Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

I saw ESPN this am and I was shocked. People are hooting and hollering at Vick when he showed up at court, holding up all these silly ass signs, people are dressed up in dog suits, people are basically in an uproar.

We are talking about dog fighting for crying out loud!!!! Not murder or rape. Kobe Bryant was accused of a worse crime than dog fighting and he was still allowed to play until the process played out. I am a dog owner and I can't believe that people have so much anger towards the guy. Dog fighting is a discusting thing but jeez, so far they are just allegations.

I honestly think some of this is racial. If this was Brett Farve I don't think you would have so much anger from white people. I could be wrong, but I honestly think that becasue Vick is black, and he has let some of his thug homeboys leach on to him is the reason there is so much backlash.

With the crap that is going on in the world today people really need to find something better to do with their time than protest against Michael Vick. Let the process play out in the courts and mind your own damn business.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;333552]I saw ESPN this am and I was shocked. People are hooting and hollering at Vick when he showed up at court, holding up all these silly ass signs, people are dressed up in dog suits, people are basically in an uproar.

We are talking about dog fighting for crying out loud!!!! Not murder or rape. Kobe Bryant was accused of a worse crime than dog fighting and he was still allowed to play until the process played out. I am a dog owner and I can't believe that people have so much anger towards the guy. Dog fighting is a discusting thing but jeez, so far they are just allegations.

I honestly think some of this is racial. If this was Brett Farve I don't think you would have so much anger from white people. I could be wrong, but I honestly think that becasue Vick is black, and he has let some of his thug homeboys leach on to him is the reason there is so much backlash.

With the crap that is going on in the world today people really need to find something better to do with their time than protest against Michael Vick. Let the process play out in the courts and mind your own damn business.[/quote]
Come on, why is this racial and Kobe Bryant was not. You saw the activest from PETA (people For The Ethical Treatment For Animals) they protest anywhere where there is said to be mistreatment of animals. They protest the Circus every year when it comes to town. If this was Farve he would be getting the same treatment and you left off that there where more people there cheering for Vick than against. Not sure how you cheer on a guy that is accused of these crimes not knowning if it is true or not. They also have done back ground checking and Vick has purchased around 10 guns which they have no idea where they are and I heard that another state is now investigating if Vick was involved in dog fighting in their state. I will not say if he is guilty or not but with the evidence that he is up against does not look to good and the Feds. have left the window open to press even more charges against him.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

People are most definitely crying race, but the reason a lot of people don't like Vick is because he is an asshole and a piece of shit.

Did anyone NOT see the clip of him saying, "I can do anything I want and people will still love Mike Vick."

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;333552]I saw ESPN this am and I was shocked. People are hooting and hollering at Vick when he showed up at court, holding up all these silly ass signs, people are dressed up in dog suits, people are basically in an uproar.

We are talking about dog fighting for crying out loud!!!! Not murder or rape. Kobe Bryant was accused of a worse crime than dog fighting and he was still allowed to play until the process played out. I am a dog owner and I can't believe that people have so much anger towards the guy. Dog fighting is a discusting thing but jeez, so far they are just allegations.

I honestly think some of this is racial. If this was Brett Farve I don't think you would have so much anger from white people. I could be wrong, but I honestly think that becasue Vick is black, and he has let some of his thug homeboys leach on to him is the reason there is so much backlash.

With the crap that is going on in the world today people really need to find something better to do with their time than protest against Michael Vick. Let the process play out in the courts and mind your own damn business.[/QUOTE]

I think that race plays a [I]limited[/I] role in this Vick fiasco. A minority of white people want to see Vick go down simply because he is black and famous and regardless of whether he is innocent. A minority of black people want to see Vick go scott free simply because he is black and regardless of whether he is guilty. The vast majority of us, however, want to see him go down if he is guilty because dog-fighting is just disgusting.

