Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;896461]This is the Bears plan as I alluded to earlier in the day. Last time we tried to acquire a weapon in the passing game the Bears outbid us. This time they knew they wouldn't be able to outbid us again for VJax so they did the next best thing.

Anyway new plan. Draft Vontaze Burfict, put him on Redskins One and have him pay a visit to every owner except ironically.....Dallas.[/quote]

I guess I'm not getting your last part about Dallas, they are getting screwed also. We'd be better served having them on our side :vomit: for the moment because aparently they did the same thing and the NFL approved their contracts also. Shouldn't the NFL be punished for passing the contracts to the sum of $36 mill dollars and tell them they can spread it over 2 yrs if they'd like?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;896451][IMG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vKyfBzh4-Gk/TUeH-iXuT_I/AAAAAAAAAr8/KhUpaUk5Zvc/s320/pissed_sm.jpg[/IMG]

Admittedly, I had to look up collusion. This is the 100% definition. JoeRedskin will be able to tell us for sure. It's the combination of reward to other teams, disregard for what the numbers MIGHT have been and the timing of this.

I just can't imagine this was a perfect storm. SUCH BULLSHIT.[/quote]

Im thinking the way the NFL sees it is that the Redskins didnt necessarily sign a new player during 2010 to a massive FA contract. Rather they just "dumped" money of existing contracts of players that were already under contract, in order to free up money in future years and to get in good fiscal shape.

Still collusion. Still ridiculous. But i can see why other owners, even though acting cullusive, would be upset. But complete bs

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

TOS says our FO was blindsided by this

TOS = The Other Site

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SBXVII;896472]I guess I'm not getting your last part about Dallas, they are getting screwed also. We'd be better served having them on our side :vomit: for the moment because aparently they did the same thing and the NFL approved their contracts also. Shouldn't the NFL be punished for passing the contracts to the sum of $36 mill dollars and tell them they can spread it over 2 yrs if they'd like?[/quote]

No I'm sending Vontaze to meet with the 30 other owners who are reaping the benefits of Cap Gate. One of which WILL NOT be Jerry Jones. He gets a pass this time.

Maybe I'll send him to meet DeMaurice Smith. All that crap during the lockout about leverage and making things difficult and for this he just bends over.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

The union signed off on punishing the teams that didn't illegally conspire to hold their compensation down in 2010?

Classy, real classy.

Seriously some of you guys need to chill this is not the end of the franchise.
I hate to see what you guys do when something bad happens on your real life.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mlmpetert;896473]Im thinking the way the NFL sees it is that the Redskins didnt necessarily sign a new player during 2010 to a massive FA contract. Rather they just "dumped" money of existing contracts of players that were already under contract, in order to free up money in future years and to get in good fiscal shape.

[B][I]Still collusion. Still ridiculous. But i can see why other owners, even though acting cullusive, would be upset. But complete bs[/I][/B][/quote]

I will feel about 20% less pissed off if they decide we still get the penalty, but the rest of the teams don't get the money. It was basically a bunch of cry-babying over a couple of teams who had the nuts to do something that might have been immoral, but not against the written rules. Then they all get together and say, "Well, if anything shouldn't WE get a piece of that pie?"

In addition to that, if the Skins were blindsided by this news, that means it's possible they weren't included in any talks or votes.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=biffle;896478]The union signed off on punishing the teams that didn't illegally conspire to hold their compensation down in 2010?

Classy, real classy.[/quote]

YES, and you would think with ALL THE GRANDSTANDING De Smith did during the lockout that he would at least have the guts to do something about this but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mredskins;896480]Seriously some of you guys need to chill this is not the end of the franchise.
I hate to see what you guys do when something bad happens on your real life.[/quote]

LOL. Honestly, it feels good to care about this team for the first time in a while. If this happened sans the RGIII trade, I'd probably consider this "Redskins-as-usual" and continue on with my evening. Not going to ruin the franchise, but this is just something that until more details come out, stinks to high heaven with BS.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mlmpetert;896473]Im thinking the way the NFL sees it is that the Redskins didnt necessarily sign a new player during 2010 to a massive FA contract. Rather they just "dumped" money of existing contracts of players that were already under contract, in order to free up money in future years and to get in good fiscal shape.

Still collusion. Still ridiculous. But i can see why other owners, even though acting cullusive, would be upset. But complete bs[/quote]

Um, collusion or not the NFL had to sign off on the contracts. Someone at the NFL level needs to be fired for not performing their job in denying the contracts or failing to catch this last year when the deals were sent to the NFL for approval.

