Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=redskinsgirl;465194]It still doesn't change the fact that the Skins have been inconsistent. JC hasn't been the only player over the last two seasons that hasn't been consistent. I felt last year the Skins (not GB) should have been competing with the Boyz for the top spot in the NFC. The reason the Skins lost seven games wasn't solely due to JC, but the Skins being inconsistent. The Skins should have won 5 out of the 7 games they lost last year. The GB, Philly, and NY games, JC was on his JOB and they still lost. The Philly game JC had three TDs(zero int) without a starting receiver.(Yes he threw an int in GB game, but Favre threw 2 and had 0 TDs.) I will even say for most the the Dallas game JC was on his JOB. I don't understand why some of you are ready to throw JC under the bus. If we going to the JC under the bus, then we need to start throwing some of his teammates with him.[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana].. you are right that the team as a whole has been up and down, but the QB sets the tone. Last year had many issues, including injuries and Sean Taylor's death. But it is the QB's job to lead and be consistent. JC has a poor RED ZONE history. Our hope is that Zorn will fix that problem this year. Zorn's interview yesterday about the game explains JC's problems perfectly, and I'm happy we have a coach that recognizes his issues and wants to help him improve.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=hesscl34;465191]I don't think anyone has said we should trade Campbell. I just think a lot of us see this year as his do or die year. It's time to prove his worth.[/quote]

Actually somone did suggest, maybe sarcastically, that we should dump JC or trade if he can't come through. I think he'll be fine.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=12thMan;465199]Actually somone did suggest, maybe sarcastically, that we should dump JC or trade if he can't come through. I think he'll be fine.[/quote]

I hope you are right or my TV won't last until mid-season. My beer mug will make it's way right through the screen....

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=12thMan;465199]Actually somone did suggest, maybe sarcastically, that we should dump JC or trade if he can't come through. I think he'll be fine.[/quote]
I'm hoping that JC has a good year and shows he has what it takes to lead this team. If he cannot show that this yaer I feel the team has to look for a QB that can. I'm not saying he has to lead us to the SB but he has to show that he will be able to lead us there.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=firstdown;465203]I'm hoping that JC has a good year and shows he has what it takes to lead this team. If he cannot show that this yaer I feel the team has to look for a QB that can. I'm not saying he has to lead us to the SB but he has to show that he will be able to lead us there.[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Some guy on extskins was talking about how at the end of the game his buddy bet him that Colt wouldn't make a TD before the end of the game, so he immediately bet him a $100 that Colt would make that TD. At the end of it, he collected $300 from people that bet against Colt. He then goes on to say he never would have made that bet if JC was in, and he’s a JC supporter. Why is that? ... makes you think.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=firstdown;465203]I'm hoping that JC has a good year and shows he has what it takes to lead this team. If he cannot show that this yaer I feel the team has to look for a QB that can. I'm not saying he has to lead us to the SB but he has to show that he will be able to lead us there.[/quote]

I agree with all of you guys about JC. He simply has to take his game to the next level. I think if this team stays healthy, there's no reason we can't make it to the playoffs again this year. And do well.

But as I pointed out on the list of mediocre QB's from JC's class, the only one who is flat out above the rest of the crew is Cleveland's Derek Anderson. And one could argue that's because he's been in the same system with the same head coach throughout his career. There's something to be said about that. I mean, look at how Alex Smith has handled the ups and downs of a changing cast and system. He's looking more and more like a bust with each season, and might not even start this year. And Aaron Rodgers aint lighting up in Green Bay either. What a disaster that could turn out to be if he flops this year.

At least give Jason Campbell credit for adjusting to the constant changing winds at Redskin's Park.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=hesscl34;465205][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Some guy on extskins was talking about how at the end of the game his buddy bet him that Colt wouldn't make a TD before the end of the game, so he immediately bet him a $100 that Colt would make that TD. At the end of it, he collected $300 from people that bet against Colt. He then goes on to say he never would have made that bet if JC was in, and he’s a JC supporter. Why is that? ... makes you think.[/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]
Well if he does not have any confidence in JC as our starter then why is he a supporter of him? If I didn't think JC had what it takes I would not then claim to be a supporter of his and I would want him on the bench.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=firstdown;465209]Well if he does not have any confidence in JC as our starter then why is he a supporter of him? If I didn't think JC had what it takes I would not then claim to be a supporter of his and I would want him on the bench.[/quote]


Puh-lease, fans can be so fickle. I love all this talk about Colt being the next coming of Joe Montana. Or so it seems. Look the kid can throw the football. There's no denying that. And if he continues to grow and JC stagnates, then maybe in a year or two, he could have a shot at challenging for the starting job.

