Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/20/could-gruden-be-one-and-done-in-washington/]Could Gruden be one and done in Washington? | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Penned directly by Florio for no other reason to just pile on the Skins.

If Florio passes tomorrow i wouldnt shed a tear, might even crack a smile

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

So now Gruden is basically told to apologize and point out that he was a bad little boy for blaming one guy. Fuck that Griff deserves to be called out. Neither Jerry Jones nor Danny Boy are qualified to make football decisions, but at least Jerry is not hiding behind closed doors doing it. This is sickening. Just sickening.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1095016]So now Gruden is basically told to apologize and point out that he was a bad little boy for blaming one guy. Fuck that Griff deserves to be called out. Neither Jerry Jones nor Danny Boy are qualified to make football decisions, but at least Jerry is not hiding behind closed doors doing it. This is sickening. Just sickening.[/quote]

He shouldn't of called RG3 out. Yet, I didn't have a problem with it. He should stick to speaking as a whole rather calling someone out.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Skinzman;1094973]Here is part of the problem. We scored 26 against Minny, including an 80 yard 4th quarter drive when Minny had driven for a TD themselves. Only to let Minny do a second length of the field drive in the 4th quarter to beat us. The defense gave up 15 in the 4th quarter, they straight up crapped the bed as bad as RG3 did against Tampa Bay.



We win that game pretty easily if a crappy offense led by a rookie QB missing their best player doesnt score 15 points in the 4th quarter with not 1, but 2 70+ yard 4th quarter drives.



For as much as people keep referencing what Cooley said about RG3 this week. In that same article Cooley says he thinks RG3 played pretty well against Minny. He certainly wasnt the reason we lost.[/QUOTE]


You are forgetting that if our offense is clicking it keeps our terrible defense off the field. We won three games this year - all were without Griff. You play the guy who gives u the best chance to win. Not the guy who the owner has a man crush on!

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Bucket;1095017]He shouldn't of called RG3 out. Yet, I didn't have a problem with it. He should stick to speaking as a whole rather calling someone out.[/QUOTE]


Maybe so but to be made to go back and apologize with ur tail between your legs just makes our coach look like a puppet and our qb look like a spoiled kid who got upset and had DADDY Snyder make things rite. That is the public perception of how this all went down now even if Griff had nothing to do with it. We just keep digging the hole deeper. No effin free agent or coach is going to want anything to do with this shit show of an organization.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1095020]Maybe so but to be made to go back and apologize with ur tail between your legs just makes our coach look like a puppet and our qb look like a spoiled kid who got upset and had DADDY Snyder make things rite. That is the public perception of how this all went down now even if Griff had nothing to do with it. We just keep digging the hole deeper. No effin free agent or coach is going to want anything to do with this shit show of an organization.[/quote]

Because you are making the Franchise QB value go down by saying things like that. The NFL is a business first, and when you under value a player who has marketing worth. It'll be a bad thing. I'm sure that is what Snyder said to Jay.

I don't think he "spanked" him at all

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1095012]What you describe is not dysfunctional. It is standard management practice in countless businesses. Gruden has bosses and he is obligated implement the instructions of those bosses.

What we have here is Round 105 of discussing what we think the management structure of the Redskins ought to be. If we have a HC who has complete authority (Shanahan) then we argue that there ought to be a GM over him. If we have a HC reporting to a GM (Gruden) then we argue that the GM shouldn't tell the HC what to do.[/quote]

I think it is more a question of why we see repeated poor decisions being made and the accountability of those decisions. Whether the management practice is sound means nothing if the decisions from those practices are ineffective.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Bucket;1095017]He shouldn't of called RG3 out. Yet, I didn't have a problem with it. He should stick to speaking as a whole rather calling someone out.[/quote]

While I agree behind closed doors is always the way to go, I thought in a way it was kind of refreshing to hear it from our HC to this DC media. Because it basically trumped a their narrative.

Also, Gruden doing that was much more acceptable than RG3 deflecting blame. In the lockerroom, Gruden scored a ton of points.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Bucket;1095021]Because you are making the Franchise QB value go down by saying things like that. The NFL is a business first, and when you under value a player who has marketing worth. It'll be a bad thing. I'm sure that is what Snyder said to Jay.



