Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=jdlea;638036]Or that there are reasonable replacements at other positions. Fred Smoot played decent while Rogers was on the bench. They clearly don't think Moore can come in and be effective if he hasn't at least taken over a series. IMO, they need to start Moore and see what Landry can do at SS because it doesn't seem like FS is working out.[/quote]

I cannot imagine see Smoot playing FS; he might have the skills but he definitely doesn't have the speed to be FS.. As for Moore, I hoped he would come in to play as FS majority of the game but it never has happened; like you said, it's obviously that the coaches doesn't think Moore can do it.. We are strong at SS but literally we are one player (Moore) injured away to have no player who can play FS (that is unless if you count Landry as FS)..

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=jdlea;638036]They clearly don't think Moore can come in and be effective if he hasn't at least taken over a series. IMO, they need to start Moore and see what Landry can do at SS because it doesn't seem like FS is working out.[/quote]

No YOU don't think the coaches have faith in Moore because YOU don't have faith in Landry.

[quote=GridIron26;638052].. As for Moore, I hoped he would come in to play as FS majority of the game but it never has happened; like you said, it's obviously that the coaches doesn't think Moore can do it.. We are strong at SS but literally we are one player (Moore) injured away to have no player who can play FS (that is unless if you count Landry as FS)..[/quote]

Huh? The coaches love Moore.
Just because you guys don't think Landry is a good FS doesn't mean the coaching staff agrees with you.
And the reason you think Moore can't be good is because you think Landry isn't good.
BTW-The Moore, the guy you think can't play, had a great Int that game; he got stripped later on but that doesn't mean he isn't a good FS just lacks ball security as a runner.

And he's been playing in the cobra since last year.

Here's actual quotes from coaches about Kareem Moore:

[quote]Blache praised the performance of rookie safety Kareem Moore Sunday. He covered some ground at free safety and delivered a few big hits, including one on Chad Johnson. He expects to play him more down the stretch to get valuable experience and is hopeful that the fifth-round pick, now over his knee problems, can be a bigger part of next season.


[url]http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q...8269c,1259e2cd[/url][/quote]

[quote]Rookie safety Kareem Moore continues to earn high marks and could play a substantial role Saturday. He appears to be recovered from the knee problems that hindered him early in camp -- Moore is coming off surgery -- and is practicing well. Zorn praised his body control and the efficiency of his movement, calling him a "tremendous athlete."

[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080703463.html[/url][/quote]

Jasckson on Kareem Moore:

Quote:
[quote]Jackson: "He has the same attributes as LaRon. They're guys who can go sideline to sideline, and he's probably got the best ball skills of everybody in the defensive backfield besides DeAngelo [Hall].
....Jackson: "Aw, yeah. You throw a ball, he'll just pluck it out of the air. And the thing about him is, he was hurt when we got him. He didn't have any OTAs, didn't even practice til the middle of training camp. So I think people'll be surprised with what they see out of Kareem this year now that he's had a full offseason AND got some experience in games last year. He looks a million times better than he did last year -- we've got a pretty good group."

[url=http://blog.redskins.com/2009/05/26/...ies/#continued]Redskins Blog -- The Official Blog of the Washington Redskins[/url][/quote]

[quote]“I didn’t know Kareem was as fast as he was,” Horton said. “He can really run and he can really put a good pop on you, too.”

[url=http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/Moore_Making_the_Transition_31424.jsp]Moore Making the Transition[/url][/quote]

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

^^ Chill out dude, I wasn't bashing Moore or Landry, nor did I say that coaches didn't like Moore.. Please reread my earlier post, I said that I hoped that Moore would be able to play as FS most of the game through out the year but it seems as if coaches didn't [B]think[/B] that Moore was able to do that.. And the fact is, it didn't happen; using Landry as an excuse why Moore isn't playing much is pretty dumb.. If Moore is actually that good, then I'm sure Gray or Blache would move Landry to SS then both of our safeties would have speed.. Unfortunately, Blache didn't do that and he must have a reason not to do it..

