Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Mattyk72;470583][I]Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno.” [/I]


– [URL="http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html"]Sen. John McCain[/URL], speaking to a Republican dinner, June 1998.[/quote]

OK, I've made up my mind. He gets my vote because that's effing hilarious!

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

this is the same McCain that's saying kids are off limits? what a joke. and schneed, im with you. i want to know policies, and where these men stand. but i also point out when the going gets tough, all rules go out the window. especially if the race stays close. and thanks for the link, matty

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=FRPLG;470580]It's actually a more true conservative bent. Gov't = stay out of our lives...no taxes and don't tell me how tolive. I think we roll closely also. I vote mainly on who has the best cahnce not to do something insanely bad. Like raise taxes on anyone.[/quote]

I guess it's not an uncommon set of views after all!

My buddy used to say he liked to pick his presidential candidate, and then if that candidate was republican he'd vote for democrats when it came to the house and senate. And vice versa if he liked the democratic president.

His reasoning was that gridlock was the best thing possible for our government, because then nobody can do anything stupid.

Not a bad theory!

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=dmek25;470590]this is the same McCain that's saying kids are off limits? what a joke. and schneed, im with you. i want to know policies, and where these men stand. but i also point out when the going gets tough, all rules go out the window. especially if the race stays close. and thanks for the link, matty[/quote]

Except that isn't Obama the one saying family and stuff is off limits?

I don't think his campaign intends to attack Palin's daughter. Nobody cares if we do it on a message board somewhere, so go nuts. But it's different if a campaign actually goes there.

Obama doesn't want to go there, which is admirable. I wouldn't either, if I were him. More importantly though, I think Obama would hurt himself politically if he did, no question. Even if the race stays close, I don't see Obama and his campaign going there.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Schneed10;470591]I guess it's not an uncommon set of views after all!

My buddy used to say he liked to pick his presidential candidate, and then if that candidate was republican he'd vote for democrats when it came to the house and senate. And vice versa if he liked the democratic president.

His reasoning was that gridlock was the best thing possible for our government, because then nobody can do anything stupid.

Not a bad theory![/quote]

My theory is that all this comprmising is bad. Usually on an issue one side has the right basic premise and one side has the wrong one. When we combine those two the solution evolves to lowest common denominator and it sucks.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;470259]I guess that Obama's pick was one of politics and just more of the same as we have gotten from Biden and his spending for years. It seems that the dems are scared of McCains pick and the lack of Obamas movment in the polls behind thier convention. Even Kerry had a 7% jump in the polls after his convention and [B]Obama's didn't move at all.[/B] We still hear his call for change but see the same old Biden as his VP.[/quote]
fox news reporting Obama at 50% for the first time. and if Obama had picked some no one, everyone would be screaming about the lack of experience. and i think we all would agree that Joe Biden is a tad bit more qualified to run the country, then Mrs Palin

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=FRPLG;470593]My theory is that all this comprmising is bad. Usually on an issue one side has the right basic premise and one side has the wrong one. When we combine those two the solution evolves to lowest common denominator and it sucks.[/quote]

So basically we need you, me, Dirtbag and SS to all get elected to congress, find someone else who thinks just like us to be president, and steamroll our policies into effect.

Can we put in an earmark for us each to have season tickets to the Skins?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;470562]Holy crap, so she wasn't married. I always thought that teaching abstinence alone was bull shit. I'll be the first to admit that I have some weird political views. I agree with the conseratives on defense and the economy. However on the social issues I'm definately more liberal including marajuanna legalization (even though I don't smoke), stem cell research (an issue that McCain supports), gay marriage (even though I'm not gay), and the banning of ID from class rooms. I still don't know what to think about abortion though right now I'm barely pro-life (51-49). However at the same time I am appaled about how conseratives want to restrict distribution of the morning after pill.

I mean a fetus reportedly feeling pain and crying during an abortion is apalling however preventing conception the day after (or minutes after if you're prepared) is a totally different story and just because some religous nutjobs are using the Bible to reconcile their beliefs doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer in a country who's social views presumeably range mainly from moderate Judeo-Christian to secular humanist (a nicer way of saying atheist or agnostic). In fact I get chills everytime I see the John McCain, Judeo-Christian speech. I wondered if he's that desperate votes or if he's really that nieve when it comes to the history of his own country.

