Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359;421455]Honestly the Laverneus Coles first round pick exchange worked. So I have no problem trading a first round pick for an elite player. The way I look at it is weather or not you could draft a player at the spot your in and then then trade for the same player for an elite guy like Chad Johnson (Would anyone trade Limas Sweed for Chad Johnson?). In most cases (as it relates to the 21st pick) probably not, unless a Brady Quinn type fell to you at that spot.

[B]Also a lot of you are fogetting that the best DE's and OL are found either at the top of the first round or in the second and third round. Guys like Strahan, Elvis, Jared Allen, Osi, Aaron Kampman, Jason Taylor, Justin Tuck,Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, Adewale Ogunleye, Derrick Burgess were all
picked after the first round.
[/B]
With the OL the general feeling is get an elite LT at the top of the first round and the rest of the OL in the second, third and fourth rounds. Thats why guys who might be one of the top 10 players in the draft like [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Kalil"][COLOR=#0000ff]Ryan Kalil[/COLOR][/URL] end up in the bottom of the second round.

The question here is do we get away giving up just a first round pick or a first and third? However CJ will be a Redskin, at this point its only a matter of time.[/QUOTE]

You are forgetting that history has shown our current front office can not find DL like Osi and Strahan in the second round or any round. Nobody outside of Redskins fans know who Anthony Montgomery and Kedrik Golsten are. We have not drafted a good DL since 1997 Kenard Lang. That is a long time. It took Gibbs coming back for us to start drafting defensive players again. In the entire 2002 and 2003 drafts we took all offensive players except a 7th round DE. Snyderatto does not understand that defense wins championships.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=RobH4413;421099]I think we'll give up Moss and a 1st or 2nd round pick for him...

All of our depth at solid #2,3 receivers etc... it just makes sense.

Anybody have any idea about the contract implications to a deal like this?[/QUOTE]

Please tell me your kidding. Dumbest post ever. Yea why dont we throw in Samuels just for a bonus. Why would you want to unload moss?

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=WaldSkins;421498]fitz just plays ball, after a td he just gives the ball to a ref and runs to the sideline. classy player[/QUOTE]

He's great but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be cheap

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;421512]He's great but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be cheap[/QUOTE]

Compared to CJ i would think he would be. And if Cincy want a first for CJ, I think id rather take Roy Williams which is available for a 2nd. He is more of a TO type reciever. Can play on the outside or in the slot. Breaks tackles and is a huge target.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

does anyone know when santana's contract expires???

i think him and chad would make a SICK combo.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=WaldSkins;421515]Compared to CJ i would think he would be. And if Cincy want a first for CJ, I think id rather take Roy Williams which is available for a 2nd. He is more of a TO type reciever. Can play on the outside or in the slot. Breaks tackles and is a huge target.[/QUOTE]

Possibly, but isn't Fitz's base contract something like $16 million for 2008? Granted, CJ would be looking for a new deal but probably wouldn't get that much considering his age and current salary

Money aside, you really can't go wrong with any of them. I'd rather trade for one of them, even if it meant giving up our first, rather than drafting a WR in the first round. I'm just not sold on selecting WRs in the first round.

But let's say you sent the 1st and a player (Rocky?) to Cincy for CJ and a 4th (trust me, it could happen). Then you get CJ, you hope Lawrence Jackson falls to you in the 2nd round so you get your DE there (the biggest obstacle for Jackson could be the Bengals, but if they get our first round pick then they can get their DE there and Jackson can fall to us), 3rd and 4th rounds you go filling your CB and OL needs

Of course in a more ideal, yet unlikely world you ship a 3rd rounder to Detroit for Roy Williams so 1st round-Talib or Cason, 2nd-Jackson, 3rd-trade for Williams, use the back end of the draft for line help

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

We need real Redskins, not circus clowns looking to hit the lottery. I hope we just pass.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=Defensewins;421506]You are forgetting that history has shown our current front office can not find DL like Osi and Strahan in the second round or any round. Nobody outside of Redskins fans know who Anthony Montgomery and Kedrik Golsten are. We have not drafted a good DL since 1997 Kenard Lang. That is a long time. It took Gibbs coming back for us to start drafting defensive players again. In the entire 2002 and 2003 drafts we took all offensive players except a 7th round DE. Snyderatto does not understand that defense wins championships.[/quote]

