Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

So Shenanigan got a five year plan and Gruden got a ten week plan.
Makes sense.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=punch it in;1094571]So Shenanigan got a five year plan and Gruden got a ten week plan.
Makes sense.[/quote]

Mike's resume was a little more polished. A couple of Super Bowls buys you some benefit of the doubt.

Why does it make sense to doubt RG3 for 13 quarters worth of work in this offense, yet let Gruden off the hook for 10 games? They're both pulling failing grades at this point to me.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Mattyk;1094573]Mike's resume was a little more polished. A couple of Super Bowls buys you some benefit of the doubt.

Why does it make sense to doubt RG3 for 13 quarters worth of work in this offense, yet let Gruden off the hook for 10 games? They're both pulling failing grades at this point to me.[/quote]

Because Griffin's started over 30 games now. Plus a lot of the same pass concepts that are in Shanahan's offense are in this one. Gruden can't force Griffin to hit open receivers. He either does it or he doesn't. Also this isn't Gruden's hand picked guy.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[b]Rodney Harrison I Think You Have To Get Rid Of RG3[/b]

[url]http://deadspin.com/rodney-harrison-i-think-you-have-to-get-rid-of-rgiii-1659618699[/url]

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

I wouldn't have faith in Gruden picking a guy. Can't forget this coach has a track record doing some very questionable things with his offense. Giving up on the running game was a big problem in Cincy, and Gruden still hasn't learned.

He came to a team that struggled at pass protection in front of a developing QB who's been through the ringer, but that same line excelled at run blocking and we have a bruiser back. I would have committed to the run to set up play action pass to these great receivers. Gruden forced a lot of mid range passes, not RG's strength to begin with, and we see a lot of lousy run plays. And Gruden clearly doesn't demand his perimeter players block.
I just don't see anything in his playbook or leadership that merits a pro HC job.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1094573]Mike's resume was a little more polished. A couple of Super Bowls buys you some benefit of the doubt.



Why does it make sense to doubt RG3 for 13 quarters worth of work in this offense, yet let Gruden off the hook for 10 games? They're both pulling failing grades at this point to me.[/QUOTE]


Honestly because We have seen Mccoy win in this offense. We have seen Cousins light it up in this offense but he is colorblind so...
Griff seems absolutely lost in this offense.

Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

Also shouldnt the polished superbowl winning coach be able to turn garbage into gold sooner than the rook? So again Shanny - the accomplished and polished super bowl winner needed five years to fix things. Gruden who inherited as big a pile of crap Shanny did is supposed to do it in ten weeks? Makes no sense.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Mattyk;1094573]Mike's resume was a little more polished. A couple of Super Bowls buys you some benefit of the doubt.

Why does it make sense to doubt RG3 for 13 quarters worth of work in this offense, yet let Gruden off the hook for 10 games? They're both pulling failing grades at this point to me.[/quote]

Can we just move the Redskins to the ACC and be done with it. I am telling you we could win that 4 team playoff.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

10 games in and everyone is already giving up on the new coach.
I think people forget how bad this team was last year, and how much talent this team lacks.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=punch it in;1094584]Also shouldnt the polished superbowl winning coach be able to turn garbage into gold sooner than the rook? So again Shanny - the accomplished and polished super bowl winner needed five years to fix things. Gruden who inherited as big a pile of crap Shanny did is supposed to do it in ten weeks? Makes no sense.[/quote]

I hope this doesnt come as a shock but its going to take longer than 5 years to fix this mess.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=irish;1094612]I hope this doesnt come as a shock but its going to take longer than 5 years to fix this mess.[/QUOTE]


Lol. Probably but my point was just that the first year headcoach facing basically the same mess that the established one did should be afforded the same honeymoon period.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=punch it in;1094613]Lol. Probably but my point was just that the first year headcoach facing basically the same mess that the established one did should be afforded the same honeymoon period.[/quote]

Without a doubt one of the top 2 reasons the Skins are such a mess is the coaching carousel. They showed on tv on Sun that the Skins have had 7 coaches since Y2K. Its impossible to ever establish any kind of consistency when the system is changing so often. Successful teams dont change coaches every couple of years.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=punch it in;1094613]Lol. Probably but my point was just that the first year headcoach facing basically the same mess that the established one did should be afforded the same honeymoon period.[/quote]

NFW! I'm too old for this shit. I might die before we become winners. At this point in my life, I wouldn't give Belichick more than two years.

BTW, the established NFL HC has earned a longer contract than the rookie because he has proven he can do the job, whereas the rookie has not yet proven himself as an NFL HC. That's why so many companies have probationary periods for new hires.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=punch it in;1094584]Also shouldnt the polished superbowl winning coach be able to turn garbage into gold sooner than the rook? So again Shanny - the accomplished and polished super bowl winner needed five years to fix things. Gruden who inherited as big a pile of crap Shanny did is supposed to do it in ten weeks? Makes no sense.[/quote]

Absolutely agree. What is going to be accomplished by firing Gruden after one year and not fixing anything else?

