Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

If I'm Cleveland and we want Cousins and Skins FT again, I sit on about 30 million of that cap space, draft Saquon Barkley, and wait till next year to go after Kirk. Why give up a top 5 pick? Cleveland isn't winning SB next year with or without Kirk. Plus if they have another bad year they'd be in great position to land some more studs in 2019 for Kirk to play with.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1186623]Dalton and Cousins have both been very good with Jay, I agree I'm not too concerned but that doesn't mean you just let KC walk away and start Colt.[/QUOTE]


The only way I’d be ok with Colt starting week one is if we have a rookie waiting in the wings ready to take over at some point during the season.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1186625]If I'm Cleveland and we want Cousins and Skins FT again, I sit on about 30 million of that cap space, draft Saquon Barkley, and wait till next year to go after Kirk. Why give up a top 5 pick? Cleveland isn't winning SB next year with or without Kirk. Plus if they have another bad year they'd be in great position to land some more studs in 2019 for Kirk to play with.[/quote]

Because Kirk could go elsewhere and you don't wanna lose out on that, plus its a WIN NOW league

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

The only way we don't draft a QB is if Kirk is signed long term. Even if FT again, we'd at least need a mid round QB like Mike White.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1186626]The only way I’d be ok with Colt starting week one is if we have a rookie waiting in the wings ready to take over at some point during the season.[/quote]

I'd rather just start the rookie at that point, Colt is what he is, unless they truly believe he can win games with the cast around him.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1186564]When was the last time a sign and trade even went down in the NFL?[/quote]

When was the last time you heard of a QB getting franchise tagged three years in a row?

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1186627]Because Kirk could go elsewhere and you don't wanna lose out on that, plus its a WIN NOW league[/quote]

They could position themselves with the most cap space and a generational RB. I'd take my chances. They could even add a another offensive weapon or OL at # 4. They could be in great place to add Cousins.

I just don't think Kirk is worth somewhere around 30 million AND a top 5 pick.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=metalskins;1186631]When was the last time you heard of a QB getting franchise tagged three years in a row?[/QUOTE]


Apples and oranges

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1186632]They could position themselves with the most cap space and a generational RB. I'd take my chances. They could even add a another offensive weapon or OL at # 4. They could be in great place to add Cousins.

[B]I just don't think Kirk is worth somewhere around 30 million AND a top 5 pick.[/B][/quote]


No he isn't but if I told you I'd give you $20 for a $5 bill you would take it lol

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1186633]Apples and oranges[/quote]

My favorite fruit is good cantaloupe. I'm gonna find a saying to plug that into.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1186634]No he isn't but if I told you I'd give you $20 for a $5 bill you would take it lol[/quote]

You the Riddler from Batman now? Lol.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

I think the tag and trade is highly likely.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1186637]You the Riddler from Batman now? Lol.[/quote]

hahaha

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1186633]Apples and oranges[/quote]

Not really. Point is, it's possible, and I think it's highly likely to happen or at least seriously explored. Now, whether it actually [I]does[/I] happen or not is a different story, but I don't know why anybody would dismiss the idea? It would be a good move for Washington if they feel there's no way the 'skins will be offering him the LTD he wants.

The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Guess I’ll ask again, when was the last sign and trade in the NFL let alone a tag and trade? We’re talking about uncharted waters and people are saying it’s highly likely?? Based on what?

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1186641]Guess I’ll ask again, when was the last sign and trade in the NFL let alone a tag and trade? We’re talking about uncharted waters and people are saying it’s highly likely?? Based on what?[/quote]

Why does it have to be based on any historical evidence? Facing the concept of tagging a player three times in a row is uncharted waters in itself, yet, do you doubt that will happen? I don't doubt it at all. I think it is very much on the table - but with caveats, obviously. I seriously doubt Kirk Cousins is straight up tagged with no plans for any negotiations with other teams. Tagging him with the transition tag gives him less money and no compensation for the 'skins if they choose not to match any deal. Tagging him the exclusive, but then granting him the opportunity to negotiate with other teams gives the 'skins an opportunity to get something from the deal if Cousins finds a team and a offer he likes and the 'skins aren't willing to match. And at the very least/most, Cousins has security, because either way, he knows he's getting PAID in 2018. The 'skins would love to get some high round picks for losing Cousins. Picks in which they could use to move up and grab one of the high round QB draftees, and still have money to sign a free agent QB with playoff experience. This all ONLY works if the Redskins already have a trade partner, or two (Denver or NY Jets) agreeing to dance. And if nobody bites and the offer is accepted, well, then the 'skins can use that to say that nobody was interested in signing Kirk Cousins, so here's the deal. If Cousins refuses the deal, then he plays at $34M.

