Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;411180]actually some sound points here by Wilbon:

But to the outside world it looks like Snyder, with all these meetings, is trying to find a reason to promote Williams . . . or a reason not to. And that's fine, because Snyder is the one who's going to be on the hook for, what, $12 million at the very least? He ought to make sure he's comfortable with the next coach.

What I really want to know is how this fancy new title changes Cerrato's life. If he's got the exact same duties and has input but no power to make football decisions, so what? If he's the Boss of All Things Football, a position I keep pushing Snyder to create, then this could be a significant step in the right direction. Cerrato has taken more criticism than anybody in the organization. [B]But I know this much: His advice as to what to do was wiser in several instances than the course of action the Redskins took. [/B][/QUOTE]


Thanks for showing me how to post my link properly! :)

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain;411013]Help me understand this one.. Are you related to GW?[/QUOTE]

No not realated.

I really respect Gregg Williams and have enjoyed watching his defense play over the past four years(except 06).

That and I really hate Fassel. Almost as much as I hated Spurrier before we hired him. But I gave him a chance, and I suppose I will give Fassel one too.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

Maybe this should be in the Vinny thread, but I think it fits here too.
This is what really upsets me about the way this whole thing is being handled:

[QUOTE]Other stuff: Two Redskins coaches have their contracts expiring, RB coach Earnest Byner and LB coach Kirk Olivadotti. League sources would not be surprised to see Byner end up back with the Ravens possibly in the same role ... [B]The Redskins contingent in Mobile is up in arms. Players and coaches are distraught over the poorly worded press release regarding Cerrato's promotion and Jim Fassel's emergence as a candidate with multiple interviews.[/B] They are taking a lot of grief from other team''s people down there and, according to some league sources, the word "laughingstock" is being thrown around in regards to how the team is operating. [B]The timing of the Cerrato release and the fact that it stated he would have "roster" control was a big issue down there; that's always the domain of the coach.[/B] The team later backtracked on that issue when I pushed it with them and said any new coach would pick the players, but the inclusion of that word, clumsily or not, read like a "shot across the bow," according to one GM. Of course the players and coaches have a vested stake in Williams getting the gig, too, as it would mean greater security for them and in many cases a contract extension or re-negotiation.[/QUOTE][url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/]Redskins Insider[/url] (from JLC):

I know all the players and coaches are professionals, but why piss all of them off like this? Pros or not, they should have a big influence on the future of this team but it sounds like Danny and Vinny are just going to do their own thing no matter what.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=ArtMonkDrillz;411197]Maybe this should be in the Vinny thread, but I think it fits here too.
This is what really upsets me about the way this whole thing is being handled:

[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/]Redskins Insider[/url] (from JLC):

I know all the players and coaches are professionals, but why piss all of them off like this? Pros or not, they should have a big influence on the future of this team but it sounds like Danny and Vinny are just going to do their own thing no matter what.[/QUOTE]

Wow this is getting alot worse quickly!

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;411197]Maybe this should be in the Vinny thread, but I think it fits here too.
This is what really upsets me about the way this whole thing is being handled:

[URL="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/"]Redskins Insider[/URL] (from JLC):

I know all the players and coaches are professionals, but why piss all of them off like this? Pros or not, they should have a big influence on the future of this team but it sounds like Danny and Vinny are just going to do their own thing no matter what.[/quote]

Yea, this keeps getting worse. This is why i stated last night imo, I don't trust our FO to handle this organization the right way. They seem to be able to p*** off our coaches and players like no other. For all of the bs "true redskin" talk and family talk they really could give a sh**. Maybe i'm overreacting a little but let's see what plays out.

Again, can't we do better than renting Jim Fassel for a couple of years?

