Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I voted no simply because you can't rebuild a team within the time Shanhan has been here.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Hog1;854750]If you want to be fair about it take a few minutes and review MS record. You will find....many Championship teams and 3 SB's as he served as HC and OC, position coach on some others.
Post Elway, he had I think one losing season and numerous post season appearances.
Additionally, how many SB's did Elway win prior to MS's arrival?
I would agree to some degree that as at this point we cannot be sure what MS we have. Perhaps he will eclipse all previous records before he is done...perhaps not.
AND that leads me to my last point.
Suggesting that the Shanahans should be in jeopardy possibly after this season is the same kind of knee jerk move we have relentlessly crucified Dan for lo' these many years[/quote]

Can't agree more with this

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I believe in Mike..BUT not sure about kyle? ..Does anybody believe he would fire his son if needed?..it may come to that and it will be a problem.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Hog1;854750]If you want to be fair about it take a few minutes and review MS record. You will find....many Championship teams and 3 SB's as he served as HC and OC, position coach on some others.
Post Elway, he had I think one losing season and numerous post season appearances.
Additionally, how many SB's did Elway win prior to MS's arrival?
I would agree to some degree that as at this point we cannot be sure what MS we have. Perhaps he will eclipse all previous records before he is done...perhaps not.
AND that leads me to my last point.
Suggesting that the Shanahans should be in jeopardy possibly after this season is the same kind of knee jerk move we have relentlessly crucified Dan for lo' these many years[/quote]


So just let it ride huh? Hmmmmmmmmm OK. When 2013 comes and goes and we still suck will he belong on the hot seat then? I don't think too many folks were expecting playoffs here, but at least some improvement over the previous year and over Zorn's tenure here. Shall we give them say what John Cook gave Norv? I can take losing, but it is the way we are losing and coming off as a team that bothers me. It seems to be unraveling, with the same ol post game interviews with more "we fought our guts out" type of stuff. I am not saying to fire the Shanny, but damn give him some heat for this stuff.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;854633]
Oh and since Clinton Portis and Danny Boy are not in the same family, their relationship cannot be called nepotism. Because Mike and Kyle Shanahan are father and son, nepotism is clearly a concept that is open for discussion.[/quote]

The ultimate effect is similar to nepotism, i.e lack of accountability, excessive power, etc.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;854766]So just let it ride huh? Hmmmmmmmmm OK. [B]When 2013 comes and goes and we still suck will he belong on the hot seat then? [/B]I don't think too many folks were expecting playoffs here, but at least some improvement over the previous year and over Zorn's tenure here. Shall we give them say what John Cook gave Norv? I can take losing, but it is the way we are losing and coming off as a team that bothers me. It seems to be unraveling, with the same ol post game interviews with more "we fought our guts out" type of stuff. I am not saying to fire the Shanny, but damn give him some heat for this stuff.[/quote]

IMO Make it 2012, not now or the 2013 date you mention. It is fair to give Shanny three years to fix the mess and produce a competitive team.

In the name of continuity I am willing to be patient right now. If we don't look better 12 months from now, though, then I may start calling for heads to roll.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;854766]So just let it ride huh? Hmmmmmmmmm OK. When 2013 comes and goes and we still suck will he belong on the hot seat then? I don't think too many folks were expecting playoffs here, but at least some improvement over the previous year and over Zorn's tenure here. Shall we give them say what John Cook gave Norv? I can take losing, but it is the way we are losing and coming off as a team that bothers me. It seems to be unraveling, with the same ol post game interviews with more "we fought our guts out" type of stuff. I am not saying to fire the Shanny, but damn give him some heat for this stuff.[/quote]

Also, we are in [I]year 1[/I] in an attempt at a rebuild. Other teams struggled similarly in [B]year 1[/B]. It is not until year 3 or later the talent accumulated starts to fully bear fruit in wins.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;854771]Also, we are in [I]year 1[/I] in an attempt at a rebuild. Other teams struggled similarly in [B]year 1[/B]. It is not until year 3 or later the talent accumulated starts to fully bear fruit in wins.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure we are in year two: Shanny has had two offseasons, including two drafts, and 23 games.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Lotus;854772]I'm pretty sure we are in year two: Shanny has had two offseasons, including two drafts, and 23 games.[/quote]It's what you [I]do[/I] in an offseason that determines if you're trying to rebuild or not.

