Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=redskingrove;538338]No, we can't afford him with our other pressing positional needs. Plus we are cap restrained with our high payroll.[/quote]

The problem isn't that we cant afford him it's that QB isn't a need and we need to let JC have a final chance for ust to determine whether he's our QB of the future.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=vallin21;538344]The problem isn't that we cant afford him it's that QB isn't a need and we need to let JC have a final chance for ust to determine whether he's our QB of the future.[/quote]

this will be campbells 5th nfl season and third as a full time starter. he played significantly his 2nd season. for the past 4 years hes improved in some areas while remaining stagnant in others. every year, theres a new excuse made for his lack of becoming the elite pro-bowl quarterback we thought he would be when we drafted him. do we really have to make him play out his entire contract before acknowledging that we made a mistake?... before we accept the fact he's just another trent dilfer?

at some point, when you make a bad decision, you have to cut your losses, get what you can for a player (ie trade him) and move on. committing to campbell another year only ensures we let campbell go without compensation and sets us back another year when it comes to finding a long term solution at quarterback.

sticking to jc another year is no different than mopping the decks on the titanic. weve invested too much him already. its time to "abandon ship"

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;538357]this will be campbells 5th nfl season and third as a full time starter. he played significantly his 2nd season. for the past 4 years hes improved in some areas while remaining stagnant in others. every year, theres a new excuse made for his lack of becoming the elite pro-bowl quarterback we thought he would be when we drafted him. do we really have to make him play out his entire contract before acknowledging that we made a mistake?... before we accept the fact he's just another trent dilfer?

at some point, when you make a bad decision, you have to cut your losses, get what you can for a player (ie trade him) and move on. committing to campbell another year only ensures we let campbell go without compensation and sets us back another year when it comes to finding a long term solution at quarterback.

sticking to jc another year is no different than mopping the decks on the titanic. weve invested too much him already. its time to "abandon ship"[/quote]Just ran a very simple regression equation on Campbell using only his prior stats, and of course, assuming 16 starts.

Campbell 09 - 350/557, 3790 yds, 17 TDs, 9 INTs

Yards per Attempt = 6.8
Completion Pecentage = 62.8%

Sacks taken = 31
QB Rating = 86.2

This, of course, assumes the quality of offense around him is on par with the average offense he's had over the past 3 years, which is to say, very sucky.

Abandon ship!

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=GMScud;538328][URL="http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11945847?source=rss"]Trade Cutler? George deal in 1994 provides warning - The Denver Post[/URL][/quote]

wow, hadn't thought of that. If that's the case, the danny must love him!

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

Before we say he's another Trent Dilfer, can I at least point out that Dilfer never, not once, ever had a season nearly as good as Campbell had last year at age 26?

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

Yeah I really don't get the comparison to Dilfer either.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;538357]this will be campbells 5th nfl season and third as a full time starter. he played significantly his 2nd season. for the past 4 years hes improved in some areas while remaining stagnant in others. [B]every year, theres a new excuse made for his lack of becoming the elite pro-bowl quarterback we thought he would be when we drafted him.[/B] do we really have to make him play out his entire contract before acknowledging that we made a mistake?... before we accept the fact he's just another trent dilfer?

at some point, when you make a bad decision, you have to cut your losses, get what you can for a player (ie trade him) and move on. committing to campbell another year only ensures we let campbell go without compensation and sets us back another year when it comes to finding a long term solution at quarterback.

sticking to jc another year is no different than mopping the decks on the titanic. weve invested too much him already. its time to "abandon ship"[/quote]

First off, I don't think Joe Gibbs looked at him as that, he just saw a kid of solid character & athletic ability that he could win with, as he had w/3 qb's in his first stint in DC.

Second, the excuses point to a much larger problem; everybody on the team has had to adjust to new systems under the danny. Let's face it, the skins haven't been a stable organization, and even under Gibbs, they brough in Saunders. Do you think Brunell adopted to Saunders offense well? I don't. At some point there has to be one system to build on, then judge the qb.

