Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1036556]I still support Kyle wholeheartedly. Think lack of execution was as much to blame, but as I've been saying he's got to go. Not a good fit here[/quote]

I agree, I think Kyle is getting too much flak here. There is no good play call for a guard who acts like a turnstile. There is no good play call for a QB who cannot spot wide open receivers. And it was the OC's play design which helped to get the receivers so wide open.

There were some questionable play calls. But if the players had executed, we'd all be singing different tunes today.

[QUOTE=Lotus;1036664]I agree, I think Kyle is getting too much flak here. There is no good play call for a guard who acts like a turnstile. There is no good play call for a QB who cannot spot wide open receivers. And it was the OC's play design which helped to get the receivers so wide open.

There were some questionable play calls. But if the players had executed, we'd all be singing different tunes today.[/QUOTE]

Abandoning the run game and going "air coryell" yesterday when the game was close deserves immeasurable amounts of "flak".

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

I haven't even poked my nose in here, I was so disheartened after the 4th quarter yesterday. And I am not going to try and catch up so I am probably being redundant. C'est la vie.

The game was in reach, and had we mixed run/pass in the end of the 3rd qtr, like we did in the 2nd, that debacle may never have happened. I get the concept of a quick strike one time, but then we needed to go back to what worked. And we didn't. I think we all knew Manning would get his, but with a 2 TD lead, thanks to the defense, we should have used more time and worn down the defense patiently.

Oh well, with Dallas and Philly losing, we can still make up ground if we beat KC and SD. Which I still think is possible. They are definitely all must win games at this point.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1036568]If only someone would have suggested this in December 2009...[/quote]

Shit I've been saying it for years!! Since day one

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1036594]Would you take Kubiack here?[/quote]

No hell no no no no no Kubiaks offense is more predictable than ours

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=firstdown;1036661]its never out of line to call a dallas plyer a queer.[/quote]

lmao,true

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1036667]Abandoning the run game and going "air coryell" yesterday when the game was close deserves immeasurable amounts of "flak".[/quote]

I offer that if Griff had hit for a 30 yard completion to a wide open receiver, we all would have cheered. And it would have helped to open the door for more running.

It's not Kyle's fault that Kory played the part of welcome mat instead.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1036502]Rocca was having a good game til the shank. Killer mistake.[/quote]

It looked to me like they had him doing what I suggested in pregame thread,which was directional punting towards the sideline to keep the ball out of Holidays hands because we damn sure cant tackle anybody.He was doing a good job with it up to that point,he just flat out fked up on that one

Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

I offer that after watching our run game churn up yardage, and keep PM off the field for the first half that it was insane to start chucking the ball downfield. Yes he missed two wide open players on that one pass, but we scored on that drive. It is the other 8-10 downfield tosses on first and second downs in the second half I think we were all stunned by.
You could see clearly that Griff was not reading the field, that our wr's were not getting seperation, and that they had the droppsies. You could also see clearly that Almo was in beast mode. So why, why, why start throwing deep in a tie game on first down when we have the ball??????
Edit: of course if we had connected on those deep balls we would all be singing a different tune today, but there was NOTHING that happened previos to those throws that led me to believe it would work. So how does an OC think it would?

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

The coaching should definitley be getting well deserved flack. This is a bad, bad football team that still can't tackle or even do the basics. They traded away a chunk of the future for Griffin who's regressing more and more. Their leader, the great Mike S, has won one playoff game in fourteen seasons soon to be fifteen.

It's sad to say but if Pryor isn't hurt in the Raider game, and the Bears don't come in with half their defense banged up, this team is probably 0-7 and that's not an exaggeration.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=Lotus;1036664]I agree, I think Kyle is getting too much flak here. There is no good play call for a guard who acts like a turnstile. There is no good play call for a QB who cannot spot wide open receivers. And it was the OC's play design which helped to get the receivers so wide open.

