Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Someone mentioned somewhere on one of these threads, and I think it's a good point, that the Redskins did what they had to do to beat the Bears. They didn't need to explode offensively or show various wrinkles. No need to show too much before Dallas. Just get the win and go home.[/QUOTE]


Oh stop it Taf, come on do you really believe that? We won by 2 points, if Gibbs believes that a 2 point victory 9-7 is a safe bet he needs to retire now! We were 1 big play away from losing that game, come on Taf your better than that!

On another note, do you think Gibbs is going to come up with something Parcells hasen't seen? If that were the case Taylor would not have been in on offense, IMO that is a move of deperation.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=LadyT]If it's true I don't blame him one bit. I have just lost ALL respect for Gibbs.

Get ready for another dismal season, Skins fans. Does anyone out there really think that Brunell will take us to the playoffs? HAH!

What really ticks me off is that, last year, Gibbs gave Brunell every chance to improve - far more games than he deserved, before he finally yanked him. This year, he says Ramsey is the man and he gives him all of 1 game? What in the **** is going on here?

I'll never believe another thing that Gibbs says and, mark my words, neither will any of the other players. From comments I've read, many of them seem to prefer Ramsey.[/QUOTE]


I like your style lady T! :biggthump


I do believe you nailed it, don't let some of these guy's discourage you, tough it out.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=offiss]
On another note, do you think Gibbs is going to come up with something Parcells hasen't seen? If that were the case Taylor would not have been in on offense, IMO that is a move of deperation.[/QUOTE]

with the lack of big targets in our WR corps for the red zone (see? it *was* a problem), having Taylor for that limited situation makes tons of sense, and was actually a very resourceful move.

no, going back to Brunell as the starter after the first 19 minutes of the regular season was clearly the desperation move.

:banghead:

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]with the lack of big targets in our WR corps for the red zone (see? it *was* a problem), having Taylor for that limited situation makes tons of sense, and was actually a very resourceful move.

no, going back to Brunell as the starter after the first 19 minutes of the regular season was clearly the desperation move.

:banghead:[/QUOTE]


I understand that and agree with you ill, but the purpose of that comment was to something TAFKAS wrote in stating basically we held back our offense and didn't want to show any wrinkles to the boy's and thats why we didn't do to much on offense, and thats why I brought up the Taylor move, if that were the case why allow dallas a chance to prepare for a guy like Taylor.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

To think, all Ramsey had to was rush him to the hospital to get his insulin shot and he would had chance after chance.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

right. well unfortunately even against the Bears, points were of the utmost importance. i'm hoping what Gibbs is really hiding from Parcells is that Ramsey is the actual starter, and created this circus to just throw Tuna off and gameplan for Brunell instead.

here's hoping.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]right. well unfortunately even against the Bears, points were of the utmost importance. i'm hoping what Gibbs is really hiding from Parcells is that Ramsey is the actual starter, and created this circus to just throw Tuna off and gameplan for Brunell instead.

here's hoping.[/QUOTE]


Oh, it's Brunnell, alright. Check out GIbb's press conference on [URL=http://www.redskins.com/]skins.com[/URL] if you haven't already.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Drift Reality]Okay guys, I've had enough debate for one night. Before I crash out though, I want to leave you with a great read from 1990 - before the 'Skins won the Super Bowl in '91.

I just thought it interesting in light of the current situation.

For Gibbs, Great QB Hasn't Come to Pass by Thomas Boswell


Maybe it's Joe Gibbs's curse or his legacy to be remembered as the best NFL coach who never had a great quarterback.

Play name association and it only requires a blink to hook names such as Tom Landry, Bud Grant, Bill Walsh, Chuck Noll, Vince Lombardi and Paul Brown with the legends who threw the ball for them: Roger Staubach, Fran Tarkenton, Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw, Bart Starr and Otto Graham. Weeb Ewbank reached Canton courtesy of Johnny Unitas and Joe Namath. Don Shula has had Unitas, Bob Griese and Dan Marino.

