Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1074665]I've said before that most of us, myself included, don't really care about Native Americans. Sure, I hope they can be afforded the best opportunities possible. And it's shameful what's happened to them. But a) their struggles are not top of mind for me ever, and b) (as horrible as it sounds) I'm honestly more fascinated than ashamed of things like the "Trail of Tears" I mean it was a horrible, terrible thing but their historical oppression doesn't make me want to rally for their support.

Likewise, nor does all the current problems NA communities now face-poverty, alcoholism, illiteracy, etc. But they are legit problems.

Anyhow, what I'm getting at is I think if you were to inject most of these NAs, like Ms. Blackhorse, with a truth serum. They would tell you that in reality the name isn't so offensive to them. And it's not really what they care about. But it's an easy way to get their voice heard. And their hope, I believe, is to leverage this cause for further awareness and help for more important needs for their communities.

Unfortunately, like I've said before, I think they'll find that most people who are so concerned about them when it comes to making sure their feelings don't get hurt because of a word that honestly no one truly associates with them, don't and won't care when it comes to other issues plaguing them.

I, for one, won't pretend like I ever cared[/quote]

I don't want the name changed either but I don't say eff 'em. It's a complicated issue, it's a complicated history to a great country.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=Mattyk;1074705]Name change would almost certainly involve a logo change as well.[/quote]

I would hope not. Seriously, what is offensive about the helmet logo? It works with Warriors or Braves.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1074711]I would hope not. Seriously, what is offensive about the helmet logo? It works with Warriors or Braves.[/quote]

.....AND it was created, redesigned, whatever, by a Native American artist.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

I personally don't like any of the names in the poll.

Can we buy the name "Maryland/Virginia Destroyers"?

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

Hail to the Braveskins!! Redskins is the one and only name.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

Rebels is a great name.

Renegades is sort if sexy, but how would you abbrebiate it? Rens? Gades? No to that one.

Redtails and Redhawks are lame.

Bravehearts just doesn't work for me.

Cavaliers and Rangers are both solid names, but MLB already has the Rangers and they suck now, and the NBA already has the Cavs and we can't take the chance of bringing Cleveland's curse here.

Warriors would be great, if only the country wasn't going down the crapper. I suppose we could use the Warriors in a non-Native American sense, but if that would be the case, nope, don't want it.

Skins has been thrown around, and that's just bizarre. Do we really want our team called the Skins? What does that even mean? What kind of skin would we be putting our putting our pride in? Heck no.

Washington FC=Bam!

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

I'm such a racist.

[URL=http://s600.photobucket.com/user/ram29jackson/media/A%201%20WEEKLY%20PHOTOS/000011111red_zps2cfc74ba.jpg.html][IMG]http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/ram29jackson/A%201%20WEEKLY%20PHOTOS/000011111red_zps2cfc74ba.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Chiefs n Blackhawks for extra credit lol



I may not be a hardcore knowledgeable Redskins fan but I like most teams and sports in general and I like this old school logo

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

I have the new team name right here:

The Washington Redshins

You change one letter, wear burgundy socks, and everything else remains more or less the same.

It's not a retread name or some dumb soccer sounding name.

The Redshins.

Thoughts?

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1074701]The name is debatable but I really don't get why the logo would be objectionable to anyone. I think it represents Native Americans as confident and proud. That's a good thing, right?[/quote]

I think that Amanda Blackhorse's opposition is that the logo represents a frozen stereotype which doesn't represent most dynamic 21st century Indians. But I am just surmising this from the rest of her argument - she didn't flat out say this when I was listening. And I am not offering my agreement, just summarizing her voice.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

Warriors is a fairly wide encompassing term. If people have a problem with that might as well just get rid of all nicknames. I'm just glad pigskins isn't in this poll.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=Mattyk;1074723]Warriors is a fairly wide encompassing term. If people have a problem with that might as well just get rid of all nicknames. I'm just glad pigskins isn't in this poll.[/quote]

why not ? Pigskins is a cool ..like a 1940s kind of team name

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=ram29jackson;1074725]why not ? Pigskins is a cool ..like a 1940s kind of team name[/quote]

Horrible. The word belongs on a menu not on a jersey.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=ram29jackson;1074725]why not ? Pigskins is a cool ..like a 1940s kind of team name[/quote]

PETA would lose their shit over that name...somehow

The Washington Magi

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

If they do change it, I'm going to guess and say it will be some type of gov't related name. At least until I take offense to it because anything gov't related other than "Washington Greedy Dumbasses In Charge" is unacceptable.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=Chico23231;1074727]PETA would lose their shit over that name...somehow[/quote]

answer A- lol good point


answer B- another pointless organization

answer C- somewhere out there is a animal rights activist hiding in a closet eating beef jerky with an indian logo on the bag

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[IMG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_dqiper7Fm7g/S9nqsSe5W1I/AAAAAAAAPfs/P_l1v1yu3EM/s1600/pemmican-beef-jerky-original.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

Red Clouds.

