Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;421751]This jives with my thinking. The way we do things is not the problem. It has been the talent evaluation that has caused problems. If Arch is the player they thought he was then that move looks like a bargain at this point. Same with Lloyd. I actually like the way we approach things except for one fact. We need to start drafting linemen and using FA as the way to add skill. Skill players are pretty hit and miss mostly while linemen, bot defense and offense, are much easier to scout and usually come cheaper. If we start picking linemen with our good picks we'd be in better shape.[/QUOTE]

Well i think we have made progress there. Arch was GW's pick and his alone. Cerrato fought it. Gibbs backed GW and got him what he wanted. Llloyd... that was ALL Gibbs. The D linemen we got in the draft, Blanche undoubtably had alot to do with them... the people responsible for most of the bad personnel decisions this organization has made in recent years are gone. The people responsible for the good ones are still here.

Cerrato will be a good GM. He's a good personnel guy. Sure, he's made some big mistakes... but not recently. I seriously expect all but one or two of our offseason acquisitions (FA and draft) to pan out under his management.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[quote=talk show host;421755]EXCELLENT Post. you summed up my feelings exactly. Redskins Fans are particularly fickle, and I think even if we promoted Williams, a lot of fans would be griping that Snyder DIDN'T go after Cowher or some other big name. As much as my heart wanted GW, now that i've had time to process everything, i think NOT getting GW was a good decision. But I can't say any of the other candidates out there would have made me comfortable with our coaching situation.

[B]Truth be told, Gibbs couldn't have left at a worse time. There were really NO good solid HC candidates out there. Now next year will be another matter entirely. If Gibbs had just stayed one more year, we would have had a much better pool of candidates to select from[/B].[/quote]

Not only that but I think with the sudden way he left he really put Snyder in a bind. A few weeks earlier it was reported that Snyder was going to offer Gibbs an extension, and I think a lot of us expected him to sign it. At the very least it was expected that he would finish out his 5 year term. His retirement caught everyone off guard and left Snyder scrambling to put together a plan. I'm not trying to blame Gibbs, I think it was a bit of a sudden decision for himself and he probably didn't want to leave Snyder in a difficult situation, but it is what it is.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;421300]Only time will tell whether or not he's going to be a good HC. I'd would've rather had Fassel than Zorn. Hiring a HC w/out HC or OC experience is risk. Now we're about to hire a OC that's never even called plays? So we could potentially have a HC and an OC that's never called plays in the NFL?? Sigh...... Sorry but Fassel looks really good right about now.[/QUOTE]

Andy Reid started out as a Quarterback coach and went straight to being a head coach with the Eagles; ditto with Mooch as well. There is more to being a coach than X's and O's. They have got to be a motivator and make the players respect and want to play for them. In my opinion I think Zorn has those qualities where as Fassel did not. Maybe he will be a bust, maybe he will be a great coach untili the the season starts no one knows.

I for one say give him a chance and lets see what he has.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;421400]This guy from FoxSports is arguably worse. He describes two different coaches the same way, with completely opposite opinions on the two.

[url=http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/7786432/Putting-wacky-coach-carousel-in-perspective]FOX Sports on MSN - Adam Schein - Putting wacky coach carousel in perspective[/url][/QUOTE]

I really don't care what Adam Shein writes about the Redskins...my issue with him is that I have Sirius Satelite Radio and he is by far the worst radio talk show host I have ever heard. His big booming phony radio voice is intollerable, he constantly agrees with his cohost which does not exactly make for interesting discussions and he alwasy pats himself on the back for their endless parade of softball tossing player interviews. Someone needs to tell that blowhard that it's "NFL Radio", which means it isn't that big an accomplishement to get NFL players to pick up the phone! I could go on all night...I can't stomach that blowhard.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

I'm very optomistic about Zorn. My only fear is that he goes 7-9 or better and Snyder gives him the axe to go after Cowher next year. Now if we are 4-12 or worse, i would agree with such a move, but this team has way too much talent to be less than 5-11, even under a new regime.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[quote=talk show host;421789]I'm very optomistic about Zorn. My only fear is that he goes 7-9 or better and Snyder gives him the axe to go after Cowher next year. Now if we are 4-12 or worse, i would agree with such a move, but this team has way too much talent to be less than 5-11, even under a new regime.[/quote]


Do you honestly believe that Cowher would come here if Snyder did that and would'nt give him total control?

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[quote=talk show host;421789]I'm very optomistic about Zorn. My only fear is that he goes 7-9 or better and Snyder gives him the axe to go after Cowher next year. Now if we are 4-12 or worse, i would agree with such a move, but this team has way too much talent to be less than 5-11, even under a new regime.[/quote]

I loved the Cowher fantasy too but now it's time to come back to reality and realize that Cowher isn't going to come here. Ever. Unless Danny just hands the whole team over to him and after all of this hiring and firing we've done this season setting up a whole new team around WCO just for Zorn... Forget about it.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;421793]Do you honestly believe that Cowher would come here if Snyder did that and would'nt give him total control?[/QUOTE]


I want to be content with getting Cower out of my system all together, because I do not think Snyder would fire Zorn even if he's not wholly successful in his first year.