There were some questionable play calls. But if the players had executed, we'd all be singing different tunes today.[/quote]


I disagree.
The OL turnstyle is in fact an outcome of smaller zone blocking guys.
When it is 3rd and long we don't need to throw a WR screen. When its 3rd and long we don't need WR routes that run short of the 1st down every play.

Nobody is fooled by our run game, yeah it eats clock and can slowly moves the chains but so what- it isn't adding points quickly and its a passing league. Maybe if we had the 2001-2006 Ravens defense we could run all day and win 14-10 but teams are bombing us on Defense and after we shame the defense, they play their hearts out and Kyle takes a crap on his duties.
Teams now just have to be patient, at some point there will be a bad series of playcalling or Off penalty or fumble or bad run and they force a punt and their defense wins.
Ive seen maybe 3 drives of uptempo or no huddle all year and that seemed to have been once in Dallas, Oakland and with 2mins left of 4tqr losing by 50.

Kyle waits until its too late. The game cant be played on a Wednesday, he has to know and decide to attack during the game. Our defense is spread open like a prostitutes butt cheeks weekly- Why aren't we repaying the favor and attacking teams?
No more WR's in the backfield. During the Denver game the commentators were said "look at Morgan he is wide open. Pass it to him" Yeah no shit! He is wide open.... ten yards deep in our backfield and if we threw it to him he would gain only 3 yards when we 10 or so.
Again, nobody is fooled by a pass attack that requires play action every DAMN TIME. Most of the time Robert is faking to nobody around him. Rob runs roll out passes to his left.
Crap on the OL but when they do give him 30 seconds to pass, no WR is open and Rob still doesn't know to tuck and run or waits to get hit in the chest by a defender.
Kyle is the architect and has failed us with the read option. Yeah last year we were #1 in run, that's great but in 2013 you have to pass the ball. QB's pass, RB= run. Our QB ran and got hurt, SF and SEA have good coaches and their QB's played deeper in playoffs, had an entire offseason, are garunteed for the playoffs this year, and are everything we wish our organization could be.
Kyle uses Robert like the shield going into battle when we have an OL, RB, WR, TE to do that.
We have to abandon this system and get Robert on an actual track to become an NFL QB. Why with his work ethic are we taking baby steps and spoon feeding his progression?

If the players executed and we won- I'd say wow they played hard in a horrible system, but we need to change things. And I know it would be another * in the Shanny era that we cant accurately gauge progress (like the cap penalty, Albert, McNabb, Rex, Haslett, Injuries).

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1036629]10th in scoring believe it or not but It's also about TO's and we have turned it over a bunch[/quote]

Well the defense scoring 5 times probably has something to do with that. New Orleans, Denver, Green Bay...those are good offenses. The offense has put together one game (out of seven) from start to finish.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1036616]I know at least two people here who will adamantly defend Dexter, [B]but in my opinion this was out of line
[/B]
[URL="http://www.awfulannouncing.com/2013/october/dexter-manley-calls-troy-aikman-a-queer.html"]Audio: Dexter Manley calls Troy Aikman "a queer" on Washington radio | October | 2013[/URL][/quote]
LOVE Dex.....the B & G has never seen a more devastating Defensive player..............BUT....Way out of line

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1036681]I offer that after watching our run game churn up yardage, and keep PM off the field for the first half that it was insane to start chucking the ball downfield. Yes he missed two wide open players on that one pass, but we scored on that drive. It is the other 8-10 downfield tosses on first and second downs in the second half I think we were all stunned by.
You could see clearly that Griff was not reading the field, that our wr's were not getting seperation, and that they had the droppsies. You could also see clearly that Almo was in beast mode. So why, why, why start throwing deep in a tie game on first down when we have the ball??????
Edit: of course if we had connected on those deep balls we would all be singing a different tune today, but there was NOTHING that happened previos to those throws that led me to believe it would work. So how does an OC think it would?[/quote]

If you read Garcon's take on ESPN, you learn two things: (a) he was wide open and, (b) the OC had correctly predicted earlier in the week that he would be wide open on certain plays.