I believe the offense changed later in the year when Zorn started putting in more 4 wr sets w/an empty backfield. Even then, I don't think JC choked under pressure, I just think our O wasn't good enough to hang w/the big boys. He took a serious beating against Pitt.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;538357]this will be campbells 5th nfl season and third as a full time starter. he played significantly his 2nd season. for the past 4 years hes improved in some areas while remaining stagnant in others. every year, theres a new excuse made for his lack of becoming the elite pro-bowl quarterback we thought he would be when we drafted him. do we really have to make him play out his entire contract before acknowledging that we made a mistake?... before we accept the fact he's just another trent dilfer?

at some point, when you make a bad decision, you have to cut your losses, get what you can for a player (ie trade him) and move on. committing to campbell another year only ensures we let campbell go without compensation and sets us back another year when it comes to finding a long term solution at quarterback.

sticking to jc another year is no different than mopping the decks on the titanic. weve invested too much him already. its time to "abandon ship"[/quote]

So you think bringing in a brand new QB (with questionable character) to learn Zorn's offensive is the best option? I would agree with you if JC had been in the same system for the past three years, but he hasn't (yet still he did a good job last year).

It's funny that you mention that he's been in the league for 5 years, b/c if Gibbs had taken a risk with him, he'd be more developed as a QB right now, instead he went with Brunnel. Granted, Gibbs wanted to win right away and worked better with veteran QBs. It's funny though that a lot of people mention that the team needs to groom young players, and well Gibbs missed the opportunity to groom Campbell (make him a starter during his second season instead of the third).

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

Personally I don't think 3 new offenses in 4 years is an excuse. The reality of it is it's tough to get comfortable as a young QB if you're always learning a new system every offseason.

I'd love to see an example of a QB who has gone through what JC has in regard to system changes and didn't struggle.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;538373]Personally I don't think 3 new offenses in 4 years is an excuse. The reality of it is it's tough to get comfortable as a young QB if you're always learning a new system every offseason.

I'd love to see an example of a QB who has gone through what JC has in regard to system changes and didn't struggle.[/quote]Campbell didn't.

I mean, that was my one example :D

The notion that Jason Campbell isn't a franchise QB is kind of absurd. We won't know for sure until we get him some protection and develop some weapons and then see if his production reaches pro-bowl levels. Within reason, that could be in 2009, but no Quarterback since Tim Couch has ever busted out of the NFL while playing as well as Campbell did last season, and with Couch, there was a mitigating circumstance (his elbow developed chronic issues right at the time he hit the market).

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;538373]Personally I don't think 3 new offenses in 4 years is an excuse. The reality of it is it's tough to get comfortable as a young QB if you're always learning a new system every offseason.

I'd love to see an example of a QB who has gone through what JC has in regard to system changes and didn't struggle.[/quote]

Folks underestimate the importance of having continuity in an offense. If you look at the likes of Manning, Brady, McNabb, Eli, they've had the same coach and the same offense year after year. One criticism that I have of the FO/Ownership (which very few people mention) is that they have not created some type of continuity in offense.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538365]Before we say he's another Trent Dilfer, can I at least point out that Dilfer never, not once, ever had a season nearly as good as Campbell had last year at age 26?[/quote]



YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
Dilfer best year
1997 TAM 16 217 386 56.2 2555 6.6 21 59 11 82.8

Campbells best year
2008 WAS 16 315 506 62.3 3245 6.4 13 67 6 84.3

Dilfer had alot less attempts w/ 8 more td's but has 5 more picks.
I'd say its pretty close which is sad if you think about it.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;538378]YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
Dilfer best year
1997 TAM 16 217 386 56.2 2555 6.6 21 59 11 82.8

Campbells best year
2008 WAS 16 315 506 62.3 3245 6.4 13 67 6 84.3

Dilfer had alot less attempts w/ 8 more td's but has 5 more picks.
I'd say its pretty close which is sad if you think about it.[/quote]From 1997:

[URL="http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb1997"]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008[/URL]

Some dude from Jacksonville had a better year than either Brett Favre or John Elway. Well, I'll be.