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=ArtMonkDrillz;411197]Maybe this should be in the Vinny thread, but I think it fits here too.
This is what really upsets me about the way this whole thing is being handled:

[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/]Redskins Insider[/url] (from JLC):

[B]I know all the players and coaches are professionals[/B], but why piss all of them off like this? Pros or not, they should have a big influence on the future of this team but it sounds like Danny and Vinny are just going to do their own thing no matter what.[/QUOTE]

I'd caveat that to a degree. They are professionals but to what extent. If there is a new coach from outside the organization, and they are fired, do you think they are going to give their best evaluations of the talent in Mobile? It's like a boss firing somebody and then asking them to fill out some reports. Ain't gonna happen. They don't have to worry about getting a bad reference because everybody in league knows the situation.
Speaking of references, I wonder if DS called up the Giants and Ravens and asked about Fassel. If so, their response was probably something like "well he sucked so bad here we had to fire him but I am sure he'll work out great for you guys. Snicker."

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

If we are not going to promote from within (Greg Williams), then why are we going after another old fart re-tread in Fassal or should I say Fossell! Geez! I think I will sell all of my Redskins stuff and pick a new team, with a more normal owner! The rollercoaster we have all been on since Snyder bought this Fantasy Football team has to end.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=redwagonskins;411210]I'd caveat that to a degree. They are professionals but to what extent. If there is a new coach from outside the organization, and they are fired, do you think they are going to give their best evaluations of the talent in Mobile? It's like a boss firing somebody and then asking them to fill out some reports. Ain't gonna happen. They don't have to worry about getting a bad reference because everybody in league knows the situation.
Speaking of references, I wonder if DS called up the Giants and Ravens and asked about Fassel. If so, their response was probably something like "well he sucked so bad here we had to fire him but I am sure he'll work out great for you guys. Snicker."[/quote]

It's not so much about pleasing the players, it's about hiring a strong coach that has the potential to be a coach for a long period of time. IMO that's not Fassel, it is GW. And if not GW, than find someone better than JF.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=redsk1;411237]It's not so much about pleasing the players, it's about hiring a strong coach that has the potential to be a coach for a long period of time. IMO that's not Fassel, it is GW. And if not GW, than find someone better than JF.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=scowan;411217]If we are not going to promote from within (Greg Williams), then why are we going after another old fart re-tread in Fassal or should I say Fossell! Geez! I think I will sell all of my Redskins stuff and pick a new team, with a more normal owner! The rollercoaster we have all been on since Snyder bought this Fantasy Football team has to end.[/quote]

don't say things you can't take back...especially around here

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=GTripp0012;411084]I think you are jumping a pretty big gap in logic here. Just because Gibbs supports Williams and Williams coached under Gibbs [I]does not[/I] automatically make him more fit for the job.

The players endorse him, much because they have to. That doesn't mean Snyder should be cornered into hiring Gregg Williams if he doesn't feel he's fit to be coach of the Redskins.

The Redskins went through due process on this one. They interviewed a bunch of candidates. They gave second interviews. Snyder included Vinny and Gibbs in the process. The methodology of this decision had everything we as fans could ask for.

I already know the single best candidate for the job (Schwartz) is going to get passed up. The point is, if Danny feels that Fassel makes a better coach than Williams (and the evidence is conflicting), we really can't produce any conclusive evidence that the team is better or worse off. Why not just optimistically wait and see?[/quote]

I'm not saying that Gggrilliamsss is more qualified strictly because he coached under Joe. In fact, I'm quite aware and open to the idea that Gregggg could be a disaster as a head coach. However, I think the same is true of nearly every other coach that's been discussed, and doubly so of some.

For my money, I'd like Gregggg to at least have the chance to try and fail, rather than throw away the spirit of the team we've been building for the past 4 years and hope for the best with an entirely new regime.

My point is that Snyder could be making decisions now on a macro level in the same vein as the way we were making personnel decisions on a micro level for the past few years: go for the instant gratification, get the guy who's surely the best "big name" coach, etc.

