Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

I personally believe, that if after 12 regular season games (NOT preseason) we are not in the playoff hunt, then it will be time to look elsewhere.

J-Dawg.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=jgalecpa;579390]I personally believe, that if after 12 regular season games (NOT preseason) we are not in the playoff hunt, then it will be time to look elsewhere.

J-Dawg.[/quote]This is probably about right. After 12 games, you can probably evaluate Campbell's development as a player in it's entirety.

Still, context is important. If at that point, we're not in the playoff hunt, but the evidence suggest that Campbell has improved (i.e. we have the 26th best defense in the league), then you have to act accordingly in the offseason. This isn't the open and shut playoffs or bust case people would like it to be.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;579387]I think it's a fair assumption that he was trying to do his best, and yet, any scout with any experience will tell you that little can be concluded from an endless string of Campbell's play this year.

Despite your prior assertion that you're also considering past play, you seem to be a slave to the idea of a "clean slate" in this presason. Campbell has no more to prove than anyone else on the roster, and can only do so much before getting an entire game to play.

Honestly though, even if you judged him by just what you saw in the preseason, the results would be mixed, and you'd want to see more of him. By writing him off, you're showing some degree of non-objectivity.[/quote]

No one has a clean slate in the nfl, even the rookies. If an undrafted rookie was having his type of performance (if it were against non-starters), it would be assumed that the rookie would be cut. However if it were a 1st round rookie, the chances would be lessened because of the benefit of the doubt given.

There are more expectations for Campbell to perform, even now because of the lack of confidence that the fo has shown. Everyone's past playing history, performance, and expectations all are taken into account just like everyone else is.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;579392]This is probably about right. After 12 games, you can probably evaluate Campbell's development as a player in it's entirety.

Still, context is important. If at that point, we're not in the playoff hunt, but the evidence suggest that Campbell has improved (i.e. we have the 26th best defense in the league), then you have to act accordingly in the offseason. This isn't the open and shut playoffs or bust case people would like it to be.[/quote]


Absolutely. If he significantly improves his QB rating, dials in the long balls a bit better, and continues to protect the ball as he has done the last year and a half, than you are correct.

J-Dawg.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;579375]Bullshit. I've seen plenty of excellent individual plays from the guy.

You're coming off like a pissy ex-girlfriend. I've never seen so much whine in one place.[/quote]

I have also seen a lot of great plays from the guy. But please try to avoid using harsh language and attacks.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;579360]Is it just me od do you guys feel that Zorn tried to run too much inside the redzone?
ran 3 in a row with starters. JC can move,why not try a rollout?
ok,time for practice.[/quote]


[quote=skinsfan69;579379]Zorn stinks at calling plays IMO. It's the freakin pre season and he's running the damn ball which wasn't the problem last year. I'd be throwing it almost every down.[/quote]

I think that Zorn is wasting the preseason.
He's admits that he hasn't been game planning:

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]"I guess a week ago, I felt like we were just running plays. It was like a practice, we didn't gameplan much; [this week] we gameplanned a little bit more. Our guys were much more intent on improving, because they could see what was going on on video. And they did, they showed much more enthusiasm for playing. They kind of understood some of the moments of the game, the fourth downs, the third downs"[/COLOR]
[url=http://blog.redskins.com/2009/08/23/...ell/#continued]Redskins Blog -- The Official Blog of the Washington Redskins[/url]

Heck he isn't even running plays that they rep'd in practice:

[COLOR="Green"]"It was close,” said Kelly. “The crazy thing, though, is that me and Jason never practiced that route all week long. The first time we ran it was in the game. We'll get it done,
though—we'll complete it next time."[/COLOR]
[url]http://www.theomfield.com/2009/08/re...-qb-jason.html[/url]

Meanwhile other teams are gameplanning and playing their starters for most of the 1st half.

JC hasn't even played enough to struggle.
I don't know what Zorn is doing, but i wish he was working on the offense.
The playcalling in the RZ was :confused:

I thought that we needed to work on the passing game especially the RZ.
But, Zorn chose not to call a fade route to Kelly or Thomas.
He didn't even call 1 RZ pass.
But, Zorn seemed to save his best playcalling for the 3rd team offense.

*Edit*- I'll be surprised if the passing game looks sharp against the Pats.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=warriorzpath;579393]No one has a clean slate in the nfl, even the rookies. If an undrafted rookie was having his type of performance (if it were against non-starters), it would be assumed that the rookie would be cut. However if it were a 1st round rookie, the chances would be lessened because of the benefit of the doubt given.

