Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=saden1;698636]SS33, read your post, read mine and then read the first paragraph of the article you posted.



You can bash the gov for the lack of regulation and oversight and I won't defend that but I can not accept "pressure/programs" line. Never![/quote]You may not want to accept it, but it was a contributing factor. And I certainly do NOT believe, nor asserted, it was "Tyrone's and Julio's" mortgages that caused the economic meltdown. I live in suburbia in VB, I'm well aware of the foreclosure and for sale signs everywhere.

What I was responding to particularly was jtf's comment about "free marketism failed miserably", which I disagree with.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=saden1;696550]I would have thought someone would have started a thread about this but I guess I will. What's the point of this law? I don't get it.[/quote]

It is political grandstanding by the GOP plain and simple. The Teapartiers have them worried so they have to come out like they are against illegal immigration like gangbusters. Thing is, stuff like this is going to lead to "Your papers please!!!!" It is rather sad. Russia and E Europe have thrown off the yoke of totalitarianism, yet our govt starting to embrace it.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

Maybe if we had all the illegal immigrants write essays.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=SBXVII;698682]Maybe if we had all the illegal immigrants write essays.[/quote]
were you just watching south park too? haha

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;698640]You may not want to accept it, but it was a contributing factor. And I certainly do NOT believe, nor asserted, it was "Tyrone's and Julio's" mortgages that caused the economic meltdown. I live is suburbia in VB, I'm well aware of the foreclosure and for sale signs everywhere.

What I was responding to particularly was jtf's comment about "free marketism failed miserably", which I disagree with.[/quote]

We agree to disagree. Now we know where we stand. What do we agree on. It seems like people are agreeing on anything anymore. Which leads me to this question. What are your perceptions of America. Is America an English/European Christian empire or something new created by the founding fathers.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=saden1;698636]SS33, read your post, read mine and then read the first paragraph of the article you posted.



You can bash the gov for the lack of regulation and oversight and I won't defend that but I can not accept "pressure/programs" line. Never![/quote]


The pressure came from the punch drunk builders. Building houses creates wealth. They built too many houses and tried to stave off the inevitable housing price decline by trying their best to put warm bodies in those houses. Banks who had invested in the over build mode had to try to get people in those houses. The crisis was caused by over bulding. Banks were throwing out cash to builders left and right. All these 500,000 dollar condos sitting empty. Don't sound like government hand out loans to me, or socialism. See this is the problem with the free marlet religion. They used to have a mantra "housing prices will always increase", and they believed this to be fact. So, if housing prices will always increase, then keep building. All the other mistakes else are just false conslusions derived from this false premise. Like always, the conservative tactic is to blame someone else stick the blame to someone. I made a mistake but it wasn't my mistake you didn't listen to me, totally. Totally submit to my philosophy next time and I won't make those mistakes.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;698708]The pressure came from the punch drunk builders. Building houses creates wealth. They built too many houses and tried to stave off the inevitable housing price decline by trying their best to put warm bodies in those houses. Banks who had invested in the over build mode had to try to get people in those houses. The crisis was caused by over bulding. Banks were throwing out cash to builders left and right. All these 500,000 dollar condos sitting empty. Don't sound like government hand out loans to me, or socialism. See this is the problem with the free marlet religion. They used to have a mantra "housing prices will always increase", and they believed this to be fact. So, if housing prices will always increase, then keep building. All the other mistakes else are just false conslusions derived from this false premise. Like always, the conservative tactic is to blame someone else stick the blame to someone. I made a mistake but it wasn't my mistake you didn't listen to me, totally. Totally submit to my philosophy next time and I won't make those mistakes.[/quote]

It's been said before and will be said again. Wow. Just wow.

Way to over simplify in order to validate your pre-existing biases. You clearly read just enough to be stupid.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;698738]It's been said before and will be said again. Wow. Just wow.

Way to over simplify in order to validate your pre-existing biases. You clearly read just enough to be stupid.[/quote]

Typical know everything conservative. They have all the answers. Talk about opver simplify "cut taxes" is the way to Nirvana.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;698640] And I certainly do NOT believe, nor asserted, it was "Tyrone's and Julio's" mortgages that caused the economic meltdown. [/quote]

my apologies if that quip was in repsonse to your post, i should have clarified.... i have heard (first hand in person as well as from "the media") plenty of people say that the housing crisis and subsequent economic collapse was caused/mostly the fault of "giving mortgages" to "minorities." my bad for implying that YOU said that or believe that. but it's been asserted.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;698741]Typical know everything conservative. They have all the answers. Talk about opver simplify "cut taxes" is the way to Nirvana.[/quote]

1. Did I assert that cutting taxes is the way to Nirvana?

2. Did I assert that I know everything?

3. Did I make sweeping general statements about complex financial relationships?

4. Did I make generic assumptions about large groups of people with points of view different then mine?

Did you do any of the above?

