Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=mooby;1242562]I really hope so for Kyle Smith's sake. I'm just not impressed with Hurney at all as GM. I would really have to start questioning Riverboat Ron if he made a move like that.



On the flip side as much as I like Kyle Smith as a talent evaluator, I feel the opposite way about Doug Williams. What kind of football man doesn't take into account a player's strengths and compatibility with a scheme before giving him 84 million dollars? It boggles the mind.[/QUOTE]When did Doug give someone 84 million dollars?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1242568]When did Doug give someone 84 million dollars?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk[/quote]

I think he's referring to Landon Collins' contract but yeah I don't see how it's on Doug.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=FrenchSkin;1242570]I think he's referring to Landon Collins' contract but yeah I don't see how it's on Doug.[/QUOTE]Oh. Yeah, every free agent move was done by Bruce Allen, especially money aspects.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

I’ve gotten the sense that Rivera is not actually selecting people based on real talent and who’s best for the job. He’s simply hiring his friends and everyone from Carolina.

I don’t like this at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1242571]Oh. Yeah, every free agent move was done by Bruce Allen, especially money aspects.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk[/quote]

Doug

wow lol

As soon as I started typing this post, I googled Doug Williams so I could properly reference his title of senior VP of player personnel, and I could dig that quote up about how he didn't factor scheme into account when discussing how Landon Collins would fit here.

Which led me to this:

[url]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001095592/article/doug-williams-out-of-personnel-dept-in-redskins-reorg[/url]

Doug has been moved out of his former role into a new role as "Senior VP of player development" which reports directly to Riverboat Ron. Sounds like a mentor style job, whereas his former job involved directly scouting other pro players.

I'm a fan of this move.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=5superbowls3wins;1242572]I’ve gotten the sense that Rivera is not actually selecting people based on real talent and who’s best for the job. He’s simply hiring his friends and everyone from Carolina.

I don’t like this at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]Well Zampese wasn't from Carolina. Also, as far as I know, Carolina was a solid professional organization, so if we are transplanting a lot of the people here, we can hope to see a professional culture develop here.



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1242574]Well Zampese wasn't from Carolina. Also, as far as I know, Carolina was a solid professional organization, so if we are transplanting a lot of the people here, we can hope to see a professional culture develop here.



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

It's the flip side of "Dan is staying out of football decisions."

Dan gave Ron carte blanche to do what he wanted to turn this team around. We have to trust that Rivera's instincts are better than Dan's.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=mooby;1242573]Doug



wow lol



As soon as I started typing this post, I googled Doug Williams so I could properly reference his title of senior VP of player personnel, and I could dig that quote up about how he didn't factor scheme into account when discussing how Landon Collins would fit here.



Which led me to this:



[url]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001095592/article/doug-williams-out-of-personnel-dept-in-redskins-reorg[/url]



Doug has been moved out of his former role into a new role as "Senior VP of player development" which reports directly to Riverboat Ron. Sounds like a mentor style job, whereas his former job involved directly scouting other pro players.



I'm a fan of this move.[/QUOTE]So you really think a big free agent acquisition like Collins was all Doug and not Bruce Allen?

I feel Doug was more of a spokesman for Bruce. And I think the only player acquisition Doug had more involvement was AP.

But as you said, he seems to be moving out of personnel area, which I'm fine with as well.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=mooby;1242575]It's the flip side of "Dan is staying out of football decisions."



Dan gave Ron carte blanche to do what he wanted to turn this team around. We have to trust that Rivera's instincts are better than Dan's.[/QUOTE]Yeah, it is kinda crazy that everyone wanted football guys making the decisions and for there to be one direction in the organization. Then they get worried and discouraged when those decisions include people that the coach has a comfort level and common purpose that was shared over time.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

It is pretty hard to question an almost total reorganization, I mean almost nothing was working except for maybe the last couple drafts. It is obvious that Rivera has a vision, and Dan is letting him roll with it. I'm willing to wait & see what happens here, without getting all up in arms about someone bringing in people that he's very familiar with, and people he knows he can work with. No one should have been considered safe with the track record this team has had...

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1242570]I think he's referring to Landon Collins' contract but yeah I don't see how it's on Doug.[/quote]

Also, for the record I am fairly ecstatic about Doug Williams moving to a mentor-style role to help players develop, but I think this article will shed a lot of light on his former role (which I don't believe he was suited for).