I'm trying to judge [I]intent[/I] from Shanahan's [I]actions[/I], not his tenure. Last year, he did [I]not[/I] make moves that were committed to any sort of rebuild whatsoever. He kept Al when he supposedly could have dumped him for a third. He traded picks for McNabb and Brown, two short term solutions. He dragged in Galloway, Kemo, LJ, and Fast Willie to see if any could stick. He did all of those things than scour the league for potential prospects and the like.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

The fact that Mike Shanahan is 9-14 after 23 games is discouraging to say the least. Gibbs 2.0, Jim Zorn, and Steve Spurrier all had at least 10 wins by their first 23 games. I know its just one more game, but Mike Shanahan was hired as head coach to build this Redskins team.

So far, he's had two drafts. I think regardless of how the Redskins finish in 2011, Mike Shanahan will have a great Redskin team on the field by the start of 2012. While he's made mistakes, he's also gotten some things right. It's takes a while to build a winner and even longer to build a champion.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Should MS be fired or considered to be fired. NO!
Should he be getting some heat? Yes.
Have Haslett and KS been under achieving? Yes.
Haslett is not the most creative coach in the world. Very slow to make adjustments during the game. Not a great innovator (X's and O's). With all the talent we have on defense this defense should be better. I think we can do better than Haslett.
He has handled the secondary very poorly.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Clearly Beck holding onto the ball too long is not coaching, Beck fumbling the ball is not coaching, Beck not making the right read or going through his progressions fast enough has nothing to do with coaching.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SBXVII;854873]Clearly Beck holding onto the ball too long is not coaching, Beck fumbling the ball is not coaching, Beck not making the right read or going through his progressions fast enough has nothing to do with coaching.[/quote]

Having gone through three Qb's that were hand picked by this staff and none of them do well......might have something to do with this staff.?.?

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Defensewins;854881]Having gone through three Qb's that were hand picked by this staff and none of them do well......might have something to do with this staff.?.?[/quote]

MS pretty much staked his reputation on all of these guys, and it has blown up in his face so far. Granted that there is still a lot of football left, so hopefully whatever good he saw in Beck would come out in a consistent basis.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I know our attention is on the QB situation & MS has a lot at stake there. He needs a draft to ultimately fix that & I think most of us feel that's reasonable.

More immediate, I think this defense could cause more of a problem for him. After a great start they're not looking nearly as good. In the past he has had issues w/that side of the ball that led him to make changes. His comments about the D after the Carolina game were kinda insinuating that he's not happy w/Haslett. Will he make a change there this year or in the offseason?

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=GMScud;854521]As far as Kyle goes- I think if he is as big of a problem as he appears to possibly be right now, you've got wonder if nepotism will end up really hurting this team. The reason I say that is because, if your Daddy fires you, are you ever going to land another impactful job in the NFL? He would forever be the guy who was so bad that his own father kicked him to the curb.... Is Mike really going to do that to his son? I doubt it.[/quote]

If it ever got the point that Mike didn't feel Kyle was the right choice...some calls will be made and Kyle will find himself on some college staff in a "dream opportunity he couldn't pass up"

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=freddyg12;854899]I know our attention is on the QB situation & MS has a lot at stake there. He needs a draft to ultimately fix that & I think most of us feel that's reasonable.

More immediate, I think this defense could cause more of a problem for him. After a great start they're not looking nearly as good. In the past he has had issues w/that side of the ball that led him to make changes. His comments about the D after the Carolina game were kinda insinuating that he's not happy w/Haslett. Will he make a change there this year or in the offseason?[/quote]

I hope he keeps Haslett around. He did this crap in Denver, firing DC's and in the end it costed him his job. If he cans Haslett then his son had better be right behind him.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=freddyg12;854899]I know our attention is on the QB situation & MS has a lot at stake there. He needs a draft to ultimately fix that & I think most of us feel that's reasonable.

More immediate, I think this defense could cause more of a problem for him. After a great start they're not looking nearly as good. In the past he has had issues w/that side of the ball that led him to make changes. His comments about the D after the Carolina game were kinda insinuating that he's not happy w/Haslett. Will he make a change there this year or in the offseason?[/quote]

I just feel that it is a bit unfair to heavily criticize the defense when the offense can't do squat. Granted that in the Carolina game the defense did get beat up, but for most of the year the offense has wasted opportunities given to the by the offense (either a stop or a turnover) than the other way around. Now this team invested resources on this defense (Kerrigan pick and FA signings) in the offseason, so I can see where the criticism comes from. However, with our putrid offense, it is a bit unfair to put it all on the defense.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SBXVII;854873]Clearly Beck holding onto the ball too long is not coaching, Beck fumbling the ball is not coaching, Beck not making the right read or going through his progressions fast enough has nothing to do with coaching.[/quote]

I agree that Beck's fumbling has little to do with coaching.