I really don't care how they got to free up the money.... there was no CBA. With out a CBA all the rules were not in play. Collusion would be when all the owners agree to something that basically corners the market and the players, fans, and other owners are being hurt in some manner.

#1- who's getting hurt?
#2- not all the owners did it
#3- the owners didn't corner the market

Am I wrong?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Where is the video of the pissed off Browns fan? That always cheers me up.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Eric Winston being cut cheers me up. But then I get angry again when I realize that we have barely any money to get him..

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

This could be a way for Snyder to get on the right side of the fans by going back at the league with both barrels. This is the one time we could all sign off and get behind the little bastard.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I think the Redskins and Cowboys have a real case.

Julius Peppers was signed by the Bears in 2010 with a "roster bonus" of $12.5 million that was counted IN IT'S ENTIRETY in 2010, it was not carried forward to 2011 where his caphit was $13 million which was $900k base + 1/6th of the $6.5 million signing bonus + $10.5 million roster bonus + easy incentives.

The $12.5 million is nowhere to be seen... it was dumped in 2010.

So where is the biggest "competitive advantage": Dumping Fat Albert or signing Julius Peppers?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;896481]I will feel about 20% less pissed off if they decide we still get the penalty, but the rest of the teams don't get the money. It was basically a bunch of cry-babying over a couple of teams who had the nuts to do something that might have been immoral, but not against the written rules. Then they all get together and say, "Well, if anything shouldn't WE get a piece of that pie?"

In addition to that, if the Skins were blindsided by this news, that means it's possible they weren't included in any talks or votes.[/quote]

Again I thought Collusion had to do with say all the owners or all the players agreeing to do something. That something has to corner the market and bring them $$$. and whatever it is has to cause damage to someone.

Not all the owners did the same thing so it was not a group agreeing to do this. By doing this the two teams being punished (Skins and Cowboys) didn't corner the market since other teams had the availability to do the same. and who was damaged? The players received their money that was contracted to them. The Skins still gave the NFL a % of their total earnings.

To top it off there was no CBA. There were no rules other then Federal rules governing Unions if there was collusion then the Gov would be simply penalizing the two teams monitarily not the NFL. Also with out the Union how did the owners collude against the players? How can simply 2 owner collude against the 30 other owners? When there were no rules in place in regards to contracts because the CBA was disolved? Which means the CAP rules were not in place.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;896482]YES, and you would think with ALL THE GRANDSTANDING De Smith did during the lockout that he would at least have the guts to do something about this but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.[/quote]

They got paid off. They put a price tag on sanctioning the illegal activity the league entered into against them, and more than that, made sure that the only teams that didn't engage in it got punished for doing so.

It's going to be hard to ever be on the union's side again after this.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

It would have been better served had the owners came together with the Skins and Cowboys and spoke with them and basically came to an agreement then in the future they were not going to allow that to happen again.

In other words its one thing if both teams knew what they were doing was wrong and against the rules and did it anyway and then yes you punish them monitarily, hit them in the pocket. But... when there is no rule against it, and the NFL fails to tell the teams they can't do that, and allows it to happen.... they should not be able to all of a sudden decide to punish monitarily for something that was not against the rules and come up with some fictitious money punishment. How about each team that did this pay a fine say $36 mill over 2 yrs but it does not effect their CAP money.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Is the issue here that the Redskins are being fined based on how far they were over an imaginary cap? This article says that we would have been $39 million over in 2010.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Okay so looks like I will eat some crow, original reports were correct but at least it can be spread out over 2 years. I am still amazed that this is happening whoever set the deals up in this manner (bruce Allen I am assuming) damn well better lose their job over this.

Anyone else think that we are going to back out of our deal with St Louis now?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Ok, DS should appeal and the NFL should hold off Free Agency until they can get this handled in a fair manner or until it can be decided legally. Otherwise hold off the punishment until it can be legally reviewed. The punishment could always be put on us later in which the team might have to cut players perhaps to get below the CAP say $15 mill over 2 yrs.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Jontrem;896511]Okay so looks like I will eat some crow, original reports were correct but at least it can be spread out over 2 years. I am still amazed that this is happening whoever set the deals up in this manner (bruce Allen I am assuming) damn well better lose their job over this.