All of this goes away if and when the Redskins offer Kirk Cousins a LTD after the Super Bowl. But what historical evidence do you have that would make us believe Cousins accepts that deal?

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1186619]2012 Bro... But I hear ya man it sucks to be us right now.

[url=http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35446/can-the-redskins-sign-kirk-cousins-and-still-build-around-him]Can Washington Redskins sign Kirk Cousins and still build around him? - Washington Redskins Blog- ESPN[/url]


“It’s unique this year,” Banner said. “There are a couple of veteran quarterbacks out there other than [Cousins] who could be available, so there’s a possibility for other options that might be more affordable and present an opportunity to build around them at a more affordable price. That’s why this [situation] is more challenging.”


Which hurts Kirk iMO and helps us[/quote]

I figured someone would bring up 2012 but they even figured out a way to screw that up.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=metalskins;1186642]Why does it have to be based on any historical evidence? Facing the concept of tagging a player three times in a row is uncharted waters in itself, yet, do you doubt that will happen? I don't doubt it at all. I think it is very much on the table - but with caveats, obviously. I seriously doubt Kirk Cousins is straight up tagged with no plans for any negotiations with other teams. Tagging him with the transition tag gives him less money and no compensation for the 'skins if they choose not to match any deal. Tagging him the exclusive, but then granting him the opportunity to negotiate with other teams gives the 'skins an opportunity to get something from the deal if Cousins finds a team and a offer he likes and the 'skins aren't willing to match. And at the very least/most, Cousins has security, because either way, he knows he's getting PAID in 2018. The 'skins would love to get some high round picks for losing Cousins. Picks in which they could use to move up and grab one of the high round QB draftees, and still have money to sign a free agent QB with playoff experience. This all ONLY works if the Redskins already have a trade partner, or two (Denver or NY Jets) agreeing to dance. And if nobody bites and the offer is accepted, well, then the 'skins can use that to say that nobody was interested in signing Kirk Cousins, so here's the deal. If Cousins refuses the deal, then he plays at $34M.



All of this goes away if and when the Redskins offer Kirk Cousins a LTD after the Super Bowl. But what historical evidence do you have that would make us believe Cousins accepts that deal?[/QUOTE]



You lost me on your first sentence.

You’re saying something is highly likely to happen when there’s no history of it occurring.

What am I missing here.

Could it happen? Sure I guess. Highly likely though? Doubt it.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1186645]You lost me on your first sentence.

You’re saying something is highly likely to happen when there’s no history of it occurring.

What am I missing here.

Could it happen? Sure I guess. Highly likely though? Doubt it.[/quote]

Yes, because the Redskins aren't walking away from this without something in return. They either want to keep Kirk Cousins, or they want something in return to look as if everybody gets something from the deal. To simply let Cousins walk if he balks at a LTD would admit defeat and failure, and that isn't something Daniel Snyder likes to do. So, unless you hear about a LTD being struck with Cousins soon after the Super Bowl is over, you're going to start seeing the likelihood of some sort of trade with another team, and the 'skins can't do that unless they already have Cousins locked up and off the market. The 'skins can't make such a deal on a transition tag, and I don't believe they get anything of value with a non-exclusive tag this year (I could be wrong). So that's why I say it's highly likely. I'm not saying that is 100% going to happen, but it's highly likely if you don't see a LTD struck quickly.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=metalskins;1186652]Yes, because the Redskins aren't walking away from this without something in return. They either want to keep Kirk Cousins, or they want something in return to look as if everybody gets something from the deal. To simply let Cousins walk if he balks at a LTD would admit defeat and failure, and that isn't something Daniel Snyder likes to do. So, unless you hear about a LTD being struck with Cousins soon after the Super Bowl is over, you're going to start seeing the likelihood of some sort of trade with another team, and the 'skins can't do that unless they already have Cousins locked up and off the market. The 'skins can't make such a deal on a transition tag, and I don't believe they get anything of value with a non-exclusive tag this year (I could be wrong). So that's why I say it's highly likely. I'm not saying that is 100% going to happen, but it's highly likely if you don't see a LTD struck quickly.[/quote]

There is no doubt in my mind that Dan would pay KC 34M Next yr just so he isn't defeated by getting nothing for KC.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

I really want a HISHE episode of the KC contract negotiations when this is all done :)

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1186653]There is no doubt in my mind that Dan would pay KC 34M Next yr just so he isn't defeated by getting nothing for KC.[/quote]

Yeah, that will show Kirk and everyone else!!! 78 million guaranteed over 3 years.