But so far Colt has been impressive under less than impressive circumstances.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=12thMan;465208]I agree with all of you guys about JC. He simply has to take his game to the next level. I think if this team stays healthy, there's no reason we can't make it to the playoffs again this year. And do well.

But as I pointed out on the list of mediocre QB's from JC's class, the only one who is flat out above the rest of the crew is Cleveland's Derek Anderson. And one could argue that's because he's been in the same system with the same head coach throughout his career. There's something to be said about that. I mean, look at how Alex Smith has handled the ups and downs of a changing cast and system. He's looking more and more like a bust with each season, and might not even start this year. And Aaron Rodgers aint lighting up in Green Bay either. What a disaster that could turn out to be if he flops this year.

At least give Jason Campbell credit for adjusting to the constant changing winds at Redskin's Park.[/quote]
Well I believe in the past you have also said that JC has to get the experience playing which I agree. With that in mind how can you throw Aaron Rodgers name out there when he has not even started in an NFL game and was stuck behind you know who?

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=firstdown;465212]Well I believe in the past you have also said that JC has to get the experience playing which I agree. With that in mind how can you throw Aaron Rodgers name out there when he has not even started in an NFL game and was stuck behind you know who?[/quote]

Yeah, I'll give Rodgers the benefit of the doubt. He's essentially still a rookie, but no one will treat him like it that's for sure. But he's already been sacked six times this preseason.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;465211]Puh-lease, fans can be so fickle. I love all this talk about Colt being the next coming of Joe Montana. Or so it seems. Look the kid can throw the football. There's no denying that. And if he continues to grow and JC stagnates, then maybe in a year or two, he could have a shot at challenging for the starting job.

But so far Colt has been impressive under less than impressive circumstances.[/QUOTE]

JC continues to make the same mistakes he has made throughout his time with the Skins. I hope he makes improvement but I just dont see him getting much better. As I have said in the past this is a make or break year for JC and if he doesnt show some real improvement Zorn will move on.

I really think that Colt is the QB Zorn is focusing on trying to get to the next level. I'm not saying he's not coaching up JC but I really think that Zorn sees Colt as the starter in a year or two unless JC makes some significant strides this season.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

One bad game, check that one bad quarter and all of a sudden the JC doubters are out in full force. This is almost comical. Kinda reminds me of Suisham missing his first kick in the HOF game and people wanted his head. And for the Colt lovers I'm sorry but the guy is not ready to face first string talent in a regular season game, he would get eaten alive. His mechanics stink, he's not disciplined in the pocket, and he makes some very risky throws... he needs alot of work.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

At the moment, I think Colt may be the second coming of ....Babe Laufenberg.

Babe was the best 3rd string qb we ever had. Aginst ofther 3rd stringers, he was amazing.

We have only seen colt against the JV, and he has performed admirably.

As for JC, I am currently in a 'wait and see' mode. Pre-season really doesn't count.

However, I purely go by numbers. If his QB rating doesn't start rising significantly (say to 85-95 for the year), his future at this franchise will be in doubt.

J-Dawg

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;465220]One bad game, check that one bad quarter and all of a sudden the JC doubters are out in full force. This is almost comical. Kinda reminds me of Suisham missing his first kick in the HOF game and people wanted his head. And for the Colt lovers I'm sorry but the guy is not ready to face first string talent in a regular season game, he would get eaten alive. His mechanics stink, he's not disciplined in the pocket, and he makes some very risky throws... he needs alot of work.[/QUOTE]

I agree that there is no way CB is ready for prime time but IMO he sees the field better than JC and makes decisions much much quicker. His mechanics are not the best but then again neither are JC's or Brett Favre's. What bugs me most is that this is JCs 4th or 5th year and he is still making the same mistakes (slow decisions, indecision, bad reads, forced balls) he's always made. I know he lacks some experience but its not like he's been standing around Redskins park doing nothing since he got here. I would have though JC would have been much further along than he is. Barring a major injury he is the starter all season but like I said, unless he really shows Zorn some improvement Zorn will begin phasing him out.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;465220]One bad game, check that one bad quarter and all of a sudden the JC doubters are out in full force.[/QUOTE]

Yup. I want to vomit when I read "JC... but Colt............"