Gibbs has had Joe Theismann. And, though he was pretty spry for a couple of years, that's just not the same. And, of course, Doug Williams had his moments of glory, especially when he helped the Redskins crush Denver in the Super Bowl in 1988 and won the MVP award.

It's probably psychologically impossible for an NFL coach, especially one who works 110 of the 168 hours in a week, to wake up on his office cot in the morning and say to himself, "At least 10 teams in this league have a better quarterback than any of mine will ever be."

First, Gibbs became infatuated with Jay Schroeder. Then Mark Rypien. Then Stan Humphries. And now it's Cary Conklin. Every year since Joe Theismann's leg was broken, Gibbs has become smitten with a big, strong, new, young quarterback. They're nearly identical long shot mid-round draft choices.

Some are tough guys. Some throw the ball through a wall. Some have quick feet. Some are smart. Some are leaders. But none of them is "All of the above."

What makes the irony doubly rich, and doubly annoying to Gibbs, is that he made his reputation as an offensive thinker and as a teacher of passers, especially Dan Fouts. With the Redskins, Gibbs has assembled and maintained The Hogs. He's created Riggo Drills and H-backs. He's elevated men-in-motion and formation shifts to an art form. He's spotted enough superior receivers for a Fun Bunch and a Posse.

It's as though Gibbs has spent a decade assembling all the parts of a Frankenstein Monster but has never been able to throw the switch and give it life. What would this man do if he ever had a Hall of Fame quarterback? His '83 team already holds the NFL scoring record of 541 points.

Because Gibbs's desire for a great passer is so deep, his young apprentices operate under a severe burden. Their opportunity is enormous; after all, even Williams in the latter stages of his career won a Super Bowl with Gibbs. But Gibbs's expectation for improvement and performance are high too. With Gibbs, when you stop getting better, you start disappearing.

Schroeder left town with bad feelings between he and Gibbs. Now, the whole town knows that Humphries has lost favor with the coach and may be traded in the next month. At the moment, Conklin, on "injured reserve" for four weeks with a "knee" injury, is the object of Gibbs's fantasies. Meanwhile, Rypien, the precariously positioned starter, is the man on the hot seat who'd better produce.

"I like Cary Conklin very much," said Gibbs yesterday. "He has done nothing but impress me. He has a very bright future. He has a lot of tools. Everything I've seen from Cary, I like. He had a great camp. I told him today how I felt about him. I think that's what he wanted to hear."

Within the last five years, you could have substituted the names Schroeder, Rypien and Humphries for Conklin in almost identical Gibbs bouquets.

As for Rypien, who spent two years on injured reserve awaiting Gibbs's tap on the shoulder, this is clearly his season to be spectacular or prepare to be eased out of the picture. "Hopefully, this is Rip's year to be healthy and take off," said Gibbs yesterday. "Mark has had [four] years to get ready. Now's the time to step up . . . You coach 'em, surround 'em with the absolute best [players] you can. But they need to seize the moment. It's their responsibility to step up and take it."

Because the Redskins, in Gibbs's tenure, have never been a bad team, the club has never been in position to draft a potential franchise quarterback such as Troy Aikman or Jeff George. As for trades, dream on. Nobody deals a premier quarterback for any price.

"I think our fans will get jacked up and support Mark, knowing he's our number one quarterback," said Gibbs. "But will he be booed [sometimes]? He'll have to deal with that. In Washington, it's when he wins a Super Bowl that everybody will think he's done what he should."

That's not just an astronomical standard set by fickle fans or a demanding owner. That's Gibbs's standard too. Since he was hired in 1981, only San Francisco has had a better record than Washington's 113-55.

The Redskins are also second-best in the NFL over the last 10 years in home record (.747), road record (.600), interconference record and record in the season's final month (.775). Nobody has as good a playoff winning percentage.

Now, the Redskins begin what has been an annual agony of quarterback analysis and maturation. What Schroeder and, apparently, Humphries have been deemed incapable of doing, Rypien will be given one more chance to create. With Conklin looking over his shoulder.

Sometimes, an entire town or team can rally around an old or limited quarterback. It's happened with Billy Kilmer and Williams in Washington and with Joe Kapp and Jim Plunkett elsewhere. However, such a generous fate is unlikely to await any young Redskins quarterback. In part because of Gibbs's dreams of greatness, a different and more demanding tone has set around the Redskins.