Business is business, but that's not necessarily what The Redskins is all about. I think Joe proved that in both campaigns here.

Secondly, Snyder isn't being "conned" into anything. If you lure a guy into a role as a #2 guy, keep leading him on to ensure he doesn't chase other potential offers, make him all kinds of assurances that he's the heir to the throne, and he (mostly) does his job well during that time, and then turn around and say "you know, contractually, I don't really HAVE to give you the job, I can contractually just pay you a few bucks out of my enormous wallet", well, I think that sends a pretty clear message to players, coaches and fans.

Contractually he may be in the right, but it sure seems like he's a guy whose word doesn't mean a whole lot when all is said and done.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

Here's the thing. If Williams was named coach the day after Gibbs resigned, and then he made wholesale changes (or even if he didn't) and the team tanked then we'd still have people panicking and bitching and asking "Why didn't we go through a diligent interview process?" "What did Williams do to deserve being handed the full reigns?" And so on.

A lot of people feel the need to bitch and moan about everything all the time. That much should be pretty apparent to all of us by now.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=SmootSmack;411261]Here's the thing. If Williams was named coach the day after Gibbs resigned, and then he made wholesale changes (or even if he didn't) and the team tanked then we'd still have people panicking and bitching and asking "Why didn't we go through a diligent interview process?" "What did Williams do to deserve being handed the full reigns?" And so on.

A lot of people feel the need to bitch and moan about everything all the time. That much should be pretty apparent to all of us by now.[/quote]

While this is true as a generalism, you're also underestimating the number of fans who appreciate loyalty and effort over the cutthroat, "it's-just-business" mentality.

As a guy who staunchly supported Joe during some of the darkest days of his career this year, I'm surprised you are so ambivalent to the idea of casting Ggggrilliamsss aside and reshuffling the entire coaching staff.

The comments now coming out of Alabama are precisely the kind of thing I was talking about earlier. Snyder is sending a message, and it's not the kind of message we got from Redskins Park when Joe was in town.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=SmootSmack;411261]Here's the thing. If Williams was named coach the day after Gibbs resigned, and then he made wholesale changes (or even if he didn't) and the team tanked then we'd still have people panicking and bitching and asking "Why didn't we go through a diligent interview process?" "What did Williams do to deserve being handed the full reigns?" And so on.

A lot of people feel the need to bitch and moan about everything all the time. That much should be pretty apparent to all of us by now.[/quote]

Sooooo, you have no complaints about how this is being handled?

I'm not in love with GW as HC, but I certainly hoped it would happen.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

If assured that hiring Williams to be head coach (and only head coach) would mean continuity in terms of keeping key assistants, same philosophy on both sides of the ball, and so on then yeah I think Williams is the best coach for this team. If you're asking is the most skilled head coach, then no I don't think he is. If I'm hiring a coach that's not from this organization then Wiliams is not my first choice, probably not even my second or third. But he is, and that shouldn't be ignored.

Ideally a head coach would have been selected by now, but he hasn't been. And again, while I don't think Fassel is the best choice, I don't think he's a horrible selection (if he were to bring in Billick as his OC then we might have an issue) and I, quite honestly, think people here are being idiots for panicking and saying shit like "I'm going to sell all my Redskins stuff."

So many have wanted Snyder to be "patient" for years now, and it's pretty pathetic that "knowledgeable fans" can't seem to do the same.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=SmootSmack;411284]If assured that hiring Williams to be head coach (and only head coach) would mean continuity in terms of keeping key assistants, same philosophy on both sides of the ball, and so on then yeah I think Williams is the best coach for this team. If you're asking is the most skilled head coach, then no I don't think he is. If I'm hiring a coach that's not from this organization then Wiliams is not my first choice, probably not even my second or third. But he is, and that shouldn't be ignored.