He was the first Native American delegate in DC.

I still don't want to change the name nor do I really see a need for it

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1074711]I would hope not. Seriously, what is offensive about the helmet logo? It works with Warriors or Braves.[/quote]

It's no less offensive than the name.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

Rebels is a no go. Had a team named that in my little league 20 years ago...one of the original teams in a historic league. Had to change it because some parents decided that since the South were called the Rebels in the civil war it was offensive.

Not kidding.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

^^ I went to junior high school (you know, before they had "Middle School") in southern Prince George's County. My school [I][B]was[/B][/I] the Roger B. Taney Junior High (Taney was the Supreme Court Chief Justice who wrote the Dredd Scott decision), the school colors were red and grey, and the mascot was the Rebels.

It is now the Thurgood Marshall Middle School and its mascot is the Tigers. Their colors are Maroon, gold and black.

[QUOTE=FRPLG;1074735]Rebels is a no go. Had a team named that in my little league 20 years ago...one of the original teams in a historic league. Had to change it because some parents decided that since the South were called the Rebels in the civil war it was offensive.

Not kidding.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;1074736]^^ I went to junior high school (you know, before they had "Middle School") in southern Prince George's County. My school [I][B]was[/B][/I] the Roger B. Taney Junior High (Taney was the Supreme Court Chief Justice who wrote the Dredd Scott decision), the school colors were red and grey, and the mascot was the Rebels.

It is now the Thurgood Marshall Middle School and its mascot is the Tigers. Their colors are Maroon, gold and black.[/QUOTE]

I hear ya...I live in Fairfax County, and the mascot for Fairfax High School used to be the Rebels. It is now the Pride {as in a pride of lions}, and the school users the monicker "Feel our Rebel Pride" if you can believe that.

Sent from my RCT6378W2

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=Mattyk;1074723]Warriors is a fairly wide encompassing term. If people have a problem with that might as well just get rid of all nicknames. I'm just glad pigskins isn't in this poll.[/quote]

I agree that Warriors is an encompassing term but as I recall Marquette U was called the Warriors until they were forced to change to the Golden Eagles.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

I don't like any of the names in the poll so I voted for Washington FC as a default.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=mooby;1074729]If they do change it, I'm going to guess and say it will be some type of gov't related name. At least until I take offense to it because anything gov't related other than "Washington Greedy Dumbasses In Charge" is unacceptable.[/quote]

"Greedy Dumbasses in Charge" is a little too long. Just change it to "Crooks".

"Beltway Bandits" is another possible government-related name.

Actually, if the name is going to be government-related it should be an acronym. What about "PALS"? No one could object to the name "PALS". It would stand for "Piss on you Asshole Liberals".

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

The names I selected for the polls are the ones I've heard most commonly as choices. But I replaced Pigskins with Washington FC because I think Pigskins sounds like it should be a minor league baseball or Arena Football 2 team name:

Warriors: Eh. Do we need two teams in the DC area with alliterative names?

Renegades: Not bad, can keep HTTR

Rebels: I understand the arguments against it, hadn't realized that before

Redtails: I like the history and significance

Redhawks: Is it redhawks or red hawks?

Bravehearts: No

Washington FC: Is it FC Washington or Washington FC?

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=Lotus;1074722]I think that Amanda Blackhorse's opposition is that the logo represents a frozen stereotype which doesn't represent most dynamic 21st century Indians. But I am just surmising this from the rest of her argument - she didn't flat out say this when I was listening. And I am not offering my agreement, just summarizing her voice.[/quote]

She's gotta understand that many mascot names/logos of the NFL and other leagues represent times in history. Why does the logo have to represent the 21st century Native American? The Patriots' logo does not represent the 21st century Patriot. The Vikings logo most certainly doesn't. The 49er's mascot name represents the gold rush back in the 1800's for Pete's sake. These names are often created from a piece of this country (and that general area's) history, and doesn't have to be updated to reflect modern culture. Progressive thinking doesn't mean tossing history aside like a worn out pair of shoes.