Lol, I can't believe that I'm hearing Defense wins championship from a guy whos SN is DefenseWins. I agree that defense wins championships but offense is important too and I think that Randy Moss and Wes Welker helped prove that (If they have a running game then theres no way the Giants win that game, but they don't so in the end we got to see the greatest upset in NFL history). Hopefully Snyderatto will draft a DL in the second and an OL the third. Either way I have a feeling that we can say goodbye to our first round pick. The only thing I'm hoping for is that we don't throw in the kitchen sink and give the Bengals a second or third. Of course this comment from a Bengals message board always gives me a good laugh

[quote=GatorClaws;421491]give me a 2nd plus Cooley and it's a done deal
[/quote]

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

Yeah, how stupid. Cooley doesn't make it rain, he makes it friggin' hail! Plus, we need two Cooley caliber tight ends to run the WCO effectively. No way in hell Cooley EVER leaves Washington. Mark my words. Now... since that is out of the way... I changed my mind. Trade Moss and the third round pick for CJ. Draft a DE in the first, and go after something else in the second. Boom... elite reciver for a gimpy punt returner, and a third rounder that we wont need as much. Hopefully Carlos will come back, and learn how to cover, it's sad cause he's so athletic... but I'd say Jansen and Samuels are aging... depth for them would be nice. I don't ever wanna see Pucillo line up again. We need OL, and a good DE. Thats all I think. Maybe even a stud LB... cause we wont be seeing Rocky this year and Marcus isn't producing like he should.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=irish;415833]I would prefer Moss but the problem with getting Moss is that the Skins are not enough of a consistent winner to keep him from starting to complain. CJ would also be good but like a previous post mentioned, he will not be happy when JC keeps missing him when he's open.

What I really wish is that the Skins could develop their own talent at cheaper prices rather than always overpaying for someone else's talent that just had a huge year.[/QUOTE]

That would require the ability to evaluate talent, which we do not have.

Just what we need another WR, how about O-linemen? Personally I think it's a joke to even consider bringing him in here. A self serving loudmouth is the last thing we need. Our WR's will be huge in this new system if Campbell can get them the ball, but if he can't find Moss or El, he ain't gonna find BIG TIME Chad Johnson either. Absolutely no reason to even be considering this move!

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

Why the hell do we always try to initiate trades when CJ is working hard to get out of Cinnci? Openly coveting their another teams player only increases the asking price for that player.

It's simple supply and demand and I pray that all this hype about CJ is Rosenhaus's way of getting attention for his client.


Trading for CJ is a dumb move that would only propagate the same mistakes we've already made in the past.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;421523]Possibly, but isn't Fitz's base contract something like $16 million for 2008? Granted, CJ would be looking for a new deal but probably wouldn't get that much considering his age and current salary

Money aside, you really can't go wrong with any of them. I'd rather trade for one of them, even if it meant giving up our first, rather than drafting a WR in the first round. I'm just not sold on selecting WRs in the first round.

[B]But let's say you sent the 1st and a player (Rocky?) to Cincy for CJ and a 4th (trust me, it could happen). [/B]Then you get CJ, you hope Lawrence Jackson falls to you in the 2nd round so you get your DE there (the biggest obstacle for Jackson could be the Bengals, but if they get our first round pick then they can get their DE there and Jackson can fall to us), 3rd and 4th rounds you go filling your CB and OL needs

Of course in a more ideal, yet unlikely world you ship a 3rd rounder to Detroit for Roy Williams so 1st round-Talib or Cason, 2nd-Jackson, 3rd-trade for Williams, use the back end of the draft for line help[/QUOTE]

Have you heard anything of the reports that Rocky has a degenerative knee condition? I had heard this on Sirius the other day.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;421561]Have you heard anything of the reports that Rocky has a degenerative knee condition? I had heard this on Sirius the other day.[/quote]

Heard that he DID have one, or that he possibly has one? Everything I've heard is that he'll be ready to start opening day. If not, does that make LB a greater need than DE? If we end up trading him and picks for CJ like some suggest, who do we bring in?

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace;421564]Heard that he DID have one, or that he possibly has one? Everything I've heard is that he'll be ready to start opening day. If not, does that make LB a greater need than DE? If we end up trading him and picks for CJ like some suggest, who do we bring in?[/QUOTE]

It was on one of their "two minute drill" reports and I believe the quote was to the tune of "Word out of Washington is that LB Rocky McIntosh has a degenerative knee condition." I don't know if it was discovered during his rehab or what...

