Re: Next years QB
 

Really not surprised. There were rumblings that a few of the coaches were not in Griffin's corner.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1111716]Looks like Haslett doesn't think much of Robert...lol


[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/redskinsblog/jim-haslett-answers-if-redskins-should-take-marcus-mariota?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo]Jim Haslett answers if Redskins should take Marcus Mariota | Comcast SportsNet Washington[/url][/quote]

Oh, let's take QB drafting advice from a defensive coach -- one that was so sucky that he has been fired (many times) and hasn't been sought after by anyone. Maybe we should solicit Cerrato's views while we're at it.

:doh:

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=calia;1111700]That's true in the sense that if we don't take Mariota (and today's news is likely to make folks think we will pass), teams that want him will want to trade with someone above 6 in order to get him, as the Jets seem likely to do grab him at 6. My point is that this move arguably makes the Redskins less of an attractive trading partner than teams picking above us if the objective is to land Mariota. Before this news, we were probably a very attractive trading partner at 5 because the Jets would likely snag him at 6. But now, someone else gets that privilege (although, I will allow, at greater cost to the team trading up, as the higher the pick, the more you have to give up for it).[/quote]

This thinking makes zero sense. Is it possible to make negative sense?

The whole reason to trade to five is because you don't think Mariota will make it past 6. And nobody will trade up to 5 unless the player they want is there when we are on the clock.

So this changes exactly nothing. Sometimes it's no more complicated than:

Jets might take Mariota at 6
We have 5
Mariota is available at 5 when we are on clock

Ergo big market for our pick.

Derp

Re: Next years QB
 

I'm going to put this here as a reminder of what RG3 can be. I'm sure we all remember this play. Late in the season against the Giants down at the goalline with the half about to run out, and Gruden elects to go for the TD because why the hell not at that point.

RG3 drops back, finds everyone covered, and rolls out the back to escape the rush. He eyes the corner pylon and absolutely turns on the jets. I didn't think he was going to get there but he does, and in typical Redskins fashion fumbles it just before crossing the plane. But he beat his man to the spot, amazingly. And it wasn't just some dipshit DE, it was JPP. Of course while the play shows he still has the burst, it also shows every reason why he shouldn't use it too much. He dives head first for the goal, covering probably 7 yards in the air. Injury waiting to happen.

At this point in the season it's perfectly reasonable to think the burst was returning because he was finally fully healed from the ACL and ankle problems. It makes you think of what could be coming in a contract year.

Of course, if he and Gruden start going back to the athleticism, you only increase the chances of injury. He's got to make strides as a passer for me to commit long term.

Still, here is a glimpse of that burst we've been missing:

[url=http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/12/14/robert-griffin-iii-run-overturned-replay-washington-redskins]Robert Griffin III touchdown run overturned after replay in Redskins-Giants game - NFL - SI.com[/url]

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=Schneed10;1111781]I'm going to put this here as a reminder of what RG3 can be. I'm sure we all remember this play. Late in the season against the Giants down at the goalline with the half about to run out, and Gruden elects to go for the TD because why the hell not at that point.

RG3 drops back, finds everyone covered, and rolls out the back to escape the rush. He eyes the corner pylon and absolutely turns on the jets. I didn't think he was going to get there but he does, and in typical Redskins fashion fumbles it just before crossing the plane. But he beat his man to the spot, amazingly. And it wasn't just some dipshit DE, it was JPP. Of course while the play shows he still has the burst, it also shows every reason why he shouldn't use it too much. He dives head first for the goal, covering probably 7 yards in the air. Injury waiting to happen.

At this point in the season it's perfectly reasonable to think the burst was returning because he was finally fully healed from the ACL and ankle problems. It makes you think of what could be coming in a contract year.

Of course, if he and Gruden start going back to the athleticism, you only increase the chances of injury. He's got to make strides as a passer for me to commit long term.