[url]https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19623620/washington-redskins-promote-doug-williams-eric-schaffer[/url]

[quote=John Keim, ESPN]
They promoted several people in the organization, with the most prominent being Doug Williams to senior vice president of personnel. What they didn't do was name a general manager, instead changing titles for others to fill various roles.

[B]It left Williams as the third-highest ranking member of the organization[/B], behind owner Dan Snyder and president Bruce Allen. Eric Schaffer, who has been their chief negotiator the past 10 years, becomes senior vice president of football operations and general counsel. Kyle Smith, son of former NFL general manager A.J. Smith, replaced Scott Campbell as the director of college scouting, with the latter becoming a senior personnel executive.

......

The question that has long been asked involves who has the power. McCloughan was said to have control over the 53-man roster, but coach Jay Gruden had heavy input in that area as well.

"That'll be the same," Allen said. "It's going to be a Redskins decision. No different than how we did free agency, no different than how we did the draft. Coach Gruden has influence, [B]Doug will have influence[/B] and between them they ought to be able to work it out. And, yes, I will be involved."

.......

[B]Williams said he only will be in charge of providing talent[/B], and that it will be Gruden's decision from there.

"I'm not going to interfere with who needs to be playing," Williams said. "That's not my job. I'm not the GM, I'm not the president and I'm not the coach. I won't go to Jay and say, 'Why didn't so and so play?' I'm out of order."

Allen said he would be involved as well, much as he always has been since returning to the organization in 2009.

"Let's be real here," Williams said. "Dan Snyder controls everything. He entrusted Bruce to be the president, and Bruce makes a lot of decisions. He's the president, and he has the right to do whatever he wants, but he wanted to make sure [Gruden and I are] on the same page. If we're on the same page, I don't think he'll interfere.

"Everybody needs a referee. Talking to Bruce over the last day or so ... he wants to back away and [B]hope that Jay and [my] marriage is so strong that he doesn't have to do that[/B]."

Williams said it was his idea to have his new title -- and not become a general manager. He did not want to get involved, he said, in every detail of the organization. [B]He just wanted personnel[/B].
[/quote]

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

Im still giddy about Del Rio. He is a lousy HC, but an absolute top notch DC. Our future rides on Haskins shoulders really. Im counting on TE, oline, and secondary all to be addressed through free agency and the draft. If they hit on those three positions and Haskins is the real deal there is no reason we cannot make an immediate turn around.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=5superbowls3wins;1242572]I’ve gotten the sense that Rivera is not actually selecting people based on real talent and who’s best for the job. He’s simply hiring his friends and everyone from Carolina.

I don’t like this at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]


ditto for me

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=5superbowls3wins;1242572]I’ve gotten the sense that Rivera is not actually selecting people based on real talent and who’s best for the job. He’s simply hiring his friends and everyone from Carolina.

I don’t like this at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

From [URL="https://www.yahoo.com/sports/redskins-hire-former-panthers-exec-rogers-schaffer-leaves-215150393--nfl.html"]an Asssociated Press article[/URL]

Isn't this the definition of the FO working on the same page as the Coaching Staff
[quote]''Rob was a tremendous resource for me over the past nine seasons, and I'm excited for him to be an integral part of building something special here with the Redskins,'' Rivera said.[/quote]

Everyone that Rivera is bringing over gets that he's the one setting the vision. I can live with the high number of Carolina retreads, for setting the culture and tone with one voice. If it becomes necessary to replace someone in later years I would hope that the pool of players would be expanded. But this year especially, you want every single person in that building to be crystal clear on who is setting the goal and path for the organization.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

Changing the subject. Y’all HAVE to check out the twitter page Redskins Realm @SkinsRealm for a post 2 days ago. 6 second video showing a player giving Jay a purple nurple during practice and Jay swatting his hand away and rubbing his left chesticle.

Tells you everything we need to know about the direction we are heading. Weeding out the boys and bring in men who have been engrained in a culture of professionalism, hard work and respect led by a leader of men.

Check it out!

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=SkinzWin;1242590]Changing the subject. Y’all HAVE to check out the twitter page Redskins Realm @SkinsRealm for a post 2 days ago. 6 second video showing a player giving Jay a purple nurple during practice and Jay swatting his hand away and rubbing his left chesticle.