"In the NFL, it's like familiarity breeds contempt," said Gibbs. "The fans boo the number one guy and root for number two."

Joe Gibbs isn't an antsy fan. But when it comes to quarterbacks, he has to fight the temptation to act like one. So far, especially in the case of Rypien, Gibbs has shown remarkable patience. Maybe that's because he knows better than anyone else that he has little choice. He has been, and will probably long remain, the Hall of Fame coach with no Hall of Fame quarterback.[/QUOTE]

That's a great article. Thank you for posting it! It really sheds some light on the issue. And that is that now matter who is under center, Gibbs expects you to play smart football or else you won't play for him. And the end result is winning.

After all, that same year we went on a roll and almost went undefeated... at least we were for most of the season. And Mark Brunell was the MVP that year. It was also a year when the offensive line didn't allow sacks.

The offensive line of this year is starting to remind me of the 1991 offensive line. They're not quite their yet (like letting Ramsey get closelined), but at times I see flashes of that greatness.

And that's another thing that bugs me from what I've seen from Ramsey this year. There's been times where he's had all day to throw, not a defender in sight, yet he still did one of 2 bad things: he either took a sack or threw it into coverage.

THIS YEAR (I can't stress that enough since it is a whole new year and players are better prepared & trained with the offense) I've seen Brunell either throw the ball out of bounds, or take off and run in that tight coverage situation.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep]Questions:

1. Is brunnell really better than last year? He looked much better in preseason--everyone, on this board and elsewhere else saw it and it was much discussed. If that player shows up on Monday, then the substance, if not the style, of the move will be acceptable. We'll know soon.

2. Will Ramsey EVER learn to read NFL defenses? This is, I believe, the root of the problem. He misreads and throws INTs. Or he can't find his hot read and throws an INT. Or he he can't find anyone, and takes a sack, and maybe fumbles as well--remember, we've questioned here before whether he holds the ball too long. He does. Gibbs can see this, as can anyone else. PR makes his best throws when given LOTS of time. Then he guns it somewhere. But Ds know this and blitz. That makes things difficult. Sometimes Ramsey gets comfortable and looks good, but then he gets hit or confused, and trouble happens. I like the kid--and his good moments are a serious tease. But this is the truth. Maybe he'll get better, and I would have stuck with him, especially after naming him the starter (the REAL MISTAKE HERE, IMO). But he hasn't shown it yet. And Gibbs sees him every practice; GIbbs watches every film; Gibbs knows about QBs.

3. Can Brunnell stay healthy all year? No way, IMO. He's just too old.

4. Who plays if Brunnell goes down? For all of Gibbs mistrust of PR, I very much doubt it's Campbell. So we're gonna need PR to calm down and ease up.

5. Who is Mort's source on the claim that Pat wants to be traded? Was it Pat? His Agent? Unnamed sources in Redskin park? Very curious.

6. How will the team react? I think they'll be fine. Moss and Patten have been muted in their comments on Ramsey. Jansen is his buddy, but no way that means he plays with any less fire for Brunnell. Portis looked great with Brunnell, and has been a leader anyway.

7. How will Gibbs react if Mark plays like he did last year? Will he pull Mark and play revolving QBs? Or will he go down with the Brunnell ship, tarnishing his legacy as he goes? How will the Danny react? This is the nightmare scenario that Dr Z, Pasta, and every other anti-skin pundit have been waiting for.

Hold tight, lads. These are the times that try men's (and women's) souls.