Still, here is a glimpse of that burst we've been missing:

[url=http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/12/14/robert-griffin-iii-run-overturned-replay-washington-redskins]Robert Griffin III touchdown run overturned after replay in Redskins-Giants game - NFL - SI.com[/url][/quote]

i gotta debbie downer on this and i apologize.

yes it shows his elite athleticism.

it also shows him missing an open Jordan Reed in the seam waving his hands in the air. it also shows he doesnt know down, distance and clock. in no way was he supposed to try to run it in, in that situation. im sure he was told to kill the ball if his 1st quick read wasnt open so we could go for a FG.

theres a very good chance the play was designed to go to Reed quick for a TD or throw it in stands. if i was a coach, id be pissed. intentional petulance.

but who knows what RG3's pre-read was, who knows who his first look was supposed to be .... what i do know is that he was not supposed to run it and suck up all the regulation time on a make or break QB audible.

but yes, we have a very fragile but athletic QB.

sorry schneed ... i feel bad.

Re: Next years QB
 

Hard to dispute this, but boy did the right side of the line collapse in a hurry.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=over the mountain;1111784]i gotta debbie downer on this and i apologize.

yes it shows his elite athleticism.

it also shows him missing an open Jordan Reed in the seam waving his hands in the air. it also shows he doesnt know down, distance and clock. in no way was he supposed to try to run it in, in that situation. im sure he was told to kill the ball if his 1st quick read wasnt open so we could go for a FG.

theres a very good chance the play was designed to go to Reed quick for a TD or throw it in stands. if i was a coach, id be pissed. intentional petulance.

but who knows what RG3's pre-read was, who knows who his first look was supposed to be .... what i do know is that he was not supposed to run it and suck up all the regulation time on a make or break QB audible.

but yes, we have a very fragile but athletic QB.

sorry schneed ... i feel bad.[/quote]

I would agree here. There was no need for Griffin to run in the first place. If he had any anticipation then it would have been an easy TD for Reed. He just needed to lead him towards the back of the end zone.

This was the same thing that happened on the play he hurt his ankle on. Had he just thrown the ball when he was suppose to (to Jackson) then there was no need to run and he would not have gotten hurt.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=over the mountain;1111784]i gotta debbie downer on this and i apologize.

yes it shows his elite athleticism.

it also shows him missing an open Jordan Reed in the seam waving his hands in the air. it also shows he doesnt know down, distance and clock. in no way was he supposed to try to run it in, in that situation. im sure he was told to kill the ball if his 1st quick read wasnt open so we could go for a FG.

theres a very good chance the play was designed to go to Reed quick for a TD or throw it in stands. if i was a coach, id be pissed. intentional petulance.

but who knows what RG3's pre-read was, who knows who his first look was supposed to be .... what i do know is that he was not supposed to run it and suck up all the regulation time on a make or break QB audible.

but yes, we have a very fragile but athletic QB.

sorry schneed ... i feel bad.[/quote]

Don't feel bad it's a great take and one I totally agree with. I still take a positive from the play in that it looked like finally he had that 3rd gear back for the first time since his knee injury.

But yeah, he can be as athletic as all get out, but ultimately he needs to distribute the ball on time or his athleticism will only take him so far.

I am hopeful there is enough athleticism coming this year to cover for whatever decision making deficiencies still remain. If he flashes enough then we'll have our patience tanks filled up a bit. If he doesn't, then the judgment of his decision making will be rightfully harsh.

Re: Next years QB
 

Surprised we didn't draft a developmental QB somewheres.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=30gut;1112939]Surprised we didn't draft a developmental QB somewheres.[/quote]

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/04/washington-takes-a-flier-on-connor-halliday/]Washington takes a flier on Connor Halliday | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Next years QB
 

Also QB Chris Bonner from CSU Pueblo:

[YT]dBOoiDFOBtE[/YT]

Re: Next years QB
 

Halliday's the one that has a real chance. McLoughan looked hard at him. He probably would have been a 6th or 7th rounder were it not for the broken leg.