By either metric, Dilfer's best year was a little bit worse than Gus Frerotte's year in 1997. He won ten games, but he also fumbled six times, and only lost one of them. Either way, Campbell's year was still pretty far above that sort of level of mediocre. Well, not far above, but clear enough for there to be little argument.

EDIT: For some fun trivial facts, check the last two players on that list.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;538357]this will be campbells 5th nfl season and third as a full time starter. he played significantly his 2nd season. for the past 4 years hes improved in some areas while remaining stagnant in others. every year, theres a new excuse made for his lack of becoming the elite pro-bowl quarterback we thought he would be when we drafted him. do we really have to make him play out his entire contract before acknowledging that we made a mistake?... before we accept the fact he's just another trent dilfer?

at some point, when you make a bad decision, you have to cut your losses, get what you can for a player (ie trade him) and move on. committing to campbell another year only ensures we let campbell go without compensation and sets us back another year when it comes to finding a long term solution at quarterback.

sticking to jc another year is no different than mopping the decks on the titanic. weve invested too much him already. its time to "abandon ship"[/quote]

Look, this is his make or break season for JC. It's important that he shows the FO and us that he's progressing and he's a starting QB in the league. If he doesn't have a great season then yeah I'd probably cut my ties if i find a better option, but he's had to deal with 3 systems in 4yrs which is tough for a guy who might not be able to pick up everything as fast as someone else. He's all we have coming into the season with unless you bring a shady character like Cutler. The bottom line is JC has to prove he's our starting QB and if not, he should go.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538361]Just ran a very simple regression equation on Campbell using only his prior stats, and of course, assuming 16 starts.

Campbell 09 - 350/557, 3790 yds, 17 TDs, 9 INTs

Yards per Attempt = 6.8
Completion Pecentage = 62.8%

Sacks taken = 31
QB Rating = 86.2

This, of course, assumes the quality of offense around him is on par with the average offense he's had over the past 3 years, which is to say, very sucky.

Abandon ship![/quote]

is that enough for you?

1td and 2 sacks per game and a meager 86.2 qb rating?

if you factor out his freakish uncharacteristic run of no tds in the first part of the season, he'd be averaging almost as many INTs as touchdowns.

jay cutler was a better qb his 2nd year than campbell will likely be in his fifth. jc, who will likely never be more than an average qb improved dramatically under zorns tutelage. now imagine what zorn could do with someone like cutler. the ceiling is low with campbell. with cutler, the skys the limit.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;538386]is that enough for you?

1td and 2 sacks per game and a meager 86.2 qb rating?

if you factor out his freakish uncharacteristic run of no tds in the first part of the season, he'd be averaging almost as many INTs as touchdowns.

jay cutler was a better qb his 2nd year than campbell will likely be in his fifth. jc, who will likely never be more than an average qb improved dramatically under zorns tutelage. now imagine what zorn could do with someone like cutler. the ceiling is low with campbell. with cutler, the skys the limit.[/quote]

Zorn has a year left to prove himself, I don't think he's going to want to risk it by teaching another QB his system all over again. And you overlook the fact that Cutler's 2nd year was under the same offense and coach.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

My bottom line is really simple: After next year JC will have had his full contract to prove his doubters wrong or right. I believe they are wrong and that he is going to have a standout year, and then you know what doubters/haters will say... oh he only played that way because it was a contract year.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;538386]is that enough for you?

1td and 2 sacks per game and a meager 86.2 qb rating?

if you factor out his freakish uncharacteristic run of no tds in the first part of the season, he'd be averaging almost as many INTs as touchdowns.

jay cutler was a better qb his 2nd year than campbell will likely be in his fifth. jc, who will likely never be more than an average qb improved dramatically under zorns tutelage. now imagine what zorn could do with someone like cutler. the ceiling is low with campbell. with cutler, the skys the limit.[/quote]You mean, in this offense, with Moss and Randle El as the only targets on the outside, and with no more help on the OL and at TE, 86.2 isn't good enough?

