely understand if people won't or even can't give to charities) I refuse to give to "charities" of people that won't help themselves.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;327102]i think its funny that it seems like you have more compassion for animals, then you do your fellow humans[/QUOTE]

That is absolutely true. Why? Cause animals don't know any better.

However, I have a ton of compassion for those humans that are just down on their luck but are giving 100% to change that around. None for the guy that thinks "poor me" with his hand out. There is a huge difference to me.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=FRPLG;327113]I think my point of view stems from my belief that I KNOW that if you took every possession I won and all my money. Separated me from my family. Erased my educational history and work experience. If i had to star with totally nothing, I know I could have a job and a place to live by the end of the week. It simply isn't that hard. Again, there are many that need help and will do what is necessary to get it. These are the people we should focus on helping. It is our responsibility. But there are certainly people who simply won't do what they need to 'earn' their help. And I simply am not in favor of helping people who won't use the help to get to a point where they don't need it anymore.[/quote]


FRPLG, if you have absolutely no money and no place to live, no clothes other than the ones your wearing then what landlord is going to let you rent from him without a deposit of sorts? What employer is going to hire you knowing that you don't have a physical address or phone number for him to be able to reach you? Not saying you can't do it, but I believe it will take longer than a week to get yourself settled in a residence. You almost would have to be a night time maintenance worker that is able to utilize the sinks for laundary and hygiene and find a corner to sleep in for a good while. I'm thinking 3 months and some good luck meeting a compassionate employer.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;327107]If someone asks me for a buck and I have it, I'll give it to them. I honestly don't care what they do with it, I'm not trying to judge them, correct them or punish them.[/QUOTE]

If you saw a homeless guy with a broken arm would you offer him a job cutting your grass? I doubt it. Becuase while that may seem like help it really isn't because he can't do the job and would get nothing from it. I think what jsarno is trying to say is that sometimes what you deem as "help" isn't really helping. Human nature dictates that many people become dependent very easily. If giving them that dollar only further entrenches that sense of dependence then is it really helping?

The old saying "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime." comes to mind. Maybe instead of giving them a dollar we should focus on getting them past the rough times. That is why I want to see people who are willing to put work into fixing their lives. They gotta pull as much weight as they can. I'll help anybody who can't help themselves or those who can and try. Helping those who can and don't try isn't helping. Sometimes it is actually even hurting them more.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;327113]I think my point of view stems from my belief that I KNOW that if you took every possession I won and all my money. Separated me from my family. Erased my educational history and work experience. If i had to star with totally nothing, I know I could have a job and a place to live by the end of the week. It simply isn't that hard. Again, there are many that need help and will do what is necessary to get it. These are the people we should focus on helping. It is our responsibility. But there are certainly people who simply won't do what they need to 'earn' their help. And I simply am not in favor of helping people who won't use the help to get to a point where they don't need it anymore.[/QUOTE]


I agree...it may take a little more than a week, but I agree.
We are bread to believe that we are helpless to the things that happen to us, we are not. We are the masters of our own destiny.
If all that happened to me today, I already know of ditch digging jobs, or possibly even working at McDonalds. Work hard, and the next thing you know, you're the manager. I refuse to hear "I can't". YOU CAN.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=724Skinsfan;327118]FRPLG, if you have absolutely no money and no place to live, no clothes other than the ones your wearing then what landlord is going to let you rent from him without a deposit of sorts? What employer is going to hire you knowing that you don't have a physical address or phone number for him to be able to reach you? Not saying you can't do it, but I believe it will take longer than a week to get yourself settled in a residence. You almost would have to be a night time maintenance worker that is able to utilize the sinks for laundary and hygiene and find a corner to sleep in for a good while. I'm thinking 3 months and some good luck meeting a compassionate employer.[/QUOTE]

Whether it takes a week or 3 months is irrelevant to me. I know I could do it. I suspect most people here could to.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;327119]If you saw a homeless guy with a broken arm would you offer him a job cutting your grass? I doubt it. Becuase while that may seem like help it really isn't because he can't do the job and would get nothing from it. I think what jsarno is trying to say is that sometimes what you deem as "help" isn't really helping. Human nature dictates that many people become dependent very easily. If giving them that dollar only further entrenches that sense of dependence then is it really helping?

