Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

If for some reason the Redskins were to trade RGIII, I would
Reach out to Chicago and ask for Kyle Long in return, Cutler is done there.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=mcludka;1097676]@AdamSchefter: There's a "real chance" Robert Griffin III will be Washington's starting QB before this season is over, per source.

m.twitter.com/AdamSchefter

I want him to succeed so that trade wasn't a huge waste. Gruden needs to show me something that he can tailor an offense to Griffins skills while developing his pocket skills
Gruden touted himself as a quarterback guy. I need to see it. Griffin has been terrible. Cousins has been banished. Now Colt is supposed to give me hope?
Snyder deserves some blame. But give him credit where its due: he has tried different ideas. Given his coaches anything they ask for. He does meddle. I dont know.... maybe fire everyone, gut the roster, and bring in a GM to call ALL the shots.
sorry. Ranting here..[/quote]

Good read and I agree.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1097698]I hate to say this, but Gruden's first year is reminding me a lot of McDaniels first year in Denver, when he went in and drove Cutler out of town and ended up making a mess. I know it is not the same exact situation, but I think they are somewhat similar.[/quote]

Yeah it appears we might be heading that way.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1097698]I hate to say this, but Gruden's first year is reminding me a lot of McDaniels first year in Denver, when he went in and drove Cutler out of town and ended up making a mess. I know it is not the same exact situation, but I think they are somewhat similar.[/quote]

You make a very good, if tragic, point.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1097698]I hate to say this, but Gruden's first year is reminding me a lot of McDaniels first year in Denver, when he went in and drove Cutler out of town and ended up making a mess. I know it is not the same exact situation, but I think they are somewhat similar.[/quote]

Very true. I think this speaks to the point that being a rookie HC can be extremely tough...I would say both are trying to impose change the wrong way. Everyone in a leadership role once they chose to take on that responsibilty wants to put there stamp on the position and create a vision. This isnt anything new. Probably hasnt gone about it the best way.

But the struggles and the frustration in implementing these changes speaks more to the disfunction of the franchise. Folks, we see it time and time again with Dan Snyder and his Lackies who run the team. They seem to make it impossible to get everyone on the same page and feel the need to do stupid shit like hire coaches and retain coaches even before the HC is chosen. Its a way to keep them in control, by keeping people in "their" corner.

This is what we call a flawed management model. Built on distrust and fear of not being able to control certain things and creates multiple voices...some which shouldnt be allowed to speak at all.

This is not a HC coach problem, Redskins have a flawed organization model.

The metaphor for this model would be an image of a large amount waste, within a oversized green metallic bin, ablaze, with black smoke rising

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1097698]I hate to say this, but Gruden's first year is reminding me a lot of McDaniels first year in Denver, when he went in and drove Cutler out of town and ended up making a mess. I know it is not the same exact situation, but I think they are somewhat similar.[/quote]

Cutler was already established. He was a lot more highly regarded ( at that time) around the NFL as a professional QB than RG3 is. McDaniels really didn't have a good enough reason to run off Cutler.

Right now, Gruden has legitimate reasons to move on. He's obviously no longer interested in developing a drama queen that's a project. He may have signed on for it, but things have obviously changed.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1097730]Cutler was already established. He was a lot more highly regarded ( at that time) around the NFL as a professional QB than RG3 is. McDaniels really didn't have a good enough reason to run off Cutler.

Right now, Gruden has legitimate reasons to move on. He's obviously no longer interested in developing a drama queen that's a project. He may have signed on for it, but things have obviously changed.[/quote]

My problem with Gruden is that it seems like he didn't even try or more like he didn't want to try to develop Griffin. I'm talking about the beginning of the year when we didn't have much drama going on and we didn't have the cloud of a losing season.

I do think that it is time for everyone to move on. But I see a lot of things in Gruden that concerns me moving forward with or without RG3.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1097728]The metaphor for this model would be an image of a large amount waste, within a oversized green metallic bin, ablaze, with black smoke rising[/quote]

[IMG]http://www.sundriesshack.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/I-See-What-You-Did-There-Fry1.jpg[/IMG]

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[img]http://tech.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/dumpster_fire.jpg[/img]

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1097697]I think this is a passive agressive remark in regards to how we feel Gruden can't be judged on his first year alone.[/quote]

I think it is just a stupid remark

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1097736]I think it is just a stupid remark[/quote]

I don't think that we can judge the stupidity of the remark until 8 years have passed.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1097730]Right now, Gruden has legitimate reasons to move on. He's obviously no longer interested in developing a drama queen that's a project. He may have signed on for it, but things have obviously changed.[/quote]

I couldn't care less if he were to leave. He could easily be replaced with someone who is a better HC. Dan Snyder would probably agree to a buyout of Gruden's contract in about one second.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1097731][B]My problem with Gruden is that it seems like he didn't even try or more like he didn't want to try to develop Griffin. [/B]I'm talking about the beginning of the year when we didn't have much drama going on and we didn't have the cloud of a losing season.

