Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=Mattyk72;617195]So was JC and Ramsey before him.[/quote]

True...just have a real GM pick our next one!

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=Mattyk72;616881]I keep going back and forth on JC right now, half of me wonders if he's just so worried about the OL right now it's hurting his whole game. The other half of me says he needs to stand strong and make the throws despite of the pressure.

But honestly if you look around the league, anytime a QB faces heavy and consistent pressure, eventually he's going to fold, I don't care who you are.[/quote]

I feel the same way. I'm teetering on the fence about his performances. I think part of the problem is obviously the O-line but other QB's only have 3-7 sec. to get rid of the ball also. I see him not picking up where the blitz is coming from in obvious situations, I see him throwing the ball too late to the receivers forcing them to try to catch the ball behind them, he gets scared and throws the ball too soon when the receiver is not expecting it ie; two players getting hit in the helmit, checking down too soon when there is open receivers down field.

I'm not trying to bash him, I was one of the fans who thought he might work out since he did so well the first 8 games last yr, but he leaves me wondering what he has that would make any team want to keep him. What I see is if the receiver has not come to a complete stop, facing him, ready to catch the ball, with no defender with in 10 yrds JC doesn't like to throw the ball. Not sure if it's cause he's afraid to throw an interception or if he has trouble hitting moving targets. If we keep him the off season needs to be utilized trying to hit those moving golf targets. LOL.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=Mattyk72;616905]I find it hard to hate on Bugel when the talent simply isn't there. He's not a miracle worker.[/quote]Well, I sort of understand what he's trying to do, but if the argument is that a coach is responsible for putting players in a position to succeed, it's hard to argue that he's doing a good job.

You have Heyer, a decent RT who the team is trying to turn into a LT with little success. You have Rinehart, who is riding the bench for no really good reason, while Montgomery plays (terribly). You have Dockery and Rabach, who are the status quo at LG, and C, the common links on a bad line. And how much of the blame for Mike Williams should sit with him. Mike's been decent given the expectations, but that's not helping us win ball games.

Bugel shouldn't be expected to fix all the problems that are ailing us, especially when the backs are missing so many blocks, but this line is no better than it was 4 weeks ago, and that's a problem.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

I think JC's play last night was way more offensive than the offensive line.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;617110][B]The fact of the matter is we can get good tackles in the 2nd round and quality Centers in the 4th.[/B] On top of that we need to bring in real top tier Free Agents and I mean the type of guy that's at the same level Randy Thomas was when we brought him in. No more of these Jermey Bridges of the world. No I want a real quality Free Agent that's going to give us a run similar to Thomas. [/quote]Not Tackles or Centers that everyone agrees are good. You'd be selecting players who other, smarter teams passed over for whatever reason. Doesn't mean you won't hit, just that the chances hover more around a coin flip instead of a sure thing.

Quarterbacks, on the other hand, if you can tell the good ones from the bad ones, you can pick up a good one in the late second or third round. Whether or not they'll be a top ten "talent" depends on whether you're successful on those OL picks or not.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

How many times did Campbell have to pick himself up off the ground last night?

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=wordsmithgk;617379]How many times did Campbell have to pick himself up off the ground last night?[/quote]

Excluding times when he ran into a sack or ran towards pressure or didn't step up into the pocket?

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=jdlea;617064]Everything else you stated is pretty obvious. JC isn't going to come back here and if he does, he won't start. However, you didn't answer my question: How do you get those guys? Is Hasselbeck a free agent? I honestly don't know. Do you have faith he'll stay healthy behind this O Line?

How do you get Kolb? What does it take? What do you think it would take to acquire him? If it requires draft picks, wouldn't they be better spent on the O Line?

I'm asking because there will probably be a lot of guys cut this offseason that people on this board will turn up their noses at, but the Skins might consider. I honestly don't have an answer for what they should do. Since Campbell will likely not be a UFA because of the uncapped year, it might be wise to keep he and Colt around to compete next year with a totally rebuilt O Line. If that happens, people will piss and moan because they'll probably lose again, but they'll be in a much better position to grab a QB and hit the ground running in 2011.

I'm of the opinion that this team will need much more than one offseason to rebuild and compete again.