As for the protests, I think you underestimate PETA and the public's love of animals. It's not just that he ran a dog-fighting ring, it's that he shot, electrocuted, and [I]beat to death[/I] those dogs that were too nice to fight. In my opinion it is pathetic and he deserves what he has coming to him if he is guilty.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;333866]I think that race plays a [I]limited[/I] role in this Vick fiasco. A minority of white people want to see Vick go down simply because he is black and famous and regardless of whether he is innocent. A minority of black people want to see Vick go scott free simply because he is black and regardless of whether he is guilty. The vast majority of us, however, want to see him go down if he is guilty because dog-fighting is just disgusting.

As for the protests, I think you underestimate PETA and the public's love of animals. It's not just that he ran a dog-fighting ring, it's that he shot, electrocuted, and [I]beat to death[/I] those dogs that were too nice to fight. In my opinion it is pathetic and he deserves what he has coming to him if he is guilty.[/quote]

I am a dog lover/owner and I am black. But the media circus is just ridcules. Does anyone know if Vick actually killed theses dogs himself? It's like everyone wants to convict the guy before he goes to trial. The allegations are most likely coming from his hoodrat homeboys who are trying to save their own asses. So far the only thing he is guilty of is hanging on to these low life thugs.

But I do agree with you, if he is guilty of this and particularly if he was betting of dog fights then he needs to go down.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=firstdown;333622]Come on, why is this racial and Kobe Bryant was not. You saw the activest from PETA (people For The Ethical Treatment For Animals) they protest anywhere where there is said to be mistreatment of animals. They protest the Circus every year when it comes to town. If this was Farve he would be getting the same treatment and you left off that there where more people there cheering for Vick than against. Not sure how you cheer on a guy that is accused of these crimes not knowning if it is true or not. They also have done back ground checking and Vick has purchased around 10 guns which they have no idea where they are and I heard that another state is now investigating if Vick was involved in dog fighting in their state. I will not say if he is guilty or not but with the evidence that he is up against does not look to good and the Feds. have left the window open to press even more charges against him.[/quote]

Personally, I think Vick has a little bit of thug in him. He knew what was going on in his house. But how big his role was needs to play out in the courts. My point was you have all these people at the Falcons practice facility protesting. For what??? Vick isn't even there so why are they there??? If they want to protest go to Richmond or find somthing better to do. It makes no damn sense. People need to just chill out.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;333889]It's like everyone wants to convict the guy before he goes to trial. The allegations are most likely coming from his hoodrat homeboys who are trying to save their own asses. So far the only thing he is guilty of is hanging on to these low life thugs. [/QUOTE]

He will get his day in court. But, I do not need a jury to find beyond a reasonable doubt that the guy is a loser. I often hear stories from second-hand sources about some jerk doing something dumb and I conclude "that guy is a loser," all without the benefit of a trial by jury. Think about how many times you have reached conclusions about a politician, celebrity, neighbor, co-worker, etc. all based on second-hand reports/stories. I find no reason to treat Vick differenty.

As for the evidence arrayed against him, I would bet my paycheck that there is more to the prosecution's case than a few snitches. As some have already noted, they will likely have a pile of evidence consisting of, for example, financial records showing payments for dog-fighting paraphernalia, airline tickets or gas station receipts showing that Vick was at his residence on X dates and undoubtedly saw the dog-fighting facilities, phone records showing calls between Vick and other dog-fighting ringleaders, etc.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;333889]
But I do agree with you, if he is guilty of this and particularly if he was betting of dog fights then he needs to go down.[/QUOTE]


Well, I am all for trial by jury, but I would bet my house that he's guilty, the evidence is too overwhelming.
So give it time, he will be convicted.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

So uh, who is going to sign Vick in 2013? Any thoughts?

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;334137]So uh, who is going to sign Vick in 2013? Any thoughts?[/QUOTE]

Well, he'll only be 33 then. Someone might do it. especially considering that he'll have state of the art work out equipment in prison.
Sad thing is, he wasn't really even a "good" qb, but this happening will make others say "he was struck down in his prime, imagine what he could have done".