I do think that it is time for everyone to move on. But I see a lot of things in Gruden that concerns me moving forward with or without RG3.[/quote]

It seems like that from the outside. Gruden doesn't seem like a patient guy to me. But remember, he's been up close and around him since April or May? Plus he's looked at tape from last year. He probably realizes that Griffin has a real long way to go and may never develop. He's got to do this his way, not the way Snyder wants him to do it.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1097738]I couldn't care less if he were to leave. He could easily be replaced with someone who is a better HC. Dan Snyder would probably agree to a buyout of Gruden's contract in about one second.[/quote]

Not sure Snyder's going to eat 20 million. Right now, Gruden has all the power. Gruden needs to improve on some things, but I like that he's doing it his way and isn't backing down to Snyder. To me, that's a good thing.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[QUOTE=DYoungJelly;1097692]He also can't move in the pocket without taking his eyes off the receivers down field, or scramble left and throw, or accept blame with out throwing his team under the bus.



How easy is a guy that has all those limitations to defend?



Our defense looked great against the same type of qb with a better skill set in the 49ers game.



The measuring stick should be our defense. If we can defend it, it sucks. The Seattle game is a bit of an outlier but our d kept us in the game. If our olbs were strict on their responsibilities we would have been good that game.



Luck made the same defense in the very next week look like the worst in the league because he isn't a one trick pony who runs plays with a single read.



What about Griffin has given anybody the notion he can develop into a pocket passer?



The best running qb right now is Wilson and he has an awesome line. Seattle isn't even a top 10 offense. Does that means defenses have adjusted to the running qb? Idk. There is a strong argument though, that if Griffin matches Wilson's abilities we still aren't going to be as effective as an more traditional offense with a qb who can pick apart an offense.



The NFL has changed, it isn't 2012. A qb that can progress through reads and make changes preplay has a higher ceiling than one who doesnt.



On a tangent, Griffin doesn't have that intangible slickness to keep himself alive like Wilson.



I would love to be wrong on this.[/QUOTE]


You are not though. The NFL has changed since 2012. Kap and Wilson are also unable to do what they did than. Griff is soooooo far away from being able to adjust to the game.


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Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1097741]Not sure Snyder's going to eat 20 million. Right now, Gruden has all the power. Gruden needs to improve on some things, but I like that he's doing it his way and isn't backing down to Snyder. To me, that's a good thing.[/quote]

I thought you were suggesting that Gruden might want out at the end of this season. If Gruden were to want out, he wouldn't get anywhere near $20M.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Maybe we should trade Gruden to Tampa for 2 firsts and 2 seconds.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1097743]I thought you were suggesting that Gruden might want out at the end of this season. If Gruden were to want out, he wouldn't get anywhere near $20M.[/quote]

Gruden wouldn't quite after one season. Actually, I don't see Gruden quitting at all unless things got so bad that he felt the money wasn't worth it. And if it came to that, I'd shutter to think exactly how bad this franchise is, that you as a coach, would walk away from guaranteed millions because you realized it was a no-win situation.

Honestly, I think you have to look at it like this. Gruden has to evaluate his players, not just by their athletic abilities and their football smarts, but he's also has to evaluate them on their pride. These players should be so embarrassed, hurt, disgusted, and angry at how this season has gone, that they should play angry. I'm not saying they should cheap shot other players or play recklessly, but they should play angry. Everybody, even down to the punter, should look for someone to hit.