I don't think he "spanked" him at all[/QUOTE]


Griff is doing a good enough job making his value go down. I think it is safe to say 10 jerseys arent flying off the rack like they used to. As far as his value to other teams...well other gm's are quite capable of seeing what he is worth on their own. You may not think he got spanked but that is the public perception and on nfl sirius radio that was what I heard the entire way to work this morning. Me and a million other people. Cant make this shit up. You really cant.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1095020]Maybe so but to be made to go back and apologize with ur tail between your legs just makes our coach look like a puppet and our qb look like a spoiled kid who got upset and had DADDY Snyder make things rite. That is the public perception of how this all went down now even if Griff had nothing to do with it. We just keep digging the hole deeper. No effin free agent or coach is going to want anything to do with this shit show of an organization.[/quote]

The perception of this franchise to the fans and media has taken serious hits lately. Personally I would like the media to ask more challenging questions to BA. The players and the coaches are always on the hot seat time to put the FO on it.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1095016]So now Gruden is basically told to apologize and point out that he was a bad little boy for blaming one guy. [/quote]

Was Gruden in fact ordered to apologize or was that assumed by either Florio or yourself? This is a straight question and not a criticism.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=BaltimoreSkins;1095026]The perception of this franchise to the fans and media has taken serious hits lately. Personally I would like the media to ask more challenging questions to BA. The players and the coaches are always on the hot seat time to put the FO on it.[/QUOTE]


You are correct. Our problem at this point is that everybody knows/thinks that DS has completely entrenched himself inside the cookie jar. I really was under the impression that he was standing back the last few years. Now I do not believe that. BA should still probably be the mouthpiece. At least it would appear that there is a chain of command in place and that our players and coaches are only worried about winning football games.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1095019]You are forgetting that if our offense is clicking it keeps our terrible defense off the field. We won three games this year - all were without Griff. You play the guy who gives u the best chance to win. Not the guy who the owner has a man crush on![/quote]

The game against Dallas was the one time our defense stepped up. The other wins were against Tenn and Jax. Even so, Colt got us 20 against the cowboys. Its not like he was tearing it up. We got 28 the next week out of RG3 against a better defense, yet he is being blamed for the loss while people are comparing Colt to Joe Montana for getting 20. KC proved if he gets hit, he goes to a three step drop and throw regardless of what team he is throwing it to. And you even admit that our defense is massively flawed. This is a team game first and foremost.

Do I believe that Colt will lead us to the playoffs? No. If its not RG3, then fine, but outside of one of the elite QB's who is going to have a lot of success on this team. There are a crap ton of problems on this team and it annoys the hell out of me to hear people claim that if we just resign Rex Grossman, we would be in the SB this year because our team is so great except the QB position, which is holding us back and turning what should be a 14-2 into a 3-13 team.

[B]Move on from RG3, Im ok with that[/B]. What I have been saying the whole time, Which you and SS among others have refused to listen to, is that we arent winning with the shit show we have as a team unless we somehow get Aaron Rodgers, which isnt happening any time soon. Colt isnt leading us anywhere. KC isnt leading us anywhere. Very few QB's are leading this crap anywhere.

So it still brings us to the fact that we will never develop a young QB with this crap team. And we arent getting one of the elites. So lets do things that make developing a QB happen instead of blaming one guy. So no, I will not blame one guy every time the OL fails. I will not blame one guy every time the defense shits the bed. The fact that you think we are a Rex Grossman signing away from a SB victory is disturbing to me.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1095026]The perception of this franchise to the fans and media has taken serious hits [B]lately[/B]. Personally I would like the media to ask more challenging questions to BA. The players and the coaches are always on the hot seat time to put the FO on it.[/quote]

Lately? Did you say [U]lately[/U]? This franchise has been rightly perceived as one huge cluster **** ever since Dan Snyder took over the reins.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1095027]Was Gruden in fact ordered to apologize or was that assumed by either Florio or yourself? This is a straight question and not a criticism.[/QUOTE]


Well what do you think? Do you think that Gruden went home and said to himself, "that wasnt very nice to say I better make this rite". I mean the two pressers were absolutely night and day. If there is one thing I believe Jay to be it is a strait shooter who is uber honest when he addresses the media. He doesnt seem indecisive in the slightest.
I completely believe he was told to make things right. Imo it made them more effed up.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

True enough. I was just referring to the current debacle when I said lately. Poor choice of word

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1095031]Well what do you think? Do you think that Gruden went home and said to himself, "that wasnt very nice to say I better make this rite". I mean the two pressers were absolutely night and day. If there is one thing I believe Jay to be it is a strait shooter who is uber honest when he addresses the media. He doesnt seem indecisive in the slightest.
I completely believe he was told to make things right. Imo it made them more effed up.[/quote]

So that was an assumption. That's OK. I get that you might assume that. Why wouldn't someone assume that based on the circumstances?

On the other hand, based on my own experiences, I think that Gruden may well have decided to apologize on his own. As a manager, I sometimes said things to employees that I later regretted saying and I apologized for on my own initiative. I apologized for saying those things in the manner or place in which they were said. It wasn't that the things I said weren't true. But they were said in a manner or place that was hurtful or embarrassing to the other person and not helpful to our relationship. He may have apologized for similar reasons.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1095035]So, that was an assumption. I get that you might assume that. Why wouldn't someone assume that based on the circumstances?