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=jsarno;334144]Well, he'll only be 33 then. Someone might do it. especially considering that he'll have state of the art work out equipment in prison.
Sad thing is, he wasn't really even a "good" qb, but this happening will make others say "he was struck down in his prime, imagine what he could have done".[/quote]
Ladies and Gentlemen, I would like to introduce the next Bo Jackson. Michael Vick

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;334147]Ladies and Gentlemen, I would like to introduce the next Bo Jackson. Michael Vick[/QUOTE]


Don't disgrace Bo...at least he was injured.

Vick should be Pete Rose'd in the NFL.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=jsarno;334154]Don't disgrace Bo...at least he was injured.

Vick should be Pete Rose'd in the NFL.[/quote]


Pete Rose should be in the HOF and you know it.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;334160]Pete Rose should be in the HOF and you know it.[/QUOTE]

Well, he should be...but only because he played a full career before becoming an idiot.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=jsarno;334165]Well, he should be...but only because he played a full career before becoming an idiot.[/quote]

I look at it this way.

A player is inducted to any hall of fame because of his historical contributions to the sport. He without a doubt has considerably contributed to baseball regardless of his infractions. He has already been punished. How much longer does this fiasco have to go on?

On a side note if the NFL refused to remove OJ Simpson from the Football HOF because he was inducted due to his contributions to the game, then it should be a professional standard. I understand that it is not. But, maybe it should be.

Thirdly, what is more of a travesty? Barry Bonds is still allowed to pursue the Home run record and he broke the rules and will possibly get into the Hall of Fame. I think that what Pete Rose did was Just as severe as what Bonds did. So if you will not let Rose into the HOF, then do not let Bonds continue to play for the record.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=angryssg;334137]So uh, who is going to sign Vick in 2013? Any thoughts?[/quote]

He may be guilty but he ain't doing any time for this. Even if he does some time it's not going to be anything significant. He is going to loose 07 and that's probably it. His days in Atl are over, but he'll be on someones roster next year.

I could see him going somewhere like KC. I'm not sure what the hell KC is thinking putting their future in the hands of Broodie Croyle. Vick probably needs a guy like Herm Edwards as his HC. Like a lot of these guys, he really needs somewhat of a father figure that he really respects. Whether the KC organization would want him is another story.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;333891]Personally, I think Vick has a little bit of thug in him. He knew what was going on in his house. But how big his role was needs to play out in the courts. My point was you have all these people at the Falcons practice facility protesting. For what??? Vick isn't even there so why are they there??? If they want to protest go to Richmond or find somthing better to do. It makes no damn sense. People need to just chill out.[/quote]
Its PETA people and this is the kind of stuff they do. Their home base is located here in Norfolk, Va. so they are in the local news very often. The reason they are protesting the Falcons is to put preasure on them to get rid of Vick even though he has not been found guilty of the crimes. I think that the Falcons are in a tough spot because of the nature of the crimes that he is acused of but he has not been convicted of anything. I'll agree that the media goes wild over this stuff and everyone wants to be the first to report on what going on but anyone with his high profile would get the same treatment. It just goes with the job and fame.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/07/30/vick.dogfighting/index.html]Vick co-defendant pleads guilty - CNN.com[/url]
[QUOTE]One of the co-defendants in the Michael Vick federal dogfighting case entered a guilty plea on Monday and pledged to fully cooperate with prosecutors.[/QUOTE]

I wonder if this means that things are about to get even worse for Vick.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Anyone remember what Leonard Little did of the Rams? He was driving drunk and wrecked into a women and killed her. Then he got caught driving drunk again after he killed someone. Yet, he is still playing in the NFL. This guy should have been thrown out of the league. What he did was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse than what Vick did. But if I remember correctly, his case did not get nearly the media attention this case is getting.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=ArtMonkDrillz;334216][url=http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/07/30/vick.dogfighting/index.html]Vick co-defendant pleads guilty - CNN.com[/url]


I wonder if this means that things are about to get even worse for Vick.[/QUOTE]

Very much so. This guy will be the star witness for the prosecution and he will make Vick look very bad. I really think Vick is going to jail.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Leonard Little definately did something that had far, far, far worse consequences. But, he's nowhere near the star that Vick is/was. So, I can understand why Vick's case is getting so much press whereas Little's case didn't.

