Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

So since I like playing devils advocate...let's say Griffin struggles with the new offense, struggles and gets off to a slow start, or doesn't play well. Then what? What's the plan? Colt McCoy? Does that 3rd rounder for Cousins on the bench backing up Polumbus help? Or is the season lost and we get into the Jameis Winston sweepstakes?

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

Cleveland is the most likely trading partner because Kirk Cousins brings them the added value of being able to teach Kyle Shanahan's offense to his teammates. Also, Kyle values him as a QB and the two of them get along well. Plus, Cleveland has enough draft picks to justify using one on Cousins.

I don't see the point in trading Cousins for less than a high third round pick. The Redskins have set the value for Cousins at a second round pick and other teams are still interested. The obvious compromise would be for the Skins to settle for a high third round pick with the justification that they were able to use that pick to get a player who they had rated as a second round value.

To me, there is little benefit to trading Cousins for a fourth round pick unless the trade happens during the draft and there is a player available who the Redskins value highly [U]and[/U] who plays a position of need who has slipped in the draft. IMO, for the Redskins to accept a fourth round pick for Cousins prior to the draft without being able to ensure that there will be a high value player available with that pick would be ridiculous.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1070054]So since I like playing devils advocate...let's say Griffin struggles with the new offense, struggles and gets off to a slow start, or doesn't play well. Then what? What's the plan? Colt McCoy? Does that 3rd rounder for Cousins on the bench backing up Polumbus help? Or is the season lost and we get into the Jameis Winston sweepstakes?[/quote]

IMO in your scenario we are in bad shape whether Cousins or McCoy, either way, is the backup.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1070054]So since I like playing devils advocate...let's say Griffin struggles with the new offense, struggles and gets off to a slow start, or doesn't play well. Then what? What's the plan? Colt McCoy? Does that 3rd rounder for Cousins on the bench backing up Polumbus help? Or is the season lost and we get into the Jameis Winston sweepstakes?[/quote]

Cousins wasn't THAT impressive when he came in for those final few games last year. So, I don't see as much value with hanging onto him this year as I would have last year. If a team is willing to offer anything above a 3rd for him, the team would be crazy not to accept that offer.

I don't see Griffin struggling with the offense Gruden brings in. If he gets off to a slow start, it will be for other reasons other than picking up a new offense. If we see Colt McCoy during the regular season, it will be one of two reasons. Either Griffin is injured or the 'skins are whoppin' so much butt that RG3 gets to take the rest of the day off.

Griffin is going to be fine.

RGIII was injured and started before he should have. This year will be a quantum leap on from last year. That's why I'm interested in what team offers the best trade opportunities. We could, theoretically, rebuild the secondary.

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Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1070054]So since I like playing devils advocate...let's say Griffin struggles with the new offense, struggles and gets off to a slow start, or doesn't play well. Then what? What's the plan? Colt McCoy? Does that 3rd rounder for Cousins on the bench backing up Polumbus help? Or is the season lost and we get into the Jameis Winston sweepstakes?[/quote]

At this point I can't say Colt is not a down grade from Kirk. Yeah maybe if Kyle was still here and Kirk knew the offense he have an edge over Colt. I just don't see the head and shoulders above talent of Kirk over Colt.

I think a lot of folks on here over rate Kirk.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=mredskins;1070068]At this point I can't say Colt is not a down grade from Kirk. Yeah maybe if Kyle was still here and Kirk knew the offense he have an edge over Colt. I just don't see the head and shoulders above talent of Kirk over Colt.

I think a lot of folks on here over rate Kirk.[/quote]

I agree.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=mredskins;1070068]At this point I can't say Colt is not a down grade from Kirk. Yeah maybe if Kyle was still here and Kirk knew the offense he have an edge over Colt. I just don't see the head and shoulders above talent of Kirk over Colt.

I think a lot of folks on here over rate Kirk.[/quote]

I was hoping the Cult of Kirk would end after his meh performance at the end of the season. guess not

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=Chico23231;1070072]I was hoping the Cult of Kirk would end after his meh performance at the end of the season. guess not[/quote]

Exactly.

Let's say Kirk stays and Colt beats him out of the 2nd string job; Does anyone think that would be Sportscenter Breaking News worthy?

I will say it now and I will eat crow if it changes. I predict Jason Campbell will have had a better career then Kirk Cousins by the time it is all said and done.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=mredskins;1070073]Exactly.

Let's say Kirk stays and Colt beats him out of the 2nd string job; Does anyone think that would be Sportscenter Breaking News worthy?

I will say it now and I will eat crow if it changes. I predict Jason Campbell will have had a better career then Kirk Cousins by the time it is all said and done.[/quote]

I think they are gonna let Cousins go where he has a chance to compete. We need to trade him before he gets into any actual competitions. Losing to Colt or proving to be only slightly better than Colt would kill his trade value.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

I'd be really surprised if Cousins is still a Redskin by Monday

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1070075]I think they are gonna let Cousins go where he has a chance to compete. We need to trade him before he gets into any actual competitions. Losing to Colt or proving to be only slightly better than Colt would kill his trade value.[/quote]

I don't dispute this, although Kirk does have a better arm than Colt and that's a very important distinction to make in the NFL. Yet, to discount Kirk's upside (and therefore his trade value) at this point would be a rush to judgement, IMO.