Another funny thing I find about the Republicans and McCain is they want to stop Gay Marriage, yet their most feasable alternative to abortion, adoption, isn't helped by the fact that many foster kids (as many as 100,000 in the US) can't find a home.

Anyway back to my main point. If I read right according to a UN report the United States has some of the highest rates of teen pregnacy and abortions among first world countries especially when compared to most of Western Europe. The abstinence thing is not working and restricting access to contreception and proper sex education isn't helping.

I know some people will find issue with my post and I'm more then willing to debate so long as it doesn't lead to you calling me an idiot for no good reason or typing in all caps. And to think I use to be apathetic :( those were the days.[/quote]


i think that's pretty common for views, at least in NoVA... it's closest party affiliation would be libertarian. We're pretty close on view too, so, uh... me four.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;470568]That is a down right lie about McCain and you cannot find any quotes from McCain saying that about Chelsea.[/quote]

Ok, I have to admitt that Saden was correct and McCain did make a tastless but funny joke about Chelsea.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=dmek25;470599]fox news reporting Obama at 50% for the first time. and if Obama had picked some no one, everyone would be screaming about the lack of experience. and i think we all would agree that Joe Biden is a tad bit more qualified to run the country, then Mrs Palin[/quote]
Yea but while Biden is expanding goverment Palin has been cutting the size of goverment.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Schneed10;470600]So basically we need you, me, Dirtbag and SS to all get elected to congress, find someone else who thinks just like us to be president, and steamroll our policies into effect.

Can we put in an earmark for us each to have season tickets to the Skins?[/quote]
OK, I'll do it. I'm sure we can hook the Danny up with something and get a Suite at the 40-50 yardline. The only gotcha is I must approve all WH intern hirings. I envision the WH under our watch to be similar to the Stark Enterprises plane on the way to Afghanistan. :spank:

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Schneed10;470600]So basically we need you, me, Dirtbag and SS to all get elected to congress, [B]find someone else who thinks just like us to be president[/B], and steamroll our policies into effect.

Can we put in an earmark for us each to have season tickets to the Skins?[/quote]

If I must, I must. I am pretty much in the same political boat as the rest of you. Just don't tell my family.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;470609]Yea but while Biden is expanding goverment Palin has been cutting the size of goverment.[/quote]

She sure hasn't been shy about securing earmarks for Alaska...something that McCain continuously rails against. [url]http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/washington/AP-CVN-Palin-Earmarks.html?_r=1&oref=slogin[/url]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=djnemo65;470634]She sure hasn't been shy about securing earmarks for Alaska...something that McCain continuously rails against. [URL]http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/washington/AP-CVN-Palin-Earmarks.html?_r=1&oref=slogin[/URL][/quote]
Well that article was pretty vegue about weather Palin was pushing the earmarks (pork) or if it was from other in Alaska. They did mention one small one at the end of the article and this is also the NY Times.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;470641]Well that article was pretty vegue about weather Palin was pushing the earmarks (pork) or if it was from other in Alaska. They did mention one small one at the end of the article and this is also the NY Times.[/quote]

It's an AP article actually but that's not important. I don't have a problem with a governor securing stuff for her state - that's what good governor's do. I just think you are naive to suggest she is some sort of crusading budgetary reformer. Here is another article talking about her extensive lobbying for earmarks when mayor of Wasilla Alaska...then again, this article is [I]actually[/I] from the New York times, and we know that they hate America. [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/01/us/politics/01bridge.html?scp=1&sq=palin%20earmarks&st=cse[/url]

Edit: this is actually the article I was thinking of, from the WP [url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/01/AR2008090103148.html]washingtonpost.com[/url]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

djnemo65, don't you have any National Review or The Weekly Standard links?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Schneed10;470567]Just a side note, it's almost uncanny how aligned you and I are on the issues. I'm very to the right on foreign policy and the economy, and quite left on most social issues, with the exception of abortion. Didn't think I'd find too many people that line up so crooked like I do.[/quote]

Words can't expressed how happy I am to find that theres a group of people like me. I mean like I said before I love a lot of Democrats non-financial social policies, but the tax rates and the potential effect on a struggling economy as well as our private health care sector, in which case I'll be screwed if it takes me 6 months to see a neurologist, is to much for me to take a chance on.