Tells you everything we need to know about the direction we are heading. Weeding out the boys and bring in men who have been engrained in a culture of professionalism, hard work and respect led by a leader of men.

Check it out![/quote]

I had seen that one. The player was DeSean Jackson and yeah, no one will be doing that with Rivera thank goodness.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

Doug Williams out of the personnel side of things:

[url]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001095592/article/doug-williams-out-of-personnel-dept-in-redskins-reorg[/url]

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

Interesting quote from Marty Hurney on Rob Rogers enhanced job description just last offseason
[url]https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/09/panthers-marty-hurney-football-analytics-department-david-tepper/[/url]

[QUOTE]“Rob will continue to handle player finance and contracts, and manage the salary cap, while overseeing a football analytics department that we are in the process of implementing. . .”[/QUOTE]

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=sdskinsfan2001;1242593]Doug Williams out of the personnel side of things:



[url]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001095592/article/doug-williams-out-of-personnel-dept-in-redskins-reorg[/url][/QUOTE]


Good move by Rivera



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1242625]Interesting quote from Marty Hurney on Rob Rogers enhanced job description just last offseason
[url]https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/09/panthers-marty-hurney-football-analytics-department-david-tepper/[/url]



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]Perhaps the analytics part is the reason why Riveria decided that Schaefer isn't good fit for his plans. Redskins didn't utilize analytics as a tool to help coaches before and it looks like Riveria want to use it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1242593]Doug Williams out of the personnel side of things:

[url]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001095592/article/doug-williams-out-of-personnel-dept-in-redskins-reorg[/url][/quote]

Thank goodness. He's completely unqualified for that job; however, it does seem like he has done a good job helping players with off-field personal issues, so this should be great for him. Solid move by Rivera. It also clearly seems to be leaving an opening for a new GM to be hired, whether external or through promoting Kyle.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=GridIron26;1242633]Perhaps the analytics part is the reason why Riveria decided that Schaefer isn't good fit for his plans. Redskins didn't utilize analytics as a tool to help coaches before and it looks like Riveria want to use it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk[/quote]

I would guess it had more to do with getting rid of one of Dan's cronies. Snyder no longer has any of his sycophants in the building he can use to influence football decisions. This isn't to say that Schaffer was not really good at his job, but reports were that last year, they were re-negotiating his contract and he wanted more money and more influence over personnel decisions. That is clearly not his forte, so its a good move to let him move on and bring in someone who will stay in their lane and do their job. It has also been insinuated a number of places that Shaffer was the source of a lot of the teams leaks.

I forget who it was, but I saw someone on twitter post that its a sign of a good house-cleaning when competent people lose their jobs. Rivera is bringing in people who HE hired, who are beholden to him, and who share his vision. There will be no power-plays or mutinies by any of the old hold-overs. The team will either succeed or fail based solely on the job Rivera does, and he's not going to be undermined by any of the old guard.

The skins have needed to clean house for a LONG time, and I'm glad to see the it finally playing out. I continue to be supremely impressed with everything Rivera is doing. This is the first time since Dan hired Vinny that we have legitimate reasons for complete optimism for this franchise. True football people are in charge of making the football decisions.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

"Coach Centric"

"Coach centric" is a cool new word I have learned over the past couple weeks. Everything is going to revolve around the Coach vs the traditional GM as the head of decisions. This seems to be the way to go. Im fine with it. The Browns announced they are also going "coach centric". pats are the best known coach centric team bc of Bill and his success.

Rivera said in his long meetings with Dan that Dan talked about the winning structure NE has.

If there are 15 competent Head Coaches and maybe 10 competent GMs in the league ... why shackle your competent Head Coach with an incompetent GM or vice versa. Assuming you are lucky enough to have a competent Head Coach or a competent GM. If you dont, you are the Redskins for the past 6 years or so.

We seem to have a competent Head Coach. Why not let him be the center vs bringing in a less than ideal guy for GM just because we think we need to have someone named GM.

Wouldnt be surprised if we dont hire/have a named GM.

