Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=tryfuhl;653466]This is true, but could he really be much worse than Batiste or Jones?[/quote]

I would have kept him over Batiste for sure. I didn't have a problem with Jones as our LT once Samuels went down. Bridges should have been starting at RT over Heyer, in my opinion.

Still, as serviceable as I think Bridges could have been with us I do believe Warner is making him look much much better than he is.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;653467]I would have kept him over Batiste for sure. I didn't have a problem with Jones as our LT once Samuels went down. Bridges should have been starting at RT over Heyer, in my opinion.

Still, as serviceable as I think Bridges could have been with us I do believe Warner is making him look much much better than he is.[/quote]yeah that's true.. jones was a street pick up, I neglected that.. I probably would've kept bridges over williams and def a possibility over heyer

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;653467]I would have kept him over Batiste for sure. I didn't have a problem with Jones as our LT once Samuels went down. Bridges should have been starting at RT over Heyer, in my opinion.

[B]Still, as serviceable as I think Bridges could have been with us I do believe Warner is making him look much much better than he is.[/B][/quote]

I understand the argument that Warner makes him look better. Still, where was Bridges while we went through a nightmare of trying to plug in nobodies? We really could have used Bridges.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=12thMan;653465]Well said. I think people forget that sometimes. We look players released from our team, see them performing well elsewhere and assume the Skins made a bad personnel move.[/quote]

For some reason guys like Ryan Clark & Antonio Pierce come to mind.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=Longtimefan;653473]For some reason guys like Ryan Clark & Antonio Pierce come to mind.[/quote]

Pierce has had some good years in NY for sure, but he's been MIA this year and wasn't all that great last year.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;653467]I would have kept him over Batiste for sure. I didn't have a problem with Jones as our LT once Samuels went down. Bridges should have been starting at RT over Heyer, in my opinion.

Still, as serviceable as I think Bridges could have been with us I do believe Warner is making him look much much better than he is.[/quote]
I did not really notice his play but they could also be providing him a little help.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

Looks like the Bills are wanting to interview everyone....

Grimm:
[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/11/bills-want-to-interview-russ-grimm/]Bills want to interview Russ Grimm | ProFootballTalk.com[/url]

Schottenheimer:
[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/11/bills-ask-to-talk-to-brian-schottenheimer/]Bills ask to talk to Brian Schottenheimer | ProFootballTalk.com[/url]

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

I think B Schott has been the leading candidate for a while now, and he called a great game on Saturday which I doubt went unrecognized by the Bills. Both he and Grimm would be strong choices

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;653485]I think B Schott has been the leading candidate for a while now, and he called a great game on Saturday which I doubt went unrecognized by the Bills. Both he and Grimm would be strong choices[/quote]

I think Shottenheimer is a no brainer. I even wanted the same situation here with the Shottenheimer's like we are getting with the Shanahan's. I guess now that I'm hearing more either family would have been decent. I was just hoping one of the dads would HC for a short while leading into their sons taking over.

Grimm I would wonder about. He's definitly one of the best OL coach's. I, as an owner, would want to know more about whether he's calling the plays or not. I guess it's not a requirement to call the plays and he could pick up an excellent OC to do that.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=12thMan;653476]Pierce has had some good years in NY for sure, but he's been MIA this year and wasn't all that great last year.[/quote]
so that's a number of good and serviceable years.. we've kept linebackers past their day before

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;653462]There's also a big difference between Bridges blocking for Kurt Warner and Bridges blocking for Jason Campbell. And this really isn't a knock on Campbell as much as it is praise for Warner. Dude is just redonkulous. His pocket awareness and ability to get rid of the ball at just the right moment is uncanny. He can make even the most routine of linemen look like all-pros.[/quote]

You brought up the part people dont acknowledge, the QB makes the line better and the line makes the QB better. People want to blame all JC's problems on the line but if JC had better pocket presence and got the ball out faster he'd make the line look a lot better and they'd make him look better too.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=irish;653583]You brought up the part people dont acknowledge, the QB makes the line better and the line makes the QB better. People want to blame all JC's problems on the line but if JC had better pocket presence and got the ball out faster he'd make the line look a lot better and they'd make him look better too.[/quote]