Played in the Mike Leach spread but made a ton of play calls from the line of scrimmage so there's an analytical brain in that helmet.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=Schneed10;1112945]Also QB Chris Bonner from CSU Pueblo:

[YT]dBOoiDFOBtE[/YT][/quote]

Bonner's going to Carolina for a camp tryout. Not coming here, not yet at least

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=Schneed10;1112946][B]Halliday's the one that has a real chance[/B]. McLoughan looked hard at him. He probably would have been a 6th or 7th rounder were it not for the broken leg.

Played in the Mike Leach spread but made a ton of play calls from the line of scrimmage so there's an analytical brain in that helmet.[/quote]
One of the many things I love about having a....real GM at the helm. I always thought we should be scrutinizing and taking a later round QB on the chance of finding the diamond in the rough. That and the serious possibility that the future SB QB of the B&G may not be on the payroll. At the worst it costs you a later round pick and you probably get a decent backup for your trouble.
Oh well, we could always throw a few 1st's.....maybe a second to get a lock on a QB Superstar....
PLEASE ROBERT!!!

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1112941][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/04/washington-takes-a-flier-on-connor-halliday/]Washington takes a flier on Connor Halliday | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]Still surprised we didn't [I][B][U]draft[/U][/B][/I] a developmental QB somewhere.

I specifically used the word draft because I'm sure as we're all aware there a different levels of expectation not only based on what round a QB is drafted much more between an underrated vs UDFA QB.

Which is not to say that an UDFA can't make it in the league; there are exceptions like Romo and Warner that proves the rule.

With all the rhetoric about the QB situation on this team I thought it made sense to draft a developmental QB in the middle rounds (with starter upside) for Jay to groom in his system.

With that being said I like Halliday, but until he proves he's something more right know he's like every other UDFA QB....a camp arm fighting for the practice squad.

Re: Next years QB
 

[YT]watch?v=9yhFSt-xw4E[/YT]

Re: Next years QB
 

Glad to see they got a rookie in the pipeline. Just not sure he's got a shot to make the team.

Re: Next years QB
 

Hmmm...that video shows a dang nice touch on the ball.

Re: Next years QB
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/05/08/desean-jackson-predicts-redskins-will-be-the-team-to-beat-in-the-nfc-east/?tid=pm_sports_pop_b]DeSean Jackson predicts Redskins will be ‘the team to beat’ in the NFC East - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Next years QB
 

I think most of the league has a great deal of respect and admiration for DeSean's insight, wisdom and accuracy in such matters......

Re: Next years QB
 

Point taken Hog1. But if I was a receiver, I think I'd push for the QB that could get me the most receptions. Just saying...

Re: Next years QB
 

Ugh....look at the first play of this video, the running back is wide open.
Griffin has more than enough time but he just eats the sack.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014090703/2014/REG1/redskins@texans#menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000390995&tab=recap]Watch Washington Redskins vs. Houston Texans [09/07/2014] - NFL.com[/url]

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=53Fan;1113134]Point taken Hog1. But if I was a receiver, I think I'd push for the QB that could get me the most receptions. Just saying...[/quote]

Why would DeSean do this? He's been a model citizen after his reputation was tarnished by Chip Kelly.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1113420]Ugh....look at the first play of this video, the running back is wide open.
Griffin has more than enough time but he just eats the sack.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014090703/2014/REG1/redskins@texans#menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000390995&tab=recap]Watch Washington Redskins vs. Houston Texans [09/07/2014] - NFL.com[/url][/quote]You have an interesting take on that first play.

Its a play-action movement pass to the left; typically these plays are half-field reads...meaning Griffin is reading the left side of the field iirc Garcon running a deep comeback and DeSean running a crossing route/post from right to left.

The "wide open" RB is on the right side of field so is either last in the progression or not in the progression at all. Being that the RB is Alfred who is rarely targeted as a receiver in this offense is it really surprising that he may not be in the progression? If Morris is in the progression then Griffin is going to have to reset and throw across the field to get him the ball.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=53Fan;1113134]Point taken Hog1. But if I was a receiver, I think I'd push for the QB that could get me the most receptions. Just saying...[/quote]
Sorry man...I was spoofin' DJax for being a B&G homer

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1112981]Glad to see they got a rookie in the pipeline. Just not sure he's got a shot to make the team.[/quote]

There's a fairly low bar set simply because the team won't be able to keep Griffin, Cousins, AND McCoy going forward in 2016.