This means that all the QB has to do is to take the OC's advice and we have big gainers.

Inexplicably, the QB did not do this, leaving chunk plays unrealized. And such would not be the OC's fault.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1036616]I know at least two people here who will adamantly defend Dexter, but in my opinion this was out of line

[url=http://www.awfulannouncing.com/2013/october/dexter-manley-calls-troy-aikman-a-queer.html]Audio: Dexter Manley calls Troy Aikman "a queer" on Washington radio | October | 2013[/url][/quote]

Who uses the word queer as a derogatory term anymore?

Just weird.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=Lotus;1036693]If you read Garcon's take on ESPN, you learn two things: (a) he was wide open and, (b) the OC had correctly predicted earlier in the week that he would be wide open on certain plays.

This means that all the QB has to do is to take the OC's advice and we have big gainers.

Inexplicably, the QB did not do this, leaving chunk plays unrealized. And such would not be the OC's fault.[/quote]

I wonder if Garcon took any of the blame for slipping and causing an INT. lol.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1036616]I know at least two people here who will adamantly defend Dexter, but in my opinion this was out of line

[url=http://www.awfulannouncing.com/2013/october/dexter-manley-calls-troy-aikman-a-queer.html]Audio: Dexter Manley calls Troy Aikman "a queer" on Washington radio | October | 2013[/url][/quote]

Dexter = dummy

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

One thing I haven't heard mentioned and that is severely lacking is a pass blocking RB. When Portis was there he prided himself on blowing up LB's or D-Linemen when they rushed up the middle. It seems that Kyle sends the backs out almost every pass play, would've helped yesterday after RG III got hit in the face after uh... the 10th time I guess.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

A few thoughts:

No one is talking about the Broncos' TD to tie the game at 21. We used a TO to get the right formation in place on their 4th down attempt, and then Gumbs slips.

I had no problem at all with being aggressive on the ensuing series. Yes it's a tie game but a) you don't win against the Broncos by being conservative, b) the execution-or lack thereof-was the bigger issue and c) who knew Rocca would channel his inner Joe Theismann (the punter, not the Super Beta prostate spokesman)

The next drive after that, now down 38-31, actually got off to a solid start. Short high percentage pass to Reed for 8. Morris moves the chains for another 1st down. Then Griffin, who I've always felt really needs to improve on climbing the pocket, loses the ball for a crucial turnover

Now down 10 points, on the first incompletion I would have run or gone with the easy checkdown to AlfMo, but Griffin looks to be telegraphing a bigger play downfield here. I think this was a combination (without seeing All 22 yet) of poor playcalling combined with poor in game decision making by the QB. Next play he's got Moss open in the flat but he hesitates and Kory L. can't hold (no pun intended) his man. Sack and ultimately we're forced to punt deep in our territory giving Denver the ball basically at midfield.

Pugh gets us the ball back and we run Morris for a loss, then the next pass, a pretty straightforward route, results in an INT because Garcon slips.

Anyhow, I could go on, but my point is the struggles were just as much on the execution side. This notion that we were locked in a tie game for several drives and were just gunslinging it is inaccurate though

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

According to Cooley, Jordan Reed spent some time on the Jugs machine today catching......300 balls.....
Somebody gets it.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

How did Reed not go sooner?? Dude is a stud

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000271392/article/buccaneers-eagles-texans-lead-midseason-disappointments]Buccaneers, Eagles, Texans lead midseason disappointments - NFL.com[/url]

Redskins, Texans far short of expectations
When I think of how I viewed them coming into the season, the two most disappointing teams to me are the Houston Texans and Washington Redskins. I thought both could win their respective divisions, but at 2-5, both are far from where I thought they'd be. Both teams have been plagued by inconsistent performance at the quarterback position, though for different reasons.