However, coaching is indeed involved in teaching a QB to get rid of the ball quickly and to make his reads quickly and to find the right receiver(s) quidkly.

Even more importantly, coaching is directly involved in the acquisition and maintenance of the QBs on the roster and the decision to put one of them in the game to begin with.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I am disappointed in the Redskins' coaching staff and in the ongoing excuses it makes for less-than-effective performance on the field on Sundays.

Here is a column from an out-of-town writer in "Redskins' country" demonstrating that frustration is not confined to the DC area.


[url=http://hamptonroads.com/2011/11/skins-history-suggests-theres-no-reason-hope]Skins' history suggests there's no reason to hope | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com[/url]

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;854753]I think as Redskins fans we've been spoiled by Joe Gibbs. Because really how many NFL coaches even win more than one Super Bowl, let alone just one. And on top of that, how many win these Super Bowls without a good QB?[/quote]

[url=http://b.bm324.com/public/?q=ulink&fn=Link&ssid=10573&id=5kng18tiv8gakek9ln6uc5cxhb0rz&id2=isahrbbkf36oazlg3m4ymarlhmty5&subscriber_id=azdaegihsdgxmylnyxendogzfedjbkh&delivery_id=aslbucpouvktaxpwlxiwtvikgxecbof&tid=3.KU0.BqJbjw.CW6o.MNPA..T_BR.b..l.ApvX.a.TrGJOA.TrGJOA.ULjo6A]Cooley Calls Out Fans[/url]

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;854944]I just feel that it is a bit unfair to heavily criticize the defense when the offense can't do squat. Granted that in the Carolina game the defense did get beat up, but for most of the year the offense has wasted opportunities given to the by the offense (either a stop or a turnover) than the other way around. Now this team invested resources on this defense (Kerrigan pick and FA signings) in the offseason, so I can see where the criticism comes from. However, with our putrid offense, it is a bit unfair to put it all on the defense.[/quote]

Agreed. If we were scoring 28 ppg then criticism of the defense would be dramatically diminished.

The defense does have work to do but it is not the reason why we are sub-.500.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;854890]MS pretty much staked his reputation on all of these guys, and it has blown up in his face so far. Granted that there is still a lot of football left, so hopefully whatever good he saw in Beck would come out in a consistent basis.[/quote]

Sometimes you never really know how someone will act. No different then the military I'm sure there are some people who have made rank because of their over all good leadership qualities, shooting, testing, and board meetings, but in the end no one really knows how they will do when they are sitting in the field taking rounds or bullets. Some don't do as well in stressfull situations.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;854946]I agree that Beck's fumbling has little to do with coaching.

However, coaching is indeed involved in teaching a QB to get rid of the ball quickly and to make his reads quickly and to find the right receiver(s) quidkly.

Even more importantly, coaching is directly involved in the acquisition and maintenance of the QBs on the roster and the decision to put one of them in the game to begin with.[/quote]

Ever hear you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink?

There is a reason QB's make 3, 5, and 7 step drops. Especially in the WCO. Not to mention the forward hitches. It's all about timing. I'll happily blame the coaching staff for not attacking an opponants weakness, or possibly calling a play during a game that makes you scratch your head because it didn't work and pretty much we all could see it wasn't going to work, but ball release I'd have to put on the QB. Either get the ball down field to the receiver or throw it away. Don't stand there holding the ball forever.

I'll place it here for those who didn't see it in the SmootSmack down thread...

[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2011/10/31/2528355/a-look-at-all-9-sacks-by-the-bills-against-the-redskins]A Look at All 9 Sacks by the Bills Against the Redskins - Hogs Haven[/url]

Pretty much most of the 9 sacks Beck took were him holding on to the ball too long. But I will give that if the OL is breaking down as much as it was in the Bills game then the coaching staff should have made adjustments like using slants, or screens to slow down the rush and force them to hang back a little which might have opened up some more running yards.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;848401]But can you turn it into a .500 team with some promise in two offseasons?[/quote]

Exactly............it just seems that we are dead in the water.....not getting any better or any worse.... 5-11 team year in and year out

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;854910]If it ever got the point that Mike didn't feel Kyle was the right choice...some calls will be made and Kyle will find himself on some college staff in a "dream opportunity he couldn't pass up"[/quote]

This is encouraging...and yet irritating at the same time.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;854946]I agree that Beck's fumbling has little to do with coaching.

However, coaching is indeed involved in teaching a QB to get rid of the ball quickly and to make his reads quickly and to find the right receiver(s) quidkly.