On the other hand, based on my own experiences, I think that Gruden may well have decided to apologize on his own. As a manager, I said things to employees that I later regretted saying and I then apologized on my own initiative. I apologized for saying those things in the manner or place in which they were said. It wasn't that the things I said weren't true. But they were said in a manner or place that was hurtful or embarrassing to the other person and not helpful to our relationship.[/QUOTE]


Of course we are assuming either way since neither of us know. Lets put it this way than, whether gruden did it on his own or not it was dumb. Because we both know that the world thinks he was ordered, as you said, why wouldnt they.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1095014][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/20/could-gruden-be-one-and-done-in-washington/]Could Gruden be one and done in Washington? | ProFootballTalk[/url]



Penned directly by Florio for no other reason to just pile on the Skins.



If Florio passes tomorrow i wouldnt shed a tear, might even crack a smile[/QUOTE]


At this point it's not crazy to at least bring up the possibility. We're 3-7 and full of drama just like last year. Gruden hasn't solved any of our issues. He's part of the problem now.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Mattyk;1095037]At this point it's not crazy to at least bring up the possibility. We're 3-7 and full of drama just like last year. Gruden hasn't solved any of our issues. He's part of the problem now.[/quote]

That's the most depressing post yet in this thread, Matty. (heavy sigh)

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Mattyk;1095037]At this point it's not crazy to at least bring up the possibility. We're 3-7 and full of drama just like last year. Gruden hasn't solved any of our issues. He's part of the problem now.[/quote]

This would be the worst possible move. Only if Bruce, Doug Williams goes too would I say it as even close to acceptable.

It would have to be a Browns type cleaning out...amazing to say that.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1095037]At this point it's not crazy to at least bring up the possibility. We're 3-7 and full of drama just like last year. Gruden hasn't solved any of our issues. He's part of the problem now.[/QUOTE]


Ofcourse if (IF) he truely wanted Mccoy playing after Dallas and we are 5-5 than there is no drama and he looks like a pretty wise dude. Just throwin that out there.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

If they fired Gruden I see no way they could keep Allen, RG3, or any other big influence in Washington (outside of Snyder for obvious reasons).

Like George W. Bush said... You can't fool me twice.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Chico23231;1095040]This would be the worst possible move. Only if Bruce, Doug Williams goes too would I see it as even close to acceptable.

It would have to be a Browns type cleaning out...amazing to say that.[/quote]

It would definitely be the worst possible move which is why I fully expect this dysfunctional, stupid, loser organization to make it.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Chico23231;1095040]This would be the worst possible move. Only if Bruce, Doug Williams goes too would I see it as even close to acceptable.

[B]It would have to be a Browns type cleaning out...amazing to say that.[/B][/quote]

I would love that.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=irish;1095043]It would definitely be the worst possible move which is why I fully expect this dysfunctional, stupid, loser organization to make it.[/quote]

Raiders-like

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

At this point, I really couldn't criticize any of the decision-makers concerning the choice of a starting QB. It seems to me that they have all probably done what they felt they needed to do for the needs of the business up to this point.

Nevertheless, I think that things could change dramatically if RGIII has another meltdown against the 49'ers.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

Can't fire Gruden, he is the only we have going for us.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Evilgrin;1095049]Can't fire Gruden, he is the only we have going for us.[/quote]

What is it that's "going"?
I dont see squat.....

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Evilgrin;1095049]Can't fire Gruden, he is the only we have going for us.[/quote]

How has Gruden produced? What track record speaks for him?

I'm not saying he should be fired - such would disturb team continuity (again). But he has nothing on his record which screams "keep him," either.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Lotus;1095051]How has Gruden produced? What track record speaks for him?



I'm not saying he should be fired - such would disturb team continuity (again). But he has nothing on his record which screams "keep him," either.[/QUOTE]


So again-... If all the rumors are true and he wanted Mcoy playing and we were 5-5 rite now? Than what? Not saying mccoy would have won, not even saying he wanted him playing. But if he did than there is a possibility the results are different. Gotta give him atleast the benefit of doubt.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

Tell that to the O-LINE


[quote=Hijinx;1094582]You are talking about 1 game. Lets take RG3's last 16 not counting the Jax game he get hurt 5 mins in. In 16 games 18 TDs, 15 INT, and 7 fumbles, [B]53 sacks taken. [/B] Twenty two turnovers just by himself in 16 games, thats elite. Now before you even start making excuses about the O-line and those sacks, a ton of them are on him. He holds the ball [B]WAY, WAY, WAY, [/B]too long, everyone says so. Now the O-line is leaky for sure, but it is no way, sooo much worse than every other O-line that he should be sacked this many times. [U] In fact this season RG3 has been sacked 13% of his pass attempts, Colt 10%, and Kirk only 3.8%. Last year RG3 sacked on 7.7% of attempts, Kirk 3.1. [/U]