Robert Griffin III was coming off a major injury, so it was hard to say how he was going to play early in the season. Through seven games, he's had just one outing (against Chicago in Week 7) in which he played at a level similar to last year's. As for Houston, Matt Schaub has had some fine moments, but he's also had some disastrous moments. It appears to me that Schaub -- who's been supplanted by backup Case Keenum for Week 9 -- has lost some of his confidence, and that can be a tough thing to regain.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

We need the rest of the WR corp to get it too.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

I'd def put Atlanta high on the disappointment list.

[QUOTE=Lotus;1036693]If you read Garcon's take on ESPN, you learn two things: (a) he was wide open and, (b) the OC had correctly predicted earlier in the week that he would be wide open on certain plays.

This means that all the QB has to do is to take the OC's advice and we have big gainers.

Inexplicably, the QB did not do this, leaving chunk plays unrealized. And such would not be the OC's fault.[/QUOTE]

Yes but Lotus - my point is that seeing how our run game was working and how Griff was throwing - why keep trying?
How does that expression go...."the definition of insanity is seeing something that doesnt work and trying to do it over and over again?"

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1036724]Yes but Lotus - my point is that seeing how our run game was working and how Griff was throwing - [B]why keep trying?[/B]
How does that expression go...."the definition of insanity is seeing something that doesnt work and trying to do it over and over again?"[/quote]

Because we were playing Peyton Manning, who sooner or later is going to break loose - as we saw.

Another answer is, if the chunk plays are obviously there, why not take a stab?

Again, I think Kyle made some poor play calls. But IMO RGIII, and the interior line in front of him, were much bigger problems.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

Griffin was amazingly bad yesterday, worst game he's ever had not even close

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1036704]Dexter = dummy[/QUOTE]

He sure was smarter on the field than off it....

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1036710]How did Reed not go sooner?? Dude is a stud[/quote]He didn't play anywhere close to this level in college. Based simply on what he did out there for Florida, I thought he borderline wasn't draftable. I thought a third round pick for a player like that was a very generous evaluation.

But when the Redskins picked him, I didn't complain. It was a classic "I can/will have to work with this pick." And you can't argue with what they turned him into. He gets it. He gets that in the NFL your first opportunity is your best, and if you wait until the second and third, you've turned yourself into a journeyman.

And also: he's really good.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

If the Redskins had done half as well at developing RG3 as they've done with Reed, they'd be 5-2 and they'd be printing playoff tickets in October.

[QUOTE=Lotus;1036731]Because we were playing Peyton Manning, who sooner or later is going to break loose - as we saw.

Another answer is, if the chunk plays are obviously there, why not take a stab?

Again, I think Kyle made some poor play calls. But IMO RGIII, and the interior line in front of him, were much bigger problems.[/QUOTE]

Im not trying to diminish the execution.....it was horrible. Also as SS alluded to....and I guess im guilty of it to an extent.....i know there came a point where we had to pass, but there were a couple of drives there when it was a close game still that we completely abandonded the run, and the best way to beat Manning is keep him off the field. Even the announcers plainly dtated that it was strange that we went to the air a few times. I guess that it was more the crucial points in which we went away from the run as opposed to the amount of times we did so that make it seem so outrageous to me today. Either way, both the execution and playcalling better pull their ole heads outta their ole asses by next week.

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;1036737]He didn't play anywhere close to this level in college. Based simply on what he did out there for Florida, I thought he borderline wasn't draftable. I thought a third round pick for a player like that was a very generous evaluation.

But when the Redskins picked him, I didn't complain. It was a classic "I can/will have to work with this pick." And you can't argue with what they turned him into. He gets it. He gets that in the NFL your first opportunity is your best, and if you wait until the second and third, you've turned yourself into a journeyman.