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=GridIron26;638266]^^ Chill out dude,[/quote]

I'm sorry; i didn't intend to have an attacking tone.
I just distinguish between what you think and what the coaches have actually said.

[quote] I wasn't bashing Moore or Landry, nor did I say that coaches didn't like Moore.. Please reread my earlier post, I said that I hoped that Moore would be able to play as FS most of the game through out the year but it seems as if coaches didn't [B]think[/B] that Moore was able to do that[/quote]

Well when you say that:
-Moore should play FS
- LaRon should play SS
- And you view the fact that Moore didn't play FS for 'most of the game' throughout the year as i sign that coaches don't think he's able.

You're saying that

1) Landry isn't good enough at FS and needs to be moved to SS
2) Because Kareem doesn't get alot of playing time at FS that the coaches don't think he's good

[quote]...using Landry as an excuse why Moore isn't playing much is pretty dumb.. If.[/quote]

The fact that Landry is our starting FS isn't an 'excuse' its a fact.
When 1 player starts his back-up doesn't.
Its pretty simple, i don't understand how that is 'dumb.'
For someone talking about about 'chillin out' maybe you shouldn't use words like 'dumb' in your post i could just as easily say the same thing about your logic.
And Moore does play how else did he get an interception?
He plays in the Cobra/Big nickel packages and he plays some Cover 2 S.

[quote]Moore is actually that good, then I'm sure Gray or Blache would move Landry to SS then both of our safeties would have speed.. Unfortunately, Blache didn't do that and he must have a reason not to do it.[/quote]

Why would they move Landry to SS?
You said that you aren't bashing Landry yet you keep trying to demote him to SS.
The only player good enough to move Landry to SS was the late ST21 rip.
And as good as the coaching staff think Moore is he's not ST21.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=30gut;638288]I'm sorry; i didn't intend to have an attacking tone.
I just distinguish between what you think and what the coaches have actually said.



Well when you say that:
-Moore should play FS
- LaRon should play SS
- And you view the fact that Moore didn't play FS for 'most of the game' throughout the year as i sign that coaches don't think he's able.

You're saying that

1) Landry isn't good enough at FS and needs to be moved to SS
2) Because Kareem doesn't get alot of playing time at FS that the coaches don't think he's good



The fact that Landry is our starting FS isn't an 'excuse' its a fact.
When 1 player starts his back-up doesn't.
Its pretty simple, i don't understand how that is 'dumb.'
For someone talking about about 'chillin out' maybe you shouldn't use words like 'dumb' in your post i could just as easily say the same thing about your logic.
And Moore does play how else did he get an interception?
He plays in the Cobra/Big nickel packages and he plays some Cover 2 S.



Why would they move Landry to SS?
You said that you aren't bashing Landry yet you keep trying to demote him to SS.
The only player good enough to move Landry to SS was the late ST21 rip.
And as good as the coaching staff think Moore is he's not ST21.[/quote]

dawan?

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;637540]Threads tend to hit a wall after a while, I think this one is there.[/quote]
We've just busted through that one and apparently have a whole new room to work with at this point.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

I'd just ask people to think of it this way: how many safeties would you trade Landry for right now, today? Remember he was the 6th overall pick. I think if there are more than 10 guys you can think of he's a bust because that puts him well outside his draft status. I don't follow enough teams to name every guy I'd rather have but I easily get to 10. For example I can't think of Oakland's good safety but I've watched him a few games and would take him over Landry is a second...that's a dude that lays the would instead of flailing his body on the ground or glancing off the ball-carrier.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

30gut; I believe that it's already believed that Landry is better fitted as SS instead of FS, only because of his aggressiveness.. Landry loves to be violent on the field; the only problem is by being as a FS, the player must be patient - and patience does not appear to be something Landry posses.. By just moving him to SS does not mean demoting him, it is just a changing position - there is nothing bad about that; in fact I think Landry would be more happy at that position instead of FS because now then he would get to be closer to scrimmage of line, getting into QBs' faces and disrupting running plays.. Which is opposite of task for FS..