Look, Cutler's a career 3 to 2 TD/INT guy. His career completion percentage is about two points higher than Campbell, but they were equal last year. If I ran Cutler's stats in the Redskins' regression equation (which I can't, accurately at least, because there's zero Cutler on Redskins data), but they'd look something like:

Cutler 09 - 361/575, 4025 yds, 20 TDs, 16 INTs

Yards per Attempt = 7.0 (this is down from Cutler's career average, Skins adjustment)
Completion Pecentage = 62.8%
[B]
The QB rating with these numbers would be = 83.6[/B]

Which is actually less valuable in the current offense, because the huge increase in INTs would outweigh the TDs and Yds increase pretty significantly.

Cutler is actually really good at not getting sacked, but Campbell is no slouch.

Cutler/Campbell are really no different as prospects. They have basically the same record (16-20 vs. 17-20), and Cutler snuck into the pro bowl in the weaker conference this year, but there's no objective reason to assume one has a low ceiling, and the other could improve forever. That's just perception.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;538402]My bottom line is really simple: After next year JC will have had his full contract to prove his doubters wrong or right. I believe they are wrong and that he is going to have a standout year, and then you know what doubters/haters will say... oh he only played that way because it was a contract year.[/quote]

I can't see anyone questioning JC's character like that...they may question his talent but everyone knows he's a standup guy. Anyone who thinks JC would only give his best in a contract year doesn't have a clue.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

I'll re-state the other point: that if we improve the offense around Campbell, his rating projection instantly goes up. The number I have above assumes that the offense around him is no better than the mean average of the last 2.5 seasons, because that's the only assumption that can be made. If Kelly has a breakout year, Campbell's effortlessly in the 90's with 20+ TDs. If the OL improves and Kelly and Davis both break out, well, now Jason Campbell is a pro bowler.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=celts32;538406]I can't see anyone questioning JC's character like that...they may question his talent but everyone knows he's a standup guy. Anyone who thinks JC would only give his best in a contract year doesn't have a clue.[/quote]

Screw multiyear contracts, if i was the FO id sign only one year contracts so every year was a contract year. :soapbox: But yeah that would be crazy eh.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;538373]Personally I don't think 3 new offenses in 4 years is an excuse. The reality of it is it's tough to get comfortable as a young QB if you're always learning a new system every offseason.

I'd love to see an example of a QB who has gone through what JC has in regard to system changes and didn't struggle.[/quote]

there's a flip-side to that coin - if campbell had looked good in any one of those systems, the system wouldn't have been changed.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;538409]there's a flip-side to that coin - if campbell had looked good in any one of those systems, the system wouldn't have been changed.[/quote]Well, the thing with Saunders' system is that we couldn't run the ball.

Losing Dockery really hurt us there, because Kendall was ill-suited for that type of run blocking (much like Randy Thomas seems a bit ill-suited for the current run blocking).

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;538409]there's a flip-side to that coin - if campbell had looked good in any one of those systems, the system wouldn't have been changed.[/quote]

I don't think JC was the reasons for the system changes. Gibbs thought the team would be better off with someone else running the O so he hired Saunders. Saunders was then ousted when Gibbs left and then Zorn was hired. JC barely had the chance to get comfortable before each change was made and the reason for the changes were out of his hands.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;538413]I don't think JC was the reasons for the system changes. Gibbs thought the team would be better off with someone else running the O so he hired Saunders. Saunders was then ousted when Gibbs left and then Zorn was hired. JC barely had the chance to get comfortable before each change was made and the reason for the changes were out of his hands.[/quote]

Saunders playbook was ridiculous, and the terminology was different from what Campbell first learned in his pro career under gibbs but the general schemes and principles were similar. Campbell spent 1 year sitting on a bench under a pure Gibbs system. He then spent two years - the majority of which he spent as a starter - under Saunders. Those systems are systems which (supposedly) Campbell is an ideal fit for - they cover over his weaknesses while taking advantage of his strengths.

