Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=firstdown;557212]First off take that 45 million and cut that in half and thats closer to the number of people who cannot get or cannot afford health ins.[/quote]
link? and anyway, isn't 22 million people without insurance enough?

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=dmek25;557316]link? and anyway, isn't 22 million people without insurance enough?[/quote]
22 million is not enough in the big picture to tear apart our complete health care system. I'm too lazy to look up the numbers but in that 45 million that encludes people who loose their coverage for a short period of time, young adults who feel they dont need coverage, people who could afford coverage but decide to buy other things, ect.... Heck, if our goverment cannot run Medicare or Social Security right why do would we want them to run our health care which will be a much larger task? Medicare and Social Security are both in trouble now and have been in the pass so the goverment has had to cut the coverage, raise deductibles, tax SS, etc... and that's the same thing that will happen to goverment provided health coverage. Heck, even with the cuts they have made in those programs both are still in trouble.

Re: the new health care?
 

What about eliminating the employer/health insurance link alltogether?

Make a total overhaul and allow people to join associations (or something of that ilk) that provide health insurance. Then people can pick and choose what association they'd like to be a part of...the association can more precisely manage membership demographics to provide a good balance. The associations should be non-profit orgs driven to balanced budgets. Just an idea that needs a lot more thought to it but maybe it could at least remove the barrier of needing employment to even have a chance to afford insurance. Even lower income folks could find an association that provides basic major medical at a low cost because of the group insurance rates and that would be a plus.

Re: the new health care?
 

so we let the insurance/ medical field control the costs of managed health care? that seems to working just fine( not) i have an idea. lets try something new! oh my god, i said it. the dreaded change word, that petrifies many

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=dmek25;557364]so we let the insurance/ medical field control the costs of managed health care? that seems to working just fine( not) i have an idea. lets try something new! oh my god, i said it. the dreaded change word, that petrifies many[/quote]
As Ecclesiastes says: "there is nothing new under the sun"

Most ways of involving the government in health care have been tried in other countries. Every one, including ours, leaves something to be desired. I hope HSA's are the wave that the country goes forward with, as they seem to offer the best incentive to keep costs down and service quality up.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=dmek25;557364]so we let the insurance/ medical field control the costs of managed health care? that seems to working just fine( not) i have an idea. lets try something new! oh my god, i said it. the dreaded change word, that petrifies many[/quote]
The goverment allready has a failin health system but you wnat them to start another system that will have the same problems. Heck even the post office is running in the red of around 3 billion a year.

Re: the new health care?
 

The Post office is loosing money.
[url=http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2009/03/postal_service_could_run_out_o.html]Postal Service could run out of money this year, postmaster general says - Business – cleveland.com[/url]
Social Security is going bankrupt
[url=http://www.heritage.org/Research/SocialSecurity/wm1429.cfm]2007 Social Security Trustees Report Shows the Urgency of Reform[/url]
Medicare in in bad financial trouble
[url=http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/index.html]Trustees Report Summary[/url]
Oh, by the way the US is running in the negative already.
[url=http://brillig.com/debt_clock/]U.S. National Debt Clock[/url]
So why the heck would we even want the goverment to take on even a bigger task? For the sake of "Change"?

We also saw how good the govermant worked bailing out the banks, GMC, Chrysler, AIG they really have their act together.

Re: the new health care?
 

OK, then what do we do? just let things go on the way they are? pretty soon no one will make a decent wage, because of employers rising health care costs. and that's very hypocritical of you to all of a sudden worry about the national debt. where were you the last 8 years? right now, every U.S. business is feeling the bad economy. i promise, things will get better

Re: the new health care?
 

Is there any sector that is running things in the green right now?

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;557383]Is there any sector that is running things in the green right now?[/quote]
My office has grown in the past year.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=dmek25;557376]OK, then what do we do? just let things go on the way they are? pretty soon no one will make a decent wage, because of employers rising health care costs. and that's very hypocritical of you to all of a sudden worry about the national debt. where were you the last 8 years? right now, every U.S. business is feeling the bad economy. i promise, things will get better[/quote]

The Democrats have been in control of Congress since 2006. No one liked it when the Republicans spent a lot of money. Why would we like it when the Dems spend double that amount?

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=dmek25;557376]OK, then what do we do? just let things go on the way they are? pretty soon no one will make a decent wage, because of employers rising health care costs. and [B]that's very hypocritical of you to all of a sudden worry about the national deb[/B]t. where were you the last 8 years? right now, every U.S. business is feeling the bad economy. i promise, things will get better[/quote]

What alot of people don't seem to understand is how disgusted fiscal conservatives were with Bush about the debt. Doesn't mean they suddenly wanted Democrats in office, but they were not cheering Bush on as the country went on an ever larger spending spree.

Personally, i grew up a Republican, held a lot of ideals as a Republican, but after they had their chance and ended up going on spending sprees for the rich, at the country's expense, I could not vote for Republicans. Didn't want to vote Democratic either, cuz we know they will spend out of control, so that leaves me, and people like me, who want the government's roll to be minimal, and within a fixed budget, left without any useful voice. It is sad to see our country go down this road, and I speak of the out of control spending road, not Obama personally or even anti Democrat road. Just a road, where every single thing needs government assistance, or else somehow, we won't survive.
I hope I am wrong, I hope that Obama, the Democrats, and the Republicans all realize that unrestrained spending, even on good and noble pursuits, can not be had at the expense of everyone's childrens' futures.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=dmek25;557376]OK, then what do we do? just let things go on the way they are? pretty soon no one will make a decent wage, because of employers rising health care costs. and that's very hypocritical of you to all of a sudden worry about the national debt. where were you the last 8 years? right now, every U.S. business is feeling the bad economy. i promise, things will get better[/quote]
The problem is that goverment has shown time and time again that they cannot do things effecient and without tons of red tape. From your statement you act as if when the goverment takes over health ins that the hugh cost will go away and I say it will only increase. This will cause higher taxes on business and tax payers. If I was forced to provide health coverage for all my employees I would have to let someone go.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=firstdown;557386]My office has grown in the past year.[/quote]

My bad, I wasn't aware your office was it's own sector.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;557388]What alot of people don't seem to understand is how disgusted fiscal conservatives were with Bush about the debt. Doesn't mean they suddenly wanted Democrats in office, but they were not cheering Bush on as the country went on an ever larger spending spree.

Personally, i grew up a Republican, held a lot of ideals as a Republican, but after they had their chance and ended up going on spending sprees for the rich, at the country's expense, I could not vote for Republicans. Didn't want to vote Democratic either, cuz we know they will spend out of control, so that leaves me, and people like me, who want the government's roll to be minimal, and within a fixed budget, left without any useful voice. It is sad to see our country go down this road, and I speak of the out of control spending road, not Obama personally or even anti Democrat road. Just a road, where every single thing needs government assistance, or else somehow, we won't survive.
I hope I am wrong, I hope that Obama, the Democrats, and the Republicans all realize that unrestrained spending, even on good and noble pursuits, can not be had at the expense of everyone's childrens' futures.[/quote]

I am a disenfranchised fiscal conservative as well my friend. So i lean Republican, but god do they make some very crucial mistakes. We need a GNP(Grand New Party), with smart, charasmatic leaders that arent tied to the right so fastly. I'm sure you can imagine how difficult it is to be a pro-choice, fiscal conservative.