Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=GMScud;891907]You're still just totally missing it. Yeah, Sean Taylor was a headhunter. It was his style long before he ever met GW. And I loved Sean. [B]But he wasn't crushing guys just because GW told him to. He would have been out there doing that regardless of the coach,[/B] and the league would just be throwing flags and docking paychecks.

Coaching up and managing hotheaded players is a basic job duty of NFL coaches. Telling players you're gonna give them extra cash to purposely look to get a guy carted off the field is on a totally different level, and contradicts so much of what's good about the game of football.

As to your point in bold, GW is in the wrong, and you're cool with coaches breaking the rules. Gotcha.[/quote]

And neither were the other guys. They're going to try and get a kill shot where there's extra insentive or not. They're not any different from Taylor, only they weren't as talented as Sean was. Any NFL safety or defesnsive player wants to get a hard hit and knock a guy out. If he gets extra cash in front of his teammates as a reward then so be it. No one is trying to end anyone's career. I don't see any Jack Tatum's out there.

GW should be punished cause he was told to stop and he didn't. I already said that.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

Just realized Steve Spagnuolo is the new defensive coordinator in New Orleans. Wonder if he'd become interim head coach.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

At the end of the day, I think the salary cap violations may be a bigger factor in determining the penalty than the "intent to harm" (that's much harder to really prove)

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=SmootSmack;891977]At the end of the day, [B]I think the salary cap violations may be a bigger factor[/B] in determining the penalty than the "intent to harm" (that's much harder to really prove)[/quote]

I think this is what people don't seem to get. Everyone will have different opinion on the whole "intent to harm" issue, but the involvement of money makes it a big deal period. Hell, we almost had no NFL season because of money.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Ruhskins;891842]Look I can see there is no convincing you so I'm going to stop. I have my opinion, you have your own. It doesn't mean sh*t what we think, in the end this is in the hands of the NFL, the teams, the owners, and the players. Bottom line what happened is wrong, the NFL is changing, and we as fans have to deal with that.

There are things from the "good ol' days" that are good and some are bad (like many things in life). In the end, this is "wrong enough" that Williams, the Saints, and players are going to lose money over it and have their careers affected by it.[/quote]

Fair. But you still wouldn't answer the question, which is fine. I respect your opinion.

I just think that it was ok when Taylor was trying to destroy other teams players... and make NO MISTAKE about it... when he was hitting someone, he was doing it with the intent to HURT the opposing player. Not end a career, but take him out a few plays or whatever. And WE ALL cheered when he did it and that's what we loved him for, his intimidating ruthless style. He probbaly got extra cash for it. But when a Saints player does it, he's doing it with the intent to end a career. I think we have some hypocrites here.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

I have a problem with anyone getting extra cash for big hits or for knocking someone out of a game, regardless of uniform.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

Nfl network is reporting that Williams has a meeting today with the NFL in New York to talk about Buffalo and Washington.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;891982]Nfl network is reporting that Williams has a meeting today with the NFL in New York to talk to Greg Williams about Buffalo and Washington.[/quote]

Who's the first Williams?

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=mooby;891984]Who's the first Williams?[/quote]

Gregg Williams has called a conference with himself. Duh. :)

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

He may be having a conference with the unemployment office too.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Lotus;891985]Gregg Williams has called a conference with himself. Duh. :)[/quote]

[IMG]http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews37/me%20myself%20and%20irene%20blu-ray/HF7Y1523.jpg[/IMG]

Good Gregg: I knew we should've stopped the program earlier! I told you it was a bad idea!

[IMG]http://www.dreamagic.com/vivianrose/meMyselfIrene.gif[/IMG]

Bad Gregg:

Shutup! They're all suckers, everybody's doing it anyways!

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;891988]He may be having a conference with the unemployment office too.[/quote]

Luckily for him food stamps are at an all time high in our country!

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

I bet ST did pretty good under this system.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

I wonder if the meeting between Williams and the NFL will play out like the final scene in "A Few Good Men"...

Jeff Pash: Coach Williams, did you order the Code Red?
G. Williams: I did the job I...
Jeff Pash: Did you order the Code Red?!
G. Williams: You're Goddamn right I did!!!

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

Son, we live in a world that needs wins. And those wins have to be guarded by men who hand out pain. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Tony Dungy? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Farve and you curse the DCs. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Farves concussion, while tragic, probably provided wins. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves wins...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want those wins. You need me on that sideline.
We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent producing wins. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of wins I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick you pick up some pads and get on the field. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Ruhskins;892010]I wonder if the meeting between Williams and the NFL will play out like the final scene in "A Few Good Men"...

Jeff Pash: Coach Williams, did you order the Code Red?
G. Williams: I did the job I...
Jeff Pash: Did you order the Code Red?!
G. Williams: You're Goddamn right I did!!![/quote]

JP: Sir did you order Sean Taylor to body rock, punish, obliterate, strike fear into, or personally try to injure Dallas players with monetary incentives?