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;421565]It was on one of their "two minute drill" reports and I believe the quote was to the tune of "Word out of Washington is that LB Rocky McIntosh has a degenerative knee condition." I don't know if it was discovered during his rehab or what...[/quote]

Pretty sure it's been known for quite a while, I think possibly even before drafting him.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=WaldSkins;421511]Please tell me your kidding. Dumbest post ever. Yea why dont we throw in Samuels just for a bonus. Why would you want to unload moss?[/quote]
Let me defend my post here...

This is pure speculation, based on nothing more than the track record this team has.

I'm not saying I'd want to unload Moss (although If it meant getting CJ, I would get over it), I'm saying... if Dan Snyder was actually intent on landing Chad Johnson... I think that's the ammo it would take.

Secondly, Chad Johnson would be a a huge upgrade over Moss. Look at their numbers. I'm just stating the obvious here.

Once again, I have no idea what the contract implications would be, or even if this trade would be feasible... I'm just saying that it makes sense if we were actually trying to acquire a play maker like Chad Johnson.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

Giving up Moss kinda defeats the purpose here. He would be a dangerous #2 along with CJ.

Sounds like we could be losing quite a few WRs as it is, Thrash, McCardell, and Caldwell could all be on the outs. Doesn't make much sense to also give up Moss.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

i wouldnt give up moss for CJ ...

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=Mattyk72;421586]Giving up Moss kinda defeats the purpose here. He would be a dangerous #2 along with CJ.

Sounds like we could be losing quite a few WRs as it is, Thrash, McCardell, and Caldwell could all be on the outs. Doesn't make much sense to also give up Moss.[/quote]
I don't think it defeats the purpose, if your purpose is to upgrade your overall offensive efficiency. I'm on the boat that #85 would cause coverage to roll to his side... thus opening up the rest of the field to Cooley and ARE.

There are only so many touches that can go around, and having ARE as a #3 seems like your wasting talent. He's proven he can have those 100yard games if they want to roll coverage. The point you make about depth is definitely one to consider.

Maybe we've got enough young talent coming back next year (Mix, Espy, to name a couple) that we'd be able to plug in the holes, and serve well. Maybe not.

Could be too much of a gamble... but I still think CJ instead of SM would change the offense dramatically. Just my two cents.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

I still don't see the purpose of giving up a good #2. If there's nobody there to pick up the slack for all the doubles that CJ would see it makes CJ a waste. Even though ARE had a good year I'm still not convinced he's #2 caliber. I think he's better suited as a slot guy.

Yes CJ is a upgrade over Moss, but it makes that upgrade less effective if you take away a very capable #2 in Moss.

I know people love to daydream about Mix and Espy but those guys haven't proven anything and Espy is nothing but training camp hero to this point if you ask me.

Mix was great on teams but he's a complete unknown when it comes to playing WR. Personally I wouldn't want to head into the season having to rely on both of these guys to play significant roles. Maybe one of them, but definitely not both.

Plus if we're concerned about developing Campbell, does giving him almost an entirely new WR corps make much sense??

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

This may have been discussed, but I was watching NFL network today and they said Ocho Stinko would not be a good fit for the M&B... with our new west coast offense, we will be expecting our #1 wideout to take a lot of short stuff and run with it, where as CJ is a receiver more suited for an offense that focuses on the deep passing game. CJ would also likely only get around 60 catches per year, as opposed to the 90 he's used to...

I actually think stinko is fun to watch... i love his antics and is is a GREAT (not just good) receiver... but i just don't think he's a good fit for a west coast offense. He would have been great under a Gibbs-style offense though.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=Mattyk72;421596]I still don't see the purpose of giving up a good #2. If there's nobody there to pick up the slack for all the doubles that CJ would see it makes CJ a waste. Even though ARE had a good year I'm still not convinced he's #2 caliber. I think he's better suited as a slot guy.

Yes CJ is a upgrade over Moss, but it makes that upgrade less effective if you take away a very capable #2 in Moss.

I know people love to daydream about Mix and Espy but those guys haven't proven anything and Espy is nothing but training camp hero to this point if you ask me.

Mix was great on teams but he's a complete unknown when it comes to playing WR. Personally I wouldn't want to head into the season having to rely on both of these guys to play significant roles. Maybe one of them, but definitely not both.

Plus if we're concerned about developing Campbell, does giving him almost an entirely new WR corps make much sense??[/quote]
I tend to think Moss isn't the great #1 WR he once was, and we need an upgrade. He gets injured too often, and I don't want to go into the season relying on him as our #1 anymore. If we can get CJ or someone else and not lose Moss... I would prefer that. But if we had to pull the trigger and Moss was involved... I think that makes us the better team.