As for Vick doing time, federal judges must give a sentence within a certain range. I know the federal sentencing guidelines quite well (I worked on a few appeals relating to them) and if Vick is found guilty on all the charges, he's no going to be playing football anytime soon. You hear about sentences in state cases being really strange/light/inconsistent, but we're talking about federal charges. Different story.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;334238]Leonard Little definately did something that had far, far, far worse consequences. But, he's nowhere near the star that Vick is/was. So, I can understand why Vick's case is getting so much press whereas Little's case didn't.

As for Vick doing time, federal judges must give a sentence within a certain range. I know the federal sentencing guidelines quite well (I worked on a few appeals relating to them) and if Vick is found guilty on all the charges, he's no going to be playing football anytime soon. You hear about sentences in state cases being really strange/light/inconsistent, but we're talking about federal charges. Different story.[/QUOTE]

I heard that about Federal sentences on some talk show but wondered if it was really true. It sounds like it is. Thanks for making that clear. If Vick is found guilty of the crime he will do the time.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=irish;334249]I heard that about Federal sentences on some talk show but wondered if it was really true. It sounds like it is. Thanks for making that clear. If Vick is found guilty of the crime he will do the time.[/QUOTE]

What I said is not entirely accurate, but it is basically true. Since about 2002, the federal sentencing guidelines have been, technically, merely advisory and not mandatory. That said, federal judges very rarely depart from the sentencing guidelines. So while my previous post was not entirely accurate, the substance (i.e., if Vick is convicted on all the charges he will see a lot of jail time) was correct.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

the feds are really out to get his ass and send him to jail.one of his co-defendants plead guilty today and will no doubt testify against vick.since his
trial is november 23rd,i can't see him playing this year much,if at all.if this is'nt cleared up within the next5 weeks,i can't see him playing at all!if he gets cut and hope the redskins pursue him when all his troubles clear up!

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;334209]He may be guilty but he ain't doing any time for this. Even if he does some time it's not going to be anything significant. He is going to loose 07 and that's probably it. His days in Atl are over, but he'll be on someones roster next year.

I could see him going somewhere like KC. I'm not sure what the hell KC is thinking putting their future in the hands of Broodie Croyle. Vick probably needs a guy like Herm Edwards as his HC. Like a lot of these guys, he really needs somewhat of a father figure that he really respects. Whether the KC organization would want him is another story.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure the Raiders wouldn't be scared off by his felony. They'd probably embrace him.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;334238]Leonard Little definately did something that had far, far, far worse consequences. But, he's nowhere near the star that Vick is/was. So, I can understand why Vick's case is getting so much press whereas Little's case didn't.

As for Vick doing time, federal judges must give a sentence within a certain range. I know the federal sentencing guidelines quite well (I worked on a few appeals relating to them) and if Vick is found guilty on all the charges, he's no going to be playing football anytime soon. You hear about sentences in state cases being really strange/light/inconsistent, but we're talking about federal charges. Different story.[/quote]
If he is convicted of the crimes I've heard thats when the killing and abuse will come back against Vick. They will point out how brutle what they did was and ask for the maximum time against him. I also think that this guy who pleaded with them is going to hurt Vick allot. They can discredit him some but they can find people to back up his story. Like he said he found the house for vick so then they can just look up the Realtor who he delt with to back up his story.