GW: No sir he would have done it for free.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;892018]Son, we live in a world that needs wins. And those wins have to be guarded by men who hand out pain. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Tony Dungy? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Farve and you curse the DCs. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Farves concussion, while tragic, probably provided wins. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves wins...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want those wins. You need me on that sideline.
We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent producing wins. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of wins I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick you pick up some pads and get on the field. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to![/quote]

Nice!!

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

Here is the hit htat came in 2006, that is credited with Manning neck injury.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nBxHse5s74]Peyton Manning's Injury - YouTube[/url]

I would think this may open the door for Maniing to sue the NFL for possible three times what he might lose because of the injury. That could possbily be over 100 million dollars. This could get ugly.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

Holy foxballs!
I didnt know that was VS Washington.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;892025]Here is the hit htat came in 2006, that is credited with Manning neck injury.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nBxHse5s74]Peyton Manning's Injury - YouTube[/url]

I would think this may open the door for Maniing to sue the NFL for possible three times what he might lose because of the injury. That could possbily be over 100 million dollars. This could get ugly.[/quote]

Look at some of the posts under the video, I think more than half the people that watch football, dont even know what the hell they are watching, and just looking at the score.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;891980]I have a problem with anyone getting extra cash for big hits or for knocking someone out of a game, regardless of uniform.[/quote]

Apparently Phillip Daniels got $1,500 for his best game against Dallas in 05. The pot was made up of players chipping in. Do you have a problem with that? In all walks of business people are rewarded a little extra for performing well. To me this really isn't any different.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;892025]Here is the hit htat came in 2006, that is credited with Manning neck injury.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nBxHse5s74]Peyton Manning's Injury - YouTube[/url]

I would think this may open the door for Maniing to sue the NFL for possible three times what he might lose because of the injury. That could possbily be over 100 million dollars. This could get ugly.[/quote]

Although Williams was behind the bounty program, who is to say that the Redskins linemen had orders to deliberately hurt Manning? In looking at that clip, it looks like a random ordinary NFL play where anything could happen.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=skinsfan69;892031]Apparently Phillip Daniels got $1,500 for his best game against Dallas in 05. The pot was made up of players chipping in. Do you have a problem with that? In all walks of business people are rewarded a little extra for performing well. To me this really isn't any different.[/quote]

I do, it's illegal, and I'm sure the IRS has an eye on this too since I don't think these guys were claiming the additional income.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;892032]Although Williams was behind the bounty program, [B]who is to say that the Redskins linemen had orders to deliberately hurt Manning?[/B] In looking at that clip, it looks like a random ordinary NFL play where anything could happen.[/quote]

Who's to say they weren't trying to hurt him? That's the problem with all this.

If guys are being rewarded for big hits, and being rewarded even more for knocking a guy out of a game, you almost have to assume that any borderline looking play was dirty and there was intent to injure.

Not sure how you're still not seeing the problem that bounties create.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;892036]Who's to say they weren't trying to hurt him? That's the problem with all this.

If guys are being rewarded for big hits, and being rewarded even more for knocking a guy out of a game, you almost have to assume that any borderline looking play was dirty and there was intent to injure.

Not sure how you're still not seeing the problem that bounties create.[/quote]

As Laron Landry has shown many times over, going for the big hit also means there is a good chance you are going to whiff on the tackle (people seem to have forgotten this).

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;892034]I do, it's illegal, and I'm sure the IRS has an eye on this too since I don't think these guys were claiming the additional income.[/quote]

You have a problem with incentive programs at the work place? Ok. Make sure to call the IRS if you get a tax free bonus at your workplace!

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=skinsfan69;891979]Fair. But you still wouldn't answer the question, which is fine. I respect your opinion.

I just think that it was ok when Taylor was trying to destroy other teams players... and make NO MISTAKE about it... when he was hitting someone, he was doing it with the intent to HURT the opposing player. Not end a career, but take him out a few plays or whatever. And WE ALL cheered when he did it and that's what we loved him for, his intimidating ruthless style. He probbaly got extra cash for it. But when a Saints player does it, he's doing it with the intent to end a career. I think we have some hypocrites here.[/quote]

You continue to fail to see the line. If a player has a mindset (separate from what coaches are telling him to do) that he's gonna go out and headhunt, that's a whole different story. In that case, it's up to the coach to keep that same fire burning in the player, but coach him up to be smart and not do things that will cost the team, i.e. 15 yard penalties, suspensions, etc.

It's a whole different story when a coach is actually encouraging and paying guys to go try to get someone carted off the field. It's so wrong.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;892036]Who's to say they weren't trying to hurt him? That's the problem with all this.

If guys are being rewarded for big hits, and being rewarded even more for knocking a guy out of a game, you almost have to assume that any borderline looking play was dirty and there was intent to injure.

[B]Not sure how you're still not seeing the problem that bounties create.[/B][/quote]

It's pretty amazing.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=GMScud;892040]You continue to fail to see the line. If a player has a mindset (separate from what coaches are telling him to do) that he's gonna go out and headhunt, that's a whole different story. In that case, it's up to the coach to keep that same fire burning in the player, but coach him up to be smart and not do things that will cost the team, i.e. 15 yard penalties, suspensions, etc.