There are more expectations for Campbell to perform, even now because of the lack of confidence that the fo has shown. Everyone's past playing history, performance, and expectations all are taken into account just like everyone else is.[/quote]I agree, but it's this realization that makes the posts about "having to perform" in the preseason a bit ridiculous. Everything we've seen to this point suggests adequacy (the problem is that we're expecting more than just adequacy), so why should 13 passes with varying degrees of execution matter? They shouldn't, over everything we've got.

So it looks really bad when you see an underthrown deep ball in the rain, and a bit of a high throw to Moss mixed in with some nice conversions on third down, and the first thing you think is "this guy is a complete bum". He looked better in a lot of ways against Pittsburghs defense than Charlie Batch did against our defense, which may not be a fair comparision, but it's an easy to normalize the weather conditions that everyone had to play in.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;579396]I have also seen a lot of great plays from the guy. But please try to avoid using harsh language and attacks.[/quote]My bad. I apologize.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

In all fairness to Zorn, the Ravens didn't gameplan the first preseason game either.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=53Fan;579400]In all fairness, the Ravens didn't gameplan the first preseason game either.[/quote]

Really?

I live in Baltimore and the talk from Ravens camp has been that Cameron planned to open up the offense.

And guess what?

In the preseason game against us the Ravens put Flacco in shotgun and spread the field and passed the ball 15 times 2 more then JC has thrown the entire preseason.

And the Ravens were blitzing on defense, which used to be no-no for preseason.

*The rules for preseason have changed and Zorn is behind the curve.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

There are a few starting quarterbacks in the NFL who haven't proved adequacy:

1. Kyle Orton
2. Matt Cassel
3. Shaun Hill
4. The post-Green Bay Brett Favre
5. Matthew Stafford
6. Luke McCown
7. Mark Sanchez
8. The post-Martz Marc Bulger
9. JaMarcus Russell
10. Derek Anderson/Brady Quinn
11. Trent Edwards
12. Vince Young
13. Joe Flacco

You could take any of these guys over Campbell, but it would be merely a personal preference. Not anything based on past performance.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;579398]I agree, but it's this realization that makes the posts about "having to perform" in the preseason a bit ridiculous. Everything we've seen to this point suggests adequacy (the problem is that we're expecting more than just adequacy), so why should 13 passes with varying degrees of execution matter? They shouldn't, over everything we've got.

So it looks really bad when you see an underthrown deep ball in the rain, and a bit of a high throw to Moss mixed in with some nice conversions on third down, and the first thing you think is "this guy is a complete bum". He looked better in a lot of ways against Pittsburghs defense than Charlie Batch did against our defense, which may not be a fair comparision, but it's an easy to normalize the weather conditions that everyone had to play in.[/quote]

That's the situation that campbell is in - he's under the microscope. He should know that coming into this season and also preseason. It's almost like a rookie that is trying to make the team. Every play, bad or good, is scrutinized.

But he can't control this anymore, except for his play this season. That's the only way to show what he can do. Personally, I don't see anything unfair about having this opportunity. We should all be so lucky.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=30gut;579401]Really?

I live in Baltimore and the talk from Ravens camp has been that Cameron planned to open up the offense.

And guess what?

In the preseason game against us the Ravens put Flacco in shotgun and spread the field and passed the ball 15 times 2 more then JC has thrown the entire preseason.

And the Ravens were blitzing on defense, which used to be no-no for preseason.

*The rules for preseason have changed and Zorn is behind the curve.[/quote]

[url=http://wnst.net/wordpress/lukejones/2009/08/12/ravens-redskins-preview-conservative-will-be-the-theme/]Ravens-Redskins Preview: Conservative will be the Theme | Luke Jones’ Blog | WNST[/url]

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Did Campbell have a good camp? I mean we're hearing a ton of praise about Orakpo and Mitchell so it kind of worries me that no one seems to be saying anything about JC.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=gibbsisgod;579336]Maybe its just me but I thought he was making very good decisions with the football and getting it out of his hands quick. He wasn't waitng for someone to come open, he was anticipating it and being very quick in the pocket. If things broke down he used his legs and I think that is good. He hasn't taken a sack and hasn't turned the ball over. Again, not great but not worthless as you would make it sound.[/quote]

It's not just you. I agree.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;579360]Is it just me od do you guys feel that Zorn tried to run too much inside the redzone?
ran 3 in a row with starters. JC can move,why not try a rollout?
ok,time for practice.[/quote]

I was really p o 'd that on either 2nd and definitely 3rd, JC didn't fake the handoff, I think he would have walked in on the backside. I only hope that it is all in the playbook, and JZ just is keeping it basic. But a qb endaround would have given JC a lot of credo (especially if you walked a TE that way too) yes that ticked me off.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=53Fan;579408][url=http://wnst.net/wordpress/lukejones/2009/08/12/ravens-redskins-preview-conservative-will-be-the-theme/]Ravens-Redskins Preview: Conservative will be the Theme | Luke Jones’ Blog | WNST[/url][/quote]

From your link:
“In the preseason, I want [Flacco] to throw completions,” offensive coordinator Cam Camerson said. “That could be up the field [or] underneath. I want to see completions inside the numbers, up the field, sideline to sideline. [B][U]That’s what we’re going to try to do this preseason[/U][/B]. For us to improve our offense, we’ve got to throw the football better. Obviously, it starts with the quarterback.”