Campbell had two years in that system - one which has done very very well for other quarterbacks - yet the team chose to fire Saunders when Gibbs retired. It wasnt an automatic decision to fire Saunders either. Its not like Gibbs and Saunders were tied at the hip. If Campbell had been doing well and showing improvement and looking like he could be a franchise quarterback [B]after two years in an identical system[/B] (and three years if you accept the fact that Saunders offense is similar to the one Gibbs ran before), then they would have kept Saunders. They didnt. Why does everyone think now - suddenly, after spending two years in a system that goes against Campbells strengths - is he suddenly going to be a franchise QB? Two years in a system didnt work before. why does everyone think two years is the answer now? People make excuses about how bad the line is now and how that hurts campell... how he doesnt have receivers... his receivers werent any better under Saunders but his O-line sure as hell was. We had a dominant O-line in Campbells 2nd year in this system... and he still failed. Our offense didnt take off in that system until we had a competent QB playing when Campbell got hurt.

Campbell is not a franchise QB. He never will be. He's not horrible though - he's just average. If this franchise made a mistake when Gibbs left, it was not trying to trade Campbell last offseason. Theres no reason to continue this experiment. We need to trade Campbell now, while he still has some value. If not, we'll waste another season, miss out on getting compensation for him, and have to start the process over again next year.

Jay Cutler is - right now - a well above-average WCO quarterback. He has potential to be a perennial pro-bowler. Campbells potential will only get us where Cutler is right now. If we could (hypothetically) trade Campbell, our 13th overall pick, and a conditional pick in next years draft for Cutler... it would be well worth it in the long-term. Short-term, it would suck, but long-term, we need to look beyond Jason Campbell. Guys like Cutler dont come around very often. When they do, you have to do what you can to get them. Just my opinion, I know 99% of you dont agree with me.

A year from now, we'll know who was right. From my position, if i'm wrong, its something i would be happy to be wrong about.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538407]I'll re-state the other point: that if we improve the offense around Campbell, his rating projection instantly goes up. The number I have above assumes that the offense around him is no better than the mean average of the last 2.5 seasons, because that's the only assumption that can be made. If Kelly has a breakout year, Campbell's effortlessly in the 90's with 20+ TDs. If the OL improves and Kelly and Davis both break out, well, now Jason Campbell is a pro bowler.[/quote]

I'm a JC supporter and have been since he got here. But I think if you went around the NFL and asked NFL defensive coordinators, players and coaches who the better player is they'd probably all go with Cutler. I don't need to look at stats to tell me that he's a bit better right now. Now a lot goes into that. Coaching, stability and the talent around them. Cutler has had all those things in his favor. But as I mentioned before he also seems to get the ball out quicker, has the better release and processes information quicker. I'm really interested in seeing Campbell take his game to the next level, meaning he needs to start being able to win some games for us and carry the offense. Cutler has already done some of those things and now it's time for Campbell to do it.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;538419]I'm a JC supporter and have been since he got here. But I think if you went around the NFL and asked NFL defensive coordinators, players and coaches who the better player is they'd probably all go with Cutler. I don't need to look at stats to tell me that he's a bit better right now. Now a lot goes into that. Coaching, stability and the talent around them. Cutler has had all those things in his favor. But as I mentioned before he also seems to get the ball out quicker, has the better release and processes information quicker. I'm really interested in seeing Campbell take his game to the next level, meaning he needs to start being able to win some games for us and carry the offense. Cutler has already done some of those things and now it's time for Campbell to do it.[/quote]

i agree with you too,I'm a JC supporter also but Cutler is better,Cutler had no resemblance of a defense and sometimes had to force the ball a lot more to try and win games,if he had a good defense his ints would not be that high imo

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

So let me get this straight, you people want to...

- Trade away our #13th pick for another player (after everyone bitches and whines about the FO trading away picks and not "building through the draft"), because I'm sure we'd be losing this pick in some sort of trade.

- Trade for a player who has caused a PR nightmare for his team and probably the reason why it is not seen as a big deal is b/c he's a QB (if he were a receiver, he'd be compared to TO).

- Disrupt the continuity of having our current QB with the same coach and offense, something that hasn't happened in a while (don't tell me the Gibbs and Saunders had the same system).

- Completely disregard JCs performance during the first 8 games when he had a working line and a healthy CP.

- Officially putting Zorn on a short leash, since bringing Cutler here would give us the whole "when is Shanahan getting hired" talk all season.