On the other hand, what would be considered success for this team in 2008? Would anything short of a playoff apearence be considered a failure? I'm more concerned with the fan reaction to Zorn if he struggles some in this his initial season.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[quote=Longtimefan;421804]I want to be content with getting Cower out of my system all together, because I do not think Snyder would fire Zorn even if he's not wholly successful in his first year.

On the other hand, what would be considered success for this team in 2008? Would anything short of a playoff apearence be considered a failure? I'm more concerned with the fan reaction to Zorn if he struggles some in this his initial season.[/quote]

Success to me, depending on how much we change the team around would be anything above .500, so I guess that would mean at least a wild card appearance.

I don't know if I could say no playoff appearance = failure but it sure would prove the dissenters right.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

I don't get the love for Cowher. Count me as firmly in the "he's overrated bigtime" group. I haven't one clue why everyone thinks he a savior. He was never a personell guy in Pittsburg and definitely has a Marty Schottenheimer feel to him. You that feeling that he really is only like 10-6 type coach who has trouble winning the big ones. He did get a SB but 1 in 12 years really isn't all that great. Don't get me wrong I don't think he is a bad coach but I am not convinced he is as great as many would like to believe.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

I think we have playoff potential. If we play well and miss the playoffs I'd be ok. I am more worried about us simply playing poorly. Given good health and solid gameplans I think we are a playoff team. Anything less than solid play wouldn't be success to me.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;421812]I don't get the love for Cowher. Count me as firmly in the "he's overrated bigtime" group. I haven't one clue why everyone thinks he a savior. He was never a personell guy in Pittsburg and definitely has a Marty Schottenheimer feel to him. You that feeling that he really is only like 10-6 type coach who has trouble winning the big ones. He did get a SB but 1 in 12 years really isn't all that great. Don't get me wrong I don't think he is a bad coach but I am not convinced he is as great as many would like to believe.[/QUOTE]

Amen! Cowher is so overrated...he was somehow cleansed by that improbable super bowl run a couple years ago. He had so many high seeds go belly up at home in the playoffs. He is a total Shotenheimer except for that one playoff run. Good coach but nothing special. You listen to the media talk and its like Canton is preparing his bust...

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;421807]Success to me, depending on how much we change the team around would be anything above .500, so I guess that would mean at least a wild card appearance.

I don't know if I could say no playoff appearance = failure but it sure would prove the dissenters right.[/QUOTE]


That's one of the problems I envision on the horizon, no playoff apearence and the pessimists will have fuel to raise their voices. The expectations are going to be high [as well they should be] despite the fact we have a new HC with minimal, to no experience in the position. Under normal circumstances one would think that fact alone would warrant a grace period.

However, Zorn has inherited a playoff team in a division with no team playing under 500, that automatically raises the competitive level as well what's expected from the team standpoint.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;421400]This guy from FoxSports is arguably worse. He describes two different coaches the same way, with completely opposite opinions on the two.

[URL="http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/7786432/Putting-wacky-coach-carousel-in-perspective"]FOX Sports on MSN - Adam Schein - Putting wacky coach carousel in perspective[/URL][/quote]

LOL what a joke

:doh:

Perhaps even worse, he doesn't even understand the Rooney rule and how it applies to hiring from within:

[quote][B]Mora's the man, but were rules violated?[/B]

Mike Holmgren announced that he's coming back to Seattle for 2008 but it would be his final season in the great Northwest. Instead of having a farewell tour and lame duck situation surrounding the team, Tim Ruskell and Paul Allen appointed Jim Mora as Holmgren's replacement.


For the record, I love Mora. He's energetic, experienced, and did a great job with the Seattle defensive backs this past season. And if you blamed him for anything that happened during his run in Atlanta, he was certainly exonerated over the last 365 days.


But I am wondering aloud how this appointment affects the Rooney Rule, or at least the spirit of the Rooney Rule. Isn't the Rooney Rule about opportunity for minority candidates? Technically, you don't violate the rule by promoting within from your own staff. But it still doesn't seem right. The Steelers didn't name a successor for Bill Cowher, and that led them down a surprising path to Mike Tomlin, who has turned out to be perfect.


This appointment costs a minority candidate a chance to interview and impress and that is highly unfortunate.[/quote]A quick google search on "Rooney Rule" shows this:

[quote]However, the rule does not apply if an assistant coach has language in his contract guaranteeing him the starting job in case of an opening. [URL="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/01/the_rooney_rule.html"][1][/URL] This was the case when [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Martz"]Mike Martz[/URL] took over as head coach of the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis_Rams"]St. Louis Rams[/URL] before the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000"]2000[/URL] season.[/quote]I think this guy owes me for doing his research for him.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;421815]I think we have playoff potential. If we play well and miss the playoffs I'd be ok. I am more worried about us simply playing poorly. Given good health and solid gameplans I think we are a playoff team. Anything less than solid play wouldn't be success to me.[/QUOTE]

How many playoff games did they lose at home over the years? Wasn't it like 3 or 4 in the championship game alone?