Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

@bucket , i like it

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=Chico23231;1000260]Genie Girl > Flo

Fred Davis > Paulsen[/quote]

Flo and Paulsen will both give you the best bang for the buck. Saving money is important in this reduced-cap year and in general life.

Genie Girl and Davis will both bring a lot of Monday morning regret and questionable test results.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=Bucket;1000351]Yes, because a guy who can't make it on the field, is better then one who is.[/quote]

Well, to go to the Gaffney/Garcon comment, I would rather have had 9 solid games by Garcon(ie Winfield), then 16 underwhelming performances by Gaffney(ie Hall).

If he is healthy to start the season, which I assume the Skins will check, then I would rather have Winfield playing, and if a rookie has to sub in for a game or two then he gets some experience, maybe we see a guy step up, maybe we see a guy crash and burn, but the cornerback position is definitely going to be a work in progress for the next 2 years easily.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1000358]Well, to go to the Gaffney/Garcon comment, I would rather have had 9 solid games by Garcon(ie Winfield), then 16 underwhelming performances by Gaffney(ie Hall).

If he is healthy to start the season, which I assume the Skins will check, then I would rather have Winfield playing, and if a rookie has to sub in for a game or two then he gets some experience, maybe we see a guy step up, maybe we see a guy crash and burn, but the cornerback position is definitely going to be a work in progress for the next 2 years easily.[/quote]

16 bad games by Hall? I still can't figure out how so many people believe Hall played poorly last season.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1000361]16 bad games by Hall? I still can't figure out how so many people believe Hall played poorly last season.[/quote]

agreed

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1000361]16 bad games by Hall? I still can't figure out how so many people believe Hall played poorly last season.[/quote]

Because he was inconsistent. He wasn't the worst corner and he is not terrible as some would say, but he isn't consistent enough to be considered good either. He is mediocre at best. Which means he deserves a mediocre salary.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

Hall had one terrific game at a crucial time. He also had a lot of bad games in some less "critical" games. He made an occasional spectacular good play. He also made some spectacularly bad plays. As a cover corner and as a run support/blitzer he was inconsistently average with few spectacular plays and more below average ones.

Part of me will be glad to see him gone so that we don't have to consistently have the irrational Hall Love/Hate debates. It's the LaVar Arrington (Lite) debates all over again.

He's a guy who can play corner in the NFL who brings an occasional sparkle. He is eminently replaceable.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1000354]Flo and Paulsen will both give you the best bang for the buck. Saving money is important in this reduced-cap year and in general life.

Genie Girl and Davis will both bring a lot of Monday morning regret and questionable test results.[/quote]

Very Nice lol :)

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

One thing about Hall that he does have over Winfield. He has played 16 games for us the last three years and including the year we traded for him in the middle of the season he has missed 3 games for the Redskins in 5 years.

Winfield in the same time span and most in 2011 (11) has missed roughly 16 games.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

DHall seems like Jason Campbell. They are both so middle-of-the-road that they lend argument ammunition to both their fans and their haters alike.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;1000302]I've got us taking 4.[/quote]

That's why taking 5 in the draft is BOLD. lol. I really hope we address the RT position as well in the draft. Can't do everything in FA on financial fumes.

[QUOTE=Lotus;1000375]DHall seems like Jason Campbell. They are both so middle-of-the-road that they lend argument ammunition to both their fans and their haters alike.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=Lotus;1000375]DHall seems like Jason Campbell. They are both so middle-of-the-road that they lend argument ammunition to both their fans and their haters alike.[/quote]

So I guess it is inevitable that D Hall will now go to Oakland to compete for a starting job, where he will then break his leg and be out for the season. He will then subsequently be traded to the Chicago Bears for 2 boxes of Cracker Jacks and a $6 foot long. He will then be relegated to a back of role of insignificance.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;1000305]Have you ever watched Hall play in a game?[/quote]

I mean, how many commentators/analysts remarked at Hall's inclination, nay, eagerness to put the effin hurt on the ball carrier last year? He's the toughest corner we've had in a long while IMO. Los could hit too (I was at the '08 home game vs the Browns when Los knocked a guy out of the game). But Los has a pretty big size advantage over Hall.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=donofriose;1000366]Because he was inconsistent. He wasn't the worst corner and he is not terrible as some would say, but he isn't consistent enough to be considered good either. He is mediocre at best. Which means he deserves a mediocre salary.[/quote]

We all know his salary was a bad deal for us...but his on-field performance is not as bad as many of you like to claim.