It's always darkest before the dawn.[/QUOTE]

Finally, a level headed wise old fan. ;)

Those are all excellent points and questions.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

OLD???? lol. ;)

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

I alway's said if Gibbs had Marino for his first tenure here both would have at least 5 rings.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep]OLD???? lol. ;)[/QUOTE]

Old as in long time fan. ;)

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

I don't like the fact that 'Ramsey wants a trade'. I don't see this being the end of his career as a Redskin. Its a decision about wk2. I think it's an overreaction on him and his agent's part. Don't be a bitch. You're on this team and you haven't proven anything yet other than you can take some licks. Gibbs decision is about winning and ball control, no dumb penalties or stupid turnovers. Everyone makes mistakes, but Ramsey makes them more of them. He should be a man and work harder and heal his neck. I hope we haven't seen the end of his career as a Redskin and I don't believe Brunell will play every game as a starter. He needs to sit tight and realize there is a bigger picture. Remember Brady's first Superbowl win was with Drew Bledsoe on the bench. It is a long season, let's not make hasty remarks like "I want a trade". To me that's just foolish. I know everyone likes job security but I think ya gotta earn that.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=monk81]Gibbs just won't tolerate the same stupid mistakes.............[/QUOTE]

unless brunell is making them ;).

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]Ramsey replaced Brunell on week two. Or do you want to forget Ramsey's 3 INTs against the Giants. Every opportunity Ramsey has been given, he has squandered on his lonesome. He's an erratic mediocre second string QB at best. He'll never and I mean never be a top rated QB because of inconsistency. Reminds me of Chad Pennington more and more everyday.[/QUOTE]

and yet he's still better than brunell.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]SUNRA, I know that your were one of Brunell's biggest fans last year. I also recall that you were one of the last people to call for Brunell's benching and defended him basically until the week he got yanked. Is that in any way playing into your assessment of Ramsey and Brunell?[/QUOTE]

he's also totally hated ramsey for a long time, so that might play into it as well ;)

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]You must admit, this is not the same Brunell from 2004. This guy was not sacked against a blitzing defense that knocked a younger guy out of the game. No INTs. No fumbles. And Portis had over 100yds. I mean this is the way its going to be in some games.[/QUOTE]

he was sacked, maybe you missed it...

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]The velocity on his ball has been better than Ramsey's since preseason. How many times did Ramsey underthrow Santana Moss and every other WR in preseason? Give me something tangible that would indicate why Ramsey should be a starting QB anywhere in the NFL. More INT than TDs will not get it done.[/QUOTE]

his velocity's been better? I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. I know you like brunell, if you think he's playing better or whatever that's cool, but he never threw deep in preseason, so i don't know how you can say he has more velocity... also last year, brunell had 7tds 6 ints, ramsey was 10 and 11, those ratios are NOT that different, so i'm not buying that personally.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]33 TD'S, 29 INTS... That's tangible to be in the NFL? Not even NFL Europe.[/QUOTE]

look at bledsoe or plummer, you may not like it, but it definately is. brunell was 7 and 6 last season, so i think that arguement has no merit.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]So Ramsey gets one, two, three, (and so on) chances but Brunell gets just one?[/QUOTE]

one chance? he had 9 god awful wretched weeks last year, that's NOT one chance.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I don't know. I just don't get why every one thinks Brunell starting is a sign of the apocalypse[/QUOTE]

um, re: brunell sucks, watch last year's games :/

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Longtimefan]This sounds like the same baby tune he cried when Brunell came aboard last year. I want to be traded if I'm not the starter. Some say Gibbs does not like him, well maybe that's one of the reasons why. This guy really has an inflated oponion of himself and for the life of me I cannot understand why. He has done nothing, and proved nothing in the NFL and he's demanding a trade, (unbelievable) He may be lucky if anyone will want to trade for him. Maybe someone who wants a crybaby.[/QUOTE]

I would love to see how you would react at your job, if your boss basically brought someone in, who no matter how inept they were did your job and got your salary and you were demoted to basically making coffee and loading up the copier. How long would you stick around, knowing you would NEVER have any chance at promotional oppurtunity or a fair shake at getting your job back?

I think you would be asking for a "trade" that is another job. So get off Ramsey's back and stop calling him a baby, no one would put up with the type of treatment that he has put up with if at was at there workplace.

If you are a Brunell fan enjoy it...may he lead the team to victory. Ramsey is on the bench so no reason to rip him anymore. By the same token if Brunell puts up less than a 100 yards passing in Big-D and the Cowboys stomp the Skins I don't want to hear any bitching from the Brunell bandwagon crowd, you've got your guy behind center so deal with it.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=PIG SKIN]At least he gets up after getting hit again and again and doesn't whine about it.

