Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=GTripp0012;593243]I'm saying it's someone's fault other than Chad Pennington. Then I'm asking if you think Schottenheimer had anything to do with that.

I also was trying to point out that the Jets made a questionable quarterback decision in each of the last three seasons, and while that's certainly a personnel issue (I kinda think Tannenbaum is a dolt), I'm wondering what role the Mangini/Schottenheimer combo had in screwing up the QB situation.

If Schotty can be completely absolved from the mess with his QBs in NY, couldn't a similar argument work as a defense for Zorn not breaking through here?[/quote]

Well I think Schottenheimer had little if anything to do with deciding who he was coaching, just asked to do the best he could with who he had. Thought he did a nice job of working with Brees and Rivers in San Diego, and the aforementioned Jets QBs.

But to my earlier point, I was just stating that having seen both Jets games and both Redskins games I like that Schott is showing confidence in Sanchez at critical junctures that I don't always see from Zorn to Campbell.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=SmootSmack;593250]Well I think Schottenheimer had little if anything to do with deciding who he was coaching, just asked to do the best he could with who he had. Thought he did a nice job of working with Brees and Rivers in San Diego, and the aforementioned Jets QBs.

But to my earlier point, I was just stating that having seen both Jets games and both Redskins games I like that Schott is showing confidence in Sanchez at critical junctures that I don't always see from Zorn to Campbell.[/quote]I'm not speaking from a position of authority because I missed most of Jets-Pats, but I just see two guys who are very systematically similar. I wish I could say that I had the confidence in Zorn to trust Jason Campbell in big situations, but I'm just of the opinion that it's sort of a no-brainer.

I know we also differ on our opinion of Sanchez as a pro prospect, so I'm suggesting we table this one until more of the season passes. I'm just not seeing the trust angle as it applies to Zorn here, although certainly, if he does have an issue with trusting his players, it could be the end of him as a head coach.

I think where you see a problem, I see a symptom of a greater issue. But I'd like more evidence before I draw any conclusions.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

I think Zorn should go. I really like the guy but Dan Snyder put him in a position to fail. Washington is just the wrong franchise have to learn both playcalling and head coaching on the job.

For his sake, I wish Fassel had been signed and Zorn was OC. I do feel bad for him, but our window of opportunity with a lot of these veterans will close before he is up to speed.

Looking back, I wish they had just brought in the next coach during the offseason.

Of course this goes back to Snyder making another poor football decision. That's okay, it is only another failed experiment that the fans have to deal with.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;593303]I think Zorn should go. I really like the guy but Dan Snyder put him in a position to fail. Washington is just the wrong franchise have to learn both playcalling and head coaching on the job.

For his sake, I wish Fassel had been signed and Zorn was OC. I do feel bad for him, but our window of opportunity with a lot of these veterans will close before he is up to speed.

Looking back, I wish they had just brought in the next coach during the offseason.

Of course this goes back to Snyder making another poor football decision. That's okay, it is only another failed experiment that the fans have to deal with.[/quote]

8-8 in his FIRST-EVER head coaching experience is hardly the massive failure you're trying to pass it off as.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;593303]For his sake, I wish Fassel had been signed and Zorn was OC. I do feel bad for him, but our window of opportunity with a lot of these veterans will close before he is up to speed.[/quote]

If Fassel is so good why is he coaching in the UFL? Ditto for Billick. If the Redskins were to make a coaching change, my choices would be Tony Dungy or Cam Cameron.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;593497]If Fassel is so good why is he coaching in the UFL? Ditto for Billick. If the Redskins were to make a coaching change, my choices would be Tony Dungy or Cam Cameron.[/quote]

Dungy! However, I am not giving up on Zorn YET.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Buster;593504]Dungy! However, I am not giving up on Zorn YET.[/quote]

I agree, not giving up just yet after 2 games.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;593510]I agree, not giving up just yet after 2 games.[/quote]

Ummm....18 games, Im not sure Zorn can handle being Head coach and the playcaller. If Gibbs admitted that he would be better served letting an offensive coordinator call plays, why does Zorn think he can do any better. Because he is a genius, and needs to feed his ego! Plus "I really enjoy calling the plays", enjoy it while you can Zorny!