Yes Moore did play and will play like usual; but my point is that Moore did not play [B]most[/B] of game, like whole lot more than half of game.. But what I (and few others) was hoping was that Moore will become full-time starter as FS.. But it did not happen, that was the only thing I was trying to say..

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=GridIron26;638456]30gut; I believe that it's already believed that Landry is better fitted as SS instead of FS, only because of his aggressiveness.. Landry loves to be violent on the field; the only problem is by being as a FS, the player must be patient - and patience does not appear to be something Landry posses.. By just moving him to SS does not mean demoting him, it is just a changing position - there is nothing bad about that; in fact I think Landry would be more happy at that position instead of FS because now then he would get to be closer to scrimmage of line, getting into QBs' faces and disrupting running plays.. Which is opposite of task for FS..

Yes Moore did play and will play like usual; but my point is that Moore did not play [B]most[/B] of game, like whole lot more than half of game.. But what I (and few others) was hoping was that Moore will become full-time starter as FS.. But it did not happen, that was the only thing I was trying to say..[/quote]

I agree. I would love for Moore to be able to [B]start[/B] at FS to the coaches satisfaction. I don't see Landry going to SS as a demotion, but more of a chance for him to be a star. The whole idea of drafting him was to play him at SS with ST at FS thus giving us the best Safety tantum in the NFL. He plays FS because he's the most talented Safety we have, but if we had someone the coaches had as much confidence in to cover as large an area of the field as they feel Landry can, Landry could use his aggressiveness in a much more positive and productive way at SS. A lot of us were hoping Moore would be that guy. Maybe he still will be.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=53Fan;638459]I agree. I would love for Moore to be able to [B]start[/B] at FS to the coaches satisfaction. I don't see Landry going to SS as a demotion, but more of a chance for him to be a star. The whole idea of drafting him was to play him at SS with ST at FS thus giving us the best Safety tantum in the NFL. He plays FS because he's the most talented Safety we have, but if we had someone the coaches had as much confidence in to cover as large an area of the field as they feel Landry can, Landry could use his aggressiveness in a much more positive and productive way at SS. A lot of us were hoping Moore would be that guy. Maybe he still will be.[/quote]

Exactly my thoughts.. I don't see how by saying something like this means bashing Landry and/or Moore..

I would not oppose to the idea of signing a starter FS from free agent after this season to push Moore, put FS spot up for grabs and then Moore and the free agent FS will battle for it; few names worth mentioned would be OJ Otogew from STL Rams, Nick Collins from Packers, Antoine Betha from Colts (I have no idea whether if he's good at coverage or not), and even Ryan Clark from Steelers will be free agent after this season, as well.. There are couple of more.. Although there are possibilities that some of the names just mentioned probably would be franchised or signed to an extension contract..

If we sign Ryan Clark, it would be just to fill in the gap - he will be 29 years old.. Although by doing this would give us a chance to draft one of top safeties within few years..

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=The Goat;638441]I'd just ask people to think of it this way: how many safeties would you trade Landry for right now, today? Remember he was the 6th overall pick. I think if there are more than 10 guys you can think of he's a bust because that puts him well outside his draft status. I don't follow enough teams to name every guy I'd rather have but I easily get to 10. For example I can't think of Oakland's good safety but I've watched him a few games and would take him over Landry is a second...that's a dude that lays the would instead of flailing his body on the ground or glancing off the ball-carrier.[/quote]

i'm right there with you, thats exactly how i see it, but i do think he has one more year before it's official and i hope he get's someone to get through to him, i think his main problem is the extreme lack of disciplne

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

I have a question about landry: obviously he has the raw talent to be amazing, but simply gets fooled too much. I know it is possible that he will figure things out, but how likely is it? I have only been following football for about 5-6 years now and dont feel like I have seen enough evidence to say that it is likely that even though he hasnt figured it out in his first 3 seasons, there is still hope. Can anyone give me a few examples to say otherwise (defensive back evidence please)?