In my opinion, I think it's great having historic names and symbols used in professional sports - especially if your children are watching the games with you. It gives you a chance to teach them about where the names came from and history itself. Because Lord knows, there are plenty special interest groups like this one who's sole purpose is to revise history and leave out parts that might "offend" someone. Please! History isn't all roses and ice-cream. Much of it is quite bloody - just like football.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that when you see the Cowboys and Redskins on the field, they are going into "battle" against each other. It's almost like going to a reenactment of a historic war battle. Most of these NFL names represent some type of warrior or solider - whether human or animal (Patriots/Bears), and most represent a specific time period. Heck, the way people keep revising history, the NFL might be the only place to get a history lesson from.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=irish;1074745]I agree that Warriors is an encompassing term but as I recall Marquette U was called the Warriors until they were forced to change to the Golden Eagles.[/quote]

Yup. And the primary complaint was that the Warriors was alongside Native American imagery.

Anyone honestly suggesting Warriors as an option needs to do their homework. We'll be back in the same boat eventually, it's just a matter of time.

The people demanding the name change and suggesting Warriors as an alternative... well, it shows how much they know about the offensiveness they claim to care so much about.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

First post here: Read through this thread, and I gotta say I really appreciate the rational, level-headed discussion on such a hot-button issue. This discussion can get ugly, fast.

I fall somewhere in "camp 3;" I don't necessarily want the name to change, but I'm going to continue supporting the team if it does. I do think the team hadn't done themselves any favors with how awfully they handled this. PR disaster after PR disaster. "Chief" Dodson? Oy vey.

I see both sides of the issue, and I firmly believe there are both Native American Redskins fans (I've met a few on other boards) who love the name and take honor from it, as well as Native Americans who are very offended by what they view as a mockery of their culture.

Bottom line, it's a complex issue with no clear "right" answer; is this the first domino to removing all Native American symbolism from everything? Where do you draw the line? What happens to all the Jeep Cherokees on the road? What about our military?

There are a lot of questions this brings up. For me, I think as a society we should be focused on fixing the problems on reservations, not the name of an NFL team, but who knows?

Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

How about all the towns or counties out there with Indian names, I know here in NY we have a ton, do we get rid of them too? Where does it end?

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=Mattyk;1074757]How about all the towns or counties out there with Indian names, I know here in NY we have a ton, do we get rid of them too? Where does it end?[/quote]

Exactly. Oklahoma is Choctaw for "Red People," will that have to change? I don't know where the line will be drawn, or if it's Pandora's Box, and once opened, there's no saving anything with any Native American related symbolism.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=Mattyk;1074757]How about all the towns or counties out there with Indian names, I know here in NY we have a ton, do we get rid of them too? Where does it end?[/quote]

The claim seems to be that Native American imagery and words are theirs to be used at their discretion.

So... to answer your questions....

If they want us to get rid of them, we have to.

It ends when they say it ends.

At least, that's the way they want it.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

One thing we are not doing, we are not changing the song. eff that. I want to hear it everytime we score.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=tshile;1074755]Yup. And the primary complaint was that the Warriors was alongside Native American imagery.

[B]Anyone honestly suggesting Warriors as an option needs to do their homework. We'll be back in the same boat eventually, it's just a matter of time.[/B]

The people demanding the name change and suggesting Warriors as an alternative... well, it shows how much they know about the offensiveness they claim to care so much about.[/quote]Wrong. My high school mascot was The Warriors, but it's always represented as a knight or Robin Hood-type figure (Sherwood HS, apparently named that because the woods nearby were like those in the Robin Hood legend). Apparently back in the day they did us NA symbols but that got changed a long time ago.
Personally, I've always liked the idea of the name Warriors with an ancient Greek solider look. I thought it fit in with the designs of many of the buildings around The Mall in DC.
In either case, [I]apparently [/I]it's okay to use European style imagery, at least for now.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=HoustonSkinsFan;1074756]First post here: Read through this thread, and I gotta say I really appreciate the rational, level-headed discussion on such a hot-button issue. This discussion can get ugly, fast.