Even more importantly, coaching is directly involved in the acquisition and maintenance of the QBs on the roster and the decision to put one of them in the game to begin with.[/quote]

Good points and we could add coaching has everything to do w/ a QB not running a 2 min offense, showing no regard for tempo. and a team looking generally unmotivated on the field.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;854950]I am disappointed in the Redskins' coaching staff and in the ongoing excuses it makes for less-than-effective performance on the field on Sundays.

Here is a column from an out-of-town writer in "Redskins' country" demonstrating that frustration is not confined to the DC area.


[URL="http://hamptonroads.com/2011/11/skins-history-suggests-theres-no-reason-hope"]Skins' history suggests there's no reason to hope | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com[/URL][/quote]

Well for what it's worth, I think this team IS on the right path...though certainly NOT where they wish to be. It has been to many years in my opinion to rectify in a short time.
So I guess I have to ask myself.....WTF am I going to do?
............Nothing. I'm a DAMN Redskin fan and I am going to have to stick it out or jump ship, and I won't be jumpin' ship.....so.
HTTR....
[B]Disclaimer[/B]...this post is in no way intended to challenge any patrons fanhood, either expressed or implied.
Thankyou....The Hog1

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;854766]So just let it ride huh? Hmmmmmmmmm OK. When 2013 comes and goes and we still suck will he belong on the hot seat then? I don't think too many folks were expecting playoffs here, but at least some improvement over the previous year and over Zorn's tenure here. Shall we give them say what John Cook gave Norv? I can take losing, but it is the way we are losing and coming off as a team that bothers me. It seems to be unraveling, with the same ol post game interviews with more "we fought our guts out" type of stuff. I am not saying to fire the Shanny, but damn give him some heat for this stuff.[/quote]

I'll let Cooley say it for me:
"I've listened to everyone call in, and I've listened to everyone talk about our staff, and this is what I like about it," Cooley said Monday on the LaVar and Dukes show. "Our fan base hates our owner, ok, because he can't ever keep a coach, he'll never keep players, he'll never keep guys around, he changes it, it's like a fantasy football team to him. But then everyone calls in and says we gotta get rid of Kyle Shanahan, we gotta get rid of Mike Shanahan, we gotta get rid of these players, we gotta trade Chris Cooley.

"So you criticize Dan Snyder for trading coaches and players every year and trying to do things every year, and then you call and say this is what we’ve got to do? I hate it. What we've got to do is keep consistency over a period of time, and continue to try to build, trust me, under Mike Shanahan, who knows football and knows players."
[B]Longtimefan[/B] Posted the great Cooley Stuff.......

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Hog1;855068]Well for what it's worth, I think this team IS on the right path...though certainly NOT where they wish to be. It has been to many years in my opinion to rectify in a short time.
So I guess I have to ask myself.....WTF am I going to do?
............Nothing. I'm a DAMN Redskin fan and I am going to have to stick it out or jump ship, and I won't be jumpin' ship.....so.
HTTR....
[B]Disclaimer[/B]...this post is in no way intended to challenge any patrons fanhood, either expressed or implied.
Thankyou....The Hog1[/quote]

I'm jumping ship. After 40 years I'm turning in my Skins fan card. I now root for the Los Angeles Temptation:
[IMG]http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01568/lingerie-football-_1568664i.jpg[/IMG]

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

They could maybe be my.......second team? Whatever they play...I'm in!

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;854910]If it ever got the point that Mike didn't feel Kyle was the right choice...some calls will be made and Kyle will find himself on some college staff in a "dream opportunity he couldn't pass up"[/quote]

Yeah, but where? A major Div 1A power isn't going to chance it after the guy was an epic failure here now will they? Depending on whether OSU fires Fickell or not depends on how they end the season. If Fickell beats U of M, he might have gotten himself a job, then Urban Meyer goes to Penn St probably(they are courting him heavily as Joe Pa really might call it quits after this season). Maybe he could land a Big East job, or Mountain West. Nice thinking though Smooty. Kyle might need an excuse to bail, instead of being canned. Mike seems arrogant enough though that he will keep his son. This was simply a bad hire on the part of Snyder to save face and to at least try to right the sinking ship. Unfortunately, I think the ship is still taking on water. We are so talent deficient now that Shanny could stay for another 5 seasons and we would still suck. Any of these guys that are truly starting material will bail after their first contract is up. Only way I see us getting back is take the next two drafts to get a QB, at least 4-5 O linemen and some corners. I would get another young backup QB in their as well. Still think we should draft Persa in the 3rd or 4th rounds. Guy is mobile, very smart, and accurate. Too small to go for as a franchise guy, but he is way better than Bek or Grossman, and is mobile as hell.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Hog1;855068]Well for what it's worth, I think this team IS on the right path...though certainly NOT where they wish to be. It has been to many years in my opinion to rectify in a short time.
So I guess I have to ask myself.....WTF am I going to do?
............Nothing. I'm a DAMN Redskin fan and I am going to have to stick it out or jump ship, and I won't be jumpin' ship.....so.
HTTR....
[B]Disclaimer[/B]...this post is in no way intended to challenge any patrons fanhood, either expressed or implied.
Thankyou....The Hog1[/quote]