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=GridIron26;638456]30gut; I believe that it's already believed that Landry is better fitted as SS instead of FS, only because of his aggressiveness.. Landry loves to be violent on the field; the only problem is by being as a FS, the player must be patient - and patience does not appear to be something Landry posses..[/quote]

I hear what you're saying and i somewhat agree; Landry is aggressive and does like to make the big hit.
But i disagree that Landry lacks the patience.
I think people are over reacting, as the usual, to a couple (recent) mistakes as indicative of his usual play.
The same mistakes that any DB makes, he got beat.
But, in my observations Landry rarely gets beat.
Can you recall Landry getting beat other times this year?

Not that it makes it okay; but he got beat playing Cover 2 which is coverage we don't use often, a coverage that has different responsibilities then Landry's normal Cover 1/3 deep middle coverage.

[quote]Yes Moore did play and will play like usual; but my point is that Moore did not play [B]most[/B] of game, like whole lot more than half of game.. But what I (and few others) was hoping was that Moore will become full-time starter as FS.. But it did not happen, that was the only thing I was trying to say..[/quote]

I guess it depends on which you consider the more important position.
I think most coaches consider the FS more important then SS and therefore put their best S at FS.
The only way i would start Moore as FS is if he was the best S on the team.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

Just how much SS did Landry play yesterday? There is no question that he seemed more effective/menacing near the line... Just the thought of Landry shooting the gap to blitz has to give the QB the jitters.

Just a thought: I also have the sense that Landry craves more "direct involvement" on each play, as opposed to the longer distances he covers at FS often without being able to lay the wood on someone.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

I never really paid attention to it, because I forgot during the game that LL was our "starting" SS yesterday. So who played the majority of snaps at FS? Doughty and Landry both seemed to be on the field nearly every single play, so perhaps LL didnt really play SS that much.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

The bottom line is that Landry is our best FS and SS. So how would getting rid of him help the team? We would trade him for what? 2nd round pick? Probably lower and then we would have to add safety to the list of needs.

How about we coach him up and let him play his natural position (SS) more often. Taylor was doing the same things in 2006 and he came back to be an All-Pro in 07.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;639763]The bottom line is that Landry is our best FS and SS. So how would getting rid of him help the team? We would trade him for what? 2nd round pick? Probably lower and then we would have to add safety to the list of needs.

How about we coach him up and let him play his natural position (SS) more often. Taylor was doing the same things in 2006 and he came back to be an All-Pro in 07.[/quote]

Everyone seems to forget ST went through his share of struggles in year 3 before finally seeming to put it all together in year 4.

Landry has too much talent and potential to be looking to trade him. Yes he has his issues in coverage, but put the guy close to the line and let him body rock and he's one of the better strong safeties around.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

i blame Jackson the safties coach

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

Give Landry one more year. He played well yesterday...but they were using him differently.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

Landry needs to Mature thats all

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

I'm not as worried about his maturity as a player as his maturity as a person. Yesterday, he looked like he was blaming Doughty for not getting over on one of the slants to Mcfadden. He had a rep at LSU for being moody w/his teamates. His body language during games is bad, its not just the celebrating, he doesn't seem in tune w/the team.

Jerry Gray made a diplomatic comment about him to that effect last night.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=pg86;639780]Landry needs to Mature thats all[/quote]

even thought he go toasted a few times yesterday he wasn't the worst i have seen him and he never once (that i saw) got up and mugged the crowd and sidelines after a play maybe someone is finally getting through to him

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

I got to say it sucks to watch how great Darrell Revis is on the NY Jets. We picked up Laron Landry eight picks earlier -- I think Revis has been a *little* better...

Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but we already had a star safety at that time (he died later). In addition -- Adrian Peterson, Patrick Willis, Marshawn Lynch -- all would have been nice.

[QUOTE]1 Oakland Raiders JaMarcus Russell Quarterback LSU
2 Detroit Lions Calvin Johnson Wide Receiver Georgia Tech
3 Cleveland Browns [B][U]Joe Thomas[/U][/B]† Offensive Tackle Wisconsin
4 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Gaines Adams Defensive End Clemson
5 Arizona Cardinals Levi Brown Offensive Tackle Penn State
6 Washington Redskins LaRon Landry Safety LSU
7 Minnesota Vikings [U][B]Adrian Peterson[/B][/U]† Running back Oklahoma
8 Atlanta Falcons (from Houston) [9] Jamaal Anderson Defensive End Arkansas
9 Miami Dolphins Ted Ginn, Jr. Wide Receiver Ohio State
10 Houston Texans (from Atlanta) [9] Amobi Okoye Defensive Tackle Louisville
11 San Francisco 49ers [B][U]Patrick Willis[/U][/B]† Linebacker Ole Miss
12 Buffalo Bills [B][U]Marshawn Lync[/U][/B]h† Running back California
13 St. Louis Rams Adam Carriker Defensive End Nebraska
14 New York Jets (from Carolina) [10] [B][U]Darrelle Revis[/U][/B]† Cornerback Pittsburgh

[B][U]bold[/U][/B] is already a ProBowler..
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NFL_Draft]2007 NFL Draft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
[/QUOTE]

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

well in landrys defense, he has been playing out of his natural position. hopefully with the new regime he will be moved and show good improvement.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=ethat001;657847]I got to say it sucks to watch how great Darrell Revis is on the NY Jets. We picked up Laron Landry eight picks earlier -- I think Revis has been a *little* better...

Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but we already had a star safety at that time (he died later). In addition -- Adrian Peterson, Patrick Willis, [B]Marshawn Lynch -[/B]- all would have been nice.[/quote]

Lynch is pretty much done and overrated to begin with. I think in his pro bowl season he averaged something like 3.9 yards per carry and his best season had a 4.0 ypc. Thats good but not the type of guy you send to the pro bowl.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=ethat001;657847]I got to say it sucks to watch how great Darrell Revis is on the NY Jets. We picked up Laron Landry eight picks earlier -- I think Revis has been a *little* better...

Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but we already had a star safety at that time (he died later). In addition -- Adrian Peterson, Patrick Willis, Marshawn Lynch -- all would have been nice.[/quote]

Calvin Johnson has been a ProBowler already.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=WaldSkins;657882]Calvin Johnson has been a ProBowler already.[/quote]

he was an alternate

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

Landry is not a bust. He is a superb player that is playing out of position. I guarentee you that someone like GW would know how to use him. Man if we still had ST, our secondary would be special, but we don't so it is just good. A good safety is hard to come by so if you think that unloading a guy like LL is a good idea then you really need to rethink your football IQ. He may not be the best but he is far from bad.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=Angry;657970]Landry is not a bust. He is a superb player that is playing out of position. I guarentee you that someone like GW would know how to use him. Man if we still had ST, our secondary would be special, but we don't so it is just good. A good safety is hard to come by so if you think that unloading a guy like LL is a good idea then you really need to rethink your football IQ. He may not be the best but he is far from bad.[/quote]

I'd like to see him play under the helpful wings of Haslett.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=Angry;657970]Landry is not a bust. He is a superb player that is playing out of position. I guarentee you that someone like GW would know how to use him. Man if we still had ST, our secondary would be special, but we don't so it is just good. A good safety is hard to come by so if you think that unloading a guy like LL is a good idea then you really need to rethink your football IQ. He may not be the best but he is far from bad.[/quote]

I wonder if it's the same thing that many have reported on ST.. too much thinking and not enough playing

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=Angry;657970]if you think that unloading a guy like LL is a good idea then you really need to rethink your football IQ.[/quote]

Speaking of football IQ.... Landry has none.