If we keep Griffin then Cousins will want to move on. If nobody wants Cousins and we resign him for cheap, then McCoy will want to look for a #2 job where he'll have a chance at getting on the field.

If Halliday shows nothing this summer then he's gone no matter what. But if he flashes upside I can see them parting with McCoy in training camp.

Lot of permutations there of course. Have to just wait and see what August brings.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=30gut;1113427]You have an interesting take on that first play.

Its a play-action movement pass to the left; typically these plays are half-field reads...meaning Griffin is reading the left side of the field iirc Garcon running a deep comeback and DeSean running a crossing route/post from right to left.

The "wide open" RB is on the right side of field so is either last in the progression or not in the progression at all. Being that the RB is Alfred who is rarely targeted as a receiver in this offense is it really surprising that he may not be in the progression? If Morris is in the progression then Griffin is going to have to reset and throw across the field to get him the ball.[/quote]

That play looked to be set up quite nicely but yea, I hear what you are saying.
Griffin was supposed to be our superstar, he should have found Morris.
Instead he does a deer in the headlights....
bleh

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1113434]That play looked to be set up quite nicely but yea, I hear what you are saying.
Griffin was supposed to be our superstar, he should have found Morris.
Instead he does a deer in the headlights....
bleh[/quote]

Throw across the field to the RB after a play action? You show me one team that has that in their playbook.

Sometimes I don't understand what fans see and it baffles me.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1113434]That play looked to be set up quite nicely but yea, I hear what you are saying.
Griffin was supposed to be our superstar, he should have found Morris.
Instead he does a deer in the headlights....
bleh[/quote]I know a lot of people like to look at a negative play (which every QB has in every game) and make it out to be referendum on a given QB, especially Griffin.

But I believe there are correct ways to look at and assess a play or game-film and there are incorrect ways to look at an assess them.

Sure, Griffin "could" have found Alfred Morris. Heck, every QB "should" make every play there is to make on the field. It is possible to fault any QB on any given negative play and say they could/should have done X, Y or Z. (especially with all-22 which imo leads to dangerous conclusions in the hands of a novice or biased viewer). But just because something looks like it could/should happen doesn't means it makes football sense in the situation or at all.

On the particular play you are talking about I don't see a 'deer in headlights' at all. And to be clear there are times that Griffin did look lost in the sauce last year. But on half-field read bootleg pass that got blitzed on the play-side I'm not going to bang on the QB for not throwing back across his body to Alfred Morris who has to be one of the least targeted and least featured receiving options on the team.

There are a bunch of plays from that game that you can much more legitimately knock Griffin for his mistakes.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Btw- I'm curious what made you decide to post this random play/random thought?

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=Bucket;1113437]Throw across the field to the RB after a play action? You show me one team that has that in their playbook.

Sometimes I don't understand what fans see and it baffles me.[/quote]I know right? What's even more surprising is the thought that this is an obvious throw that Griffin 'should' make.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=Bucket;1113437]Throw across the field to the RB after a play action? You show me one team that has that in their playbook.

Sometimes I don't understand what fans see and it baffles me.[/quote]

This and then some. He's rolling to his left, clearly a half field read on the play. He wouldn't come back to the other side unless the play breaks down and he has more time.

Re: Next years QB
 

The play did break down and he did have time.
Freeze the video at 10 secs.
Look how much space he has to work with.
Steve DeBerg could have found a receiver on that play.....

Re: Next years QB
 

Same play.
Different QB.

[YT][ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sk-eQBMFOs[/ame][/YT]

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1113449]Same play.
Different QB.

[YT][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sk-eQBMFOs[/url][/YT][/quote]

Then there's that.

Re: Next years QB
 

^^ It's a total off schedule play by Rodgers, one of the best in the biz.

