Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=skinsguy;870905]MY thoughts are on how well the quarterback can read coverages straight out of college. If he's already doing that before he even gets into the NFL, that is a HUGE advantage over the other QBs being drafted.[/quote]That's where I disagree.
I think its an advantage but not a huge advantage.
[I][B]All[/B][/I] the QBs will have to learn how to read defenses which are far more sophisticated then any they've every seen in college.
But the advantage of having 'read' defenses before could end up being a very short lived advantage i.e. it might not matter past training camp.

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;870823]That's what makes Luck so different from everyone else, because one of the biggest limitations on QBs coming from college to the pros (the abilities to use coverage reads and to work a progression) is something Luck is already doing. Because of that, you don't risk a situation like you have with Sanchez where three years down the line you need a fall guy because your quarterback isn't improving.[/quote]I don't think that what Luck is doing is that different from other 'pro-style- QBs.
Ryan Mallett, Ricky Stanzi, Scott Tolzien even McElroy were all high efficiency 'pro-style' QBs that made pre-snap reads and followed post snap progressions.
Personally I think a lot of the special skills that are attributed to Luck are more a function of his offense and Harbaugh's outstanding coaching at the QB position. (See Josh Johnson in college, see Alex Smith now).
I just don't see Luck as a special, once in a decade talent, that guy was in last yeas draft.
I see Luck like a more athletic, playmaking Matt Ryan.

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=diehard;870924]Give me the guy who's gonna be forced to sit in the green room longer than anticipated because the fans and so-called experts underestimate him. That's who I want![/quote]

Brady Quinn has no idea what you're talking about

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

Anyone else wondering if RG3 is destined to be a bust after this game? I mean, not that I didn't notice it before but that offense is so gimicky.

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;871098]Anyone else wondering if RG3 is destined to be a bust after this game? I mean, not that I didn't notice it before but that offense is so gimicky.[/quote]How is it gimmicky? Because they hand the ball to receivers? We do that. Because they use predominantly zone blocking? We do that. Because they determine the primary receiver based on the playcall? We do that.

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;871103]How is it gimmicky? Because they hand the ball to receivers? We do that. Because they use predominantly zone blocking? We do that. Because they determine the primary receiver based on the playcall? We do that.[/quote]

I understand where both of you are coming from. But one thing a buddy of mine pointed out is that the WR's RG3 was throwing to were WIDE open, like no one around them, I still think RG3's a great player and would be satisfied with getting him, BUT I still ask myself "Can he read a defense?" "Can he change to the right play if he thinks a blitz is coming?" Cam answered those questions last year hopefully RG3 can do the same.

I'd still take Luck over him though.

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;871103]How is it gimmicky? Because they hand the ball to receivers? We do that. Because they use predominantly zone blocking? We do that. Because they determine the primary receiver based on the playcall? We do that.[/quote]

Ironically part of my reservation comes from the outright outlandish score that resembles that of an average college basketball game. I don't know it's not really based in logic but more of a gut feeling.

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

Well, yeah, but that's the Washington defense for ya. Texas covered a lot better than that, and TCU is a very good defense, and he put 40 plus on both of them.

Baylor would have been a high powered offense no matter who their QB was this year, but Griffin did unbelievable things all season. This was not his best throwing game. He made a ton of difficult throws, and was a bit off on the ball location. But boy can he throw the touch pass well. If he's going to complete 4 out of every 6 passes that he really doesn't lay in there perfectly (as he did in this game), that profiles excellently at the next level.

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;871110]Ironically part of my reservation comes from the outright outlandish score that resembles that of an average college basketball game. I don't know it's not really based in logic but more of a gut feeling.[/quote]Oh, because they don't play defense. Yeah, that actually is kind of gimmicky.

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;871098]Anyone else wondering if RG3 is destined to be a bust after this game?[/quote]Nope.
Why would anyone wonder that after this game?