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=irish;1094615]Without a doubt one of the top 2 reasons the Skins are such a mess is the coaching carousel. They showed on tv on Sun that the Skins have had 7 coaches since Y2K. Its impossible to ever establish any kind of consistency when the system is changing so often. Successful teams dont change coaches every couple of years.[/quote]

Absolutely. While coaches do tend to have some say in talent options, ultimately, they have to coach the talent the front office brings in. So, in my opinion, if anything needs constant change until the right people are in the right positions, it should be the front office. The coach deserves at least two seasons. If there are no signs of improvement in season two, then can him. But to throw all of this at the feet of Jay Gruden, and the first season isn't even over yet, is a bit ridiculous. Sure, he shoulders the blame, he's the head coach. But, if he is to be fired after just one season, then the owner had better send pink slips to the rest of the coaches, the front office staff, the waterboy, the trainers, Skinsguy, everybody! Because 15 years of constant losing (save for a season or two) is more than an issue with the head coach. I understand that the front office is not the same front office as to when Vinny Cerrato was here, but other than the money part of player contracts, the product has not improved at all.

And just like what Brian Mitchell said, until the fans stop supporting this team by throwing their hard earned money at this mess, the message is never going to get through to the owner. It is about time the fans demand a better product, not just hope for it.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

Let Gruden have a year to draft and build.
Let Griffin play this year and see if he develops in the pocket.
Lets get a safety who can replace Clark for effective safety play.
Lets stop making each game a melodramatic teen adventure series and let the professional players and coaches take this time to pursue their craft.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=skinsguy;1094621]Absolutely. While coaches do tend to have some say in talent options, ultimately, they have to coach the talent the front office brings in. So, in my opinion, if anything needs constant change until the right people are in the right positions, it should be the front office. The coach deserves at least two seasons. If there are no signs of improvement in season two, then can him. But to throw all of this at the feet of Jay Gruden, and the first season isn't even over yet, is a bit ridiculous. Sure, he shoulders the blame, he's the head coach. But, if he is to be fired after just one season, then the owner had better send pink slips to the rest of the coaches, the front office staff, the waterboy, the trainers, Skinsguy, everybody! Because 15 years of constant losing (save for a season or two) is more than an issue with the head coach. I understand that the front office is not the same front office as to when Vinny Cerrato was here, but other than the money part of player contracts, the product has not improved at all.

And just like what Brian Mitchell said, until the fans stop supporting this team by throwing their hard earned money at this mess, the message is never going to get through to the owner. It is about time the fans demand a better product, not just hope for it.[/quote]

2 seasons is not even close to enough time to know if a coach will work out.

The sad part is that this new front office isnt really doing any better than Vinny. Cerrato.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Redskins247;1094439]The name can't be the curse...they had too many good years with that name. The curse is Snyder...and unfortunately, he can't be lifted.[/quote]

Perhaps you're both right

The two combined have created a signularity of suckitude from which nothing can escape

[IMG]http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE0LzA3LzMwL2I0L2ludGVyc3RlbGxhLjc1YTYzLnBuZwpwCXRodW1iCTEyMDB4OTYwMD4/a8bce0de/29d/interstellar.black_.hole_.png[/IMG]

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

Look at it this way. If Washington was in the NFC South, they'd be right in the thick of the division race.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;1094629]Look at it this way. If Washington was in the NFC South, they'd be right in the thick of the division race.[/quote]

Look at it this way, if the Cowboys would have beaten Washington on Monday night, they would have sole possession of first place in the NFC East.

Why are you showing up now?? Just to troll??

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

It's not going to matter if we think Gruden should be given more time, or should be fired...if the Skins only win say one more game or lose out, and RGIII continues to look as bad as he does now in this offense, Snyder will fire him. Because RGIII most definitely WILL BE HERE next year and will be the starter because Snyder loves him...and so Snyder will say Gruden cannot win with his QB...so he's out.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=skinsguy;1094621]Absolutely. While coaches do tend to have some say in talent options, ultimately, they have to coach the talent the front office brings in. So, in my opinion, if anything needs constant change until the right people are in the right positions, it should be the front office. The coach deserves at least two seasons. If there are no signs of improvement in season two, then can him. But to throw all of this at the feet of Jay Gruden, and the first season isn't even over yet, is a bit ridiculous. Sure, he shoulders the blame, he's the head coach. But, if he is to be fired after just one season, then the owner had better send pink slips to the rest of the coaches, the front office staff, the waterboy, the trainers, Skinsguy, everybody! Because 15 years of constant losing (save for a season or two) is more than an issue with the head coach. I understand that the front office is not the same front office as to when Vinny Cerrato was here, but other than the money part of player contracts, the product has not improved at all.