True, but we still have to acknowledge our OL was one of the worst in the league. When your QB gets blasted on a 3 step drop semi-regularly, that's a problem that is out of his control.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;653462]There's also a big difference between Bridges blocking for Kurt Warner and Bridges blocking for Jason Campbell. And this really isn't a knock on Campbell as much as it is praise for Warner. Dude is just redonkulous. His pocket awareness and ability to get rid of the ball at just the right moment is uncanny. He can make even the most routine of linemen look like all-pros.[/quote]

Yeah I'm def going to have to agree w/ you. And it's a knock on JC cause he can't feel the rush like Warner can. The great QB's just have that knack. Warner just showed why he is a HOF QB. He just ripped apart a damn good GB secondary. The guy is just a true stud and I can't believe he's even thinking about quitting.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

One thing about "pocket presence", if you have the same line every down, you develop a knowledge of how each OL guy is going to handle their responsibilities. One of the big problems with the shuffling that we did is that Campbell, and the backs who had to pick up blitzers could not comfortably develop an idea of who would pick up which defender. Cohesion along the OL is as important as the quality of any individual player. Campbell certainly missed opportunities, and stepped up when he should have rolled out etc etc, but the OL flux we had this year would have given the best quarterbacks difficulties.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;653592]Yeah I'm def going to have to agree w/ you. And it's a knock on JC cause he can't feel the rush like Warner can. The great QB's just have that knack. Warner just showed why he is a HOF QB. He just ripped apart a damn good GB secondary. The guy is just a true stud and I can't believe he's even thinking about quitting.[/quote]

5 TDs and 4 incompletions is just mind-boggling. Especially when a) he didn't have Boldin and b) the Packers have Charles Woodson. And I don't think Leinart is a bad QB but the gap between him and Warner is staggering.

It's crazy to think we may have never witnessed any of this if Trent Green hadn't gotten hurt and forced Warner into action. Just makes you wonder about all the 3rd string/practice squad QBs over the years that might have been in the same boat

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

Warner was in such a zone it wasn't even funny. And to think how well Rodgers played too, but Warner still upstaged him - amazing.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;653635]5 TDs and 4 incompletions is just mind-boggling. Especially when a) he didn't have Boldin and b) the Packers have Charles Woodson. And I don't think Leinart is a bad QB but the gap between him and Warner is staggering.

It's crazy to think we may have never witnessed any of this if Trent Green hadn't gotten hurt and forced Warner into action. Just makes you wonder about all the 3rd string/practice squad QBs over the years that might have been in the same boat[/quote]
I wonder if he would have had 7 kids if he was still a bag boy?

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;653599]One thing about "pocket presence", if you have the same line every down, you develop a knowledge of how each OL guy is going to handle their responsibilities. [B]One of the big problems with the shuffling that we did is that Campbell[/B], and the backs who had to pick up blitzers could not comfortably develop an idea of who would pick up which defender. Cohesion along the OL is as important as the quality of any individual player. Campbell certainly missed opportunities, and stepped up when he should have rolled out etc etc, but the OL flux we had this year would have given the best quarterbacks difficulties.[/quote]Yep, you've hit on the biggest issue here. In Campbell's case, it's not really pocket presence vs. not pocket presence (all staticstics show that Campbell is average to below average in these respects going back to college. he's obviously no JaMarcus Russell back there), it's the wild week-to-week fluctuations in what the line can and can't do.

In Warner's case, neither Bridges nor Mike Gandy is a better left tackle option than, say, Levi Jones or Stephon Heyer. But because the rest of the line does a fairly good job (particularly Lutui and I think Sendlein and Wells are underrated), Warner can compensate for having a weak pair of pass blocking tackles with his great feel for the offense and a quick release.

If Bugel hadn't fallen in love with a guy who obviously wasn't NFL caliber (Will Montgomery), and we had gone with Rinehart immediately, things may have been different in terms of the line. Injuries forced our hand at RG, but we also spent the entire month of October just not playing our best line, which is perhaps the one thing that happened to this offense that can't be pinned on non-coaching related factors.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=Mattyk;653638]Warner was in such a zone it wasn't even funny. And to think how well Rodgers played too, but Warner still upstaged him - amazing.[/quote]Maybe the thing that's hardest to understate is that he (and Big Ben as well) made the 2nd ranked Packers D look like the Lions D.