I'd say that Kirk is like a garage kept 2012 Nissan Altima with only one previous owner compared to Colt who is like a 2010 Dodge Caravan with two previous owners but a clean Carfax report.

I made my other points about Kirk's trade value and I stick with them. No way would I trade him for less than a high third round pick.

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;1070077]I'd be really surprised if Cousins is still a Redskin by Monday[/QUOTE]

What have you heard? Are you open to bribery?

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Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

Sounds like despite the pre-draft noise, everyone is pretty unimpressed with the incoming QB class outside of Manziel. I think for at least 2 seasons, Cousins will be a better QB than anyone in this draft. Teams may fear the Geno Smith factor from last year's draft with picking a QB in the 2nd round just because he's the best QB on your board and fits a need but really has a limited upside. Last year and this year's QB class have been blech.

Our best best is if only one or two QB are drafted in the 1st round and people come calling around pick #34 trying to get ahead of Jacksonville, Cleveland, etc. If we're able to trade back for additional picks and also trade Cousins to a team that's not interested in developing a 2nd round prospect that would make my draft weekend.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1070079]What have you heard? Are you open to bribery?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk[/quote]

My guess would be Browns, Vikings

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1070077]I'd be really surprised if Cousins is still a Redskin by Monday[/quote]

I see Cleveland making a move for him. Makes the most sense.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

Send him to Dallas for two second rounders, lol!

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

i'd be happy with a mid third. his value isn't going to go up, and he's not going to play much here.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=mredskins;1070073]Exactly.

Let's say Kirk stays and Colt beats him out of the 2nd string job; Does anyone think that would be Sportscenter Breaking News worthy?

I will say it now and I will eat crow if it changes. I predict Jason Campbell will have had a better career then Kirk Cousins by the time it is all said and done.[/quote]

I completely agree with you.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=Lotus;1070103]I completely agree with you.[/quote]

The funny thing is that if Cousins was in this draft based off his college career there would be serious talk about him being the first QB taken, is that an indictment on this class? Yes, yes it is.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1058620]RG3 is coming off a bad year with two major knee operations. I wouldn't get rid of a quality young back up for a 3rd or 4th rounder. What if RG3 twists his knee in training camp? Then what? Is that 3rd or 4th rounder going to be worth it? If Clev offers a proven player then I'd listen.[/quote]

I'm a bit concerned about trading Cousins. I want to make sure that RG3 is back to true form and adapts well to Gruden's offense. A decent backup QB is hard to find these days, I don't know if McCoy would be just as good as Cousins and a better backup for Robert....

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=Mattyk;1070064]Griffin is going to be fine.[/quote]

Yeah everyone said that last year too. Granted he's got his off season so that obviously helps, but I still need to see it before I deal Cousins.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1070132]Yeah everyone said that last year too. Granted he's got his off season so that obviously helps, but I still need to see it before I deal Cousins.[/quote]

Based on how average Cousins looked last year, if someone wants him for a 3rd rounder or better you'd have to be retarded to not take that deal and run.

We've been all in with RG3 since the trade. No sense in turning back now.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

Trade KC to the Rams for three #1's and a #2. That'd even things out. :silly:

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

If griffin fails the redskins have to rebuild again. Full stop.

It's a worthy gamble and if you can trade cousins to help griffin's chances you do it at this point. Full stop.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1070126]The funny thing is that if Cousins was in this draft based off his college career there would be serious talk about him being the first QB taken, is that an indictment on this class? Yes, yes it is.[/quote]

That's taking it way, way too far. Kirk Cousins lasted to the top of the 4th round in 2012 for several reasons, and only one of which was that it was a great QB class. He had a big turnover problem in college, had a so-so arm, and was projected as a game-manager in the NFL. Without his great intangibles and a coach that fell in love with his game, he likely would've lasted much longer, maybe as late as late 5th/early 6th. In this draft, it's not a stretch to suggest that he would be taken in the 3rd or thereabouts, but to say he would be competing with the likes of Johnny Manziel and Teddy Bridgewater as the top QB available is, in my opinion, ludicrous.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=SirLK26;1070168]That's taking it way, way too far. Kirk Cousins lasted to the top of the 4th round in 2012 for several reasons, and only one of which was that it was a great QB class. He had a big turnover problem in college, had a so-so arm, and was projected as a game-manager in the NFL. Without his great intangibles and a coach that fell in love with his game, he likely would've lasted much longer, maybe as late as late 5th/early 6th. In this draft, it's not a stretch to suggest that he would be taken in the 3rd or thereabouts, but to say he would be competing with the likes of Johnny Manziel and Teddy Bridgewater as the top QB available is, in my opinion, ludicrous.[/quote]

No, no it's not, the 2012 QB class was the deepest since 83, this class has no separation from the guys who are "lock" 1st rounders to the guys who are mid to late 3rd rounders. If KC was in this draft there would be tqalk about him being the first QB taken. Would be be? Who knows, but to dismiss that notion based off of what round he went in in his class is a little ignorant.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

If they did the 2012 draft over again I don't think KC lasts until the 4th rd.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=Mattyk;1070175]If they did the 2012 draft over again I don't think KC lasts until the 4th rd.[/quote]

OK, then it's settled; we'll trade him to Cleveland for the 4th pick of the third round. That's fair.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1070177]OK, then it's settled; we'll trade him to Cleveland for the 4th pick of the third round. That's fair.[/quote]

I'd take that, but we might be able to do better if several teams are interested.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=mredskins;1070073]Exactly.