Ideally a head coach would have been selected by now, but he hasn't been. And again, while I don't think Fassel is the best choice, I don't think he's a horrible selection (if he were to bring in Billick as his OC then we might have an issue) and I, quite honestly, think people here are being idiots for panicking and saying shit like "I'm going to sell all my Redskins stuff."

So many have wanted Snyder to be "patient" for years now, and it's pretty pathetic that "knowledgeable fans" can't seem to do the same.[/quote]

I agree with the "freak out" stuff. But let's just assume the potential coach in question wasn't Fassel. Let's say it was Cowher. Everyone's tone around here would probably be a lot different. Fassel didn't exactly leave the league on a good note. In '06 he was fired mid-season by the Ravens, who proceeded to go 9-1 after he left. I just wonder what's so great about Fassel in Danny's eyes. Is it solely his skill at QB development? Of late he's unsuccessfully interviewed for a few coordinator positions (most recently OC in KC), but suddenly he's numero uno for the Skins? For me, the frustration lies in not understanding the decision making process. And hearing other league sources refer to us as a "laughing stock" is no fun.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=redsk1;411237]It's not so much about pleasing the players, it's about hiring a strong coach that has the potential to be a coach for a long period of time. IMO that's not Fassel, it is GW. And if not GW, than find someone better than JF.[/QUOTE]

i,m there also..if it aint gregg then find someone who will make a name for himself "long term".

do the right thing for the skins organization and it,s players...
1.4 billion for this:spank:

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=SmootSmack;411284]I, quite honestly, think people here are being idiots for panicking and saying shit like "I'm going to sell all my Redskins stuff."

So many have wanted Snyder to be "patient" for years now, and it's pretty pathetic that "knowledgeable fans" can't seem to do the same.[/quote]


Of course, anybody who's talking like that has issues, but it also again speaks to the desire of a lot of people for stability, professionalism and class, and I don't see how anyone can NOT see the change in Snyder and the organization in the weeks since Joe resigned.

I think what a lot of us had hoped is that Snyder had learned more from Joe about leadership and how to be a good citizen as well as a winner. The jury is still out and he may yet prove that he has, but I don't think it's surprising that fans are feeling flashbacks to the days of early Snyder.

I've never been a huge Danny-basher (okay, the Spurrier thing notwithstanding), because unlike a lot of owners (*cough BIDWELLS *cough), he actually puts his money where his mouth is and tries to improve the team. But I'm starting to realize that his team is really a reflection of his ownership style. Inconsistent and frankly, middle-of-the-road.

Wilbon got it right that we're probably a safe bet for an 8-8 team at any given season right now, and I think Snyder's a safe bet for a pretty average owner, in terms of his understanding of what it takes to build a winning franchise and keep it running. He's no Bidwell or Ford, but he's no Rooney or Bob Kraft, either.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

I'm still hoping it's Williams with Schwartz as his top lieutenant. But the point is why do you need to understand the decision making process? Especially why now when the decision is not even made. Did Steelers fans understand the decision making process of hiring Tomlin, and not Grimm or Whisenhunt?

We all want the steak, but is it really so important that we know how the cow was slaughtered?

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;411315]I'm still hoping it's Williams with Schwartz as his top lieutenant. But the point is why do you need to understand the decision making process? Especially why now when the decision is not even made. Did Steelers fans understand the decision making process of hiring Tomlin, and not Grimm or Whisenhunt?

We all want the steak, but is it really so important that we know how the cow was slaughtered?[/QUOTE]it is if you're Kosher

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=SmootSmack;411315]I'm still hoping it's Williams with Schwartz as his top lieutenant. But the point is why do you need to understand the decision making process? Especially why now when the decision is not even made. Did Steelers fans understand the decision making process of hiring Tomlin, and not Grimm or Whisenhunt?

We all want the steak, but is it really so important that we know how the cow was slaughtered?[/quote]

I'm sure some Steelers fans were initially unhappy with Tomlin, but largely it was a non-issue. Why?