^^That's exactly what they did.
They weren't conservative, Cameron was trying to get their passing game going.

Their starting QB threw 15 times ours threw 6 times.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Just got caught up on all the posts.

No one can tell me that JC is going to be worse than last year, and last year we had 2 newbie receivers that couldn't get on the field and when they did made lots of mistakes. This preseason, we have seen Campbell shaking off the off-season, while the receivers named Thomas, Kelly, and Mitchell have been coming into there own with all the qbs. Once the regular season starts, and Cooley is in on most every down, and teams are worrying about Portis, you don't think we will be seeing Kelly on the slant with his hands he has demonstrated, or DT on the corner post. Pre-season is vanilla, and no one is writing record books based off these performances.

One post asked why I think JC could take us to the playoffs (of course he asked as a diversion to answering my question). It's really simple, our Oline has looked solid, starters and backups. When JC had a solid line, he was putting up MVP style numbers, pulled out a great win from NO, and led a game winning drive against the Rams, only to have the D give it back. Same with SF
Zorn has learned more, and even I hated the 3 runs to the endzone, he had to see what the line/betts could do. I doubt he will try that in the regular season.

If you watch the plays and calls the 2nd and 3rd team offenses are running, they have a much more open playbook. Which to me is Zorn's way of testing his planning for this year.

JC mainly needs to lead this team, he will never be the gamer that Colt probably is, but at the NFL level, I believe he has the best chance of leading this team deep into the playoffs out of any qb who is now an option for our team.

84.2, 13, 6, 3245

I expect that all these numbers, except maybe 6, will increase. And that will bode well for our team.

And if JC doesn't. Then we bring on another guy next year, or Chase in game 12. But why spend 4 yrs working with, teaching, preparing a guy, to show him the door 3 games into his last season. That would be ridiculous.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Regardless of what Jason does this year Rivers is no longer an option. Just sighned a 6 year extension for around 92 mill.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;579410]Did Campbell have a good camp? I mean we're hearing a ton of praise about Orakpo and Mitchell so it kind of worries me that no one seems to be saying anything about JC.[/quote]Following the rapid reports, I think it could best be described as up and down. I think it was obvious by the way the reports were written that he was outplaying Colt and Todd Collins, but I'm thinking that Chase Daniel is the only guy who has been truly exceeded his relative expectations.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=30gut;579416]From your link:
“In the preseason, I want [Flacco] to throw completions,” offensive coordinator Cam Camerson said. “That could be up the field [or] underneath. I want to see completions inside the numbers, up the field, sideline to sideline. [B][U]That’s what we’re going to try to do this preseason[/U][/B]. For us to improve our offense, we’ve got to throw the football better. Obviously, it starts with the quarterback.”

^^That's exactly what they did.
They weren't conservative, Cameron was trying to get their passing game going.

Their starting QB threw 15 times ours threw 6 times.[/quote]

You are correct. They ran what they wanted to see and so did we. What I said was in all fairness to Zorn, the Ravens didn't gameplan either. They didn't filmsearch for our weaknesse's and put together a plan of attack to beat us. Everyone wants to see their QB's make completions. They ran what they wanted to see. Harbaugh says in the article, "We're not going to gameplan against them, and they're not going to gameplan against us. Maybe our misunderstanding with each other comes from the word "against". They didn't "study" us and put forth a gameplan. They ran plays they wanted to see, so in that light, yes, they gameplanned. My bad. Cool? :)

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

For those who were pimping Mark Sanchez, we just saw how he handles pressure and the Ravens' D, piss-poor throw, INT for TD. HAHAHAHAHA.

But JC sucks, LOL.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Wow, Sanchez looks awful.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

and had Lewis not dropped his second pass he would've been 2/2INT for TDs.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;579451]Wow, Sanchez looks awful.[/quote]

NO! It can't be true!!!!

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

He's not even stepping into his throws. Stafford was bad on Saturday, but he didn't look [I]scared[/I].