Snyder has you right where he wants you. I hope you are not a season ticket holder, or you are going to get scammed bigtime. I am not an impatient man here. The first year I didn't expect a damn thing, but maybe some half decent football, which is not what we got really. This year I would like us to at least look like we belong on an NFL football field. We need two offensive linemen after we draft a QB to help Trent out. If we don't give him some decent help, he will waste away ala Tre Johnson, spending more time off the field than on it.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

After we draft a Kellen Moore, etc we need to get greedy with drafting the best O linemen available the next 2-3 picks. Just boost the O line in one fell swoop. 2013 get the LBs and CBs.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;855097][B]Snyder has you right where he wants you[/B]. I hope you are not a season ticket holder, or you are going to get scammed bigtime. I am not an impatient man here. The first year I didn't expect a damn thing, but maybe some half decent football, which is not what we got really. This year I would like us to at least look like we belong on an NFL football field. We need two offensive linemen after we draft a QB to help Trent out. If we don't give him some decent help, he will waste away ala Tre Johnson, spending more time off the field than on it.[/quote]
Snyder coaching?
If it takes 20 years of running the team in the ground, how long does it take to resurrect? When was the last time a coach....any coach said "Man, we are bad! We need everything! Our talent level sucks...We need a complete attitude change! blah, blah, blah. AND it ain't happening in a year or two!
Point is all this Rex/John talk and all the other BS being enjoyed in the press conference is not what is being said behind closed doors. The fact is the TRUTH is not for publication and would NOT serve to promote Season Ticket sales.
20 years of wrecking takes more than a season or two to resurrect. ShanahanX2 knows it....just doesn't say it

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848440]From what I gathered that delay of game was more so a miscommunication between MS and the referees on getting the time out called.

And I'm not sure I'd gather from that one incident that there isn't camaraderie on this offense. I would think that the offseason workouts say otherwise.

I also believe, that the lockout and who was drafted ahead of us played key roles in affecting our QB plans. We do need a QB of the future, I absolutely agree. But unfortunately, that's not all we needed. We have added several key pieces. And I know after a loss like this, we all want to talk about how we have failed mightily and the rest of the season is doomed etc. If fans want to think that, fine, our feelings have no affect. But we're screwed if the actual team starts to believe it.[/quote]

This. What SS said.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Hog1;855100]Snyder coaching?
If it takes 20 years of running the team in the ground, how long does it take to resurrect? When was the last time a coach....any coach said "Man, we are bad! We need everything! Our talent level sucks...We need a complete attitude change! blah, blah, blah. AND it ain't happening in a year or two!
Point is all this Rex/John talk and all the other BS being enjoyed in the press conference is not what is being said behind closed doors. The fact is the TRUTH is not for publication and would NOT serve to promote Season Ticket sales.
20 years of wrecking takes more than a season or two to resurrect. ShanahanX2 knows it....just doesn't say it[/quote]

He has you waiting for something that won't necessarily come now doesn't he? He got you the sexy coach, yet again, with the new shiny GM as the new added ingredient. He is a marketing genius in that he has all his bases covered. If he wins great, if he doesn't he has your head spinning so fast with all the new coaches, GM, new players, and a half decent draft that you will keep intrigued, interested in following the team. Let me ask you this. Will you still be in this forum 5 years from now if the winning never materializes? More than likely yes, and why? Because of the constant flow, the constant change, that in itself keeps folks mesmerized and always interested in a product that otherwise should be thrown out and discarded.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Snyder might want to win, but he covers his ass with the constant changing of every 2-3 years if he doesn't win. That keeps the sheep in line, keeping that famed multi year waiting list for season tickets intact. Everyone is so stoked that the new regime will be the one to lead us to old glories past that even if the season is a disappointment, they stay tuned in to the farce that has become Redskins football.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

i have been totally unimpressed with the way Mike Shanahan handles himself.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=wordsmithgk;855270]i have been totally unimpressed with the way Mike Shanahan handles himself.[/quote]

Bill Bellicheat? Bill Parcells? You impressed with the way they handle themselves?