Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=saden1;329321]Romney is charismatic? I suppose it depends on how you see him. I see him as disingenuous and he kinda reminds me of John Kerry. I pay very close attention to a candidates body language and facial expressions, and I really don't like that of Romney and Hilary.

Checkout [URL="http://www.bulldogreporter.com/dailydog/issues/1_1/dailydog_barks_bites/7734-1.html"]this great article[/URL] on leading presidential candidates and what their body language tells us.[/quote]
I think he's a douche and I don't like him. I'm just going on what I hear from the general population. Your article backs me up on this one.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=12thMan;329325]You know..- and I don't want to open this can of worms - the 'N' word is far more complicated than the actual word itself, and it's not as black and white as people try to handle it, approach it or discuss it. I'm not the 'N' word expert, by any means, but I've been around the block a few times. Sometimes it's about context, sometimes it's about ignorance, and sometimes it's actually is about race and only race. In fact most of the time it is, but it's something that needs to be discussed, especially if you have children.[/quote]

It's something that has to be talked about. Otherwise it's left in this gray area of unknown, and that's a major obstacle against progression. When this article came out, I considered starting a thread and hearing the opinions of others on it.

[url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19680493/]NAACP delegates ‘bury’ N-word - Race & Ethnicity - MSNBC.com[/url]

I think we're starting to see a lot of Americans avoiding the word altogether. The Michael Richards incident started the dialogue up again, and Imus took it to a whole new level. When Paul Mooney stopped saying it, I was in shock.

Here's something that really convinced me on the issue way back in the day. This is when Pryor had visited Africa....

[YT]fEVmAbxC14g[/YT]

Sorry for Hi-jacking this thread... I'll behave from now on.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;329309][quote=jsarno;329189]For as much as I don't want to turn this into a racial debate, it appears it has been. I will try harder not to even bring it up. Whenever race is brought up the quality of discussion goes dramatically down cause there is always someone that gets offended.
I hope that everyone involved and everyone voting doesn't see race, I hope they see issues.[/quot

Jsarno, this may not be the best forum to have a racial debate, but I do think because we skirt around the issue of race so often and we're so leary of offending folks that we never bring it up and we never truly take any meaningful steps forward. Typically, the issue never comes up unless there's an O.J. Simpson case or a Rodney King type incident, or more recently Imus. But by then, usually feelings and emotions are so inflamed and raw it's too late to discuss anything in a civil manner, it's more venting, accusing, and resentment at that point.

We need to talk about race, and let it get emotional so long as people understand on the front let's [I][B]engage[/B] [/I]not [I][B]enrage[/B][/I]. In all honesty, it's nearly impossible to have a full, I mean a truly full discussion about politics and even religion without the subject of race being included.

I'll get off this soapbox for now, but just to reiterate I'm not suggesting that we open this thread or any other thread to the discussion of race. I think it's one of those things that should be discussed and talked about in person or in a group forum. I'm not too sure that the internet is entirely condusive to that.[/QUOTE]

I absolutely agree. It's just that while some of us here see it the way you described, there are also some that the mere thought of racism gets them very upset. I just want to avoid to upsetting anyone as much as I can. We are all here for some form of entertainment, and getting pissed off at some yahoo just makes things difficult.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

Here's the thing, and I swear I'm leaving it alone after this:)

But if the mods are open to the idea, I think it's something that could be discussed/debated within a thread, but it would have to be a controlled environment.

*For instance, only six people permitted to be allowed in the discussion at any given time. Maybe over the course of two consecutive days.

*No four letter words allowed under no circumstances; Even if one is only expressing his/her views.

*The thread would be locked to everyone else until the Mods opened it up to a new designated "group". Others are free to view, but not post as the forum is only open to those six men/woman during that time. The reason for this is so that you don't have any hit and run posters as to inflame an already sensitive topic.

I have some more suggestions on how to open this debate/discussion up, but that's just a good safe place to start. That's just how 12th would do it...I'm just saying!

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

12th, can i come in and play?

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=12thMan;329372]Here's the thing, and I swear I'm leaving it alone after this:)

But if the mods are open to the idea, I think it's something that could be discussed/debated within a thread, but it would have to be a controlled environment.