And that's a legitimate 2nd ranking as well. Not a Redskins-type inflated ranking.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;653462]There's also a big difference between Bridges blocking for Kurt Warner and Bridges blocking for Jason Campbell. And this really isn't a knock on Campbell as much as it is praise for Warner. Dude is just redonkulous. His pocket awareness and ability to get rid of the ball at just the right moment is uncanny. He can make even the most routine of linemen look like all-pros.[/quote]When Warner is at his best, pass rushers can't seem to get anywhere near him. But there was a time when he was thought to be a flash-in-the-pan product of the Martz/Vermeil offense, when Warner was fumbling 20-30 times in a season. Certainly, at some point, Warner's offense was such a chain around his neck that he wasn't feeling the pressure the way an NFL quarterback should have been.

So, with a guy that's been on both extremes, perhaps there are external reasons that the same player can look clueless in the pocket, and can be excellent there, both for long periods of time, over the same career.

Anyway, I think you are right on here that you don't get to see the weakness of the Arizona tackles because Warner always seems to be two steps ahead of the defense (and because they are protected in the scheme). I just think there's a reason that Warner is so far ahead right now that goes beyond, "well, that's just Kurt Warner".

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;653656]Maybe the thing that's hardest to understate is that he (and Big Ben as well) made the 2nd ranked Packers D look like the Lions D.

And that's a legitimate 2nd ranking as well. Not a Redskins-type inflated ranking.[/quote]2nd in Yds allowed, 26th in scoring. GBs D is solid, but before we put the pedestal up too high let's consider the teams they faced this year: Lions-2X, Bears-2X, Rams, Browns, Bucs, 49ers, Seahawks, Cards (with playoff seeding locked up). That's 10 games against some poor offensive teams. When they played teams that could score: Bengals - 31, Vikings - 30, Vikings - 38, Dallas - 7 (warms my heart), Ravens - 14 Steelers - 37.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;653663]2nd in Yds allowed, 26th in scoring. GBs D is solid, but before we put the pedestal up too high let's consider the teams they faced this year: Lions-2X, Bears-2X, Rams, Browns, Bucs, 49ers, Seahawks, Cards (with playoff seeding locked up). That's 10 games against some poor offensive teams. When they played teams that could score: Bengals - 31, Vikings - 30, Vikings - 38, Dallas - 7 (warms my heart), Ravens - 14 Steelers - 37.[/quote]Interesting. I'll do some research to see why there's such an abnormal discrepancy between yards allowed and points allowed because the two generally correlate pretty well. I can guarentee you that the second rating in yardage is not an empty ranking, but certainly the quantity of 30 point games allowed is quite alarming. But again, it doesn't seem to be supported by long clock-consuming drives. I'll come back to this.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;653663]2nd in Yds allowed, 26th in scoring. GBs D is solid, but before we put the pedestal up too high let's consider the teams they faced this year: Lions-2X, Bears-2X, Rams, Browns, Bucs, 49ers, Seahawks, Cards (with playoff seeding locked up). That's 10 games against some poor offensive teams. When they played teams that could score: Bengals - 31, Vikings - 30, Vikings - 38, Dallas - 7 (warms my heart), Ravens - 14 Steelers - 37.[/quote]Figured it out. Three main reasons: 1) the Packers have a poor punting game that puts their defense in poor situations where only a few yards against can result in points. 2) The Packers rank 6th overall in [URL="http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats"]points against [I]per drive[/I][/URL]. That's a pretty good rate stat, even if they face more drives in the second half of games than the average team due to a quick strike offense and having the luxury of protecting a lead. 3) the Packers give up a disproportionately high percentage of touchdowns to field goals. A lot of this is just bad luck. If you only let a team onto your half of the field twice in an entire game, but they score both times, that's a better performance than allowing them deep in your territory four times, but holding them to all field goals. But it's more points. It could also speak to a situational defense issue.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

I'd say they are the second, or perhaps third best defense in the NFL. The Jets are clearly head and shoulders above them at number one, and once you consider who they have played, I don't think they are head and shoulders above Baltimore and Philadelphia, and even Carolina and San Francisco. But If I had to pick one of those defense, just subjectively, I'd go with either the Eagles or the Packers this year.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;653635]5 TDs and 4 incompletions is just mind-boggling. Especially when a) he didn't have Boldin and b) the Packers have Charles Woodson. And I don't think Leinart is a bad QB but the gap between him and Warner is staggering.