The old saying "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime." comes to mind. Maybe instead of giving them a dollar we should focus on getting them past the rough times. That is why I want to see people who are willing to put work into fixing their lives. They gotta pull as much weight as they can. I'll help anybody who can't help themselves or those who can and try. Helping those who can and don't try isn't helping. Sometimes it is actually even hurting them more.[/QUOTE]

Wow, you get my point exactly. I tried to think of that saying too, but for some reason kept coming to: you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink." lol.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=jsarno;327089]I wanted to post this last night, but the site went down as I was typing:

This concerned me, speaking about France and Canada’s healthcare:

[I]While patients may not pay for services at the doctor's office, they do pay high taxes to fund such a system, something Gupta said he was concerned that "Sicko" audiences might not realize. [/I]



[I]Moore responded by saying Americans pay more in copays, deductibles and insurance premiums. "We [America] have a system built on profit," the moviemaker said.[/I]





No "WE" don't. I have a friend that lives in Saskatoon, and she said that they pay over 50% of their salary to taxes for that health care, and if it's life threatening (ie: need surgery NOW), they get put on at least a 6 month waiting list and try to come to America for the surgery instead cause they will die with the healthcare they have up there.

Fact is, there is no perfect health care system anywhere in the world.



I don't know how feasible this is, but if the government does take over, why not circumvent the insurance companies. Really, it's not greedy doctors, or frivolous lawsuits (although that does exist), it's the insurance companies raping the consumers. They are, in affect, a middle man that isn't needed.[/quote]
Please give use the numbers that you have to show that the insurance companies are raping the consumers. Facts, I don't think you have them but if you do please lets us know.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;327124]Please give use the numbers that you have to show that the insurance companies are raping the consumers. Facts, I don't think you have them but if you do please lets us know.[/QUOTE]

Are you serious? You think the insurance companies are completely honest? You must either work for an insurance company, or are nieve. There have been plenty of documentations over the years of this. While I do not have numbers, I won't even search for them cause my comment is common knowledge.

I am sorry that sounds rude. After proof reading it, I thought it sounded rude. That is not my intent. I am just trying to point out that it's common knowledge.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=jsarno;327109]Well, I wasn't confronted, my wife was.
It started as anger issues...that I am not denying. The fact that he didn't get knocked out shows the anger issues subsided.
I think where we differ is where you would allow someone to mistreat you or your wife, I won't. We also differ in the thought that I think by giving him money, you are making the situation worse, while you think you're "helping".[/quote]

Someone saying FU to my wife wouldn't qualify as the kind of 'mistreatment' that would require me to drive back to Wal-Mart, go in the store, buy dog food, and then confront the person with the intention of humiliating them.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;327129]Are you serious? You think the insurance companies are completely honest? You must either work for an insurance company, or are nieve. There have been plenty of documentations over the years of this. While I do not have numbers, I won't even search for them cause my comment is common knowledge.

I am sorry that sounds rude. After proof reading it, I thought it sounded rude. That is not my intent. I am just trying to point out that it's common knowledge.[/QUOTE]

Insurance companies get far more bad press than they deserve in my esitimation.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=jsarno;327129]Are you serious? You think the insurance companies are completely honest? You must either work for an insurance company, or are nieve. There have been plenty of documentations over the years of this. While I do not have numbers, I won't even search for them cause my comment is common knowledge.

I am sorry that sounds rude. After proof reading it, I thought it sounded rude. That is not my intent. I am just trying to point out that it's common knowledge.[/quote]

I've worked for several insurance companies and I haven't seen any instances of the company outright improperly denying claims. Are there guilty insurance companies out there? Sure, but the same goes for everyone that's a part of the system. Doctors, lawyers, and claimants themselves are part of the problem at times as well. I don't think one part of the system can be pinpointed as being the sole problem.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=jsarno;327117]However, I have a ton of compassion for those humans that are just down on their luck but are giving 100% to change that around. None for the guy that thinks "poor me" with his hand out. There is a huge difference to me.[/quote]

How do you go about telling the difference, or judging who's worthy of helping vs. who's not. Do you sit down and ask the person for his life story and draw the conclusion of whether he's worthy of your help or not?

Is everyone with their hand out not worth helping?

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=jsarno;327129]Are you serious? You think the insurance companies are completely honest? You must either work for an insurance company, or are nieve. There have been plenty of documentations over the years of this. While I do not have numbers, I won't even search for them cause my comment is common knowledge.

I am sorry that sounds rude. After proof reading it, I thought it sounded rude. That is not my intent. I am just trying to point out that it's common knowledge.[/quote]
Yes, I am in the ins business and no I do not sell health ins. But the statement you made was just completly wrong so it has to be challenged. It should be easy for you to find the numbers if the ins co are raping us. Yes, I'm sure you could find a story here and a story there about something wrong an ins co. did but you said raping us. No it is not common knowledge.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;327118]FRPLG, if you have absolutely no money and no place to live, no clothes other than the ones your wearing then what landlord is going to let you rent from him without a deposit of sorts? What employer is going to hire you knowing that you don't have a physical address or phone number for him to be able to reach you? Not saying you can't do it, but I believe it will take longer than a week to get yourself settled in a residence. You almost would have to be a night time maintenance worker that is able to utilize the sinks for laundary and hygiene and find a corner to sleep in for a good while. I'm thinking 3 months and some good luck meeting a compassionate employer.[/quote]
I don't think it would be all that difficult. Illegal immigrants do it all the time.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=Lady Brave;327145]I don't think it would be all that difficult. Illegal immigrants do it all the time.[/quote]