*For instance, only six people permitted to be allowed in the discussion at any given time. Maybe over the course of two consecutive days.

*No four letter words allowed under no circumstances; Even if one is only expressing his/her views.

*The thread would be locked to everyone else until the Mods opened it up to a new designated "group". Others are free to view, but not post as the forum is only open to those [B]six men/woman[/B] during that time. The reason for this is so that you don't have any hit and run posters as to inflame an already sensitive topic.

I have some more suggestions on how to open this debate/discussion up, but that's just a good safe place to start. That's just how 12th would do it...I'm just saying![/quote]

Only one woman? How do we choose who participates? Rock, paper, scissors? Cage match? I don't know about that. Hess is a scrapper. ;)

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;329372]Here's the thing, and I swear I'm leaving it alone after this:)

But if the mods are open to the idea, I think it's something that could be discussed/debated within a thread, but it would have to be a controlled environment.

*For instance, only six people permitted to be allowed in the discussion at any given time. Maybe over the course of two consecutive days.

*No four letter words allowed under no circumstances; Even if one is only expressing his/her views.

*The thread would be locked to everyone else until the Mods opened it up to a new designated "group". Others are free to view, but not post as the forum is only open to those six men/woman during that time. The reason for this is so that you don't have any hit and run posters as to inflame an already sensitive topic.

I have some more suggestions on how to open this debate/discussion up, but that's just a good safe place to start. That's just how 12th would do it...I'm just saying![/QUOTE]

You talking about a thread specifically about race and the N word?

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

I'm down... I think it should be open to everyone though, with fair warning before hand that any ignorant / inappropriate comments will result in 3 month ban (literally) and deletion of your post.

Plus I think Smoot wants to lay the smack down on someone... It's been a while since It's happened. If I were a mod, I'd be playing "The Final Countdown" on permanent loop before the thread just to get ready to dish out some action.

Seriously though, I think everyone can benefit from hearing a wide range of thoughts / ideas in a semi-controlled environment. It'll be our farewell to the off season thread.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

Okay, here's a shocker: I'm a little confused. What exactly would the debate/discussion be about?

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;329407]You talking about a thread specifically about race and the N word?[/quote]
"N" word and all...but those six people can only respond to one another within that thread. They can't pick up on something or respond to someone else in a previous thread. Remember they're debating with those specific individuals they're rolling with. I would have to lay it out from top to bottom, to be honest with you. But I think it could work and we could get something out of it. Also, the Mods would have to approve of who participates and who doesn't; This isn't a free for all. For instance, someone who has a consistent history of having, well, being argumentative may not be the best person to allow to discuss or debate on this particular topic. Not to say that people that get in heated discussions or debates shouldn't be allowed, but I think the Mods would say okay to some and, quite frankly, no to others.</p>

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=Lady Brave;329382]Only one woman? How do we choose who participates? Rock, paper, scissors? Cage match? I don't know about that. Hess is a scrapper. ;)[/quote]

Good question. I think first of all someone who really wants to engage in this discussion and who isn't simply bored until the season starts.There are a few other criteria I would suggest in addition to the above.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=RobH4413;329425]I'm down... I think it should be open to everyone though, with fair warning before hand that any ignorant / inappropriate comments will result in 3 month ban (literally) and deletion of your post.

Plus I think Smoot wants to lay the smack down on someone... It's been a while since It's happened. If I were a mod, I'd be playing "The Final Countdown" on permanent loop before the thread just to get ready to dish out some action.

Seriously though, I think everyone can benefit from hearing a wide range of thoughts / ideas in a semi-controlled environment. It'll be our farewell to the off season thread.[/QUOTE]

I don't know. It took a while for us to have faith that we could renew political discussion.

I'm not against the discussion, which I think should be free for all. But, we'd have to be very careful and no "You all hate Michael Vick because he's Black" posts.