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

I can't believe people are already complaining about JC after a couple of bad drives in a pre-season football game. This is so absurd it's not even funny or not even worth talking about.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;465234]I can't believe people are already complaining about JC after a couple of bad drives in a pre-season football game. This is so absurd it's not even funny or not even worth talking about.[/QUOTE]

Apparently, 12 of 15 for 130 yards and 1 TD and no turnovers is NOT cause for optimism whereas 4/10 for 40 yards is cause for pesimism.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=skinsfan69;465234]I can't believe people are already complaining about JC after a couple of bad drives in a pre-season football game. This is so absurd it's not even funny or not even worth talking about.[/quote]

It's not about this one game, it's about the games prior when he did the same things. You want to see those things corrected, not continuing as he progresses.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=hesscl34;465205][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]. He then goes on to say he never would have made that bet if JC was in, and he’s a JC supporter. Why is that? ... makes you think.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Wow, there's a lot of gippity-goop being talked about with JC vs. Colt. Bottomline is this:

* JC is clearly the starter and better QB at this point. He's got a ton of talent.

* JC is not a good "cruch time" QB - based on his chokes last year. He doesn't appear to "have it" like the great QB's do. Maybe this will change, but he needs to prove that he can fire that winning TD into coverage with seconds counting down (not INT's which is his normal preference).

* Colt is fun to talk about, but he hasn't done poopity-sqat against anything that resembles 1st team defenses.

* Everyone of Colt's TD's could easily have been INT's (tight coverage), so either he's a freakishly amazing QB or he's freakishly lucky.

* If all plays out well, JC will be our QB for the next 1-2 years. If he turns out to be good, we give him lots of $$ and have our long-term QB. If not, he's done-cakes and hopefully Colt has 2 years of experience and is ready to take it from there.

* It will be a long, depressing season if JC stinks up the place. Especially with all of the talent around him. That said, we have to give him at least until mid-season before we jump down his throat (Zorn too).

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=Mattyk72;465220]One bad game, check that one bad quarter and all of a sudden the JC doubters are out in full force. This is almost comical. Kinda reminds me of Suisham missing his first kick in the HOF game and people wanted his head. And for the Colt lovers I'm sorry but the guy is not ready to face first string talent in a regular season game, he would get eaten alive. His mechanics stink, he's not disciplined in the pocket, and he makes some very risky throws... he needs alot of work.[/quote]

Again, it's not about ONE bad game Matty. It's about wanting to see change.. and what we saw on Saturday was not good. The hope is that he'll put that kind of play behind him and get better and not regress.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=hesscl34;465239]Again, it's not about ONE bad game Matty. It's about wanting to see change.. and what we saw on Saturday was not good. The hope is that he'll put that kind of play behind him and get better and not regress.[/quote]
You seem to use this game to jump on JC but you seem to forget the other two presaeson games where he has look very good. Then people praise Colt for playing good against scrubs but forget about last week when he came in earlier in the game and did nothing against maybe 2nd stringers.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=hesscl34;465239]Again, it's not about ONE bad game Matty. It's about wanting to see change.. and what we saw on Saturday was not good. The hope is that he'll put that kind of play behind him and get better and not regress.[/quote]

Fine. What is your opinion of his first two games this year then?

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=firstdown;465243]You seem to use this game to jump on JC but you seem to forget the other two presaeson games where he has look very good. Then people praise Colt for playing good against scrubs but forget about last week when he came in earlier in the game and did nothing against maybe 2nd stringers.[/quote]

I'm the only one jumping on JC?... I didn't start the JC "bashing" this time.. Go back and read the thread. I've been very positive about JC for the last two games, but when you see a guy slowly get better only to regress in the red zone, it's not a good sign.