True enough, I suppose.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;327132]Someone saying FU to my wife wouldn't qualify as the kind of 'mistreatment' that would require me to drive back to Wal-Mart, go in the store, buy dog food, and then confront the person with the intention of humiliating them.[/QUOTE]

If you recall...I went there initially to confront the person...I saw the dog, then my focus changed.
I had no intent of humiliating him, in fact, I'm sure it's impossible to humiliate someone like that.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;327135]I've worked for several insurance companies and I haven't seen any instances of the company outright improperly denying claims. Are there guilty insurance companies out there? Sure, but the same goes for everyone that's a part of the system. Doctors, lawyers, and claimants themselves are part of the problem at times as well. I don't think one part of the system can be pinpointed as being the sole problem.[/QUOTE]

had you been paying attention, I did say those others are to blame as well. I just believe the insurance companies to be the bigger problem. Now of course, you could always argue that it's the insurance predators that excentuate the issues, that would be a valid one.

I'm glad you have not seen any insurance companies outright improperly denying claims. I have seen it. In fact I believe they made a movie out of it too. I've been trying to remember the name, but can't recall right now. I'm glad you guys experiences of insurance companies are positive.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;327138]How do you go about telling the difference, or judging who's worthy of helping vs. who's not. Do you sit down and ask the person for his life story and draw the conclusion of whether he's worthy of your help or not?

Is everyone with their hand out not worth helping?[/QUOTE]

There should be absolutely no person on the side of the road that you should help...period. I've already explained why several times.
You should avoid giving money to charities that don't make others work for it. If charities are just giving it away with no care of the person trying to make a life change, then they should not get money.
You should use common sense when giving money away, otherwise you are helping an addict or helping someone continue to not help themselves which is causing more problems than solving. That is of course my opinion, and if you choose to give your money away to any tom dick or harry that has a hand out, more power to you. Don't be surprised when this epidemic gets worse and worse. And don't expect every person to share in your "generousity".

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=jsarno;327153]I'm glad you have not seen any insurance companies outright improperly denying claims. I have seen it. [B]In fact I believe they made a movie out of it too. I've been trying to remember the name, but can't recall right now.[/B] I'm glad you guys experiences of insurance companies are positive.[/quote]

The Rainmaker?

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=jsarno;327153]had you been paying attention, I did say those others are to blame as well. I just believe the insurance companies to be the bigger problem. Now of course, you could always argue that it's the insurance predators that excentuate the issues, that would be a valid one.

I'm glad you have not seen any insurance companies outright improperly denying claims. I have seen it. In fact I believe they made a movie out of it too. I've been trying to remember the name, but can't recall right now. I'm glad you guys experiences of insurance companies are positive.[/quote]

I hope you've got some better sources than just a movie.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=jsarno;327154]There should be absolutely no person on the side of the road that you should help...period. I've already explained why several times.
You should avoid giving money to charities that don't make others work for it. If charities are just giving it away with no care of the person trying to make a life change, then they should not get money.
You should use common sense when giving money away, otherwise you are helping an addict or helping someone continue to not help themselves which is causing more problems than solving. That is of course my opinion, and if you choose to give your money away to any tom dick or harry that has a hand out, more power to you. Don't be surprised when this epidemic gets worse and worse. And don't expect every person to share in your "generousity".[/quote]

Well said, I mostly agree.
The "assistance" programs in this country are ridiculous. It is a paramount component to our immigration problems as well. They desperately are in need of major change. We have created generations of people who no longer have thoughts of jobs, working for a living, etc. Care to hazard a guess at the BILLIONS that are being pissed away???
I'm sure no real number can be derived with any accuracy. It would be a................staggering sum

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=dmek25;327102]i think its funny that it seems like you have more compassion for animals, then you do your fellow humans[/quote]

That means he's a great animal rights activist. ;)

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

I'm curious, how would getting rid of insurance companies get rid of "the middle man?" Wouldn't a universal health care system simply be replacing insurance companies with the federal government?

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

I agree, that the med insurance/medical thing is totally hosed up. If you TRULY want something hosed beyond all recognition, value, and use, give it to the Fed.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;327179]I'm curious, how would getting rid of insurance companies get rid of "the middle man?" Wouldn't a universal health care system simply be replacing insurance companies with the federal government?[/quote]

No, the Fed. Goverment will simply (and I'm simplifying here) subsidize and make the exsisting providers more affordable, their not eliminating anyone.