I think one thing people need to consider is "Is one more season of Jason Campbell worse than one more season of this offensive line?" If the answer is "No" you still try to get a FA QB, but you really can't trade for one unless you somehow find someone to give you picks for some of the garbage on this roster.[/quote]

Sorry was out, yes agree more than 1 year to rebuild. Oline should be the first to receive attention in the rebuilding process. To your question of how to get a QB: Im not in favor of drafting one this coming up year, but I feel to effectively start a rebuilding process will be with to rid our offense of players who has leveled out, peaked, stagnated etc...whatever you want to call it over last several years starting with the guy who has the ball in his hands the most, JC. There will be vets availible and I prefer somebody else at this point. Some guys just need a change of scenery...JC may be that way as well...so while we both understand this offense may take a couple years, getting a vet or guy who hasnt succeeded (D. Anderson, Brady Quinn, etc.) to get under center I wouldnt see as taking a substantial risk (unless we give a stupid ass contract). I just cant deal with JC anymore, im officially done with him. But before we can get there we need a new GM and an established NFL coach.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

Quick stupid question. When teams are bringing the house like the Eagles did last night, aren't you supposed to counter with screen passes, quick hits (slants, etc), move the pocket around, draw plays, etc? Other teams seem able to scheme against poor pass protection/over-aggressive Defenses. What's our deal? First half, I didn't think the pass protection was all that bad, but second half it was criminal.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

not backing JC or antying...but how do you have any pocket presence when your OL is getting beat and pressure is coming from all angles? He must be nervous turning his back to the defense knowing he is going to get rocked...

what's funnier is Cerrato said that he handed Jim Zorn a playoff team earlier today on the radio...what a JOKE!

and one more thing...they need to either fire zorn now...or let him be the coach.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=44Deezel;617402]Quick stupid question. When teams are bringing the house like the Eagles did last night, aren't you supposed to counter with screen passes, quick hits (slants, etc), move the pocket around, draw plays, etc? Other teams seem able to scheme against poor pass protection/over-aggressive Defenses. What's our deal? First half, I didn't think the pass protection was all that bad, but second half it was criminal.[/quote]

I'm bothered by this too, and I suspect the answer is twofold. First, our coaches, whether it's Zorn or Lewis, are terrible at making adjustments. I've said before Zorn may have the most genius gameplan in the world up to kick-off, once things start to inevitably unravel he doesn't adjust the calls wisely. Last night was the same story...like you said where were the quick slants, screens and RB dump-offs to punish the defense for sending the house? The second problem is we evidently don't run an offense that allows for adjustment at the LOS. Like they joked on ESPN last night Jason doesn't know what an audible is.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

It would help if the offense had audibles to begin with. Can't fault JC for that.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

This is a really, really good thread IMO...lots of quality discussion in the midst of a ruined franchise so props to everyone. I'm never again assuming lil D will learn a lesson and make solid decisions as the real GM, but if luck has it we somehow start down the right track this is what I think it should look like:

Build our offense through the draft next year. We likely will have the 4 or 5 overall pick as St. Louis, KC, Tampa, Detroit and ourselves suck the bottom of the NFL aquarium in '09. We should get the 2nd best overall LT there as a no-brainer pick. That high 2nd round pick is perfect for a starting center...Rabach must never play again after this season. The best RB available in the 3rd rd makes sense, but if there's another quality o-lineman available I would grab him and wait on the RB.

I'm assuming we bring in a legit WR coach to develop our investments at the position. The next big question mark is QB. I definitely think Jason is gone after this season. I would like to see us bring in the best veteran QB available to compete w/ Colt for the starting spot. I definitely wouldn't invest a high draft pick there...just doesn't make sense.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=Mattyk72;617421]It would help if the offense had audibles to begin with. Can't fault JC for that.[/quote]

An NFL offense without a full slate of audibles...what a great idea!

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=Lotus;617430]An NFL offense without a full slate of audibles...what a great idea![/quote]

Al Saunders understands. I don't however.

I can only imagine being a QB at the line of scrimmage thinking shit, we're gonna get blown up this play, and you can't do a thing about it.