He has the mental capacity of a gerbil.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=wilsowilso;657973]Speaking of football IQ.... Landry has none.

He has the mental capacity of a gerbil.[/quote]

Thats why he needs to move closer to the line, that way he wont be getting beat on double moves.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

Playing outside his natural position is not the problem w/ Landry. His issues are the following:

1) Cannot consistently tackle...often missing his "target" by several feet EVEN when playing close to the LOS.

2) Sometimes avoiding contact altogether. The notion Laron is a big hit, big play guy is the biggest myth in Redskins history. He plays scared part of the time, which is a mortal sin in football, not to mention the safety position.

3) He regularly makes huge costly mistakes, like blatant and cowardly cheap shots, which brings shame to the team and the sport in general.

4) His behavior has been ridiculous...the extended celebrating and antics after making a routine play.

5) At the end of the day to be a great safety you have to put the fear of God into WRs and RBs and create turnovers...Landry does neither. He has a tiny handful of turnovers in his career and I bet if you took a poll not a single player in the game would say Landry is intimidating.

I'll be very disappointed in the new regime if Landry is retained.

And for the sake of all that is decent please don't anyone ever try to draw comparison between Landry and Sean beyond the fact they both played in Washington.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

Goat, i agree with all of your points. i've felt Landry was mis-used for a long time, but he makes many of the same mistakes even when he's playing SS. Since Steve Jackson is staying, i really think Landry will be retained, although he shouldnt be.

I think if Ed Reed retires, we should try to trade Landry to the Ravens. I'm sure his brother would push hard for it with the coaching staff there. I'd ask for a 3rd, but i'd take a 4th.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

Lol..You guys really think Landry will be cut or traded after 3yrs...Not going to happen

Playing him at SS is like playing Orakpo at LB, doesnt make much sense..

He was chosen in the Top 10 for a reason, hes talented, speed, size and bigplay ability.

He needs to be coached up, he got worse as the team got worse, & the coaching got

worse.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

I've been saying all along that we should wait and see what a different coach would do for Landry -- but then they retained safeties coach Steve Jackson.

Oh well, maybe Haslett can set him straight.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

it really really really....takes guts to call somebody a coward on the internet

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

Landry is not a bust.
He had a down year with a couple of bad games.
As with everything else Redskins related alot of people are over reacting.

2-3 Bad games doesn't out weigh an 3 year career.

Landry certainly has many areas to improve.

His work ethic and focus and his overall commitment to being a great player.
Meaning being a leader, coming to offseason activities, watching film.

Also, i think one of his biggest problems is that he's bulked up too much.
I think if he slimmed down much like ST21 did in his final season he would be better able to command center field as a FS.
Agility and change of direction and quickness are all more important then bulk in a modern FS especially one that plays alot of single deep.

Modern FS need to be able to move like CB look at the body type of some of the good ones Darren Sharper, Bethea, Ed Reed, Jarius Byrd.

Come in to camp slim and trim ready with better focus and more dedication to becoming a great player and a better leader.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

[quote=terpsez11;658495]it really really really....takes guts to call somebody a coward on the internet[/quote]


LOL! So true.

Landry will be fine. We desperately needed a coaching staff that can develop and mentor players. Not the past Ceratto created staff that was under performing.
I am hoping the new staff will correct the technique and tendency issues that Landry, Rogers and few others in the secondary have. Over time this can be corrected.
Before this past season Landry throughout his career has been an above average safety. No reason to believe last season was not an aberration.

Re: Landry is now a bust!
 

I'm still not sure what I think... I had such high hopes for this guy, I hope next year is a big bounce back!