[quote]I mean, not that I didn't notice it before but that offense is so gimicky.[/quote]I thought we were evaluating Griffin's skillset not Baylor's offense.

Either way I don't see how Baylor's offense is anymore 'gimicky' then any other collegiate offense spread or non-spread all offenses scheme to get their primary receiver open in the first progression read.
Look at Stanford for example they use power running formations and play-action with a lot of motions and shifts to get favorable match-ups that favor their personnel (TEs).
Consequently Luck is often throwing to a wide open Fleener.

Ditto:Barkley, Weeden etc...

This game re-affirmed what I've been seeing all season:

o a playmaking QB; comfortable in the face of pressure and has the ability to extend the play with ease

o ability to pick up yards running

o can make throws on the run going right or left

o above average velocity and above average distance throwing deep

o can throw from different angles

o solid decision maker

....etc

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

As Kiper would say... body of work.

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=30gut;871118]Nope.
Why would anyone wonder that after this game?

I thought we were evaluating Griffin's skillset not Baylor's offense.

Either way I don't see how Baylor's offense is anymore 'gimicky' then any other collegiate offense spread or non-spread all offenses scheme to get their primary receiver open in the first progression read.
Look at Stanford for example they use power running formations and play-action with a lot of motions and shifts to get favorable match-ups that favor their personnel (TEs).
Consequently Luck is often throwing to a wide open Fleener.

Ditto:Barkley, Weeden etc...

This game re-affirmed what I've been seeing all season:

o a playmaking QB; comfortable in the face of pressure and has the ability to extend the play with ease

o ability to pick up yards running

o can make throws on the run going right or left

o above average velocity and above average distance throwing deep

o can throw from different angles

o solid decision maker

....etc[/quote]

Total respect for you and your opinions on QBs...but you gotta take John Dalton Beck off your sig, because it's lowering your credibility on QBs :)

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

I watched the game last night Almo Bowl. Great game. What I saw in RGIII was ATL Vick. Lots of running very little actual QBing. Based on that game only and I know that is stupid to do but I would pass on him. I don't see him working in this O.

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=mredskins;871130]I watched the game last night Almo Bowl. Great game. What I saw in RGIII was ATL Vick. Lots of running very little actual QBing. Based on that game only and I know that is stupid to do but I would pass on him. I don't see him working in this O.[/quote]Imo the only limitations that would prevent him from working in this offense would come more from scheme rigidity and inability to quickly teach the scheme, his skillset is such that Griffin would be a fit in this offense or any other.

And even if all you saw from RGIII in that game was ATL Vick its still an overwhelming compliment.
Lets not forget that Mike Vick's skillset made him the unquestioned 1st pick in his draft class.

About the running: If his coach calls a zone-read and the DE takes the RB what do you want him to do? Not run?
He can only execute the plays that are called.
If the pocket is collapsing and a QB is about to get sacked, what do you want them to do? Get sacked simply so they won't be running?

His ability to run is a bonus not a negative.

Also there was plenty of 'actual QBing' going on, you just need to know what you're looking at.

But you're right though judging him from this game alone is stupid even if you didn't understand what you saw.

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=30gut;871158]Imo the only limitations that would prevent him from working in this offense would come more from scheme rigidity and inability to quickly teach the scheme, his skillset is such that Griffin would be a fit in this offense or any other.

And even if all you saw from RGIII in that game was ATL Vick its still an overwhelming compliment.
Lets not forget that Mike Vick's skillset made him the unquestioned 1st pick in his draft class.

About the running: If his coach calls a zone-read and the DE takes the RB what do you want him to do? Not run?
He can only execute the plays that are called.
If the pocket is collapsing and a QB is about to get sacked, what do you want them to do? Get sacked simply so they won't be running?

His ability to run is a bonus not a negative.

Also there was plenty of 'actual QBing' going on, you just need to know what you're looking at.