He's a lot better than anyone else in our price range right now. If we can get him down to what we're able to pay right now, I'd be glad to have him back. I'd also like to see another CB like Winfield come in. That would give us the option to use Hall as a nickel CB or even Free Safety where his tendency to attack the ball might suit his skill-set better...less man-on-man coverage and he'll probably have more INTs than ever.

We need to draft some solid CBs and Safeties regardless of who we sign in FA.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=Lotus;1000375]DHall seems like Jason Campbell. They are both so middle-of-the-road that they lend argument ammunition to both their fans and their haters alike.[/quote]

Calling Hall middle of the road is pretty generous. Only one other starting corner gave up more yards last year and he's been one of the worst rated corners the last few years according to PFF.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1000384]We all know his salary was a bad deal for us...[B]but his on-field performance is not as bad as many of you like to claim[/B].

He's a lot better than anyone else in our price range right now. If we can get him down to what we're able to pay right now, I'd be glad to have him back. I'd also like to see another CB like Winfield come in. That would give us the option to use Hall as a nickel CB or even Free Safety where his tendency to attack the ball might suit his skill-set better...less man-on-man coverage and he'll probably have more INTs than ever.

We need to draft some solid CBs and Safeties regardless of who we sign in FA.[/quote]
I know personally I'm not claiming anything more than what the stats say, he gave up a ton of passes, and a ton of yards after the catch. If he comes back ok, but he isn't a top 10 or even top 20 CB in this league at this point, and as long as he accepts the pay of a mediocre, end of career CB, then fine, sign him back. But nobody is jumping for him, if they were, we would be hearing it from his agent, or leaked sources.

He's just an average CB with great ball handling skills, who thinks he is a shutdown guy.

I think with him and FDavis, I just want to get the Vinny guys behind us, unless they make an effort to come back. So far, neither one seems to have. (from media perception of course)

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

So with Davis basically saying he's outtie, who would be our 3rd TE or even 2nd string? Cooley was just a 1 year deal wasn't he? I feel like I'm forgetting someone.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1000397]So with Davis basically saying he's outtie, who would be our 3rd TE or even 2nd string? Cooley was just a 1 year deal wasn't he? I feel like I'm forgetting someone.[/quote]

When did Davis say that?

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

Niles paul

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1000398]When did Davis say that?[/quote]

Well we're obviously in no rush to sign him and he doesn't seem in a rush to sign with us. It's looking like stalemate so far. I wasn't too fond of his, I'm gonna ball with whatever team wants a TE, blurb.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;1000399]Niles paul[/quote]

No wonder I forgot. :doh:

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1000400]Well we're obviously in no rush to sign him and he doesn't seem in a rush to sign with us. It's looking like stalemate so far. I wasn't too fond of his, I'm gonna ball with whatever team wants a TE, blurb.[/quote]

Why would we be in a rush? Until this week, no one else has shown any serious interest in him. The Bills are serious. I imagine the Skins will see what the Bills offer and then decide if its worth matching. The last thing we can afford to do is overpay for a TE coming of a major injury who has tons of minor run-ins with the law and is one joint away from a year long suspension. The only thing Davis deserves is a 1 year "prove it" deal. If the Rosenhaus can convince the Bills to offer more than that, then theyre very very stupid.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=Mattyk;1000391]Calling Hall middle of the road is pretty generous. Only one other starting corner gave up more yards last year and he's been one of the worst rated corners the last few years according to PFF.[/quote]

Well that's fair enough Matty. But I would argue that, despite the huge yardage given up, DHall sometimes makes timely big plays that other CB's who regularly get beat do not make. These occasional plays, to me, are mitigating factors.