Rivera/Rob Rogers/Kyle Smith/Alex Santos seems to be our 4 headed decision making committee. Im fine with that.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1242638]I would guess it had more to do with getting rid of one of Dan's cronies. Snyder no longer has any of his sycophants in the building he can use to influence football decisions. This isn't to say that Schaffer was not really good at his job, but reports were that last year, they were re-negotiating his contract and he wanted more money and more influence over personnel decisions. That is clearly not his forte, so its a good move to let him move on and bring in someone who will stay in their lane and do their job. It has also been insinuated a number of places that Shaffer was the source of a lot of the teams leaks.

I forget who it was, but I saw someone on twitter post that its a sign of a good house-cleaning when competent people lose their jobs. Rivera is bringing in people who HE hired, who are beholden to him, and who share his vision. There will be no power-plays or mutinies by any of the old hold-overs. The team will either succeed or fail based solely on the job Rivera does, and he's not going to be undermined by any of the old guard.

The skins have needed to clean house for a LONG time, and I'm glad to see the it finally playing out. I continue to be supremely impressed with everything Rivera is doing. This is the first time since Dan hired Vinny that we have legitimate reasons for complete optimism for this franchise. True football people are in charge of making the football decisions.[/quote]

I agree that clearing the deep roots out is one of the reasons for the change, however, the owner Tepper is big on analytics, and Rogers was the guy they put in place to create the analytics department. I don't think that he would leave a job that has huge upside with the team owner without some incentive to build the team up here, likely including building an analytics department here (though no announcement like that has come out yet).

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1242642]I agree that clearing the deep roots out is one of the reasons for the change, however, the owner Tepper is big on analytics, and Rogers was the guy they put in place to create the analytics department. I don't think that he would leave a job that has huge upside with the team owner without some incentive to build the team up here, likely including building an analytics department here (though no announcement like that has come out yet).[/quote]

This could be my own ignorance, but I have no idea what Analytics means in terms of building a football team, other than that the Browns tried to "moneyball" football and have completely failed. I also have read that Rivera is not a big believer.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1242644]This could be my own ignorance, but I have no idea what Analytics means in terms of building a football team, other than that the Browns tried to "moneyball" football and have completely failed. I also have read that Rivera is not a big believer.[/quote]

Andrew Brandt wrote an [URL="https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/01/07/cleveland-browns-jimmy-haslam-constant-change?xid=socialflow_twitter_si&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sinow"]excellent article[/URL] about this.

The Browns didn't fail at "moneyball" they really didn't try it. The article talks about how the Browns hired DePodesta, but never paired him with a coach that would be on board with analytics nor did they allow him to hire a coach that would be on board with it (Hue, Kitchens were never on board with it).

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

IDK if I'm buying all this analytics stuff. In the end you have to look at the tape and see how a guy performs in games, how fast he runs in games, not at the underwear Olympics.

Belichick was talking about this stuff on some show. He said that after a loss the team got on the plane and some of the front office guys were on their pads doing some of this stuff. After he watched the tape of the game he came to the conclusion that the reason they lost the game was they didn't tackle well enough... lol.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1242647]IDK if I'm buying all this analytics stuff. In the end you have to look at the tape and see how a guy performs in games, how fast he runs in games, not at the underwear Olympics.

Belichick was talking about this stuff on some show. He said that after a loss the team got on the plane and some of the front office guys were on their pads doing some of this stuff. After he watched the tape of the game he came to the conclusion that the reason they lost the game was they didn't tackle well enough... lol.[/quote]

Analytics these days includes way more than just the underwear olympics. These guys are looking at playcall success rate vs certain defenses, probability of converting downs with certain personnel on the field and MUCH more than I can pretend to know off the top of my head.

While I agree, analytics are not the end all-be all decider and heart/passion can play a big part in a teams success, I'm not against using it in today's modern era. To not even HAVE an analytics department in 2020 is ridiculous and a bit ignorant if you ask me.

I say add it to the toolbox and if it can swing even one game in our favor it's a plus.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=sevier2;1242648]Analytics these days includes way more than just the underwear olympics. These guys are looking at playcall success rate vs certain defenses, probability of converting downs with certain personnel on the field and MUCH more than I can pretend to know off the top of my head.

While I agree, analytics are not the end all-be all decider and heart/passion can play a big part in a teams success, I'm not against using it in today's modern era. To not even HAVE an analytics department in 2020 is ridiculous and a bit ignorant if you ask me.