Nothing routine about it.

Re: Next years QB
 

Rogers coming here?
Excellent!!

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=Bucket;1113437]Throw across the field to the RB after a play action? You show me one team that has that in their playbook.

Sometimes I don't understand what fans see and it baffles me.[/quote]

the first play was either:

1. screen right to RB that RG3 just went left/looked left for some reason; or
2. a decoy to have the defenders thinking screen/dump off and hope the safeties get caught staring into the backfield so RG3 can role opposite and hit D Jax long or garcon across the middle?

sadly, you cannot dismiss option 1. RG3 could have very well been confused. called the right play in the huddle but he ran the wrong play and everyone else ran the right play (called play assignment). .. or gruden got a little cute with a deceptive play.

---------------------------

what is totally sad is the sack at the 30 second mark.

how could RG3 even go into the film room afterwards and have to face/explain that to his coaches and teammates. that play is mind boggling. inept on so many levels.

i would have quit football vs facing that embarrassment.

but i still believe that if RG3 can just get his head right, he could be great.

if i see RG3 back peddle when there is no pressure next year, i will kill my tv. i want a new one anyway, maybe i could be like those rednecks and shoot it up?

---------------------------

the Rodgers play is diff bc:

1. protection wise, Rodgers roles to the side his coverage rolls to. RG3 did like a naked bootleg with no apparent receiver option
2. im guessing the guy leaked back to the opposite corner of the endzone was Rodgers 2nd or 3rd option. no way that guy was primary imo.
3. its effing Rodgers vs RG3.

Re: Next years QB
 

Okay.. Since this is becoming an issue and I have no fcking clue why I have to explain this.

1. The Rogers play wasn't even remotely the same type of play.
2. This should be one, but I'll have to be clear....... The objective of play action is to obtain a FLOW from the Linebackers in one direction to open up space on the other side of the field.

So after explaining that... WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU THROW IN THE DIRECTION YOU ARE TRYING TO SHIFT THE DEFENSE!??!?!

It's like I'm not even on the same planet right now and we watch two different games.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=Bucket;1113456]Okay.. Since this is becoming an issue and I have no fcking clue why I have to explain this.

1. The Rogers play wasn't even remotely the same type of play.
2. This should be one, but I'll have to be clear....... The objective of play action is to obtain a FLOW from the Linebackers in one direction to open up space on the other side of the field.

So after explaining that...[B] WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU THROW IN THE DIRECTION YOU ARE TRYING TO SHIFT THE DEFENSE!??![/B]?!

It's like I'm not even on the same planet right now and we watch two different games.[/quote]
Indeed......
You watch Bill B will be doing it this season......

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1113448]The play did break down and he did have time.
Freeze the video at 10 secs.
Look how much space he has to work with.
[/quote]I can't tell if you are doing some sort of comedy/troll routine.

In the off chance you are trying to have a real dialogue.....

You shouldn't watch use 'freeze the video at' to explain how much space a player has to work with because I'm sure you realize football doesn't happen in stop motion.

The play in question is a play-action bootleg pass.

And bootlegs ypically aren't designed for the QB to throw the ball to a RB. Heck usually on a bootleg the RB isn't even in the progression. But to your point the back does get open on this play BUT the ONLY way Griffin gets to that read (3rd/4th) read is if Swearinger doesn't get a free run...meaning someone blocks or at least chips Swearinger which didn't happen; Swearinger got a free run and blew up the play.

What you should be upset about is Griffin stays with Garcon on his comeback route way too long and Garcon never gets open, never gain separation. DeSean does get open on the crossing route moving right to left and that is where Griffin should have thrown the ball. I would be 100% in agreement if you were complaining that Griffin should moved on from Garcon (his first read) because Garcon didn't 'win' and should get to DeSean who's open.

But banging on about not throwing to the RB on the backside wheel route off bootleg play-action is stretch at best. And you ALWAYS consider the personnel when discussing plays and Alfred (I love the dude, I do) isn't in anyway shape or form the type of RB that you throw that type of pass to.