I would put you on ignore, but I find your semi-informed, over simplifications morbidly fascinating.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Rainy Parade;698751]my apologies if that quip was in repsonse to your post, i should have clarified.... i[B] have heard (first hand in person as well as from "the media") plenty of people say that the housing crisis and subsequent economic collapse was caused/mostly the fault of "giving mortgages" to "minorities."[/B] my bad for implying that YOU said that or believe that. but it's been asserted.[/quote]

I have seen the same thing said but more from an allegation that predatory lenders/mortgage brokers were taking advantage of "unsophisticated" purchasers. Not sure if that is the same thing you are referring to. Undoubtedly, many of these unscrupulous brokers made promises of easy money to people who wanted to believe in "pie-in-the-sky" investmets and targeted low-income individuals. Plenty of fault to go around on that scenario.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;698753]1. Did I assert that cutting taxes is the way to Nirvana?

2. Did I assert that I know everything?

3. Did I make sweeping general statements about complex financial relationships?

4. Did I make generic assumptions about large groups of people with points of view different then mine?

Did you do any of the above?

I would put you on ignore, but I find your semi-informed, over simplifications morbidly fascinating.[/quote]


What came first the chicken or the egg? Did the inventory of (over building) houses exist before the sub-prime loans? Why would banks design such crazy loans? What would be their motivation? Government pressure? When have banks ever operated in this fashion?

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;698754]I have seen the same thing said but more from an allegation that predatory lenders/mortgage brokers were taking advantage of "unsophisticated" purchasers. Not sure if that is the same thing you are referring to. Undoubtedly, many of these unscrupulous brokers made promises of easy money to people who wanted to believe in "pie-in-the-sky" investmets and targeted low-income individuals. Plenty of fault to go around on that scenario.[/quote]

agree, predatory lending was a huge part of the problem.

unfortunately i've been around people who claim not to be racist but then always seem to find a way to blame every issue/problem on minorities. in polite language of course.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;698754]I have seen the same thing said but more from an allegation that predatory lenders/mortgage brokers were taking advantage of "unsophisticated" purchasers. Not sure if that is the same thing you are referring to. Undoubtedly, many of these unscrupulous brokers made promises of easy money to people who wanted to believe in "pie-in-the-sky" investmets and targeted low-income individuals. Plenty of fault to go around on that scenario.[/quote]

Now comes the same simple question. Why would the banks approve and back thes predatory mortgage brokers. Mortgage brokers can't make the mortgage the bank does. Banks made it clear there was money to make and lot's of it for helping them put warm bodies in these houses. By blaming the mortgage brokers you are blaming the banks. The mortgage brokers got rich from the sub primte loans they are not at fault at all. The bank has to approve the loan. They were paid a hefty fee to reduce that inventory. They were helping the banks try to avoid the inevitable.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;698755] Why would banks design such crazy loans? What would be their motivation? [/quote]

duh... money.

they didn't care if there were actual bodies in actual houses. they'd package up all these loans and sell them off to someone else. it was like hot potato they were just passing shit around to each other making money.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Rainy Parade;698751]my apologies if that quip was in repsonse to your post, i should have clarified.... i have heard (first hand in person as well as from "the media") plenty of people say that the housing crisis and subsequent economic collapse was caused/mostly the fault of "giving mortgages" to "minorities." my bad for implying that YOU said that or believe that. but it's been asserted.[/quote]Cool, Thx. :food-smil

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;698706]We agree to disagree. Now we know where we stand. What do we agree on. It seems like people are agreeing on anything anymore. Which leads me to this question. What are your perceptions of America. Is America an English/European Christian empire or something new created by the founding fathers.[/quote]Nothing I say or post will change your views/opinions. So it's best we stay at "agree to disagree".

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

The housing issue was caused by just about everyone involved. Banks, goverment, builders, realtors, and the customers buying these homes.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=firstdown;698791]The housing issue was caused by just about everyone involved. Banks, goverment, builders, realtors, and the customers buying these homes.[/quote]

yup.
i'd also like to blame Dan Snyder, Vinny Cerrato, Dick Cheney, Jason Campbell, Ben Roethlisberger, Jim Zorn, Tiger Woods, Greg Blache, Brett Favre, and Albert Haynesworth.

and the media.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=firstdown;698791]The housing issue was caused by just about everyone involved. Banks, goverment, builders, realtors, and the customers buying these homes.[/quote]

Banks are not controlled by government. Please Slinging Sammy confirm with your links. The housing inventory existed before the sub prime loans. This will prove my hypothesis. Housing BOOM!!!