Anyone else think that we are going to back out of our deal with St Louis now?[/quote]


Nope not at all, they will find a way to work it out im sure.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Jontrem;896511]Okay so looks like I will eat some crow, original reports were correct but at least it can be spread out over 2 years. I am still amazed that this is happening whoever set the deals up in this manner (bruce Allen I am assuming) damn well better lose their job over this.

[B]Anyone else think that we are going to back out of our deal with St Louis now?[/B][/quote]

No way!

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Jontrem;896511]Okay so looks like I will eat some crow, original reports were correct but at least it can be spread out over 2 years. I am still amazed that this is happening whoever set the deals up in this manner (bruce Allen I am assuming) damn well better lose their job over this.

Anyone else think that we are going to back out of our deal with St Louis now?[/quote]nope

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SBXVII;896512]Ok, DS should appeal and the NFL should hold off Free Agency until they can get this handled in a fair manner or until it can be decided legally. Otherwise hold off the punishment until it can be legally reviewed. The punishment could always be put on us later in which the team might have to cut players perhaps to get below the CAP say $15 mill over 2 yrs.[/quote]

They can't put brakes on the entire process. Push it into next year and the. Get into court. It's dumb to freeze the whole league to sort this out.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Jeezum, folks, stop talking about firing Allen... do you really want Cerrato back?

This isn't a killer even if it ends up being enforced, and it's not Allen's fault that he played by the rules and the rules changed retroactively.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Mayor;896523]Jeezum, folks, stop talking about firing Allen... do you really want Cerrato back?

This isn't a killer even if it ends up being enforced, and it's not Allen's fault that he played by the rules and the rules changed retroactively.[/quote]

I am usually fairly calm and even tempered, but anyway this shakes out I am going to be pissed. If it turns out that we actually did not break any rule then I am going to be angry at the league, if we knowingly broke the rules then I am going to be even more pissed.

So if we take 20 million of the hit this year we would have 20 million to spend and then have to be 16 million under the cap for next year?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Paintrain;896494]This could be a way for Snyder to get on the right side of the fans by going back at the league with both barrels. This is the one time we could all sign off and get behind the little bastard.[/quote]

Agreed!

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=biffle;896478]The union signed off on punishing the teams that didn't illegally conspire to hold their compensation down in 2010?[/quote]

This FTW

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Jontrem;896525]I am usually fairly calm and even tempered, but anyway this shakes out I am going to be pissed. If it turns out that we actually did not break any rule then I am going to be angry at the league, if we knowingly broke the rules then I am going to be even more pissed.

So if we take 20 million of the hit this year we would have 20 million to spend and then have to be 16 million under the cap for next year?[/quote]show your work, those numbers confuse me

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Here's what I think happened and why there won't be any lawsuit:

To get the CBA, Danny and Jerry pushed through a number of things, including the uncapped year (which, of course, the players were fine with). The worry was, "hey, you rich guys are going to make a mockery of the whole cap idea in that year!!" Jerry and Danny said, "no, no, we agree--informally--to not dump money during the uncapped year. If we do, y'all can punish us."

Then they went and flaunted the agreement (so it seemed to the "poor" owners). The league signed off on the contracts it did to avoid rocking the boat with the NFLPA (speculation here). But the poor owners thought, **** you rich guys--we'll get you later, as best we can.

This is their attempt to do so. Jerry and Danny are on-board with the CBA and the informal agreement, so what are they supposed to do? They sue their own league? But they were a part of all negotiations and signed off on everything. The details of this informal agreement are key, though. Did they agree in detail on how teams would be punished? Is there an appeals process? Etc. If there is no good recourse here (beyond pulling out of the NFL or something), the skins and boys will eat this and get their revenge later. They've got the money--they support other teams with their largess. I take it the CBA was pushed through to Jerry and Danny's liking and this is the blow-back.

I take it the owner of the Bears is not seen in the same light as Jerry and Danny. Hence, their lack of a penalty. Apparently, the Packers have some questionable stuff too, as do most teams. But we did do the most, so I guess we deserve the worst punishment. But THIRTY SIX MILLION??? That's the "blindsided" bit, I am sure. That's the whole amount "dumped" rather than the amount above 30% or whatever it was. And that money comes straight out of our cap and into the "poor" owners'.

What's especially ****ed is the union was so weak here. Do you really think that money is now going to be spent? Probably the usual suspects will just sit on it. If it stayed with Dallas and DC, it would have gone into fat bonuses and salaries.