I hope they leave him in there for four or five drives to work out the kinks, or the media in that town will eat him up.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

We should have traded every #1 draft pick which we have until the end of the century for Sanchez.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Flacco doesn't look all that great either, which is good news for the Jets defense, and bad for our defense.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Forget Kelley Washington...Marko would have made that catch.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Well watching baltimores d makes me feel better about our game. I don't get your comment tripp. Our starting d was fine against flacco, imo. I just hope we play baltimore again :)

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Lotus;579459]We should have traded every #1 draft pick which we have until the end of the century for Sanchez.[/quote]

don't worry I see Tim Tebow in our future

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;579471]don't worry I see Tim Tebow in our future[/quote]

I don't think that you caught the sarcasm in my post. And, goodness, we don't want the overrated Tebow.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Lotus;579473]I don't think that you caught the sarcasm in my post. And, goodness, we don't want the overrated Tebow.[/quote]

At first I thought u were for real. I honestly think we have something here. We have great talent atleast in the the pre-saeson by our young backup QB's.Last year with Colt hince the PJ5 following. Now Sat. with Chase it gives me hope there is upside to each. The talent we have at diffrent positions coming in and that are already here feels as of a powder keg ready to burst, and it could be limitless on the things we can do. I guess we just need that spark but from where it comes. I dont know, but its already here now its just wait and see.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Lotus;579473]I don't think that you caught the sarcasm in my post. And, goodness, we don't want the overrated Tebow.[/quote]


Yeah no shit. Look at past Gator QB studs. Oh yeah, that's right, they all played for us under Spurrier. Bunch of system QBs that couldn't hack it when the odds are evened out when they hit the NFL. I would rather have Chase Daniel than Tebow. McCoy or Bradford should go over him in the draft.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;579471]don't worry I see Tim Tebow in our future[/quote]


If we keep Daniel and Brennan why would we go for Tebow? The last QB that made an impact in the NFL out of the big 3 of Florida NCAA football was Brad Johnson.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=53Fan;579440]You are correct. They ran what they wanted to see and so did we. What I said was in all fairness to Zorn, the Ravens didn't gameplan either. They didn't filmsearch for our weaknesse's and put together a plan of attack to beat us. Everyone wants to see their QB's make completions. They ran what they wanted to see. Harbaugh says in the article, "We're not going to gameplan againat them, and they're not going to gameplan against us. Maybe our misunderstanding with each other comes from the word "against". They didn't "study" us and put forth a gameplan. They ran plays they wanted to see, so in that light, yes, they gameplanned. My bad. Cool? :)[/quote]

Maybe 'gameplan' the wrong word to use on my part.
I was trying to point out that the Ravens OC was actually using the preseason games to work on improving their passing game.
You're right they didn't 'gameplan' against us, but they certainly had a plan.

Zorn was just running random plays:
"I guess a week ago, I felt like we were just running plays. It was like a practice, we didn't gameplan much; [this week] we gameplanned a little bit more."
[url=http://blog.redskins.com/2009/08/23/...ell/#continued]Redskins Blog -- The Official Blog of the Washington Redskins[/url]

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;579478]Yeah no shit. Look at past Gator QB studs. Oh yeah, that's right, they all played for us under Spurrier. Bunch of system QBs that couldn't hack it when the odds are evened out when they hit the NFL. I would rather have Chase Daniel than Tebow. McCoy or Bradford should go over him in the draft.[/quote]

My vote is for Jevan Snead

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=WaldSkins;579496]My vote is for Jevan Snead[/quote]I don't think Snead is either coming out this next year, nor is he going to be a top three round pick when he does, but that opinion is for a different day, different argument.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;579468]Well watching baltimores d makes me feel better about our game. I don't get your comment tripp. Our starting d was fine against flacco, imo. I just hope we play baltimore again :)[/quote]I made that comment before the long pass to Mason, for the record. But Baltimore did show some of the same coverage flaws we had, and demonstrated a lot of the same pass rush dominance as we did.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=30gut;579416]From your link:
“In the preseason, I want [Flacco] to throw completions,” offensive coordinator Cam Camerson said. “That could be up the field [or] underneath. I want to see completions inside the numbers, up the field, sideline to sideline. [B][U]That’s what we’re going to try to do this preseason[/U][/B]. For us to improve our offense, we’ve got to throw the football better. Obviously, it starts with the quarterback.”

^^That's exactly what they did.
They weren't conservative, Cameron was trying to get their passing game going.

Their starting QB threw 15 times ours threw 6 times.[/quote]

I was watching the Balt. too and it got me even more mad at Zorn. Cameron knows what he's doing.