Because Steelers fans know that unlike Snyder, the Rooneys value stability and loyalty, and return the favor to their coaches and players. I mean, I could be wrong here, but I don't recall any ex-Steelers having gone through the kind of debacles that we've had here with coaches and players (Coles, Arrington, Arch, Lloyd, etc.)

This is exactly what I'm talking about. The end does not justify the means. The process IS news, it IS being reported, and people ARE hearing about things, rumors or not, and it all leaves a bad taste in your mouth about the man who owns your beloved football team.

At this point, regardless of what decision Snyder makes, it appears that he is still the meddler he always was, and that damage has been done. Right or wrong, if he had chosen to continue with the current staff, I believe he would have earned a lot of praise from fans, media, and players alike.

But he doesn't seem to care about any of that. It seems like he wants a ring, and he doesn't care what he has to do to get one.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=SouperMeister;411143]One note on that - look at some of the most successful QB's over the past decade, and they spent their formative years with the same offensive guru:

Tom Brady (Charlie Weis): 2000-2004
Brett Favre (Mike Holmgren): 1992-1998
Peyton Manning (Tom Moore): 1998-Present
Donovan McNabb (Andy Reid): 1999-Present

The Saunders system has worked everywhere else he has been, but we knew that there was a 2 year learning curve based on past results. I was really hoping Al Saunders would be able to work with Campbell for an extended period. Changing the OC every two years just kills offensive stability and chemistry. I guess that change for changes sake is embedded in The Danny's DNA, and he will never learn.[/quote]I think you are looking at that backwards. The reason all those coaches held job/got promoted is because (and Reid is the exception to this rule) they were coaching all-time great quarterbacks. The results were excellent (because of the Quarterback), so the need for coaching upheaval was subdued.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=GTripp0012;411318]I think you are looking at that backwards. The reason all those coaches held job/got promoted is because (and Reid is the exception to this rule) they were coaching all-time great quarterbacks. The results were excellent (because of the Quarterback), so the need for coaching upheaval was subdued.[/quote]

Are there counterexamples of great QB's who have flourished with a number of different offensive coordinators? Say, from attrition due to promotion?

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=SmootSmack;411315]I'm still hoping it's Williams with Schwartz as his top lieutenant. But the point is why do you need to understand the decision making process? Especially why now when the decision is not even made. Did Steelers fans understand the decision making process of hiring Tomlin, and not Grimm or Whisenhunt?

We all want the steak, but is it really so important that we know how the cow was slaughtered?[/quote]

I agree with the argument that "continuity" is a bit overrated b/c players obviously want as little change as possible after a solid season. I don't need to understand every decision making process, but I'd like to know what's so great about Fassel as it relates to the Redskins.

Tomlin was an active coach in the league and an excellent coordinator when he was hired by Pitt. Fassel was fired a year and a half ago and hasn't returned. I understand what you're getting at, but this situation is a little different.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=SmootSmack;411315]I'm still hoping it's Williams with Schwartz as his top lieutenant. But the point is why do you need to understand the decision making process? Especially why now when the decision is not even made. Did Steelers fans understand the decision making process of hiring Tomlin, and not Grimm or Whisenhunt?

We all want the steak, but is it really so important that we know how the cow was slaughtered?[/quote]

It's not so much the process that I think has people upset right now. The fact that this has drawn the attention of outsiders speaks volumes about how this all is being handled. On some level, I feel as though he's being a bit insensitive to what the franchise and the fans have gone through this seaon. From Taylor's death, to the injuries, the up and down season, to the unexpected and abrupt departure of Joe Gibbs.