Ultimately, this is Matty's call

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

I think to keep things orderly and on track, they're should be a theme for that thread or somewhat of a general topic. After we exhaust one theme or topic we move on to the next. i.e. Race and Athletes, i.e. The "N" Word. Race and Politics....or whatever.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=Lady Brave;329382]Only one woman? How do we choose who participates? Rock, paper, scissors? Cage match? I don't know about that. Hess is a scrapper. ;)[/QUOTE]

Where has she been? I haven't seen her in a while.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;329460]I don't know. It took a while for us to have faith that we could renew political discussion.

I'm not against the discussion, which I think should be free for all. But, we'd have to be very careful and no "You all hate Michael Vick because he's Black" posts.

Ultimately, this is Matty's call[/quote]

Yeah, That's why I decided not to start the thread in the first place a while back.

I actually was halfway through a PM to Matty to ask him about it when I just thought it might be too much.

I think the thread would start out very constructive, but would idle until someone went off the edge. Maybe have the thread open for 24 hours, see how it goes.

Another option would be to start it in an independent forum outside of the warpath.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=jsarno;329293]What college did you go to? (and teach at?)[/quote]

The University of Arkansas at Fayetteville. Both quarterback Joe Ferguson (later of the Bills) and Bill Clinton were there when I was. I'm not sure whether Clinton was teaching classes or taking them, or both.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

Just so you guys know, Cornel got the damn idea from me!!!

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2007/07/16/DI2007071601230.html?hpid=discussions]Race: State of Affairs - washingtonpost.com[/url]

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;329465]I think to keep things orderly and on track, they're should be a theme for that thread or somewhat of a general topic. After we exhaust one theme or topic we move on to the next. i.e. Race and Athletes, i.e. The "N" Word. Race and Politics....or whatever.[/QUOTE]

And then you have geniuses like [URL="http://www.wral.com/news/national_world/national/story/1597353/"]this[/URL]

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=Crazyhorse1;329474]The University of Arkansas at Fayetteville. Both quarterback Joe Ferguson (later of the Bills) and Bill Clinton were there when I was. I'm not sure whether Clinton was teaching classes or taking them, or both.[/QUOTE]


Nope...I went to Harding University in Searcy, Arkansas for my freshman and sophomore years. I did travel to Little Rock and Fayetteville to watch the razorbacks play though. Harding got too expensive for me and was too strict on the rules...it's a private Christian college.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;329488]And then you have geniuses like [URL="http://www.wral.com/news/national_world/national/story/1597353/"]this[/URL][/quote]


He's 80 years old, most old people are racists and they don't even know it or think they are. My grandma is insanely racists.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;329488]And then you have geniuses like [URL="http://www.wral.com/news/national_world/national/story/1597353/"]this[/URL][/QUOTE]

It's a shame that one wrong word hurts a man's entire career.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

My family always got a kick at how racist all of the older relatives were.

My great aunt (who passed away about a year ago) was insane. She would rant on and on about how she hated the Russians, the Chinese, the Hispanics... It was hysterical.

Finally one of us just asked her which she hated the most.

After much deliberation, she concluded it was the Chinese. Why? Because they didn't even talk... They just made noises.

God bless her insane little heart.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;329495]Nope...I went to Harding University in Searcy, Arkansas for my freshman and sophomore years. I did travel to Little Rock and Fayetteville to watch the razorbacks play though. Harding got too expensive for me and was too strict on the rules...it's a private Christian college.[/QUOTE]

You went to a school named after one of our worst Presidents ever? That's kind of funny, especially to find that out in this thread

Or was it not name after Warren G.?

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;329496]He's 80 years old, most old people are racists and they don't even know it or think they are. My grandma is insanely racists.[/QUOTE]

Well, and the older they are, especially if they are from the south, the N word was a commonly used word back in their day (FYI- I think he's lying when he said he never used to word before). My father in law is not racist, but he is from Arkansas and he said he used the word when he was young, but now that it has become such an offensive term he will never use it again.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;329497]It's a shame that one wrong word hurts a man's entire career.[/QUOTE]

True. Not sure I buy the "I heard in a rap song" argument though. Then again, who knows, maybe he gets down

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;329499]You went to a school named after one of our worst Presidents ever? That's kind of funny, especially to find that out in this thread

Or was it not name after Warren G.?[/QUOTE]