I have nothing to say about Colt other than to thank him for helping us win games.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=Mattyk72;465244]Fine. What is your opinion of his first two games this year then?[/quote]

You have access to my threads - so check it. You won't find anything negative, but rather hope that he'll improve.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

This concept espoused by Irish and hess that JC hasn't changed and is making the same mistakes as he did in past years just doesn't hold water with me. One, it's preseason so it's difficult to tell anything about his in-game decision making. Two, my observations are that, other than on Sunday when he faced a 3-4 defense for the FIRST TIME SINCE LAST SEASON, his decision making has been pretty sharp. Three, every commentator who has expressed an opinion has stated that JC seems to be making a smooth transition to JZ's system and JZ has complimented him on his improvements.

How will he perform in the 4th quarter of a close in season game? Guess we'll just have to wait and find out.

As for Colt, JZ's comment when asked how Colt was doing was "I told him he makes some throws [holding his hands about 6" apart] very well, but that to succeed in this league, you have to make all these throws well [holding his hands about 20" apart]." Clearly, Zorn thinks Brennan does some things well but that, outside his comfort zone, Brennan has some real issues. Can Brennan learn to do all the throws? Probably, in about two or three years. He has had so much success without needing to challenge himself, it is questionable as to whether or not he can go beyond what has brought him success in the past. Lots of excellent college players (not just QB's) have had this same issue (See Billy McMullen).

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;465249]This concept espoused by Irish and hess that JC hasn't changed and is making the same mistakes as he did in past years just doesn't hold water with me. One, it's preseason so it's difficult to tell anything about his in-game decision making. Two, my observations are that, other than on Sunday when he faced a 3-4 defense for the FIRST TIME SINCE LAST SEASON, his decision making has been pretty sharp. Three, every commentator who has expressed an opinion has stated that JC seems to be making a smooth transition to JZ's system and JZ has complimented him on his improvements.

How will he perform in the 4th quarter of a close in season game? Guess we'll just have to wait and find out.

As for Colt, JZ's comment when asked how Colt was doing was "I told him he makes some throws [holding his hands about 6" apart] very well, but that to succeed in this league, you have to make all these throws well [holding his hands about 20" apart]." Clearly, Zorn thinks Brennan does some things well but that, outside his comfort zone, Brennan has some real issues. Can Brennan learn to do all the throws? Probably, in about two or three years. He has had so much success without needing to challenge himself, it is questionable as to whether or not he can go beyond what has brought him success in the past. Lots of excellent college players (not just QB's) have had this same issue (See Billy McMullen).[/quote]

Bottom line, by JC's Warpath critics, the only true measure of improvement if he has no imcomplete passes.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=hesscl34;465248]You have access to my threads - so check it. You won't find anything negative, but rather hope that he'll improve.[/quote]

So no praise... just this "hope" that he'll improve, which he did. Seems kinda lame to jump on him over his first bad outing yet no praise for him looking sharp in the other two games.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=Mattyk72;465255]So no praise... just this "hope" that he'll improve, which he did. Seems kinda lame to jump on him over his first bad outing yet no praise for him looking sharp in the other two games.[/quote]

Dude, I can hear it now. JC will come out and go 7-7 in his next outing. The pundits will then say, well the receivers were running good routes and JC had lot's of time to throw the ball. Let's see what he does against a real defense.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;465255]So no praise... just this "hope" that he'll improve, which he did. Seems kinda lame to jump on him over his first bad outing yet no praise for him looking sharp in the other two games.[/QUOTE]

I thought he played his 1st 2 games the way he should be playing all his games (especially the preseason ones) and would expect him to look even better in his sharp games. IMO thinking JC looked super in his first 2 games again tells me he just hasnt progressed as far as I think he should have.

Hopefully I'm wrong but my bet is in 2010 JC isnt the Skins starting QB.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=hesscl34;465247]I'm the only one jumping on JC?... I didn't start the JC "bashing" this time.. Go back and read the thread. I've been very positive about JC for the last two games, but when you see a guy slowly get better only to regress in the red zone, it's not a good sign.

I have nothing to say about Colt other than to thank him for helping us win games.[/quote]
So what your saying is that he has looked good but because one time he does not get the ball into the endzone he is regressing. Ok.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=irish;465258]I thought he played his 1st 2 games the way he should be playing all his games (especially the preseason ones) and would expect him to look even better in his sharp games. IMO thinking JC looked super in his first 2 games again tells me he just hasnt progressed as far as I think he should have.