(Also should have figured that Schneed would at the very least be an economic right given the work he does with the cap on this site as well as the fact that he calculates millions of dollars every year :D)

I honestly think that if the Republicans weren't such hard asses on minor things like gay marriage then it would be easier for people to vote for them, but instead they seem to choose not offending the extreme christian right (not attacking Christians but you're extremist cousins are not a group that I'm very fond of).

The War also didn't help their cause but I can't bring myself to disown a war that will at least give Iraq a chance to look like South Korea and Japan one day. I'll admit there seems to have been some help on the war on terror front but nearly enough to fend off the anti-war protestors. Anyway I don't know how much you guys agree with me on the war but Christopher Hitchens pretty much sums up my views on foreign policy in this video clip.

[yt]cAhwgQ2HoF0[/yt]

Either way I'm happy that we have now unoffically formed the conserative Bent Party aka the Crooked Party aka the Libertarians.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=SmootSmack;470570]What do you mean exactly by McCain wants to stop Gay Marriage?[/quote]

I appologize, I actually think I went so far as to create a straw man argument (for those that don't know [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man"]Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]) which is ironic considering that I'm a McCain supporter. For those of you watching McCain does not support a ban on gay marraige, rather he would like to leave it up to the states. As he plans to be the case should Roe vs Wade be overturned. In fact heres McCains views on gay marriage

Ban on same-sex marriage is unRepublican; leave it to states. (Nov 2006)
Voted NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)

On the flip side McCain has said that he does not support Gay Marriage (he does support private ceremonies and legal agreements that help with areas such as insurance)([ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7addd1-SY8"]YouTube - Ellen Degeneres Vs. John McCain: Gay Marriage[/ame]) but he's not going to go so far as to ban it federally. In other words when votes come up to ban it he votes against it. Likewise if votes come up to make it legal at the federal level he votes against it. Basically he wants the states to decide which for a Republican might be a wise political move though I obviously disaprove.

I also advise that anyone looking for a rundown of canidates views on multiple issues to google the canidates name along with "ontheissues.org". Now you could go to the actual site but I find it a pain in the ass to navigate as they don't have a readily useable search feature. Anyway heres McCains rundown.

[URL="http://www.ontheissues.org/john_mccain.htm"]John McCain on the Issues[/URL]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

OntheIssues.Org is a really good resource, I check it frequently. Anyhow, I just wanted it to be clear that McCain isn't looking to stop gay marriages in that some would take that to mean he's for a constitutional amendment to ban them.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=SmootSmack;470687]OntheIssues.Org is a really good resource, I check it frequently. Anyhow, I just wanted it to be clear that McCain isn't looking to stop gay marriages in that some would take that to mean he's for a constitutional amendment to ban them.[/quote]

Lol, hopefully now people will see that I was wrong and not hold it against McCain. Anyway now that I got my political fix, back to football.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Schneed10;470567]Just a side note, it's almost uncanny how aligned you and I are on the issues. I'm very to the right on foreign policy and the economy, and quite left on most social issues, with the exception of abortion. Didn't think I'd find too many people that line up so crooked like I do.[/quote]

I'm a card carrying member of that group.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=12thMan;470109]Okay, I can dig that. But that definition is a little too abstract for me. What about those who don't or can't serve in the military. How are they to prove their love or defend our country? Surely that would leave out hundreds of millions of Americans, wouldn't it? Another thing, since you cite the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, The Bill of Rights, how does the institution of slavery factor into this and more recently, the Jim Crow era, as it relates to our founding fathers and their ideals of sacracfice and service?