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=roth74va;593541]Ummm....18 games, Im not sure Zorn can handle being Head coach and the playcaller. If Gibbs admitted that he would be better served letting an offensive coordinator call plays, why does Zorn think he can do any better. Because he is a genius, and needs to feed his ego! Plus "I really enjoy calling the plays", enjoy it while you can Zorny![/quote]

Is it Zorn's fault that his 3 rookie receivers picked last year were so out of shape, hurt and immature that he they couldn't see the field? His OL was old and hurt constantly? To me last year doesn't count. Yeah, this year's offense hasn't gotten to a stellar scoring, but if you watched the game our offense moved the ball up and down the field and used many different receivers than in week 1. Yes, we have RZ problems that I believe will get worked out, to me an encouraging sign was that we used many different receivers last week, Thomas and Sellers dropped a few and I will not make excuses, Zorn made a bad call in the RZ.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Buster;593492]8-8 in his FIRST-EVER head coaching experience is hardly the massive failure you're trying to pass it off as.[/quote]

I didn't say or infer that he is a colossal failure (not sure where you are pulling that from), I said that this is the wrong town for a coach to learn on the job.

I would argue that the offense has taken a step back from Gibbs 2.0 and that an experienced offensive coach and playcaller would be scoring more points with this team.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

Absurd. Jim Zorn's offense ran up and down the field, and just didnt score because of MISTAKES by the players. I don't recall Zorn dropping any TD passes Sunday....which Devin Thomas and Mike Sellers both did. Zorn didn't fumble in the red zone either, that was Santana.
Calling for Zorn to be fired is not appropriate. His playcalling produced several long drives, and if the players didnt commit stupid mistakes, we would have scored TDs.

We won because of our D and Zorn.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;593544]Is it Zorn's fault that his 3 rookie receivers picked last year were so out of shape, hurt and immature that he they couldn't see the field? His OL was old and hurt constantly? To me last year doesn't count. Yeah, this year's offense hasn't gotten to a stellar scoring, but if you watched the game our offense moved the ball up and down the field and used many different receivers than in week 1. Yes, we have RZ problems that I believe will get worked out, to me an encouraging sign was that we used many different receivers last week, Thomas and Sellers dropped a few and I will not make excuses, Zorn made a bad call in the RZ.[/quote]

Good points! But he got alot of credit when the offense was rolling last year, so you gotta take the good with the bad. Personel isnt always gonna be ideal to your gameplan, you gotta play with the hand your dealt. If these coaches were so innovative shouldnt they be able to form an attack based on what talent is available? If Thomas and Sellers catch those balls, Tana doesnt fumble, and the debacle of the RB pass(that he is now defending the call) we wouldnt be having this conversation most likely. We did move the ball like you say, so the potential is there.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Bozzy;593549]Absurd. Jim Zorn's offense ran up and down the field, and just didnt score because of MISTAKES by the players. I don't recall Zorn dropping any TD passes Sunday....which Devin Thomas and Mike Sellers both did. Zorn didn't fumble in the red zone either, that was Santana.
Calling for Zorn to be fired is not appropriate. His playcalling produced several long drives, and if the players didnt commit stupid mistakes, we would have scored TDs.

We won because of our D and Zorn.[/quote]


Zorn doesn't even have clock management down at this point. Snyder put him in a bad position and it looks to me like he isn't far from cracking.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;593497]If Fassel is so good why is he coaching in the UFL? Ditto for Billick. If the Redskins were to make a coaching change, my choices would be Tony Dungy or Cam Cameron.[/quote]

I really don't care where they are working now. Both of their resumes crush Zorn's.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;593554]I really don't care where they are working now. Both of their resumes crush Zorn's.[/quote]

Let's give Zorn a chance, you can't judge him after 2 games into the season.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;593557]Let's give Zorn a chance, you can't judge him after 2 games into the season.[/quote]


I am judging him on the last 10 games and the pre-season. After we were 6-2 the league started making adjustments and Zorn has not shown the ability to counter-punch the league to date.

He deserves a chance but he is just dealing with the wrong city and fanbase to learn how to be a playcaller and head coach while on the job.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;593547]I didn't say or infer that he is a colossal failure (not sure where you are pulling that from), I said that this is the wrong town for a coach to learn on the job.

I would argue that the offense has taken a step back from Gibbs 2.0 and that an experienced offensive coach and playcaller would be scoring more points with this team.[/quote]

Or Zorn as the playcaller and someone like a Fassel to be the headcoach and say "No Jim, we're not going to run an option pass on 3rd down in the red zone. Pick another play"

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=SmootSmack;593571]Or Zorn as the playcaller and someone like a Fassel to be the headcoach and say "No Jim, we're not going to run an option pass on 3rd down in the red zone. Pick another play"[/quote]

Maybe Danny Smith can have playcalling veto, too!