This franchise is a trainwreck.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1186660]Yeah, that will show Kirk and everyone else!!! 78 million guaranteed over 3 years.

This franchise is a trainwreck.[/quote]

And then he gets the big money deal with another 80 mil guaranteed from another franchise lol.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[url]https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2018/1/24/16929264/adam-schefter-jacksonville-jaguars-sign-kirk-cousins-alex-smith-move-on-from-blake-bortles[/url]


As I thought all along. If Jacksonville can sign Kirk, Bortles is good as gone. I'd rather have Cousins than Smith any day of the week.



Also, I agree with Matty on this. Ain't no sign and trade happening. NOBODY is going to sign Kirk for tons of money and give up high picks. San Fran didn't do it and they had the cap space and NO QB. Browns aren't going to do it. NOBODY is going to do it.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1186670][url]https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2018/1/24/16929264/adam-schefter-jacksonville-jaguars-sign-kirk-cousins-alex-smith-move-on-from-blake-bortles[/url]


As I thought all along. If Jacksonville can sign Kirk, Bortles is good as gone. I'd rather have Cousins than Smith any day of the week.



Also, I agree with Matty on this. Ain't no sign and trade happening. NOBODY is going to sign Kirk for tons of money and give up high picks. San Fran didn't do it and they had the cap space and NO QB. Browns aren't going to do it. NOBODY is going to do it.[/quote]



Jags would be fools to keep Bortles at 19M. I'm sure he would go down to 12 if they asked

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=MTK;1186645]You lost me on your first sentence.

You’re saying something is highly likely to happen when there’s no history of it occurring.

What am I missing here.

Could it happen? Sure I guess. Highly likely though? Doubt it.[/quote]

But we could franchise him and let him negotiate a deal with another team to receive compensation.

I don't think this is out of the question, there are other teams who would gladly guarantee 75-90 million for Cousins.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Chico23231;1186672]But we could franchise him and let him negotiate a deal with another team to receive compensation.

I [B]don't think this is out of the question, there are other teams who would gladly guarantee 75-90 million for Cousins.[/quote][/B]

see I don't really know how many though, I mean Jets and who else? Denver doesn't have that kind of money, Bills? Nah. Browns? Maybe but that is about it.

Kirk may leave for a lesser deal than expected

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1186674][/B]

see I don't really know how many though, I mean Jets and who else? Denver doesn't have that kind of money, Bills? Nah. Browns? Maybe but that is about it.

Kirk may leave for a lesser deal than expected[/quote]

Take into consideration the other qb's that may be on the market, and a decent draft class, and it would seem like KC doesn't have as much leverage as he did last year.

In the Draft, Cleveland has 2 top 4 picks. NYG and Colts will either sell their pick or not likely take a qb at 2 and 3, so top qbs are likely to drop to Denver and NYJ at 5 and 6, who would have to be considered the top bidders for Kirk.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1186674][/B]

see I don't really know how many though, I mean Jets and who else? Denver doesn't have that kind of money, Bills? Nah. Browns? Maybe but that is about it.

Kirk may leave for a lesser deal than expected[/quote]

It only takes 1.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1186674][/B]

see I don't really know how many though, I mean Jets and who else? Denver doesn't have that kind of money, Bills? Nah. Browns? Maybe but that is about it.

Kirk may leave for a lesser deal than expected[/quote]

Jags Arizona Denver would be where I would start.

Jets, Bills, Browns are second tier...but all would be interested.

It wouldn’t be hard to clear cap space in Denver and elway is willing to do it.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

I have been in favor of transition tag, but now I'm thinking Franchising may actually be a no brainer.

Here's the thing. There's already been a lot of interest in Kirk connected to other teams, especially Denver and Cleveland, so you knows there are places that will pay him.

If they go into a tag and trade situation willing to take less than they hope to if it comes down to it, than I think the risk of another year on the tag is very small.

Someone will at least give up their 3rd or even their 4th for Cousins, right? So why let him walk when the absolute best you can get is a next year's third?

If you Franchise him, even if you could get absolutely nothing but a ham sandwich, if you think it's right for the team, you could always let him go to any team that wants him at that point, or maybe he'd see the lack of interest and finally sign long term.

The potential for teams to have to out bid each other is too great not try isn't it?