Once again, I don't know why continuity for more than one or two seasons is undervalued. The only way we should bring someone like Cutler would be if the team decided to completely blow up the team, which that hasn't happened.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[QUOTE=BigHairedAristocrat;538386]is that enough for you?

1td and 2 sacks per game and a meager 86.2 qb rating?

if you factor out his freakish uncharacteristic run of no tds in the first part of the season, he'd be averaging almost as many INTs as touchdowns.

jay cutler was a better qb his 2nd year than campbell will likely be in his fifth.[B] jc, who will likely never be more than an average qb improved dramatically under zorns tutelage.[/B] now imagine what zorn could do with someone like cutler. [B] the ceiling is low with campbell. with cutler, the skys the limit.[/[/B]QUOTE]

J.C. will never be more than average but he improved dramatically under Zorn? In his first year right? I don't know how he can improve dramatically in one year and be doomed to never be more than average. I'm not ready to put a ceiling on J.C. myself. Not yet.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Ruhskins;538436]So let me get this straight, you people want to...

- Trade away our #13th pick for another player (after everyone bitches and whines about the FO trading away picks and not "building through the draft"), because I'm sure we'd be losing this pick in some sort of trade.

- Trade for a player who has caused a PR nightmare for his team and probably the reason why it is not seen as a big deal is b/c he's a QB (if he were a receiver, he'd be compared to TO).

- Disrupt the continuity of having our current QB with the same coach and offense, something that hasn't happened in a while (don't tell me the Gibbs and Saunders had the same system).

- Completely disregard JCs performance during the first 8 games when he had a working line and a healthy CP.

- Officially putting Zorn on a short leash, since bringing Cutler here would give us the whole "when is Shanahan getting hired" talk all season.

Once again, I don't know why continuity for more than one or two seasons is undervalued. The only way we should bring someone like Cutler would be if the team decided to completely blow up the team, which that hasn't happened.[/quote]

Preach on brotha

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=celts32;538406]I can't see anyone questioning JC's character like that...they may question his talent but everyone knows he's a standup guy. Anyone who thinks JC would only give his best in a contract year doesn't have a clue.[/quote]


Do you know Campbell personally? Then all you know of him is what he does on the field and the persona they project via the media. I am with you that I think JC is a good guy, but then again most of us have been around long enough to realize how much of what is projected to us about most of these guys is more or less propaganda. UNless you really know the guy enough to know what his goals and motives are you are just like anyone else, stuck on relying on the media with regards of forming an opinion on him. That being said, the reality of his present predicament and his future with this team rides on his having a huge year this season. If he has another mediocre performance with his second season of the WCO him and Zorn are gone. Just another fruitless line of Coaching/QB experiments gone bad if they guys don't pull it out. Mr Haynesworth just might save both their jobs.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

this is a stupid argument. cutler would want a 100mill contract, we don't have the space. there's no one to restructure for major money, and rabach and thrash won't even make up 3mill if they're both cut. beyond that, you're talking multiple draft picks.

cutler isn't bringing his offense or his WRs with him, and campbell's not the reason we lost last year (OL/WRs).

I don't think campbell is ever going to be one of the greats, but he's good and young and cutler isn't a big enough improvement to shower him/the broncos with crazy picks and money.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=That Guy;538456]this is a stupid argument. cutler would want a 100mill contract, we don't have the space. there's no one to restructure for major money, and rabach and thrash won't even make up 3mill if they're both cut. beyond that, you're talking multiple draft picks.

cutler isn't bringing his offense or his WRs with him, and campbell's not the reason we lost last year (OL/WRs).

I don't think campbell is ever going to be one of the greats, but he's good and young and cutler isn't a big enough improvement to shower him/the broncos with crazy picks and money.[/quote]

Nail, meet hammer. Thank you.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=That Guy;538456]I don't think campbell is ever going to be one of the greats, but he's good and young and cutler isn't a big enough improvement to shower him/the broncos with crazy picks and money.[/quote]I agree that he won't be one of the top 3 or 4 in the league ever, but he can be everything that Cutler is and will be if we put the right team around him.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538459]I agree that he won't be one of the top 3 or 4 in the league ever, but he can be everything that Cutler is and will be if we put the right team around him.[/quote]
G stop trippin!! No way can JC have a career even close to Cutler's unless a flip/flop of offenses- I mean lines and wide out talent was to happen... JC= career journeyman, Cutler= career probowler.. Don't be too blinded as a homer..