It's certainly within Dan Snyder's rights to interview as many candidates he deems appropriate, but I'm getting the feeling that all he's thinking about here is Dan Snyder. Not the Redskins, not the fans. Sure he has to do his "due dilligence" or whatever. It's within his rights and responsibility as an owner.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that this team and city need some closure on this. I think by dragging this out, like many feel he is indeed doing, he's not allowing us to collectively get closure on a somewhat sensitive matter - replacing a coaching legend.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

1. Fassel has had success as a head coach, Williams has not
2. Fassel has had success developing QBs, Williams has not
3. Fassel is looking to get back into coaching and his demands are probably lower than Williams (guessing here)

But the first two are the two main reasons in support of Fassel.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

Just gonna throw this out there for the heck of it, what if Fassel takes over as HC gets rid of Saunders, but keeps Williams. How would people feel about that?

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=SmootSmack;411326]1. Fassel has had success as a head coach, Williams has not
2. Fassel has had success developing QBs, Williams has not
3. Fassel is looking to get back into coaching and his demands are probably lower than Williams (guessing here)

But the first two are the two main reasons in support of Fassel.[/quote]

just heard on 980 that they are offering the job to Fassel

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=dgack;411321]Are there counterexamples of great QB's who have flourished with a number of different offensive coordinators? Say, from attrition due to promotion?[/quote]I can't think of one who had a bunch of different coordinators, but I can give a few examples of QBs who stayed right on their development path despite upheaval in the coaching staff:

Ben Roethlisberger (2007) Cowher/Whisenhunt-->Arians/Tomlin
Marc Bulger (2006) Martz-->Linehan
Tom Brady (2005) Weis-->McDainels
Rich Gannon (2002) Gruden-->Trestman/Callahan

Obviously, the volume of coaches getting promoted/retiring duing a period of prolonged success are slim, but it seems like talented QBs will always overcome.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=GTripp0012;411318]I think you are looking at that backwards. The reason all those coaches held job/got promoted is because (and Reid is the exception to this rule) they were coaching all-time great quarterbacks. The results were excellent (because of the Quarterback), so the need for coaching upheaval was subdued.[/quote]GTripp, I'm often on the same page with you, but I respectfully disagree with your opinion on this. You can perhaps say that McNabb and Manning were destined for greatness as a #2 and a #1 overall draft choice, but it certainly didn't hurt their progression being in the same system with the same offensive coach, from Day One. Indy DID fire Jim Mora, but did the smart thing by retaining Tom Moore as OC to continue Manning's development. And BTW, NOBODY saw or predicted all-time greatness for Favre or Brady when they first came into the league - they were afterthoughts. Favre was the #3 QB in Atlanta, and wasn't even the starter in GB when Holmgren traded for him. Brady was a so-so QB in college picked late in the draft. I would argue that their professional growth was accelerated by staying in one system under one offensive coach during their early development as QBs. The argument could be extended to others (Troy Aikman w/Norv Turner, Marc Bulger w/Mike Martz, Matt Hasselbeck w/Holmgren, etc.). It's only natural that a young QB would be most comfortable given the chance to progress in a given system for more than a year or two. I only wish that Jason Campbell would get that chance.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;411383]GTripp, I'm often on the same page with you, but I respectfully disagree with your opinion on this. You can perhaps say that McNabb and Manning were destined for greatness as a #2 and a #1 overall draft choice, but it certainly didn't hurt their progression being in the same system with the same offensive coach, from Day One. Indy DID fire Jim Mora, but did the smart thing by retaining Tom Moore as OC to continue Manning's development. And BTW, NOBODY saw or predicted all-time greatness for Favre or Brady when they first came into the league - they were afterthoughts. Favre was the #3 QB in Atlanta, and wasn't even the starter in GB when Holmgren traded for him. Brady was a so-so QB in college picked late in the draft. I would argue that their professional growth was accelerated by staying in one system under one offensive coach during their early development as QBs. The argument could be extended to others (Troy Aikman w/Norv Turner, Marc Bulger w/Mike Martz, Matt Hasselbeck w/Holmgren, etc.). It's only natural that a young QB would be most comfortable given the chance to progress in a given system for more than a year or two. I only wish that Jason Campbell would get that chance.[/QUOTE]