I'm not trying to stir the pot, just trying to see exactly when did America start loving and defending other Americans - all Americans.[/quote]

I believe that patriotism is a feeling that should be conveyed in words, or, at the very least, is not a feeling we should try to hide. I think people should recognize the great many things this country has to offer and be proud of them. Unfortunately, I agree with some of the sentiments expressed earlier in this thread regarding the left. Many on the left will snicker, jeer and sneer at open expressions of love for one's country. In many circles it is definitely lame to fly a flag outside your home. To me, that is constitutes sheer "brattiness" and a failure to appreciate just how good we Americans have things.

However, I also believe patriotism is expressed through action. Failing to recognize flaws, or recognizing and ignoring them, is unpatriotic. Sacrificing liberty for safety is both selfish and unpatriotic. And, oftentimes, those on the right fail to recognize and correct the flaws in our past and present and tend to sacrifice liberty for safety.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;470717]I believe that patriotism is a feeling that should be conveyed in words, or, at the very least, is not a feeling we should try to hide. I think people should recognize the great many things this country has to offer and be proud of them. Unfortunately, I agree with some of the sentiments expressed earlier in this thread regarding the left. Many on the left will snicker, jeer and sneer at open expressions of love for one's country. In many circles it is definitely lame to fly a flag outside your home. To me, that is sad and sheer "brattiness" and a failure to appreciate just how good we Americans have things.

However, I also believe patriotism is expressed through action. Failing to recognize flaws, or recognizing and ignoring them, is unpatriotic. Sacrificing liberty for safety is both selfish and unpatriotic. And, oftentimes, those on the right fail to recognize the flaws in our past and present and tend to sacrifice liberty for safety.[/quote]


Hmmm....so you believe patriotism is both a feeling and action. I like this.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

I gotta say one more thing, while it's on my mind. Just because it's on my mind.

I certainly respect every opinion here on the board, but boy did it bug the hell out of me that at the GOP convention tonight, their theme is "Country First." The sub-text being, if you're not with us, you're not putting country first. Or this is the party that has a corner on patriotism. In 2008 because I'm pro-choice, you're telling me I don't want country first? Or because we differ on taxes and government, I'm putting country first?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=12thMan;470719]I gotta say one more thing, while it's on my mind. Just because it's on my mind.

I certainly respect every opinion here on the board, but boy did it bug the hell out of me that at the GOP convention tonight, their theme is "Country First." The sub-text being, if you're not with us, you're not putting country first. Or this is the party that has a corner on patriotism. In 2008 because I'm pro-choice, you're telling me I don't want country first? Or because we differ on taxes and government, I'm putting country first?[/quote]

Obviously it's political rhetoric and I think you are looking to deep in it. They just want a catch phrase like the Dems and "Change". Either side, it's bullshit really.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=12thMan;470719]I gotta say one more thing, while it's on my mind. Just because it's on my mind.

I certainly respect every opinion here on the board, but boy did it bug the hell out of me that at the GOP convention tonight, their theme is "Country First." The sub-text being, if you're not with us, you're not putting country first. Or this is the party that has a corner on patriotism. In 2008 because I'm pro-choice, you're telling me I don't want country first? Or because we differ on taxes and government, I'm putting country first?[/quote]

I personally think you're reading too much into that.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=hooskins;470721]Obviously it's political rhetoric and I think you are looking to deep in it. They just want a catch phrase like the Dems and "Change". Either side, it's bullshit really.[/quote]


Wait a minute, you're telling me it's just a slogan and they don't mean that? Because John McCain has certainly echoed those sentiments in a few speeches on the stump this year.

I was shocked, and quite frankly offended, to see it plastered all over the auditorium.

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[quote=SmootSmack;470723]I personally think you're reading too much into that.[/quote]

Okay, someone please explain it to me. Because I've honestly tried to not read too much into it.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=12thMan;470726]Okay, someone please explain it to me. Because I've honestly tried to not read too much into it.[/quote]

I think you should probably explain why you took it to mean all the things you thought.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=12thMan;470724]Wait a minute, you're telling me it's just a slogan and they don't mean that? Because John McCain has certainly echoed those sentiments in a few speeches on the stump this year.