It's a whole different story when a coach is actually encouraging and paying guys to go try to get someone carted off the field. It's so wrong.[/quote]

It's like a platoon sergeant telling his soldiers to shoot by-standing citizens.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=skinsfan69;892039]You have a problem with incentive programs at the work place? Ok. Make sure to call the IRS if you get a tax free bonus at your workplace![/quote]

Huh?

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=GMScud;892040]You continue to fail to see the line. If a player has a mindset (separate from what coaches are telling him to do) that he's gonna go out and headhunt, that's a whole different story. In that case, it's up to the coach to keep that same fire burning in the player, but coach him up to be smart and not do things that will cost the team, i.e. 15 yard penalties, suspensions, etc.

It's a whole different story when a coach is actually encouraging and paying guys to go try to get someone carted off the field. It's so wrong.[/quote]

I get your point clearly. I have yet to hear ONE player say that Gregg Williams wanted his defensive players to INTENTIONALLY hurt a guy where he wanted them to take a guy out for the sake of ending his career....and then pay them for it. If you hit a guy hard, and it's a CLEAN hit, and he gets carted off the field then guess what? That's football. What Phillip Daniels did back in 05 was great. If he gets extra cash and is praised in front of his co-workers then I'm all for it.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

My only issue with all of this is that based on what has been reported this kind of practice seems like it is pretty prevalent across the league. On one hand I understand they're trying to make an example and put this stuff to end immediately. On the other if it is a prevalent as it seems then there is no way way that this isn't something the EVERYONE knew went on. Owners, FOs, League office all the way through In which case it is sorta BS to try and make some giant example out of the Saints and Co. Now if the league ends up making this a "they lied and didn't stop it once we told them to" then I can understand. But if the Skins get major sanctions I am going to be a little pissed off about that.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=skinsfan69;892039]You have a problem with incentive programs at the work place? Ok. Make sure to call the IRS if you get a tax free bonus at your workplace![/quote]

Not sure where you work but my bonuses come with taxes already taken out.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=skinsfan69;892049]I get your point clearly. I have yet to hear ONE player say that Gregg Williams wanted his defensive players to INTENTIONALLY hurt a guy where he wanted them to take a guy out for the sake of ending his career....and then pay them for it. If you hit a guy hard, and it's a CLEAN hit, and he gets carted off the field then guess what? That's football. What Phillip Daniels did back in 05 was great. [B]If he gets extra cash and is praised in front of his co-workers then I'm all for it.[/B][/quote]

Even though it is against the rules? Blatantly so. Oh, and illegal.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=skinsfan69;892049]I get your point clearly. I have yet to hear ONE player say that Gregg Williams wanted his defensive players to INTENTIONALLY hurt a guy where he wanted them to take a guy out for the sake of ending his career....and then pay them for it. If you hit a guy hard, and it's a CLEAN hit, and he gets carted off the field then guess what? That's football. What Phillip Daniels did back in 05 was great. If he gets extra cash and is praised in front of his co-workers then I'm all for it.[/quote]

What do you think taking the head off the snake means exactly?

You really think players were paid for "clean hits" only.

:doh:

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=FRPLG;892050]My only issue with all of this is that based on what has been reported this kind of practice seems like it is pretty prevalent across the league. On one hand I understand they're trying to make an example and put this stuff to end immediately. On the other if it is a prevalent as it seems then there is no way way that this isn't something the EVERYONE knew went on. Owners, FOs, League office all the way through In which case it is sorta BS to try and make some giant example out of the Saints and Co. Now if the league ends up making this a "they lied and didn't stop it once we told them to" then I can understand. But if the Skins get major sanctions I am going to be a little pissed off about that.[/quote]

It doesn't happen around the league where more than just players are involved. Skins are going to get nothing but a fine, if that.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=skinsfan69;892049]I get your point clearly. [B]I have yet to hear ONE player say that Gregg Williams wanted his defensive players to INTENTIONALLY hurt a guy where he wanted them to take a guy out for the sake of ending his career....and then pay them for it.[/B] If you hit a guy hard, and it's a CLEAN hit, and he gets carted off the field then guess what? That's football. What Phillip Daniels did back in 05 was great. If he gets extra cash and is praised in front of his co-workers then I'm all for it.[/quote]

I thought the investigation concluded that the bounty program had incentives for getting a guy knocked out of the game or carted off the field. I am sure this had to come from the players themselves.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;892051]Not sure where you work but my bonuses come with taxes already taken out.[/quote]

Must be nice to even get bonuses. I get pay cuts...

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;892051]Not sure where you work but my bonuses come with taxes already taken out.[/quote]

I think I speak for all of us when I say...I want Skinsfan69's job

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[url=http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-03-02/sports/ct-spt-0304-bowen-nfl--20120304_1_bounties-head-coach-nfl]Matt Bowen: Bounties are part of the NFL - Chicago Tribune[/url]

[QUOTE]Prices were set on Saturday nights in the team hotel.

In a makeshift meeting room, with the whisper of evening traffic pouring in from the Beltway, we laid our bounties on opposing players. [B]We targeted big names, our sights set on taking them out of the game.[/B][/QUOTE]