But what if Saunders' system just isn't the right one for Campbell? What if it's the Fassel/Musgrave system? I hear what you're saying, but I just wonder if we should step back and take another look at why we really want Campbell/Saunders to continue together.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=SmootSmack;411388]But what if Saunders' system just isn't the right one for Campbell? What if it's the Fassel/Musgrave system? I hear what you're saying, but I just wonder if we should step back and take another look at why we really want Campbell/Saunders to continue together.[/quote]I thought Campbell showed progress this season, which led me to believe that Year 3 under Saunders would lead to Campbell's "light bulb" moment, when everything became clear, and the game slowed down for him. We'll probably never know given the rumors flying around today.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

:Flush:If only Ramsey had had another year in Spurriers system.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=drew54;411404]:Flush:If only Ramsey had had another year in Spurriers system.[/QUOTE]

Sigh.. See signature below..

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain;411415]Sigh.. See signature below..[/QUOTE]

Nice!... At that time I was upset about Jason Campbell getting drafted Now I think I am just upset that we constantly change personel that you almost don't want to like a coach or player too much because they are probably here for 4 years or less.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=SouperMeister;411383]GTripp, I'm often on the same page with you, but I respectfully disagree with your opinion on this. You can perhaps say that McNabb and Manning were destined for greatness as a #2 and a #1 overall draft choice, but it certainly didn't hurt their progression being in the same system with the same offensive coach, from Day One. Indy DID fire Jim Mora, but did the smart thing by retaining Tom Moore as OC to continue Manning's development. And BTW, NOBODY saw or predicted all-time greatness for Favre or Brady when they first came into the league - they were afterthoughts. Favre was the #3 QB in Atlanta, and wasn't even the starter in GB when Holmgren traded for him. Brady was a so-so QB in college picked late in the draft. I would argue that their professional growth was accelerated by staying in one system under one offensive coach during their early development as QBs. The argument could be extended to others (Troy Aikman w/Norv Turner, Marc Bulger w/Mike Martz, Matt Hasselbeck w/Holmgren, etc.). It's only natural that a young QB would be most comfortable given the chance to progress in a given system for more than a year or two. I only wish that Jason Campbell would get that chance.[/quote]

Exactly! If you draft a QB and give up 2 #1 picks for the guy, STOP CHANGING THE OFFENSES AROUND EVERY DAMN YEAR. QB is the most important position on your team. JC is going into his 4th year and this is going to be his 3rd offense in his NFL career. Sorry but that's just really stupid shit. You didn't see that stuff happening to the other top NFL QB's. Great example about Manning. Irsay canned Mora but he knew damn well to keep the offense in place. If the two fools (Snyder and Vinny) don't like Williams then fine. Get rid of the guy. But at all costs keep Al working with JC.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=Paintrain;411415]Sigh.. See signature below..[/quote]

Not to dive into the ridiculous Ramsey debate again but he's had plenty of chances elsewhere with similar results, or lack of results I should say. People need to give up on this silly notion that he was headed for greatness before he was derailed by the evil Joe Gibbs.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;411484]Not to dive into the ridiculous Ramsey debate again but he's had plenty of chances elsewhere with similar results, or lack of results I should say. People need to give up on this silly notion that he was headed for greatness before he was derailed by the evil Joe Gibbs.[/QUOTE]

Please note I was kidding.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

Time to get a new QB as Campbell was a Saunders and Gibbs man and we need to clean house now

[QUOTE=drew54;411431]Nice!... At that time I was upset about Jason Campbell getting drafted Now I think I am just upset that we constantly change personel that you almost don't want to like a coach or player too much because they are probably here for 4 years or less.[/QUOTE]

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

Someone on the WP must of listened and posted a poll on the Fassel hiring, over 49% of people selected HORRIBLE. Come on people keep voting against him if you look are under "Polls".