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

Hey, I wonder, is that Steve Spurrier guy still available...<no, that's too bad>...well, maybe we can at least get that Heath Shuler guy back in pads...<huh, u say he was elected to WHAT?>...hmmm, i guess we are stuck with no better option, then

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

I really wonder what Gruden would do with this team? or atleast I have been wondering lately. Defense is pretty much set. Now if DS goes into rebuild mode at the end of this season I would like to see the Skins change to a 3-4 defense.

but Gruden would already have decent WR's, decent RB's to pick from, All he would need to focus on is getting a franchise QB and picking up O-lineman in the draft.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=SBXVII;593694]I really wonder what Gruden would do with this team? or atleast I have been wondering lately. Defense is pretty much set. Now if DS goes into rebuild mode at the end of this season I would like to see the Skins change to a 3-4 defense.

but Gruden would already have decent WR's, decent RB's to pick from, All he would need to focus on is getting a franchise QB and picking up O-lineman in the draft.[/quote]

Going into an uncapped year, I don't see rebuild mode next year. I would be fine with Gruden. He is from Holmgren's tree so the verbage should be similar.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

I like what Gruden is doing on MNF, I kind of prefer he stay there

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=SmootSmack;593701]I like what Gruden is doing on MNF, I kind of prefer he stay there[/quote]

Ditto.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=SBXVII;593694]I really wonder what Gruden would do with this team? or atleast I have been wondering lately. Defense is pretty much set. Now if DS goes into rebuild mode at the end of this season I would like to see the Skins change to a 3-4 defense.

but Gruden would already have decent WR's, decent RB's to pick from, All he would need to focus on is getting a franchise QB and picking up O-lineman in the draft.[/quote]

I've been thinking that myself. Gruden does very well for himself when he inherits teams that already have talent and structure. He's a mean SOB too. Who knows what will happen? We'll all just have to sit back and let this all play itself through. The question I ask to myself is, who would I rather have in the front office, 53Fan, CDRedskinsRule, or SFREDSKIN? I'd take the job myself if this cubicle wasn't so fruitful. Besides, I'd just draft fat ass O-line men, D tackles, and make the Skins a defensive team. Lord knows that can't work.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

I think it's a little too early to give up on Zorn and Campbell. I've been critical of both, but I saw progress this past game. The Red Zone offense is horrible, much improvement needed there, both play calling and execution. The play calling and execution outside of the Red Zone was much better. The Skins only punted the ball twice. Moved the ball into the Red Zone four times. Had a very good pass-run mix on early downs.

Jason Campbell obviously was conscience of making quicker decisions. He stepped up into the pocket and took off running when nothing was there. No turnovers except for the Moss fumble. If the team can convert more Red Zone opportunities, I think they will be fine.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

My God you are a trip Tramp. That's right, trip Tramp.....say that 3 times fast. Some of these posts are depressing as s**t but you always find a way to make me laugh. To you my friend. :food-smil

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

I do what I can. It's hard to drink Kool Aid without Vodka.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

Holmgrem or Shannahan would be a better transition. Still I don't like the record of coaches who have won a Super Bowl with a previous team. If anything though I'm starting to see why Jim Mora Jr wanted Greg Knapp instead of Zorn as his OC. In fact I'm starting to wish that Jim Mora Jr. had accepted the Redskins job.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

It's always fun to speculate, but we are 1-1 and should win next week. If we catch a ball or two we're most likely not having this conversation. Regardless, I too was pissed at the constant first down runs in the red zone and the Halfback Pass call which was executed really badly. But let's give Jim Zorn a little room here.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Bozzy;593549]Absurd. Jim Zorn's offense ran up and down the field, and just didnt score because of MISTAKES by the players. I don't recall Zorn dropping any TD passes Sunday....which Devin Thomas and Mike Sellers both did. Zorn didn't fumble in the red zone either, that was Santana.
Calling for Zorn to be fired is not appropriate. His playcalling produced several long drives, and if the players didnt commit stupid mistakes, we would have scored TDs.

We won because of our D and Zorn.[/quote]

A point well taken Bozzy. But that would make to much sense for some our fans to figure out.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

I still have faith in Zorn. I'd even give him a 3rd year. If we gotta vote on someone to take over the team I would have to choose Shanahan.