Put differently, DHall fans tend to point to his big plays. Detractors tend to point to yardage surrendered. IMO each side could recognize that the other has a point, decide to get along, and then we could talk about topics which are less futile than yet another DHall discussion.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1000402][B]Why would we be in a rush? [/B]Until this week, no one else has shown any serious interest in him. The Bills are serious. I imagine the Skins will see what the Bills offer and then decide if its worth matching. The last thing we can afford to do is overpay for a TE coming of a major injury who has tons of minor run-ins with the law and is one joint away from a year long suspension. The only thing Davis deserves is a 1 year "prove it" deal. If the Rosenhaus can convince the Bills to offer more than that, then theyre very very stupid.[/quote]

Outside of Paulsen we're looking thin at TE, unless they're looking to draft one. And no one tell me Paul is a serviceable TE. That man is just a warm body.

Okay, he's good at ST, but whatever.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1000324]I've seen every Redskins game and player since 1960 and Hall is no safety.[/quote]
Hey I am not saying he would be a good saftey. But he was a very solid tackler. He made big time stops all year against the run. Tackling was his best talent.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;1000405]Hey I am not saying he would be a good saftey. But he was a very solid tackler. He made big time stops all year against the run. Tackling was his best talent.[/quote]

Sadly, DHall would be an upgrade at FS given how Madieu Williams played last season.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

didn't Hall have a go at FS last year and it was a fail? I swear for a couple plays here and there.

I'd look at K. Winslow as a backup if Davis isn't wanting to come back.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1000402]Why would we be in a rush? Until this week, no one else has shown any serious interest in him. The Bills are serious. I imagine the Skins will see what the Bills offer and then decide if its worth matching. The last thing we can afford to do is overpay for a TE coming of a major injury who has tons of minor run-ins with the law and is one joint away from a year long suspension. The only thing Davis deserves is a 1 year "prove it" deal. [B]If the Rosenhaus can convince the Bills to offer more than that, then theyre very very stupid.[/B][/quote]

Well they did choose Maybin over Orakpo

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

i'd still like davis back. we're better with him.

and winfield would be a great stop gap. dude played well last year.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;1000405]Hey I am not saying he would be a good saftey. But he was a very solid tackler. He made big time stops all year against the run. Tackling was his best talent.[/quote]

That's an incredibly powerful indictment of his other skills.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

[quote=Gtothearry;1000414]I'd look at K. Winslow as a backup if Davis isn't wanting to come back.[/quote]

I would agree.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

Wouldn't it be fair to say that our lack of good safety play for the past few years has exposed Hall's weaknesses? I feel like a corner can only gamble effectively if he has help behind him.

For example, if Hall played with Sean Taylor (or Ed Reed) behind him, perhaps he would be more who he thinks he is.

[QUOTE=ethat001;1000422]Wouldn't it be fair to say that our lack of good safety play for the past few years has exposed Hall's weaknesses? I feel like a corner can only gamble effectively if he has help behind him.

For example, if Hall played with Sean Taylor (or Ed Reed) behind him, perhaps he would be more who he thinks he is.[/QUOTE]

That sums it up nicely

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

ST could make any corner look like an all pro.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

We still miss that guy and haven't had a player with half his skill at FS since he passed.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

The secondary (especially Hall) needed an improved pass rush. Still scratching my head with the Goldston re-signing. That seems like money that could've been saved.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

It may be that it was just a position group that they didn't want to mess with in the draft or FA knowing where the problems on the defense are. KG isn't great but he isn't a bad player either. He didn't cost much and can be cut if there is a replacement found which I doubt will happen this offseason.

Re: Official Redskins Free Agency Thread 2013 Part II
 

Looks like Griffin is doing some WR recruiting in the offseason. Might be worth a look in the supplemental draft.