It's crazy to think we may have never witnessed any of this if Trent Green hadn't gotten hurt and forced Warner into action. Just makes you wonder about all the 3rd string/practice squad QBs over the years that might have been in the same boat[/quote]

That's a great point Smoot. Had Green not been hurt it is unlikely we would have seen Warner. I forgot about that. The amazing thing about that was how he just came in a lit it up. Instead of a drop off because Green wen down there was an upswing because Warner was in.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=irish;653784]That's a great point Smoot. Had Green not been hurt it is unlikely we would have seen Warner. I forgot about that. The amazing thing about that was how he just came in a lit it up. Instead of a drop off because Green wen down there was an upswing because Warner was in.[/quote]

And not to mention it took Green himself until his 6th year to get his shot

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;653635]5 TDs and 4 incompletions is just mind-boggling. Especially when a) he didn't have Boldin and b) the Packers have Charles Woodson. And I don't think Leinart is a bad QB but the gap between him and Warner is staggering.

It's crazy to think we may have never witnessed any of this if Trent Green hadn't gotten hurt and forced Warner into action. Just makes you wonder about all the 3rd string/practice squad QBs over the years that might have been in the same boat[/quote]

Agreed. What if NE didn't keep 4 QB's the year they drafted Brady and he started 4th on the depth chart? What if Bledsoe didn't get hurt the next year?

What if Green got hurt with Collins as his backup instead? One can only wonder.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;653672]Figured it out. Three main reasons: 1) the Packers have a poor punting game that puts their defense in poor situations where only a few yards against can result in points. 2) The Packers rank 6th overall in [URL="http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats"]points against [I]per drive[/I][/URL]. That's a pretty good rate stat, even if they face more drives in the second half of games than the average team due to a quick strike offense and having the luxury of protecting a lead. 3) the Packers give up a disproportionately high percentage of touchdowns to field goals. A lot of this is just bad luck.[I] [B]If you only let a team onto your half of the field twice in an entire game, but they score both times, that's a better performance than allowing them deep in your territory four times, but holding them to all field goals.[/B][/I] But it's more points. [B]It could also speak to a situational defense issue[/B].[/quote]
It's good to flush things out from our different perspectives.

I disagree with thefirst bolded point, at the end of the day the only thing that matters is points. One scenario you give up 14, the other 12. That's often the difference between a W & L. Over the course of a season, luck is factored in equally for all teams so I'd take that out of the equation. But your point about situational defense is the first place I'd look (Red Zone/Goal Line D).

GB's D is definitely a top 10 overall D, but not great.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

Sam Bradford = could be the next kurt warner

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

Of all the NFC teams playing now i hate to say it but i think the Cowgirls will be the team to beat. It seems they are the only team left that plays defense. aahh the pain!!

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;653635]5 TDs and 4 incompletions is just mind-boggling. Especially when a) he didn't have Boldin and b) the Packers have Charles Woodson. And I don't think Leinart is a bad QB but the gap between him and Warner is staggering.

It's crazy to think we may have never witnessed any of this if Trent Green hadn't gotten hurt and forced Warner into action. [B]Just makes you wonder about all the 3rd string/practice squad QBs over the years that might have been in the same boat[/quote][/B]

Im pretty sure everyone here knows how well Colt Brennan would do if given the opportunity.

Re: Wild Card Weekend Game Day Thread(s)
 

[quote=SBXVII;653481]Looks like the Bills are wanting to interview everyone....

Grimm:
[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/11/bills-want-to-interview-russ-grimm/]Bills want to interview Russ Grimm | ProFootballTalk.com[/url]

Schottenheimer:
[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/11/bills-ask-to-talk-to-brian-schottenheimer/]Bills ask to talk to Brian Schottenheimer | ProFootballTalk.com[/url][/quote]

Schott, to my surprise, has turned down the chance to interview. And apparently Grimm isn't so interested either.

No one wants to be in Buffalo I guess...except for Gmanc

Guess Leslie Frazier is the clubhouse leader now