I saw how loose Indy was playing last week. They had a swagger. They antagonized the Redskins. They made fun of them. They bullied the 'skins. Regardless as to how the season has gone, this team should make it their mission that no matter what, they will be respected by the end of the day. And that starts with Gruden. If he can't get these guys to think that way, he either doesn't have what it takes, or he has the wrong guys.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;1097694]What?[/QUOTE]


If I may answer for Gary,
Gruden will feel my wrath. He will know when his day comes when he cant throw out of the backfield to Morris. Than the seventh sign is that Snyder knows he made a mistake asking for RG-3 to leave town! Please.
(Or something along those lines)


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The everything Gruden thread
 

News flash: Griff is on his way out of town because he CANNOT play the QB position as well as guys like Colt McCoy, especially to the tune of about 18 million dollars that he would be due in 2016. It is not because him and Gruden do not get along.


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Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[QUOTE=Lotus;1097737]I don't think that we can judge the stupidity of the remark until 8 years have passed.[/QUOTE]


LMAO


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Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=mcludka;1097679]I am all for that as long as the QB coach isn't named Zorn.[/quote]

Flacco really progressed with Zorn as a QB coach.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Since our team has been so good and winning consistently before Gruden arrived, clearly Gruden is the problem.
Snyder and the FO has done an exceptional job in getting us such incredible talent in the last 14-15 years Snyder has owned the team and they have never broken rules or been penalized. So it is not them. Consistently a playoff team during the 14 years.
Plus add the the fact the RGIII has never had a problem with other coaches in his 3 years in the NFL. There was a love affair with the last coaching staff. RGIII's play on the field that last two years has been incredible MVP like and he is an Iron Man when it comes to injuries. He is very humble and welcomes criticism, very evident in the post game press conference where he has never blamed his teammates. He works so hard that his footwork and technique is Hall of Fame level. Top notch!
So clearly Gruden who has been here 8 month (?) is the problem.........
Plus there are so many excellent coaches that are dieing to come work here. They'll just show up with a magic playbook, call the right plays and we will win again.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1097759]News flash: Griff is on his way out of town because he CANNOT play the QB position as well as guys like Colt McCoy, especially to the tune of about 18 million dollars that he would be due in 2016. It is not because him and Gruden do not get along.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

The thing I find telling about the RG3 saga is that nobody (player or coach) has come out and said either officially or as a leak that he can play and will be able to do it. I keep waiting for someone to say "dont worry he just needs some time to make it work" but I havent heard that from anyone in the organization.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

At what point will all you Gruden Boosters admit the obvious?

At what point will you be willing to agree that yes Gruden must go?

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Avinash_Tyagi;1097773]At what point will all you Gruden Boosters admit the obvious?

At what point will you be willing to agree that yes Gruden must go?[/quote]

Gruden is only part of the problem.

They need to clean house and get rid of these good ole boy network hires.

I would rather fire the Allen and give Gruden his shot.
He is a first year coach, he is going to have growing pains especially with this shit show of an organization.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Gruden must go? if that happens who is the next coach? who is the QB ? ..if they fire Gruden after 1 year I will become a cowboys fan..this talk in crazy.Why would you fire Gruden??..Here is the TRUTH..we DO NOT HAVE a real QB on the roster! McCoy is the best we have! RGIII IS A BUST ..believe it ! Injuries on the D has taken its toll..our secondary is not good..PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT COACH COULD POST A WINNING SEASON WITH THIS CURRENT ROSTER??..please tell me! Now if you said we need a real GM I would buy into that.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Honestly Trading the guy should be off the table if were going to keep him on the bench.

We're screwing ourselves you hurt his trade value by not playing him...well I wouldn't trade him for anymore than a 5th with what I've seen.

What exactly are we planning here??

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=rocnrik;1097777]Gruden must go? if that happens who is the next coach? who is the QB ? ..if they fire Gruden after 1 year I will become a cowboys fan..this talk in crazy.Why would you fire Gruden??..Here is the TRUTH..we DO NOT HAVE a real QB on the roster! McCoy is the best we have! RGIII IS A BUST ..believe it ! Injuries on the D has taken its toll..our secondary is not good..PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT COACH COULD POST A WINNING SEASON WITH THIS CURRENT ROSTER??..please tell me! Now if you said we need a real GM I would buy into that.[/quote]

If you'd run to the cowboys I feel sorry for ya...at least stay in the Area...(Ravens)

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

This is his first season. So he will have another season to prove himself. Just hope that Dan S knows what he is doing.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins;1097762]Since our team has been so good and winning consistently before Gruden arrived, clearly Gruden is the problem.

Snyder and the FO has done an exceptional job in getting us such incredible talent in the last 14-15 years Snyder has owned the team and they have never broken rules or been penalized. So it is not them. Consistently a playoff team during the 14 years.