I was shocked, and quite frankly offended, to see it plastered all over the auditorium.[/quote]

Well I guess what I am trying to say is politicians say all sorts of bull and do another thing. You are right it is a bit offensive, but tonight what you saw at the RNC is something is pretty prevalent in politics.

I am sure some of his supporters believe that, but McCain knows its just a phrase to get support.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

I am sure Republicans are pissed off by the "Change" signs. Just because one votes Republican doesn't mean he/she doesn't want positive change from the last administration.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

What does country first mean?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Basically they are saying Dems are being to divisive and "country first" is just a fluffy term no one is really opposed to.

Another thing is the Republicans are now trying to market themselves as a party for all, With a female candidate to get hildog votes and liberman(along with others) focusing on how McCain works with both parties.

Interesting tactic.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Fluffy term you say? You mean like "Time Horizon?"

I found the whole RNC pretty sad, in a way I felt bad for them much like you would for a wounded animal. Of course, like a wounded bear, they're the sort of wounded animal you don't want to help because chances are good that they'd viciously rip your head off with one swipe.

How many people did they have in there? Couldn't have been more than 1000 people in there.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;470378]First off even if congress and the president did pass a law making abortion illegal the Supreme Court would have the final say and I don't see them over turning their prior decission. As far as SS is concerned all you have to do is look at Galviston (spelling) Texas private system to see how much better it performs over the current broken system.

Even Congress has their own seperate retirment plain which is not in the current SS plain that they force us into.[/quote]

The supreme court can't overturn constitutional amendments.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=12thMan;470726]Okay, someone please explain it to me. Because I've honestly tried to not read too much into it.[/quote]

Judge them not on what they say but on what they do.

The speeches and rhetoric are just fluff. "Change we can believe in" and "Country first" don't mean anything.

How are you going to balance the budget? What programs are important to you? How will you handle Russia? What makes you believe you are right on Iraq? How do you expect to reduce the cost of healthcare AND provide coverage for all Americans?

If they're not giving answers to the above types of probing questions, what they say doesn't amount to a hill of beans. So ignore it, and judge them on their actions, their record, and their plans.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;470734]Fluffy term you say? You mean like "Time Horizon?"

I found the whole RNC pretty sad, in a way I felt bad for them much like you would for a wounded animal. Of course, like a wounded bear, they're the sort of wounded animal you don't want to help because chances are good that they'd viciously rip your head off with one swipe.

How many people did they have in there? Couldn't have been more than 1000 people in there.[/quote]
It was nowhere near as cool as the coronation of BHO in Obamaopolis.

The conventions don't mean a whole lot, the real fun begins with the live debates.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Schneed10;470741]Judge them not on what they say but on what they do.

The speeches and rhetoric are just fluff. "Change we can believe in" and "Country first" don't mean anything.

How are you going to balance the budget? What programs are important to you? How will you handle Russia? What makes you believe you are right on Iraq? How do you expect to reduce the cost of healthcare AND provide coverage for all Americans?

If they're not giving answers to the above types of probing questions, what they say doesn't amount to a hill of beans. So ignore it, and judge them on their actions, their record, and their plans.[/quote]

Wait a minute. I thought if you said pretty words in super-cool sounding way you were the better candidate? Catchy phrases attract my attention a lot easier than taking on a "what have you done for me lately?" standpoint. Can you guess who I'm voting for?

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[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;470745]It was nowhere near as cool as the coronation of BHO in Obamaopolis.

The conventions don't mean a whole lot, the real fun begins with the live debates.[/quote]

I must admit Obama's coronation was spectacular, the only thing missing was the "Mission Accomplished" banner.

I'm looking forward to the debates.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;470732]What does country first mean?[/quote]

I think it had a lot to do with former Democratic VP candidate Joe Liebermann crossing party lines on Tuesday and supporting McCain in his keynote speech, stating that he supports McCain because "country matters more than party."

It's about McCain's theme of being a maverick, crossing party lines, etc.

At least that's the impression I got.