Essentially, they'd be betting a third rounder next year for a potential for a first this year.

For this not to work out there's only a few possibilities:

1. No one really wants Cousins.

2. Cousins refuses to consider offers from other teams so that he can play on the tag again.

3. Cousins doesn't like the options he has and decides to play on the Tag and see what his options are next year.

4. The skins somehow piss everyone off in a creative way that the make the other teams decide that the best revenge is to refuse to take Cousins out of spite.

I wouldn't put #4 past them, but really how likely do you think any of the scenarios are? Or am I not considering some other factor?

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1186656]I really want a HISHE episode of the KC contract negotiations when this is all done :)[/quote]

HISHE would be awesome. Ever see bangcartoons on bangcartoonradiohour.com? They would be great, too.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=HailGreen28;1186696]HISHE would be awesome. Ever see bangcartoons on bangcartoonradiohour.com? They would be great, too.[/QUOTE]Yeah. They used to get posted on here and were great!

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=Chico23231;1186672]But we could franchise him and let him negotiate a deal with another team to receive compensation.

I don't think this is out of the question, there are other teams who would gladly guarantee 75-90 million for Cousins.[/quote]

Why would KC want his new team to give up valuable picks for him?
If KC is tagged, he will play out the year and become a true unrestricted FA next year which is what he wants.
I don’t necessarily think he wants to leave but he does want the most money he can get and being and UFA is the best way to go about that.
34M next season is not a deterrent.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=jamf;1186698]Why would KC want his new team to give up valuable picks for him?
If KC is tagged, he will play out the year and become a true unrestricted FA next year which is what he wants.
I don’t necessarily think he wants to leave but he does want the most money he can get and being and UFA is the best way to go about that.
34M next season is not a deterrent.[/QUOTE] Kirk has said for two years now that he's never gotten to pick his team in the NFL and that he would like to test the market. In the past couple of years, the skins tagged him exclusively and did not give him permission to seek offers from other teams.

In the tag and trade scenario, he'd be given that opportunity finally. Not entertaining offers would be in total contradiction to what he's been saying.

If Kirk did this he'd be a dick, how the hell would he spin this in popular opinion? Wouldn't other teams see this and think twice about signing him?

So he either finds the right team and we work out the best deal we can, he doesn't like the other options and decides to finally negotiate a long term, or be a dick and see how it plays out.

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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1186641]Guess I’ll ask again, when was the last sign and trade in the NFL let alone a tag and trade? We’re talking about uncharted waters and people are saying it’s highly likely?? Based on what?[/QUOTE]

Patriots franchised and traded Cassel in 09. It's not common, but not uncharted.

I can understand the doubt that the Skins could pull off something because the Patriots have, but nevertheless it has been done.

[url]=http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3942130][/url]



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Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=irish;1186613]You make it sound like there would only be one rebuilding season by letting KC go. This team has been rebuilding since Y2K but the past 2 season it seems like the end of the rebuild is finally in sight. [B]Letting KC go pushes the reset button on this team and God only knows how many years it takes to get back to where they are now.[/B][/quote]

Agreed. But still, anything but another tag season. That'd give him even more leverage and we'd be in the same situation next year, but having spent 34 M more for a player we're not sure will stay here...

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=jamf;1186698]Why would KC want his new team to give up valuable picks for him?
If KC is tagged, he will play out the year and become a true unrestricted FA next year which is what he wants.
I don’t necessarily think he wants to leave but he does want the most money he can get and being and UFA is the best way to go about that.
34M next season is not a deterrent.[/quote]

Compensation is out of his hands...he will not turn down free agency bc of it.

Like I said before, the Skins need to handle this the right way.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

[quote=jamf;1186698]Why would KC want his new team to give up valuable picks for him?
[B]If KC is tagged, he will play out the year and become a true unrestricted FA next year[/B] which is what he wants.
I don’t necessarily think he wants to leave but he does want the most money he can get and being and UFA is the best way to go about that.
34M next season is not a deterrent.[/quote]

This is perhaps the best argument against the Skins tagging him again. This year, I think the Skins would be well-served by either signing Kirk to a LTD or moving on from him.

Re: The FINAL Kirk Cousins Saga thread. 5.0
 

Another tag is just delaying the inevitable and it’s hard to imagine another team giving up picks in addition to signing him to a monster deal. It’s not like he’s Aaron Rodgers or something. Worst case he walks and we get a compensatory pick, we draft or trade for another QB. The world won’t end if he’s not our starter next season.