But you're right though judging him from this game alone is stupid even if you didn't understand what you saw.[/quote]


I don't think the guy was ever under center once in that game. If you gave me a choice of Luck, RGIII or Bradford. RGII would be my last choice and Bradford my first.

That is just my uneducated guess on him, just like yours, I am assuming that you are not a paid professional scout for a NFL organization.

We are all arm chair QB's here.

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=mredskins;871160]I don't think the guy was ever under center once in that game[B][COLOR="Sienna"][He was][/COLOR][/B]. If you gave me a choice of Luck, RGIII or Bradford. RGII would be my last choice and Bradford my first.[/quote]But even if Griff wasn't under center much what difference does it makes?
Bradford, the QB you point out as your top choice below, wasn't under center very much either.


[quote]That is just my uneducated guess on him, just like yours, I am assuming that you are not a paid professional scout for a NFL organization. We are all arm chair QB's here.[/quote]No doubt.
We are all armchair scouts here.
But not being a paid scout for an NFL organization doesn't preclude me from having an educated opinion.

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=30gut;871161]But even if Griff wasn't under center much what difference does it makes?
Bradford, the QB you point out as your top choice below, wasn't under center very much either.


No doubt.
We are all armchair scouts here.
[I][B]But not being a paid scout for an NFL organization doesn't preclude me from having an educated opinion.[/B][/I][/quote]


I picked Bradford over the other two becasue I have seen him be successful in the actual NFL, until RG III and Luck take a snap in a actual NFL game you don't know what you have in them.

Actual it does, you can have a opinion it is just not educated. If you walked into a scout's office in the NFL and said your opinion they probably laugh and send you on your way. Their opinions are educated ours are not.

It is fun to say what the Skins should do and not do, evaluate talent etc... but when the day is done none of us are experts. Unfortunately some of us on here a bit delusional to that fact, not singling you out 30Gut just saying.

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=mredskins;871169]I picked Bradford over the other two becasue I
have seen him be successful in the actual NFL, until RG III and Luck take a snap in a actual NFL game you don't know what you have in them.[/quote]The above scenario choosing between the 3 was [I][B]your[/B][/I] scenario not mine.

In your previous post you cited RGIII's limited reps (under center) as a negative.
But whether you dismiss it or not the QB that [I][B]you[/B][/I] chose as the best in your scenario wasn't under center much as a college QB.


[quote]Actual it does, you can have a opinion it is just not educated.[/quote]You do understand the difference between an educated opinion and a professional opinion right?

I don't need to give my resume for people to know my opinions are educated.
People can read my opinions and decide for themselves.

[quote]If you walked into a scout's office in the NFL and said your opinion they probably laugh and send you on your way.[/quote]Maybe so but maybe they would judge my opinion based on its content rather than an assumption about my background.

[quote]Their opinions are educated ours are not[/quote]Their opinions are considered professional.
But the notion that only professional scouts can have educated opinions on football prospects is absurd.
Coaches on all levels have educated opinions on player evaluations.

[quote]It is fun to say what the Skins should do and not do, evaluate talent etc... but when the day is done none of us are experts. Unfortunately some of us on here a bit delusional to that fact, not singling you out 30Gut just saying.[/quote]If you're uncomfortable being challenged on an opinion or statement it doesn't make me or anyone else out to be an expert.
I never give my thoughts as anything other then my opinion.
But, I will support my opinions and thoughts and challenge other peoples opinions and thoughts that I don't understand or question.

That doesn't make me delusional, i'm just a dude that's passionate about football.

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=30gut;871178]The above scenario choosing between the 3 was [I][B]your[/B][/I] scenario not mine.

In your previous post you cited RGIII limited reps as a negative.
But whether you dismiss it or not the QB that [I][B]you[/B][/I] chose as the best in your scenario wasn't under center much as a college QB.


You do understand the difference between an educated opinion and a professional opinion right?

I don't need to give my resume for people to know my opinions are educated.
People can read my opinions and decide for themselves.