This is why we have anti-trust laws, I guess--it keeps shit like this from happening and, maybe more importantly, it provide an avenue of redress when shit goes wrong.

Anyway, that's my thinking. Sorry about the wordy post.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Jontrem;896511]Okay so looks like I will eat some crow, original reports were correct but at least it can be spread out over 2 years. I am still amazed that this is happening [B]whoever set the deals up in this manner (bruce Allen I am assuming) damn well better lose their job over this. [/B]

[B]Anyone else think that we are going to back out of our deal with St Louis now[/B]?[/quote]

With all due respect, :doh:

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=JWsleep;896533]What's especially ****ed is the union was so weak here. Do you really think that money is now going to be spent? Probably the usual suspects will just sit on it. If it stayed with Dallas and DC, it would have gone into fat bonuses and salaries.

This is why we have anti-trust laws, I guess--it keeps shit like this from happening and, maybe more importantly, it provide an avenue of redress when shit goes wrong.

Anyway, that's my thinking. Sorry about the wordy post.[/quote]


As Rich Tandler put it...

Rich Tandler ‏ @Rich_Tandler
So the NFLPA agreed to take $46 million from the #Redskins and #Cowboys, who would spend it, to teams like the Bengals and Bucs who won't.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Jontrem;896511]Okay so looks like I will eat some crow, original reports were correct but at least it can be spread out over 2 years. I am still amazed that this is happening whoever set the deals up in this manner (bruce Allen I am assuming) damn well better lose their job over this.

Anyone else think that we are going to back out of our deal with St Louis now?[/quote]

It's not [b]that[/b] big of a deal...

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

REDSKINS Statement on the Cap Penalties:

[url=http://blog.redskins.com/2012/03/12/statement-on-adjusted-salary-cap-reports/]The Redskins Blog | Statement On Adjusted Salary Cap Reports[/url]

I think Danny may come out guns blazing.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Look, if Vinny freaking Cerratto could get us big name players in FA when we were OVER the cap, then I think Bruce can do well when he's still UNDER the cap.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Ruhskins;896546]REDSKINS Statement on the Cap Penalties:

[url=http://blog.redskins.com/2012/03/12/statement-on-adjusted-salary-cap-reports/]The Redskins Blog | Statement On Adjusted Salary Cap Reports[/url]

I think Danny may come out guns blazing.[/quote]

“The Washington Redskins have received no written documentation from the NFL concerning adjustments to the team salary cap in 2012 as reported in various media outlets. Every contract entered into by the club during the applicable periods complied with the 2010 and 2011 collective bargaining agreements and, in fact, were approved by the NFL commissioner’s office. We look forward to free agency, the draft and the coming football season.”

Hmmmmm. Is it to early to celebrate? I mean Adam Schefter is confirming that the Redskins will indeed be docked.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Bruce's statement casts doubt on the report.. [url=http://blog.redskins.com/2012/03/12/statement-on-adjusted-salary-cap-reports/]The Redskins Blog | Statement On Adjusted Salary Cap Reports[/url]

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Outstanding, that's a nice little middle finger.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

From the Redskins Blog [url=http://blog.redskins.com/2012/03/12/statement-on-adjusted-salary-cap-reports/]The Redskins Blog | Statement On Adjusted Salary Cap Reports[/url]:

[COLOR="DarkRed"]This is the official statement of Redskins general manager Bruce Allen on recent media reports of an adjusted salary cap for the 2012 season:

“The Washington Redskins have received no written documentation from the NFL concerning adjustments to the team salary cap in 2012 as reported in various media outlets. Every contract entered into by the club during the applicable periods complied with the 2010 and 2011 collective bargaining agreements and, in fact, were approved by the NFL commissioner’s office. We look forward to free agency, the draft and the coming football season.”[/COLOR]

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;896548]“The Washington Redskins have received no written documentation from the NFL concerning adjustments to the team salary cap in 2012 as reported in various media outlets. Every contract entered into by the club during the applicable periods complied with the 2010 and 2011 collective bargaining agreements and, in fact, were approved by the NFL commissioner’s office. We look forward to free agency, the draft and the coming football season.”

Hmmmmm. Is it to early to celebrate? I mean Adam Schefter is confirming that the Redskins will indeed be docked.[/quote]

Not celebration, but it seems that the Redskins are not going to take this laying down.