I fall somewhere in "camp 3;" I don't necessarily want the name to change, but I'm going to continue supporting the team if it does. I do think the team hadn't done themselves any favors with how awfully they handled this. PR disaster after PR disaster. "Chief" Dodson? Oy vey.

I see both sides of the issue, and I firmly believe there are both Native American Redskins fans (I've met a few on other boards) who love the name and take honor from it, as well as Native Americans who are very offended by what they view as a mockery of their culture.

Bottom line, it's a complex issue with no clear "right" answer; is this the first domino to removing all Native American symbolism from everything? Where do you draw the line? What happens to all the Jeep Cherokees on the road? What about our military?

There are a lot of questions this brings up. For me, I think as a society we should be focused on fixing the problems on reservations, not the name of an NFL team, but who knows?[/quote]Excellent first post! Welcome to the board.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=Chico23231;1074761]One thing we are not doing, we are not changing the song. eff that. I want to hear it everytime we score.[/quote]

Or the colors. The B&G is forever.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;1074765]Wrong. My high school mascot was The Warriors, but it's always represented as a knight or Robin Hood-type figure (Sherwood HS, apparently named that because the woods nearby were like those in the Robin Hood legend). Apparently back in the day they did us NA symbols but that got changed a long time ago.
Personally, I've always liked the idea of the name Warriors with an ancient Greek solider look. I thought it fit in with the designs of many of the buildings around The Mall in DC.
In either case, [I]apparently [/I]it's okay to use European style imagery, at least for now.[/quote]

Well, the suggestion to use Warriors is normally accompanied with "... and keep the logo and the colors and the rest of the imagery" which I didn't really mention in the part you seem to object to.

So yes - if they change it to warriors [b]and[/b] move away from the Native American imagery then that would work. But that's rarely the suggestion... the people suggesting Warriors and keeping everything else have not researched the issue well enough to realize that the name Warriors, when accompanied with Native American imagery, has been protested as disparaging/offensive/etc before. That was my point ;)

So if the concern is about offending Native Americans... changing to Warriors and keeping everything else the same is not an option....

I think if you offered Warriors as the option and said we'll change to some european/mid-evil theme.... i think you're going to see support for the Warriors idea drop dramatically, but I'm just guessing.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=skinsguy;1074752]

1.Progressive thinking doesn't mean tossing history aside like a worn out pair of shoes.

2. In my opinion, I think it's great having historic names and symbols used in professional sports - especially if your children are watching the games with you. It gives you a chance to teach them about where the names came from and history itself.

3. Most of these NFL names represent some type of warrior or solider - whether human or animal (Patriots/Bears), and most represent a specific time period. [/quote]

You make some excellent points. I parsed your post a little in order to comment on certain points you made.

1. Unfortunately, many progressives do want to toss aside any part of history that they don't like. I remember when many inner city public schools were taking down portraits of past U.S. Presidents to get rid of "the old white guys". Feminists call those of the feminine gender "women" and diminish those of the masculine gender by calling them "males". Today, there are schools in California that fly the Mexican flag. Radicals are all about manipulating others through symbolism and word usage. They are not concerned with the things we have in common that reinforce our unity.

2. I have often told my children and grandchildren about the historical meaning of some NFL nicknames.

3. Few sports teams have ever been named after doves or bunnies.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

I was a Wakefield Warrior (Arlington, VA), complete with Native America imagery. I can't remember any controversy back in the late 90s while I was there (I graduated a year before the Skins lost the trademark in 99), but then again I'm not sure how much attention I was paying either way.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=tshile;1074768]Well, the suggestion to use Warriors is normally accompanied with "... and keep the logo and the colors and the rest of the imagery" which I didn't really mention in the part you seem to object to.

So yes - if they change it to warriors [b]and[/b] move away from the Native American imagery then that would work. But that's rarely the suggestion... the people suggesting Warriors and keeping everything else have not researched the issue well enough to realize that the name Warriors, when accompanied with Native American imagery, has been protested as disparaging/offensive/etc before. That was my point ;)

So if the concern is about offending Native Americans... changing to Warriors and keeping everything else the same is not an option....

I think if you offered Warriors as the option and said we'll change to some european/mid-evil theme.... i think you're going to see support for the Warriors idea drop dramatically, but I'm just guessing.[/quote]

Our own U.S. soldiers are warriors. Use the head of a helmeted U.S. soldier as the logo. Rewrite the words of the team song "Hail to the Warriors" and keep the team colors. Done.