Plus add the the fact the RGIII has never had a problem with other coaches in his 3 years in the NFL. There was a love affair with the last coaching staff. RGIII's play on the field that last two years has been incredible MVP like and he is an Iron Man when it comes to injuries. He is very humble and welcomes criticism, very evident in the post game press conference where he has never blamed his teammates. He works so hard that his footwork and technique is Hall of Fame level. Top notch!

So clearly Gruden who has been here 8 month (?) is the problem.........

Plus there are so many excellent coaches that are dieing to come work here. They'll just show up with a magic playbook, call the right plays and we will win again.[/QUOTE]


This. Turnover is the roadmap to success. This site should be called the warpath crazies!!


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The everything Gruden thread
 

[url]https://twitter.com/markbullocknfl/status/540983162076409856[/url]

Something for you Griffin lovers..

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Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Brody81;1097782][url]https://twitter.com/markbullocknfl/status/540983162076409856[/url]

Something for you Griffin lovers..

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk[/quote]

If you're looking for a Griffin lover, you're probably in the wrong town. That bandwagon cleared out faster than Bill Cosby's.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

This is laughable. And to make it worse, the redskins box office keeps calling me to upgrade to Premium seats. Blaaaaah!

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2014/12/05/ticket-prices-for-redskins-rams-game-plummet-to-as-low-as-3/]Ticket prices for Redskins-Rams game plummet to as low as $3 - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[QUOTE=Avinash_Tyagi;1097773]At what point will all you Gruden Boosters admit the obvious?



At what point will you be willing to agree that yes Gruden must go?[/QUOTE]


Get back to me in another 12 months....at the earliest.


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Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[QUOTE=Stacks42;1097785]This is laughable. And to make it worse, the redskins box office keeps calling me to upgrade to Premium seats. Blaaaaah!



[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2014/12/05/ticket-prices-for-redskins-rams-game-plummet-to-as-low-as-3/]Ticket prices for Redskins-Rams game plummet to as low as $3 - The Washington Post[/url][/QUOTE]


Me and my brother got season tickets in I think 2008? Had them for about three years. Since we live in NJ we could only make it down 2-3 times a year. The rest went on stub hub and it literally got to the point that we couldnt give them away.


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Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[QUOTE=CASKINS;1097779]If you'd run to the cowboys I feel sorry for ya...at least stay in the Area...(Ravens)[/QUOTE]


Eff all that talk. Those are two teams that should be way down the bottom of the list along with the Gints, Birds, and Seahawks. How about the Cardinals or Bengals or something?


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Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Avinash_Tyagi;1097773]At what point will all you Gruden Boosters admit the obvious?

At what point will you be willing to agree that yes Gruden must go?[/quote]

I've been told on this board, at least 8 years in. Anything before that is a rush to judgment.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Per cbssports.com, Fran Tarkenton on RGIII and Gruden's evaluation of RGIII:

"He came into the league with an arrogance," Tarkenton said. "He goes into Washington, which is the worst place for him to go. They have been so hungry for a quarterback and for winning. They worshipped him. Here's RG3; he's our savior, he's our guy. His father gets involved and is in the locker room -- I have never seen a father in a locker room on Sundays. The owner, Dan Snyder, adopts him and becomes his best friend. So RG3, at 21, 22, thought he was Jesus, right?"

"And he was making pontifical statements about how he approached the game. I was listening to him the offseason after his rookie year, which was not a bad year, and I'm saying, 'Holy s---, this guy is out of control with his ego.' That was the first sign you saw that he lacked leadership. He was so into himself," Tarkenton said. "You know a quarterback's job? Make his teammates better. It's not about you; it's about your teammates. You've got to make them better, and if you don't make them better, you have no chance. And he was all about RG3."

"I sympathize with Jay Gruden. Gruden came out and pointed out, which is right, that he has no mechanics. He is a terrible passer, has no accuracy, he doesn't understand the offense, he doesn't read defenses, and he has no discipline. When he is supposed to take a 3-yard drop, he takes a 1-yard drop; if he is supposed to take a 5-yard drop, it's a 3-yard drop. There's no discipline and understanding of the defense because he is a pontificator. He will never make it. He will be out of football. He will be in the same graveyard as JaMarcus Russell and Vince Young."

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Brody 81 posted the link to this a few posts ago. ^.


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