Yeah it wouldn't be the best thing in the world to have a new set of WR's... but they would have an entire off season to mesh. We're going to need at least one addition anyways.

This hypothetical situation I'm suggesting may not even be remotely plausible, so I'm probably just bantering aimlessly.

I'm just no longer on the Santana bandwagon and I wish I was. I love the guy, and I have many memories watching him torch defenses. He just needs to be healthy and consistent for once, and I'm not confident that'll happen next season.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

moss is also an emotional leader on this team ...
..

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

According to Elliot in the Morning: chad johnson flying in fri for possible contract deal

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=ingibbswetrust;421610]According to Elliot in the Morning: chad johnson flying in fri for possible contract deal[/quote]


really, do you have a link?

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

wow.....

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

how can that be possible? hes not a free agent and still is under contract with the bengals.. have we made a trade thats not being posted or talked about?

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

knowing us prolly....

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

Enough with the bullshit about Chad Johnson. If we get him fine if not who cares. If he does come here he needs to keep his ego with the Bungles and just play ball. Also leave those crusty ass gold teeth at home!

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

this was just on the radio, doesnt seem to make much sense to me but who knows with Snyder.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=Darrell_Green_28;421616]how can that be possible? hes not a free agent and still is under contract with the bengals.. have we made a trade thats not being posted or talked about?[/QUOTE]

Sometimes a team and a prospective player will agree to a contract in principle in order to facillitate a trade. Could be one of those situations...

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;421633]Sometimes a team and a prospective player will agree to a contract in principle in order to facillitate a trade. Could be one of those situations...[/quote]

Right, we had a contract in place for Briggs too before a trade fell through.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

this year he's un-restricted tho so.... no worries he is ours.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=Meks;421643]this year he's un-restricted tho so.... no worries he is ours.[/quote]

Briggs you mean?

Yeah, I think it's a lock he'll be here.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=Mattyk72;421645]Briggs you mean?

Yeah, I think it's a lock he'll be here.[/quote]


Yeah Briggs I have a feeling will be wearing the B&G next season.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;421645]Briggs you mean?

Yeah, I think it's a lock he'll be here.[/QUOTE]

I thought so too until I heard that the Dolphins may be interested in him and have $40M in cap space. I don't know if that report (I believe it was on ESPN) was based on speculation, rumor, or inside information. But, if true, it will be hard for us to compete with the Fins. Usually, Danny gets what he or his coaches want, but other teams flush with cap space can front load contracts to take advantage of the cap space, make the contract more palatable to free agents, and to deny teams like the Redskins the ability to match such offers.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;421664]I thought so too until I heard that the Dolphins may be interested in him and have $40M in cap space. I don't know if that report (I believe it was on ESPN) was based on speculation, rumor, or inside information. But, if true, it will be hard for us to compete with the Fins. Usually, Danny gets what he or his coaches want, but other teams flush with cap space can front load contracts to take advantage of the cap space, make the contract more palatable to free agents, and to deny teams like the Redskins the ability to match such offers.[/quote]
Blache was the DC in Chicago for Briggs' rookie season. Hopefully they have a good relationship and that may trump a bigger payday from Miami.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;421690]Blanche was the DC in Chicago for Briggs' rookie season. Hopefully they have a good relationship and that may trump a bigger payday from Miami.[/quote]

True good point. Plus the Dolphins are coming off a 1-15 season and are definitely in rebuilding mode. That takes away some of the appeal especially if the money is close.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

[quote=Mattyk72;421645]Briggs you mean?

Yeah, I think it's a lock he'll be here.[/quote]

Why do you think it's a lock?? Are we just going to forget about Rocky and Blades? At this point Briggs is just looking for a huge payday and I'm sure there are teams out there that have a lot more $ than we do.

I'm being funny here but why does everyone around here have a hard on for Lance Briggs? I just don't see what all the hoopla is all about. He's a nice player but I certainly would not break the bank for Briggs.

Re: Ocho Cinco In B&G
 

Rocky had bad knees even before this latest injury. I'm not sure he can ever be counted on.

Blades might be a nice find but Briggs is easily the better player right now.

Briggs and the Skins had a deal in place before the trade fell through. I'm sure there is still interest from both sides. Briggs wants out, Chicago has indicated they aren't interested in bringing him back, do the math.