It's laughable that at 20 years old you can make that comment.[/QUOTE]

its laughable that at your age you're so horribly immature.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

Many, Many QB's have been benched for substandard play (including Joe Theisman). If this is how he handles life challenges....................so be it, his choice. Gibbs record and career are what they are. Did we see Brunell react this way when Ramsey got the starter job? I will be sorry to see him go as he has great potential. Fot the moment, he gives no indication of cementing himself in a starters role. Sadly it can be said for many other QB's that never reached their full potential, like, Jeff George.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

I feel bad for PR because he got stuck in a situation where he was never wanted from the beginning. OBC did not want him and neither did Gibbs. Hopefully PR will get traded somewhere where he can try to revive his career.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

I don't think it's a matter of Gibbs "not wanting" him. It's not a personal thing. I believe early on, Gibb's saw something in him that made him think he "did not have it". So far he has been correct. I'm a big Ramsey supporter, but even I have to say in the heat of battle, his response is ridiculous (not the first time). He is making a huge mistake. Also, I doubt if Gibbs makes this decision without consulting his coaching staff who I assume are at the least, mostly (if not totally) in agreement.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Hog1]Many, Many QB's have been benched for substandard play (including Joe Theisman). If this is how he handles life challenges....................so be it, his choice. Gibbs record and career are what they are. Did we see Brunell react this way when Ramsey got the starter job? I will be sorry to see him go as he has great potential. Fot the moment, he gives no indication of cementing himself in a starters role. Sadly it can be said for many other QB's that never reached their full potential, like, Jeff George.[/QUOTE]

well, ramsey's contract is for 5mill and brunells is for 42mill, so that might be part of him not complaining ;)

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]By the way, we're leading in our division in week one. Philly just lost. 14-10. Lets go Skins its our year.[/QUOTE]

That's the bottom line... we have a jump on Philly!!!
:dallas:

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

You know guys, all of this panic is for nothing. Because I saw it strait from the hosses mouth that he did NOT say he wants to be traded. I saw it on Comcast Sportrise that he had said on the Monday Night Redskins show they have, (at that fancy cafe) where he was a guest, that he did not say that.

This seems to be all the work of his agent again. Who never bothered to speak to Patrick about it. I think his agent is too worried about getting a pay off and for that to happen, Ramsey needs to be on the field performing.

I also just watched the Press Conference on Redskins.com TV. Coach Gibbs made some very interesting comments. One of them was when he drew comparisons from when Mark Rypien was first comming up. How he sat on the IR for 2 years then when he got his chance he threw 9 INTs in 8 games. Coach said they kept trying to instill it into Ryp that he can't allow those turn overs. And they worked with him on that in various drills and such. But the thing Gibbs said he thought got through to Rypien most was when he benched him after that and let some one else be the starter. And you know what happened after that when Mark Rypien got to play again. No more turn overs and hello to a Lombardi trophy! He was the league MVP!

So you never know, Ramsey just might not be done after all.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

Bring on Jason Campbell. Brunell will never lead us to the playoffs. Ramsey is not going to want to be here or ever feel secure in this town. Why waste time, let's get the rook some experience...

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy]Bring on Jason Campbell. Brunell will never lead us to the playoffs. Ramsey is not going to want to be here or ever feel secure in this town. Why waste time, let's get the rook some experience...[/QUOTE]

That means another season gone by the wayside because rookie QBs just cannot win in this league. Maybe MB can get the team rolling but if the season is toast by Nov then I agree, let the rookie get some experience.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

I'm going on last year when I say that. I honestly feel like starting Brunell is a statement. And that statement is "We're not going to win a whole hell of alot this year."

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy]I'm going on last year when I say that. I honestly feel like starting Brunell is a statement. And that statement is "We're not going to win a whole hell of alot this year."[/QUOTE]

Well I agree with the statement, but I think its more like..."We are not going to keep turning the ball over due to poor QB decisions and throws".