You want to use the D as an excuse? Know who had the 9th most punts in 2013? Rocca. Know why so many? Because RG3 can not do crap on 3rd down, except get sacked. Want to know why he wasn't 1st in number of punts? Because RG3's 22 turnovers, but I guess that is on the D. Crappy Offensive play puts pressure on the D. Not the other way around.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #28302 , it is the coaching staff. Once he gets the right coaches who knows how to coach he will be great. Go check how well the Browns are doing with Kyle Shanahan, without a decent WR, and Hoyer as their QB.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #63840 wellll hes hurt as soon as he gets healthy, we will see this great elite QB. Ya but he is brittle a hell, he missed time in 2 out of 4 college seasons and 3 out of 3 NFL seasons. So keep hoping that he will ever last a whole season.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #34405: his teammates don't play hard enough. He tried to use that one yesterday when he threw his teammates under the bus. Best throw of the day, BTW.

Or you use RG3 excuse #19083 : "The Haters" whatever the Hell that is

At some point you have to stop making excuses and either produce or get lost.[/quote]

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Lotus;1095051]How has Gruden produced? What track record speaks for him?

I'm not saying he should be fired - such would disturb team continuity (again). But he has nothing on his record which screams "keep him," either.[/quote]

Since when does track record matter for this organization? Gibbs, Marty, and Shanny all had excellent track records, they are gone. Spurrier had a great track record in college and he's go too.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=irish;1095061]Since when does track record matter for this organization? Gibbs, Marty, and Shanny all had excellent track records, they are gone. Spurrier had a great track record in college and he's go too.[/QUOTE]


Shanny had a good track record about 20 years ago. He was given ample opportunity here.
Spurrier?!? You cannot be serious when you imply he was let go prematurely.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

Spurrier was an effing joke.
Snyder does not know how to find a good coach.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1095062]Shanny had a good track record about 20 years ago. He was given ample opportunity here.
Spurrier?!? You cannot be serious when you imply he was let go prematurely.[/quote]

People forget how in demand Spurrier was, several teams made a hard push for him.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1095062]Shanny had a good track record about 20 years ago. He was given ample opportunity here.
Spurrier?!? You cannot be serious when you imply he was let go prematurely.[/quote]

I understood the original post to say that since JG did not have a track record to point to why should he be given any benefit of the doubt. I pointed out that track records of success dont matter to the Skins when it comes to letting a coach go.

Spurrier was a joke but at the time he was the new hot-shot who DS wanted really bad. I think a big reason Marty was canned after 1 year was because Spurrier became available. IMO Marty had this organization about 1 or 2 years from being turned around and then he's gone for Spurrier and unfortunately the rest is history.

I think in 10 years Skins fans will look back and say the 2 biggest coaching mistakes were getting rid of Marty too soon and getting rid of Shanny too soon.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;1095069]People forget how in demand Spurrier was, several teams made a hard push for him.[/QUOTE]


Maybe, and you are correct I do not remember. However after about a 1/2 of a quarter of the run n gun the writing was on the wall and I dont remember anybody thinking we should keep him around.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1095073]Maybe, and you are correct I do not remember. However after about a 1/2 of a quarter of the run n gun the writing was on the wall and I dont remember anybody thinking we should keep him around.[/quote]

Baloney! His system looked great in preseason and after they won their first regular season game I remember the Skins announcers saying that now that we know Spurrier's system works in the regular season how will it work in the playoffs.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=irish;1095071]I understood the original post to say that since JG did not have a track record to point to why should he be given any benefit of the doubt. I pointed out that track records of success dont matter to the Skins when it comes to letting a coach go.



Spurrier was a joke but at the time he was the new hot-shot who DS wanted really bad. I think a big reason Marty was canned after 1 year was because Spurrier became available. IMO Marty had this organization about 1 or 2 years from being turned around and then he's gone for Spurrier and unfortunately the rest is history.



I think in 10 years Skins fans will look back and say the 2 biggest coaching mistakes were getting rid of Marty too soon and getting rid of Shanny too soon.[/QUOTE]


I agree with the premise, but Spurrier was such a joke when he got here that I dont believe we could have kept him. Nor do i believe anybody expected us to. He was clearly a college coach that couldnt bring his schtick to the NFL. I completely 1000 % agree about Marty and completely 1000% disagree about Shanny. He clearly was not making progress and it was time for him to go.