[B]And just like what Brian Mitchell said, until the fans stop supporting this team by throwing their hard earned money at this mess, the message is never going to get through to the owner. It is about time the fans demand a better product, not just hope for it.[/B][/quote]
It will never happen. They know how to get the fanbase excited. They'll sign more free agents, probably will overpay for Suh, the fans will get jacked up and everyone will be sucked right back in. It happens every year.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1094613]Lol. Probably but my point was just that the first year headcoach facing basically the same mess that the established one did should be afforded the same honeymoon period.[/QUOTE]


I'm not saying fire him, just that so far he's not doing a good job. And fair or not if he doesn't start winning some games he's going to be on the hot seat sooner rather than later.

The honeymoon is over, we need to start seeing some signs that he can get things on the right track. So far he's shown to have little command over the locker room and the team is seriously underperforming across the board.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1094635]I'm not saying fire him, just that so far he's not doing a good job. And fair or not if he doesn't start winning some games he's going to be on the hot seat sooner rather than later.

The honeymoon is over, we need to start seeing some signs that he can get things on the right track. So far he's shown to have little command over the locker room and the team is seriously underperforming across the board.[/QUOTE]


I know you arent calling for his head, and I am certainly not voting him coach of the year. Lol. This team has been a hot mess for a long time before he got here. Thats all.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

Can't fairly judge Gruden until he gets his QB in here. Clearly, RG3 is not his guy.

Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1094617]NFW! I'm too old for this shit. I might die before we become winners. At this point in my life, I wouldn't give Belichick more than two years.



BTW, the established NFL HC has earned a longer contract than the rookie because he has proven he can do the job, whereas the rookie has not yet proven himself as an NFL HC. That's why so many companies have probationary periods for new hires.[/QUOTE]


Im not saying they should have given him a five year contract. Far from it. Of course Gruden has to make his bones.
However to expect him to make a 3-13 team into something we can all be proud of in ten weeks with one draft where we didnt even have a first round pick with THREE different qb's starting in such a short time and the most horrible DC in the league(that he had nothing to do with is ludicrous!
Edit: I agree with Matty that he has not shown enough even under these circumstances but the circumstances outweigh his lack of show imo.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

this got bad pretty quick.

i expect .. RG3 to play out the season barring a player revolt.

i expect Jay Gruden at some point having to give up his NFL playbook and just call easy to read plays for RG3 that is not dependent on precise timing like screens, drags etc.

i do not expect a vote of confidence in Gruden from allen or DS.

i expect to be offered free skins tickets for the rest of the home games.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=irish;1094624]2 seasons is not even close to enough time to know if a coach will work out.

The sad part is that this new front office isnt really doing any better than Vinny. Cerrato.[/quote]

True on both counts!

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1094634]It will never happen. They know how to get the fanbase excited. They'll sign more free agents, probably will overpay for Suh, the fans will get jacked up and everyone will be sucked right back in. It happens every year.[/quote]

You're absolutely right! Every year I say I'm not throwing money I don't have to NFL Sunday Ticket to watch the 'skins, yet every year I do it. Of course this year, I'm disconnecting from DirecTV as soon as the season is over with.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Mattyk;1094635]I'm not saying fire him, just that so far he's not doing a good job. And fair or not if he doesn't start winning some games he's going to be on the hot seat sooner rather than later.

The honeymoon is over, we need to start seeing some signs that he can get things on the right track. So far he's shown to have little command over the locker room and the team is seriously underperforming across the board.[/quote]

What were your expectations coming into the season for them to be under performing? I could care less if he loses this locker room. It isn't his locker room and I wouldn't mind him cleaning house and bringing in his own locker room.

Most coaches don't adjust to their locker rooms. They just bring in guys they want.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[url=http://mmqb.si.com/2014/11/18/robert-griffin-iii-jay-gruden-washington-problems/]Jay Gruden's comments about Robert Griffin III portend deeper problems | The MMQB with Peter King[/url]

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[url=http://mmqb.si.com/2014/11/18/robert-griffin-iii-rg3-washington-nfl/]Injuries can’t explain away QB Robert Griffin III’s ongoing struggles | The MMQB with Peter King[/url]

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;1094645][url=http://mmqb.si.com/2014/11/18/robert-griffin-iii-jay-gruden-washington-problems/]Jay Gruden's comments about Robert Griffin III portend deeper problems | The MMQB with Peter King[/url][/QUOTE]