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=jbcjr14]Well I agree with the statement, but I think its more like..."We are not going to keep turning the ball over due to poor QB decisions and throws".[/QUOTE]

Perhaps, but we're also not going to find the endzone either.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

Remember, according to statements made last season by some Brunell's supporters, the defense isn't scoring enough points. We can't put all the blame on Brunell and the offense. I mean, why isn't the defense scoring more than 16 points per game!!!!

I expect to see more of the same sort of talk. People have put their pride on the line and will likely come up with any excuse NOT to blame Brunell (whereas they were right quick to blame Ramsey for everything).

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

Last year WAS Brunells fault. In my opinion, he had a lot to do with it. Of coarse much also lays on the recievers and backs for all of their dropped passes.

But that was LAST YEAR. Last year is OVER! This is THIS YEAR! It's a completely different season and there are a lot of variables from how one player performs from one season to the next. So far, I like what I've seen from Brunell THIS SEASON, and I do not from Patrick, THIS SEASON.

I can tell you how much I loved Patrick LAST YEAR and how much I thought he would be the guy LAST YEAR, but that wouldn't change a dang thing. It's past, it's over, and it's a new day. THIS YEAR has been a completely different story so far than what we saw last year.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[quote]Many, Many QB's have been benched for substandard play (including Joe Theisman).[/quote]

Substandard play? Ramsey had one turnover I blame him for. The hit Briggs put on him should have, by all accounts, been a penelty and I cant see anyone holding on to the ball after something like that. He also threw for more yards in 1 quarter than Brunell did for the rest of the game.

Here's the deal, I'd rather have a QB that can stretch the field, back the safeties off, and complete some long balls but turn it over more than someone who is a safer bet but makes small completions. Sorry, when you have a defense like ours you can afford turnovers from time to time. Ramsey gives us the best chance to score, and that's what we need.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

Thanks for the words of encouragement. The big boys on this board don't scare me at all. I've found that too many of them are willing to go whichever way Gibbs goes, without even thinking for themselves. Don't get me wrong, I used to love Gibbs and felt that he could do no wrong. I was so glad when Snyder brought him back. But my loyalty is not totally blind. At some point, you have to begin to think for yourself and stop following the leader, wherever he takes you, if you think the path he has chosen is wrong.

Never thought I would say this about Gibbs, but yesterday he lost a lot of the respect I always had in him. I am very disappointed in the shameful way he has treated Ramsey. It's now apparent that, despite what he said, Ramsey was never firmly his starting QB and that's what hurts the most - to realize you can no longer trust what Gibbs says. This is very detrimental to the team and its spirit.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=LadyT]Thanks for the words of encouragement. The big boys on this board don't scare me at all. I've found that too many of them are willing to go whichever way Gibbs goes, without even thinking for themselves. [/QUOTE]

To think you can make a better decision than Gibbs is insane. How many Super Bowl trophies have you won? Shoot, how many pop-warner trophies have you won? How many Skins meetings have you attended? How about practices? To say that you're more abreast of the situation than Gibbs is absolutely rediculous.

Big boy or not, every opinion matters, but I have take offense when opinions become intertwined with fuzzy stats and emotions.

I'm behind Gibbs 100%. Three Lombardi trophies don't lie.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=LadyT]Thanks for the words of encouragement. The big boys on this board don't scare me at all. I've found that too many of them are willing to go whichever way Gibbs goes, without even thinking for themselves. Don't get me wrong, I used to love Gibbs and felt that he could do no wrong. I was so glad when Snyder brought him back. But my loyalty is not totally blind. At some point, you have to begin to think for yourself and stop following the leader, wherever he takes you, if you think the path he has chosen is wrong.

Never thought I would say this about Gibbs, but yesterday he lost a lot of the respect I always had in him. I am very disappointed in the shameful way he has treated Ramsey. It's now apparent that, despite what he said, Ramsey was never firmly his starting QB and that's what hurts the most - to realize you can no longer trust what Gibbs says. This is very detrimental to the team and its spirit.[/QUOTE]

So I guess you'd take Ramsey over Gibbs at this point?