And also: he's really good.[/QUOTE]

He was also recruited as a quarterback by Florida. Made the transition to tight end and on top of that was surrounded by alot of weapons at Florida. So I think it was hard for him to really shine there having to share the ball with so many play makers.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1036738]If the Redskins had done half as well at developing RG3 as they've done with Reed, they'd be 5-2 and they'd be printing playoff tickets in October.[/quote]

Little bit more difficult developing a QB than a TE. TE is one of the easiest positions to fill. Everyone seems to have a pass catching TE.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1036739]Im not trying to diminish the execution.....it was horrible. Also as SS alluded to....and I guess im guilty of it to an extent.....i know there came a point where we had to pass, but there were a couple of drives there when it was a close game still that we completely abandonded the run, and the best way to beat Manning is keep him off the field. Even the announcers plainly dtated that it was strange that we went to the air a few times. I guess that it was more the crucial points in which we went away from the run as opposed to the amount of times we did so that make it seem so outrageous to me today. [B]Either way, both the execution and playcalling better pull their ole heads outta their ole asses by next week.[/B][/quote]

I agree with your final point for sure. I am not trying to exonerate Kyle's sometimes problematic play calling.

Let me offer the execution argument a different way: if RGIII had completed those passes and moved the chains, we likely would have followed passes with runs and thus run more. Just like we did on our drive to end the first half, where we mixed runs and passes. Completed passes also achieve the goal of keeping Manning on the sideline. Complete pass, run stretch, lather, rinse, repeat.

But one incomplete pass just creates another passing situation, etc. And the whole downward spiral can be traced back to the original lack of execution.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=Lotus;1036745]I agree with your final point for sure. I am not trying to exonerate Kyle's sometimes problematic play calling.

Let me offer the execution argument a different way: if RGIII had completed those passes and moved the chains, we likely would have followed passes with runs and thus run more. Just like we did on our drive to end the first half, where we mixed runs and passes. But one incomplete pass just creates another passing situation, etc. And the whole downward spiral can be traced back to the original lack of execution.[/quote]I appreciate your efforts here to reason, but the "playcalling iz lyfe" crowd is a particularly tough one to reason with. And beyond that, even though I think you're making good points, I think that its so hard to separate so many examples of bad coaching from the bad execution on the field. It's just not worth it.

For me, one of the indicators I look at for coaching efficiency is how long it takes a team to get in and out of a huddle. And I think when your offensive pace is as slow as the Redskins -- when you're wasting that much time getting up to the line -- it at least paints the illusion that you are always trying to find the perfect play, even though playcalling is not at all about finding the perfect play.

I do think the offense needs to get more expansive now...we've maxed out everything you can get out of the "Robert Griffin rookie playbook". And the more time spent trying to be last years offense, the less time will be left to be better than last years offense.

But how the Redskins are sequencing the plays they are using...couldn't care less for the amount of time fans invest in that and things like run pass balance.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1036743]Little bit more difficult developing a QB than a TE. TE is one of the easiest positions to fill. Everyone seems to have a pass catching TE.[/quote]Agree, because there's more a quarterback needs to learn. But developing a football player isn't different in nature than developing an entry level employee or elementary school math student. They can only do things they are capable of and have been taught. And the ability to do that with Reed shows the Redskins do know how to develop some of the talent on their roster. They're not the 09-12 Jaguars. But their work with Griffin has not matched my expectations.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

Griffin isn't the first QB to have a sophomore slump. If he had the benefit of a full offseason of work vs rehab things might have been different too.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1036748]Griffin isn't the first QB to have a sophomore slump. If he had the benefit of a full offseason of work vs rehab things might have been different too.[/quote]

This.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1036741]He was also recruited as a quarterback by Florida. Made the transition to tight end and on top of that was surrounded by alot of weapons at Florida. So I think it was hard for him to really shine there having to share the ball with so many play makers.[/quote]And clearly what happened (in hindsight) is Florida didn't develop him. Kudos to the Redskins for seeing that (and maybe with some inside info courtesy Urban Meyer) and jumping at the opportunity to turn Reed into a young star in this league.

That's how you win in this league. If this is how they operated all the time, I would believe in this coaching staff.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1036712]We need the rest of the WR corp to get it too.[/quote]

You got that right!