Hopefully I'm wrong but my bet is in 2010 JC isnt the Skins starting QB.[/quote]

Damn, you're projecting JC won't be starting in 2010? Are you kidding me? No seriously, are you kidding?

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;465261]Damn, you're projecting JC won't be starting in 2010? Are you kidding me? No seriously, are you kidding?[/QUOTE]

No I'm not kidding.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=irish;465258]I[B] thought he played his 1st 2 games the way he should be playing all his games [/B](especially the preseason ones) and would expect him to look even better in his sharp games. IMO thinking JC looked super in his first 2 games again tells me he just hasnt progressed as far as I think he should have.[/QUOTE]

And that post pretty much sums up your standard. In his first two games JC completed 12 of 15 passes (80%) for 130+ yards, 1 TD, no INTs, and no fumbles for a near perfect rating. If those are the kind of stats that you are expecting, expect to be disappointed for a long time because there are about 2 QBs in the league who can hope to post those kind of numbers on a regular basis. Are you serious that those are the kind of stats that we should demand?

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;465266]And that post pretty much sums up your standard. In his first two games JC completed 12 of 15 passes (80%) for 130+ yards, 1 TD, no INTs, and no fumbles for a near perfect rating. If those are the kind of stats that you are expecting, expect to be disappointed for a long time because there are about 2 QBs in the league who can hope to post those kind of numbers on a regular basis. Are you serious that those are the kind of stats that we should demand?[/QUOTE]

For the preseason, yes.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=12thMan;465253]Bottom line, by JC's Warpath critics, the only true measure of improvement if he has no imcomplete passes.[/quote]

WRONG. Bottom line, if he keeps blowing it up in the Red Zone and not finishing games then he doesn't deserve all the love some of you give him.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=irish;465268]For the preseason, yes.[/QUOTE]

Okay, so you misspoke. You said that "he played his 1st 2 games the way he should be playing all his games (especially the preseason ones)." I suppose you meant "he played his 1st 2 games the way he should be playing in the preseason."

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=hesscl34;465269]WRONG. Bottom line, if he keeps blowing it up in the Red Zone and not finishing games then he doesn't deserve all the love some of you give him.[/QUOTE]

I don't think a lot of us are giving him a ton of love. We're arguing that he should be given time (i.e., more than 1 season's worth of game experience) to develop.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=irish;465264]No I'm not kidding.[/quote]


Well, if that's the case you're really assuming a lot of things are going to take place at the same time.

First, you're assuming that JC will at least have a worse season than he his previous one. Because even if he does exactly the same and no better, chances are he'll be the starter again in 2010.

So let's assume he regresses some statistically this year. Then we're assuming, Colt Brennan, whom we've seen all of two pre-season halves this year, will some how kick it up several notches and seriously challenge Jason Campbell for the starting gig in 2010.

All of that is one hell of a long shot. Could it happen? Sure, anything can in the NFL. But when I look around the league these days, you have a few teams trying to get their hands on a 38 year old quarterback named Brett Favre. Chad Pennington, who has been middle of the road most of his career, is instantly starting in Miami. The picture is still far from clear in places like San Francisco, Chicago, and Tamp Bay, where Garcia has yet to hit the field. Philly is always a touch and go situation, Atlanta will start will probably start a rookie, and the list goes on and on.

Point being, good quarterbacks aren't in abundance these days, and when you have a guy like Jason Campbell, who many feel is on the cusp of being one of the better young QBs in the league, you're not going to nit pick and look for reasons to bench him. Unless he completely falls apart and at the same time Brennan puts in some serious work and put's up some eye opening numbers, it just won't happen.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=irish;465258]I thought he played his 1st 2 games the way he should be playing all his games (especially the preseason ones) and would expect him to look even better in his sharp games. IMO thinking JC looked super in his first 2 games again tells me he just hasnt progressed as far as I think he should have.

Hopefully I'm wrong but my bet is in 2010 JC isnt the Skins starting QB.[/quote]

I'd take that bet, especially if you think it's going to be Colt as the starter.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=Mattyk72;465255]So no praise... just this "hope" that he'll improve, which he did. Seems kinda lame to jump on him over his first bad outing yet no praise for him looking sharp in the other two games.[/quote]

You didn't check my threads.. I did praise him for looking sharp in his last two games.