Let's say Kirk stays and Colt beats him out of the 2nd string job; Does anyone think that would be Sportscenter Breaking News worthy?

I will say it now and I will eat crow if it changes. I predict Jason Campbell will have had a better career then Kirk Cousins by the time it is all said and done.[/quote]That's not setting the QB career bar that high, lol. But who really cares what either does on other teams, as long as they don't light things up?

I predict that even after we used a much lower draft pick getting Cousins than Campbell (who we also traded up for), we'll receive a better draft pick trading Cousins than we did Campbell.

Seriously, the sooner we never talk again about that underachieving disappointment at QB from the Gibbs/Zorn years, the better. He got outplayed by Todd Collins, for crying out loud.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1070185]That's not setting the QB career bar that high, lol. But who really cares what either does on other teams, as long as they don't light things up?

I predict that even after we used a much lower draft pick getting Cousins than Campbell (who we also traded up for), we'll receive a better draft pick trading Cousins than we did Campbell.

Seriously, the sooner we never talk again about that underachieving disappointment at QB from the Gibbs/Zorn years, the better. He got outplayed by Todd Collins, for crying out loud.[/quote]

Yeah he did but Collins had also been in the offense longer too. I honestly feel bad for JC. I mean the guy had to learn a new offense every year his entire career, never had the opportunity to learn and grow with one coach. Not saying he ever would have been a top QB, but he had ZERO chance here. Anyhow, always liked JC. Seems like a real good dude who never openly said anything bad about the organization when he certainly could have. Just a class act.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1070173]No, no it's not, the 2012 QB class was the deepest since 83, this class has no separation from the guys who are "lock" 1st rounders to the guys who are mid to late 3rd rounders. If KC was in this draft there would be tqalk about him being the first QB taken. Would be be? Who knows, but to dismiss that notion based off of what round he went in in his class is a little ignorant.[/quote]

You're saying there's no separation between Jimmy Garropolo and Teddy Bridgewater? Between Johnny Manziel and Zach Mettenberger? Dude, now I can't even take you seriously.

IMO, Cousins's best comparison in this year's draft is Tom Savage(he has a few of Cousins' biggest issues - stares down receivers, inconsistent accuracy, forces too many passes), and he's projected as a 2nd-3rd rounder. Of course, they're different QBs, but that's about where I would expect Cousins to go. I think you'e overvaluing him way too much.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

I am saying there is NO clear number 1 QB that makes you go wow! Hence why I said what I said l, and I will continue to say it. If KC was in this draft there would be talk of him being in the group with the "top" QBs

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=Mattyk;1070175]If they did the 2012 draft over again I don't think KC lasts until the 4th rd.[/quote]

I almost guarantee he goes 2nd round. Possibly #22 to Cleveland

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1070191]I am saying there is NO clear number 1 QB that makes you go wow! Hence why I said what I said l, and I will continue to say it. If KC was in this draft there would be talk of him being in the group with the "top" QBs[/quote]

Okay. And perhaps he would get a bit of consideration as one of the top QBs, at least among fans and media. But I will continue to say this: no way he goes before Bortles, Manziel, or Bridgewater. Perhaps he could go before Carr, Garroppolo, Murray, and McCarron, though.

But there is a QB in this draft who makes me go, "Wow!" That guy from Louisville is one heck of a QB.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1070189]Yeah he did but Collins had also been in the offense longer too. I honestly feel bad for JC. I mean the guy had to learn a new offense every year his entire career, never had the opportunity to learn and grow with one coach. Not saying he ever would have been a top QB, but he had ZERO chance here. Anyhow, always liked JC. Seems like a real good dude who never openly said anything bad about the organization when he certainly could have. Just a class act.[/quote]

Coach Killer.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1070191]I am saying there is NO clear number 1 QB that makes you go wow! Hence why I said what I said l, and I will continue to say it. If KC was in this draft there would be talk of him being in the group with the "top" QBs[/quote]

I read an article that projected Manziel to go #1 over all. Then I flicked on NFLN to find Charlie Casserly say that Manziel will drop out of the first round.

Such supports your contention. No one talked this way about Luck, Bradford, etc. A bunch of different QBs MIGHT go in the 1st this year.

Re: Cousins Open to Trade.
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/06/nobodys-calling-the-redskins-about-kirk-cousins/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs]Nobody’s calling the Redskins about Kirk Cousins | ProFootballTalk[/url]