Maybe so but maybe they would judge my opinion based on its content rather than an assumption about my background.

Their opinions are considered professional.
But the notion that only professional scouts can have educated opinions on football prospects is absurd.
Coaches on all levels have educated opinions on player evaluations.

If you're uncomfortable being challenged on an opinion or statement it doesn't make me or anyone else out to be an expert.
I never give my thoughts as anything other then my opinion.
But, I will support my opinions and thoughts and challenge other peoples opinions and thoughts that I don't understand or question.

That doesn't make me delusional, i'm just a dude that's passionate about football.[/quote]

All this and your avatar is John Beck.

Appreciate your feedback.

"To be a professional you must be educated in your profession." [I]~seems to make sense.[/I]

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=mredskins;871179]All this and your avatar is John Beck.

Appreciate your feedback.

"To be a professional you must be educated in your profession." [I]~seems to make sense.[/I][/quote]

Why do we have a John Beck avatar?

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

We have a John Beck avatar, yet no Colt Brennan avatar??? I mean c'mon man!

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

SIR.....Why, Pray tell do you harbor that confounded image of the....... huckster.....John Beck?

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;871183]We have a John Beck avatar, yet no Colt Brennan avatar??? I mean c'mon man![/quote]

One of the most legendary avatars on this board is dedicated to him.

Pineapple Jesus ring a bell?

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=Mattyk;871185]One of the most legendary avatars on this board is dedicated to him.

Pineapple Jesus ring a bell?[/quote]

I was kidding, but picture wise of him we don't

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=Mattyk;871185]One of the most legendary avatars on this board is dedicated to him.

Pineapple Jesus ring a bell?[/quote]

I think it only fair if we have a Pineapple Jesus avatar then we get on the ball with the Sexy Rexy logo avatar. I think Sumo can make some changes to get this a nice burgundy and gold.

[IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/ajt4k3.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=mredskins;871179]All this and your avatar is John Beck.

Appreciate your feedback.

[/quote]So rather then.......I don't know........ discuss the QBs you wanna shift/change the topic and talk about my avatar?

And quibble over semantics:
[quote]"To be a professional you must be educated in your profession." [I]~seems to make sense.[/I][/quote]Funny, I never saw where I said I was a professional?

Anyway, good day.
I must not know what I'm talking about because I have John Beck as an avatar.
And I'm delusional for questioning your negative assessment of RGIII based completely off of 1 game where he actually played well?

[quote=SmootSmack;871127]Total respect for you and your opinions on QBs...but you gotta take John Dalton Beck off your sig, because it's lowering your credibility on QBs :)[/quote]lol see what you started? ;)

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=SkinzWin;871199]I think it only fair if we have a Pineapple Jesus avatar then we get on the ball with the Sexy Rexy logo avatar. I think Sumo can make some changes to get this a nice burgundy and gold.

[IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/ajt4k3.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

Rex already has an avatar, I think that's one too many as it is.

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=Mattyk;871240]Rex already has an avatar, I think that's one too many as it is.[/quote]

But The Pineapple Jesus gets two? He's not even with the team anymore. I think you need to cut some slack here. You just know it would go over too well and everyone would have that as their avatar. With johnny5dickey being first in line....

Landry seems on the rope's about leaving Ou word is after MB decided to stay at USC, Jones is leaning towards the draft we'll see soon I guess. That's good news to my man lotus

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

Ugh, this Landry Jones thing is really tough. His best choice might be to declare for the draft and just try to Mallett his way to the top.

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

Mr. Tannehill is playing in about 30 mins. I don't like him but lets see --again--what he's got.

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;871326]Mr. Tannehill is playing in about 30 mins. I don't like him but lets see --again--what he's got.[/quote]That's a good open minded approach. ;)

Re: Matt Barkley Stays (QB Draft Prospect Thread-Episode IV)
 

[quote=30gut;871792]That's a good open minded approach. ;)[/quote]

..and I would still take kellen moore over him.