Pretty clear cut. This gets back to what my biggest fear has been since 2012. That Griff doesnt have the talent inside him to be the type of qb you need to be in this league to win consistently. Not all great guitar players can learn how to play a violin. Not all great bakers can cook a perfect steak. Not all great painters can sculpt a perfect statue. They can probably do these things better than the average guy but for what we paid, and for what we need that is not good enough. We need him to be great. If we had a killer d, and a killer oline than maybe we could accept average. We do not and we can not.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=punch it in;1094639]Im not saying they should have given him a five year contract. Far from it. Of course Gruden has to make his bones.
However to expect him to make a 3-13 team into something we can all be proud of in ten weeks with one draft where we didnt even have a first round pick with THREE different qb's starting in such a short time and the most horrible DC in the league(that he had nothing to do with is ludicrous!
Edit: I agree with Matty that he has not shown enough even under these circumstances but the circumstances outweigh his lack of show imo.[/quote]

What you say makes sense and I'm trying to not pick on Jay Gruden who was handed a huge task and who does need at least two years before he can be fairly evaluated.

My problem is that I don't have any confidence in the entire cast of characters from Tampa Bay who are now running this club - none of them, from Bruce Allen on down. For goodness sakes, they even hired Doug Williams for some inexplicable reason. If Snyder was going to hire a bunch of people from one organization, then he should have at least picked a good organization.

Unless the Skins show significant improvement by the end of next year, I would like to see the entire Tampa Bay fraternity gone. And if the rest of them go, then poor Jay may have to go with his fraternity brothers, whether that's fair or not.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1094655]What you say makes sense and I'm trying to not pick on Jay Gruden who was handed a huge task and who does need at least two years before he can be fairly evaluated.



My problem is that I don't have any confidence in the entire cast of characters from Tampa Bay who are now running this club - none of them, from Bruce Allen on down. For goodness sakes, they even hired Doug Williams for some inexplicable reason. If Snyder was going to hire a bunch of people from one organization, then he should have at least picked a good organization.



Unless the Skins show significant improvement by the end of next year, I would like to see the entire Tampa Bay fraternity gone. And if the rest of them go, then poor Jay may have to go with his fraternity brothers, whether that's fair or not.[/QUOTE]


Agree 1000%. Allen sucks. Probably should have mentioned him as yet another problem a first year HC has to deal with.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=punch it in;1094648]Pretty clear cut. This gets back to what my biggest fear has been since 2012. That Griff doesnt have the talent inside him to be the type of qb you need to be in this league to win consistently. Not all great guitar players can learn how to play a violin. Not all great bakers can cook a perfect steak. Not all great painters can sculpt a perfect statue. They can probably do these things better than the average guy but for what we paid, and for what we need that is not good enough. We need him to be great. If we had a killer d, and a killer oline than maybe we could accept average. We do not and we can not.[/quote]

The problem with your analogy is that RGIII has all of the skills to "learn the violin," so the problem is not talent.

What holds back RGIII is in his head.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=Kope;1094569]All I could think of was Eddie Murphy in Trading Places...[/QUOTE]


Lmao. Exactly.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1094655]What you say makes sense and I'm trying to not pick on Jay Gruden who was handed a huge task and who does need at least two years before he can be fairly evaluated.

My problem is that I don't have any confidence in the entire cast of characters from Tampa Bay who are now running this club - none of them, from Bruce Allen on down. For goodness sakes, they even hired Doug Williams for some inexplicable reason. If Snyder was going to hire a bunch of people from one organization, then he should have at least picked a good organization.

Unless the Skins show significant improvement by the end of next year, I would like to see the entire Tampa Bay fraternity gone. And if the rest of them go, then poor Jay may have to go with his fraternity brothers, whether that's fair or not.[/quote]

FWIW a while back ago the Chiefs hired a people from the Pats and that didn't work out well.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=Lotus;1094660]The problem with your analogy is that RGIII has all of the skills to "learn the violin," so the problem is not talent.



What holds back RGIII is in his head.[/QUOTE]


A great guitar player has talent. - talent to be just that - a great guitar player. Doesnt mean he can take that talent and apply it to a violin.
Griff is a great spread offense/ read option type qb. Doesnt mean he can apply that to a pro style offense. If he could dont you think we would be seeing an inkling of that?
He can tell him self that he can do it all he wants. I need to see it to believe it.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Lotus;1094660]The problem with your analogy is that RGIII has all of the skills to "learn the violin," so the problem is not talent.

What holds back RGIII is in his head.[/quote]

He may have the skills to learn it, but can he do it at a concert or in front of a live crowd? That's the issue. He may look ok at practice when he knows he's not going to get hit. But game time, he can't process everything at game speed. The NFL passing game seems to fast for him.