Actually it was named James A. Harding.
Here's a link:
[url=http://www.harding.edu/about/history.html]Harding University - About Harding - History[/url]

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;329501]True. Not sure I buy the "I heard in a rap song" argument though. Then again, who knows, maybe he gets down[/QUOTE]

He's full of poo. We all know it comes from a racist background. I do believe it slipped out, but don't lie about it.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

I would be worried if he was in his 40's or 50's but the guy is dirt old. To be honest I suppose people in the board room were all white and they could have kept it all under wrap. Took a lot of guts for them to ask for his resignation and I guess that shows how much progress we have made.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;329505]I would be worried if he was in his 40's or 50's but the guy is dirt old. To be honest I suppose people in the board room were all white and they could have kept it all under wrap. Took a lot of guts for them to ask for his resignation and I guess that shows how much progress we have made.[/QUOTE]

Well, that one actually puzzles me. If he really is admired and or loved, they would have kept it under wraps. He might not be liked, or might be slipping and they might have wanted him gone so this was a good excuse.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=jsarno;329508]Well, that one actually puzzles me. If he really is admired and or loved, they would have kept it under wraps. He might not be liked, or might be slipping and they might have wanted him gone so this was a good excuse.[/quote]


So are you advocating for keeping it under wrap and let him continue or force him out with his dignity intact?

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;329511]So are you advocating for keeping it under wrap and let him continue or force him out with his dignity intact?[/QUOTE]

Well, I already said that it's a shame that a man using one word ruins his legacy. I really don't know...I wasn't there. If it was a truely racism remark then yes, you don't want someone in power that is a racist, if it truely was a slip, then no, everyone says something stupid at some point. I wasn't there.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

getting back to bush:

Liar Liar Pants on Fire!
[YT]KUu8iDknR9U[/YT]

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;329540]getting back to bush:

Liar Liar Pants on Fire!
[YT]KUu8iDknR9U[/YT][/QUOTE]

LOL...there is progress. 3K+ americans dead is not nearly as bad as it could be. Do you feel Iraq is exactly the same as it was when we started this war?

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=jsarno;329542]LOL...there is progress. 3K+ americans dead is not nearly as bad as it could be. Do you feel Iraq is exactly the same as it was when we started this war?[/quote]

It might be marginally better but that's not good enough. I suppose I'm biased because I expected us to fail when we went in. That doesn't mean I wanted us to fail, it just means I was cognizant of reality of what it would mean to "win" and how difficult of a task it would be. Plus, I understand the concept of sunk cost.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

This one always cracks me up. Granted, it tends to ignore that the world change significantly since 2001. Still, it never hurts to have a good laugh

[url=http://www.comedycentral.com/sitewide/media_player/play.jhtml?itemId=12814]Comedy Central - Media Player[/url]

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=jsarno;329542]LOL...there is progress. 3K+ americans dead is not nearly as bad as it could be. Do you feel Iraq is exactly the same as it was when we started this war?[/quote]
Iraq isn't the same, but no country is. after all the money, and lives lost, i think people expect alot more then they are seeing. its time for them to step up, and us to get the hell out.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;329549]It might be marginally better but that's not good enough. I suppose I'm biased because I expected us to fail when we went in. That doesn't mean I wanted us to fail, it just means I was cognizant of reality of what it would mean to "win" and how difficult of a task it would be. Plus, I understand the concept of sunk cost.[/QUOTE]

Iraq has a completely new government from head to toe...how is that not progress?
We really can't view it as a win or loss scenario. What would constitute a "win"?

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=jsarno;329568]Iraq has a completely new government from head to toe...how is that not progress?
We really can't view it as a win or loss scenario. What would constitute a "win"?[/quote]


Why don't you ask the president and crew:
[yt]EkcUhyNfyR4[/yt]
[yt]-zFsTdwFsv8[/yt]

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

I think he will go down as someone who tried to make the right deicisions but got bashed no matter what he did.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;329790]I think he will go down as someone who tried to make the right deicisions but got bashed no matter what he did.[/QUOTE]


True...he is truely someone that is PC to bash. More so than any other president in history.