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

Seems like we're not the only ones hearing rumors about Cutler. This is pretty hilarious.

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/03/18/snap.judgments/index.html]Why it's all Jay Cutler, all the time - Don Banks - SI.com[/url]

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Redskin Jim;538471]G stop trippin!! No way can JC have a career even close to Cutler's unless a flip/flop of offenses- I mean lines and wide out talent was to happen... JC= career journeyman, Cutler= career probowler.. Don't be too blinded as a homer..[/quote]

Cutler may have better numbers than Campbell, but their career records are virtually identical. You can argue the Skins have a much better Defense, but I would argue the Broncos Offense (O-line, WR and most importantly the same offensive system) has been better than ours. With that said, I don't care what kind of numbers a QB puts up...[B]winning is the name of the game[/B]. For their careers, it's a wash. The difference between these two guys is Campbell is a football player, a real gamer. Cutler is a whiney a$$ biznitch and a prima-dona (no clue if that's spelled correctly). Like I've previously stated, you can't tell if Campbell just threw a TD or an INT by his demeanor. Nothing seems to bother him. That's what I want in a QB. Let's give Campbell a second year in the same system. He hasn't been in the same system in consecutive years in the NFL yet.

BTW...Doug Williams was a career journeyman and the Skins did pretty well with him in 87...it's not just about the QB.

HAIL!

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=SkinzzFan;538493]Cutler may have better numbers than Campbell, but their career records are virtually identical. You can argue the Skins have a much better Defense, but I would argue the Broncos Offense (O-line, WR and most importantly the same offensive system) has been better than ours. With that said, I don't care what kind of numbers a QB puts up...[B]winning is the name of the game[/B]. For their careers, it's a wash. The difference between these two guys is Campbell is a football player, a real gamer. Cutler is a whiney a$$ biznitch and a prima-dona (no clue if that's spelled correctly). Like I've previously stated, you can't tell if Campbell just threw a TD or an INT by his demeanor. Nothing seems to bother him. That's what I want in a QB. Let's give Campbell a second year in the same system. He hasn't been in the same system in consecutive years in the NFL yet.

BTW...Doug Williams was a career journeyman and the Skins did pretty well with him in 87...it's not just about the QB.

HAIL![/quote]
I think that pretty much bottom lines it. I agree.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;538444]Do you know Campbell personally? Then all you know of him is what he does on the field and the persona they project via the media. I am with you that I think JC is a good guy, but then again most of us have been around long enough to realize how much of what is projected to us about most of these guys is more or less propaganda. UNless you really know the guy enough to know what his goals and motives are you are just like anyone else, stuck on relying on the media with regards of forming an opinion on him. That being said, the reality of his present predicament and his future with this team rides on his having a huge year this season. If he has another mediocre performance with his second season of the WCO him and Zorn are gone. Just another fruitless line of Coaching/QB experiments gone bad if they guys don't pull it out. Mr Haynesworth just might save both their jobs.[/quote]

Of course I don't know him. But I watch, read and listen to an incredible amount of football coverage including Sirius NFL radio all day at work and I have never heard anyone say a bad word about JC personally. I guess your opinion is that you can question anyones motives if you don't know them. I don't roll that way though...I choose to believe JC has given his best every day since the redskins drafted him and will continue to do so regardless of his contract situation. Whether or not his best is good enough long term is the question.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

I'm not going to say that JC has no talent, I believe he does. However, I find it funny that when D. Hall and Haynesworth were signed, people were going off about character issues left and right about these guys despite their talents (even though IMO these "character issues" were blown out of proportion). Yet when it comes to this whole notion of bringing in Cutler, people are willing to throw character out the window for a player that may have slightly more talent Jason Campbell.