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

There are houses, too many we can't sell. Find one you like and we will work with you to own it.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[QUOTE=mlmpetert;698536][URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/03/mexicos-illegals-laws-tougher-than-arizonas/"]Mexico's illegals laws tougher than Arizona's - Washington Times[/URL]


Back on subject. Looks like a double standard that Mexico and Mexicans are using. If a Mexican feels the need to protest here why are they not protesting in Mexico? This was a good summary for their laws.

Under the Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony, punishable by up to two years in prison. Immigrants who are deported and attempt to re-enter can be imprisoned for 10 years. Visa violators can be sentenced to six-year terms. Mexicans who help illegal immigrants are considered criminals.
The law also says Mexico can deport foreigners who are deemed detrimental to "economic or national interests," violate Mexican law, are not "physically or mentally healthy" or lack the "necessary funds for their sustenance" and for their dependents.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;698795]Banks are not controlled by government. Please Slinging Sammy confirm with your links. The housing inventory existed before the sub prime loans. This will prove my hypothesis. Housing BOOM!!![/quote]
If there was a flood of houses on the market then home prices would have dropped so builders could sell them. The opposite was happening and there where more buyers then homes so prices jumped as buyers bid the homes up in value. Now toward the end when the buyers dried up there where more homes then buyers and like now prices have dropped. Thats just basic economics.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=firstdown;698800][QUOTE=mlmpetert;698536][URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/03/mexicos-illegals-laws-tougher-than-arizonas/"]Mexico's illegals laws tougher than Arizona's - Washington Times[/URL]


Back on subject. Looks like a double standard that Mexico and Mexicans are using. If a Mexican feels the need to protest here why are they not protesting in Mexico? This was a good summary for their laws.

Under the Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony, punishable by up to two years in prison. Immigrants who are deported and attempt to re-enter can be imprisoned for 10 years. Visa violators can be sentenced to six-year terms. Mexicans who help illegal immigrants are considered criminals.
The law also says Mexico can deport foreigners who are deemed detrimental to "economic or national interests," violate Mexican law, are not "physically or mentally healthy" or lack the "necessary funds for their sustenance" and for their dependents.[/quote]


Look, we don;t get down like that. in other words we are not gonna become a police state jsust to exact revenge for that racher's murder, RIP. Typical over reaction similar to patriot act.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[URL="http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/06/california-students-sent-home-wearing-flags-cinco-mayo/"]FOXNews.com - California Students Sent Home for Wearing U.S. Flags on Cinco de Mayo[/URL]

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=firstdown;698805][B]If there was a flood of houses on the market then home prices would have dropped so builders could sell them. The opposite was happening and there where more buyers then homes so prices jumped as buyers bid the homes up in value[/B]. Now toward the end when the buyers dried up there where more homes then buyers and like now prices have dropped. Thats just basic economics.[/quote]

How dare you inject the concepts of supply and demand into jtf's rant against the free market!!

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

In your own words:

[quote=joethiesmanfan;698755]What came first the chicken or the egg?[B] Did the inventory of (over building) houses exist before the sub-prime loans? [/B]Why would banks design such crazy loans? What would be their motivation? Government pressure? When have banks ever operated in this fashion?[/quote]


[quote=joethiesmanfan;698795][B]Please [joethiesmanfan] confirm with your links.[/B] The housing inventory existed before the sub prime loans. This will prove my hypothesis. Housing BOOM!!![/quote]

You make many, many assertions both explicit and implied concerning the causes of the houseing collapse. Where are the links showing the excess inventory pre-boom?

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

Obama care thread move over, we've got a new sheriff in town

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;698923]In your own words:






You make many, many assertions both explicit and implied concerning the causes of the houseing collapse. Where are the links showing the excess inventory pre-boom?[/quote]


[url=http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/study-shows-building-boom-before-market-crashed/]Study Shows Building Boom Before Market Crashed - City Room Blog - NYTimes.com[/url]

[url=http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/16/news/economy/Florida_home_building/index.htm?section=money_topstories]Builders returning to the devastated Florida housing market - Apr. 16, 2010[/url]


Putting people into the housing market who weren't in the housing market. Releasing credit restrictions to get rid of them houses. These two links show New York housing market and Florida.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

You know who built all those houses? Illegal immigrants, that's who. Thus proving a plot by the socialist parties of Mexico and Cuba to invade our land with low skill low wage workers who would topple the very foundation of the free market by flooding the housing sector with unneeded houses thus forcing the banks to begin the subprime craze, and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to keep pumping money until the system collapsed. Then the socialists of Cuba/Mexico took to the Gulf where they forced Big Oil to drill in deeper and deeper water until Big Oil lost it. I see the whole picture now. It is clear. Thank you joetheismanfan. Die all you capitalist pigs, socialism will rule!