I say add it to the toolbox and if it can swing even one game in our favor it's a plus.[/quote]

Agree. I think you need it in a balanced form...you still need that instinctual sense in your coordinating coaches. Game has feel and rhythm to it...also you need to know when to make adjustments. In planing, analytics really helps, real time, I’ll trust a harden football coach with instinct about the game

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1242649]Agree. I think you need it in a balanced form...you still need that instinctual sense in your coordinating coaches. Game has feel and rhythm to it...also you need to know when to make adjustments. In planing, analytics really helps, real time, I’ll trust a harden football coach with instinct about the game[/QUOTE]I think this is exactly how Rivera sees it based on his comments.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

Agree with last 3 posts. You take what you see on film AND the numbers.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

Good for KOC and McVay

Rams are finalizing a deal to make former Redskins offensive coordinator Kevin O'Connell their offensive coordinator, per source. O’Connell succeeded McVay as OC in Washington, now will work with him in LA.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1242668]Good for KOC and McVay

Rams are finalizing a deal to make former Redskins offensive coordinator Kevin O'Connell their offensive coordinator, per source. O’Connell succeeded McVay as OC in Washington, now will work with him in LA.[/quote]

Here you go, forgot this:

[url]https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28460404/rams-set-hire-brandon-staley-kevin-oconnell-coordinators[/url]

I'm really surprised it only took like a week for KOC to get snatched up, thought he did nothing to deserve playcaller or coordinator responsibilities while he was here.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

Rivera can do whatever he wants. Bring over your gang from Carolina. They have been a better franchise than we have for years.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1242677]Rivera can do whatever he wants. Bring over your gang from Carolina. They have been a better franchise than we have for years.[/QUOTE]Really. If you want to change the culture a good way is to import it en masse from a franchise that is respected.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1242680]Really. If you want to change the culture a good way is to import it en masse from a franchise that is respected.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]



Exactly

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1242682]Exactly[/QUOTE]



Two things on this.

I really hope he’s right letting Hilliard and KOC walk. We will see.

I’m concerned that he’s not making hiring decision on who’s truly best for the job or who has the most talent. He’s only hiring everyone from Carolina and old friends.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[QUOTE=5superbowls3wins;1242689]Two things on this.

I really hope he’s right letting Hilliard and KOC walk. We will see.

I’m concerned that he’s not making hiring decision on who’s truly best for the job or who has the most talent. He’s only hiring everyone from Carolina and old friends.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]One of the huge gripes before was that there were multiple voices with multiple directions, ie callahan wanting run heavy, jay wanting whatever his offense was etc.

If Rivera wants a staff that is in tune AND inline with his vision of the team, that has to be part of the best man for the job decision. Hilliard or KOC might go on to do great things, I hope they do. But my understanding is that KOC wanted final say on his coaches, and that is asking for little fiefdoms, IN the Redskins past structures.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=punch it in;1242677][B]Rivera can do whatever he wants.[/B] Bring over your gang from Carolina. They have been a better franchise than we have for years.[/quote]

I agree with you 100%. I've always felt that an NFL owner should hire the best person he can find as the unquestioned leader of football operations and judge that person's performance primarily on W's and L's over a fair and reasonable period of time.

- No responsibilities unrelated to winning football games.

- No murkiness over who is responsible for what.

- No finger pointing.

- No palace intrigue.

- No "but we're winning off the field" nonsense.

Hopefully, it's all about the W's now. Any of us should be able to appraise the job Rivera does under the new setup. Just look at the standings. That's the way it should be.

Re: Coaching and Front Office Changes
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1242691]One of the huge gripes before was that there were multiple voices with multiple directions, ie callahan wanting run heavy, jay wanting whatever his offense was etc.

If Rivera wants a staff that is in tune AND inline with his vision of the team, that has to be part of the best man for the job decision. Hilliard or KOC might go on to do great things, I hope they do. But my understanding is that KOC wanted final say on his coaches, and that is asking for little fiefdoms, IN the Redskins past structures.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

Exactly. A HC needs a staff that all sing from the same hymn sheet as the HC but aren't afraid to challenge where necessary and create their own ideas. He could have just sent KOC packing, but he interviewed him as well as Turner then chose who he wanted. The fact McVay grabbed KOC straight away says exactly the same thing; he knows KOC is on the same page as him.