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;698946]You know who built all those houses? Illegal immigrants, that's who. Thus proving a plot by the socialist parties of Mexico and Cuba to invade our land with low skill low wage workers who would topple the very foundation of the free market by flooding the housing sector with unneeded houses thus forcing the banks to begin the subprime craze, and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to keep pumping money until the system collapsed. Then the socialists of Cuba/Mexico took to the Gulf where they forced Big Oil to drill in deeper and deeper water until Big Oil lost it. I see the whole picture now. It is clear. Thank you joetheismanfan. Die all you capitalist pigs, socialism will rule![/quote]

Your Welcome

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;698949]Your Welcome[/quote]

sadly, I don't know if you understood the dripping sarcasm of my comment.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;698955]sadly, I don't know if you understood the dripping sarcasm of my comment.[/quote]

Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

So i dont watch many movies and im not really into action movies or anything, but this movie looks really sweet and is susposed to be about Arizona's immigration reform:

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8cCzltPD6Y"]YouTube - 'Machete' Trailer - non-bootleg[/URL]

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;698979]Squawk, Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. Squawk[/quote]

Fixed it for you.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;698984]Fixed it for you.[/quote]

You are too kind.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;698934][url=http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/study-shows-building-boom-before-market-crashed/]Study Shows Building Boom Before Market Crashed - City Room Blog - NYTimes.com[/url]

[url=http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/16/news/economy/Florida_home_building/index.htm?section=money_topstories]Builders returning to the devastated Florida housing market - Apr. 16, 2010[/url]


Putting people into the housing market who weren't in the housing market. Releasing credit restrictions to get rid of them houses. These two links show New York housing market and Florida.[/quote]

Neither of these two articles show [I]any[/I] proof that the market was saturated preboom. Neither show any indication that, pre-boom, banks were funding builders w/ no demand.

From the Florida article:
"This is quite a turnaround for Schulmeyer's group, which had retreated to building just over 100 homes in only four communities in 2009, down from 900 houses in 20 locales during the peak mid-decade."

From the New York article:
"Furman Center researchers found that the city gained 170,000 new housing units from 2000 to 2008."

Wow - they built too many houses [I]and then[/I] the market crashed. The explosion in price occurred at the same time as your articles show the building boom. NOT BEFORE. Where's the proof that the housing boom existed [I]before[/I] prices exploded?

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_United_States_housing_bubble#2001_-_2006]Timeline of the United States housing bubble - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Median_and_Average_Sales_Prices_of_New_Homes_Sold_in_United_States_1963-2008_annual.png]File:Median and Average Sales Prices of New Homes Sold in United States 1963-2008 annual.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Further, neither of your articles mention anything about the so-called easy money available to builders PRE-BOOM and which, according to you, was the ultimate cause of the housing crash.

Don't worry, I won't tax your limited comprehension skills by requesting you prove your hyperbole. Feel free to cling to your comfortable, simple misconceptions.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

I think good ole jtf reads the headline and fills in the story to meet his agenda/world view, facts aren't really necessary for the rest of the details.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

I had to buy a house in that market when there where not enough houses and to many buyers. If you liked a home you better have a contract in their hands for 10,000 or more over asking price or you where left sitting on the curb. It was just crazy. My budy put in a contract to have a home built for like $280,000 and after the contractor dragged it out for a 1 1/2 yrs his new home was now worth over $425,000. He sold the home and never moved in. Part was a supply problem and then people figured out they could get some fancy loan and buy a bigger home. Then we rounded up more illegals and contractors started building house after house then the market dropped and now we have a bunch of home and no buyers. We are also stuck with a bunch of illegals that now won't leave.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=mlmpetert;698914][URL="http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/06/california-students-sent-home-wearing-flags-cinco-mayo/"]FOXNews.com - California Students Sent Home for Wearing U.S. Flags on Cinco de Mayo[/URL][/quote]

Oh man. That's scary. US school teachers sending kids home for wearing the American Flag on a T-shirt? Fail, fail, fail.

I've heard that no Mexicans outside the town of Puebla even celebrate Cinco De Mayo. Apparently the "holiday" celebrates when that particular town fought off the French in 1862. Mexico was ultimately unable to stop the European "intervention."