Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;329808]True...he is truely someone that is PC to bash. More so than any other president in history.[/QUOTE]

I think it's the era we live in now. Back in the day, there was limited media coverage and the relationship between press and politicians was significantly tighter so FDR could hide his polio, JFK could hide his women.

Now a days, everyone is on mission for the "truth" and determined-more than ever it seems-to find fault in leaders and newsmakers. And all you needs is a computer and an Internet connection to fire up a blog and spread your message out to the world.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

The Media blows everything up too much and it gets taken out on everyone. Americans are the most impressionable people in the world.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;329815]I think it's the era we live in now. Back in the day, there was limited media coverage and the relationship between press and politicians was significantly tighter so FDR could hide his polio, JFK could hide his women.

Now a days, everyone is on mission for the "truth" and determined-more than ever it seems-to find fault in leaders and newsmakers. And all you needs is a computer and an Internet connection to fire up a blog and spread your message out to the world.[/QUOTE]


That's very true.
I'm surprised that Bush hasn't been impeached yet. The only two ever to go through that is Nixon and Clinton.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

You make your bed, you sleep in it. Everyone in here talks about personally responsibility...what about president and crew. Why should we make an exception and hold them to a lesser standard?

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;329840]You make your bed, you sleep in it. Everyone in here talks about personally responsibility...what about president and crew. Why should we make an exception and hold them to a lesser standard?[/QUOTE]


Umm what? Is this in response to someone...or just a random thought?

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=jsarno;329833]That's very true.
I'm surprised that Bush hasn't been impeached yet. The only two ever to go through that is Nixon and Clinton.[/quote]


You know, I've always thought Clinton's impeachment was complete b.s. but after watching the last episode of [URL="http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/watch.html"]Bill Moyers Journal[/URL] I completely changed my mind. I think bringing up impeachment proceedings was the right thing to do. It was unfortunate that it was politicized and wasn't based on principles.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=jsarno;329841]Umm what? Is this in response to someone...or just a random thought?[/quote]


I'm just defending the media's reporting on the Bush administration, granted I don't think they're doing a good job of it.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;329849]I'm just defending the media's reporting on the Bush administration, granted I don't think they're doing a good job of it.[/QUOTE]

oh, gotcha.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;329843]You know, I've always thought Clinton's impeachment was complete b.s. but after watching the last episode of [URL="http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/watch.html"]Bill Moyers Journal[/URL] I completely changed my mind. I think bringing up impeachment proceedings was the right thing to do. It was unfortunate that it was politicized and wasn't based on principles.[/QUOTE]


He most certainly deserved it. I think the fact that he was well liked by dems clouded the fact that he did deserve it.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=jsarno;329833]That's very true.
I'm surprised that Bush hasn't been impeached yet. The only two ever to go through that is Nixon and Clinton.[/quote]


No, Andrew Johnson was nearly impeached in 1868.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;329849]I'm just defending the media's reporting on the Bush administration, granted I don't think they're doing a good job of it.[/QUOTE]

True. My only point was that past Presidents haven't had to "sleep in the bed they made" because times were different.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;329855]No, Andrew Johnson was nearly impeached in 1868.[/QUOTE]

It was my understanding that only two presidents went through impeachment and that's Nixon and Clinton. I never heard anything about Johnson.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=jsarno;329858]It was my understanding that only two presidents went through impeachment and that's Nixon and Clinton. I never heard anything about Johnson.[/quote]


[url=http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/trials13.htm]JURIST - Impeachment 1868: The Trial of Andrew Johnson[/url]

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

FYI. The wiggle your big toe comment from Kill Bill was actually a Quote from FDR after he was recovering from poliomyelitis. Just thought you might find that interesting.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

If anyone is interested here's the entire Bill Moyers Journal episode.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=60CE2FD6927372EC]Bill Moyers Journal.[/url]

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=jsarno;329858]It was my understanding that only two presidents went through impeachment and that's Nixon and Clinton. I never heard anything about Johnson.[/quote]
Nixon was not impeached he resigned before it could happen.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

As I understand it, NO President has ever been impeached. There have been impeachment trials, but no President has ever been impeached. Like Firstdown said, Nixon's impeachment was inevitable, so he resigned beforehand.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

Back in 1867-68, somewhere around there the House impeached Andrew Johnson. But the Senate didn't convict him

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

Didn't the same thing happen to Clinton, or was he acquitted at the House level? Either way, both were acquitted, and that doesn't constitute impeachment because they were not removed from office.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=GhettoDogAllStars;329959]Didn't the same thing happen to Clinton, or was he acquitted at the House level? Either way, both were acquitted, and that doesn't constitute impeachment because they were not removed from office.[/QUOTE]

I think you're confusing impeachment with conviction. Impeachment merely means formal charges have been brought, similar to an indictment. Impeachment is merely the first step toward removal from office.

JoeRedskin, can I get an Amen?

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

Amen

Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution states:
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, [B][I]and [/I][/B]Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Essentially, a resolution to initiate impeachment proceedings is initiated in the House of Reps and forwarded to a committee for review. If the committee believes grounds for impeachment exist, it drafts articles of impeachment and submits them to the full House for approval. If passed by a majority vote, the Articles are then sent to the Senate which conducts a trial where the Senators sit as the judges and the Representatives act as the "prosecutor". Conviction takes a two-thirds vote of the entire Senate.

Clinton and Johnson were both impeached but aquitted.
Nixon resigned before being impeached. The impeachment process had begun as the House Judiciary Committee had recommended charges but the formal impeachment had not been approved by the House. Nixon deemed (correctly) that both the impeachment and subsequent conviction as inevitable and resigned instead.

Actual impeachments of only the following seventeen federal officers have taken place:

Two presidents: Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton, both acquitted.
One cabinet officer, acquitted after he had resigned.
One senator
Thirteen federal judges, including Associate Justice Samuel Chase in 1805, seven of whom were convicted (after his conviction, former judge Alcee Hastings was elected as a member of the House of Representatives).

[I]See[/I] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States]Impeachment in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;329972]Amen

Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution states:
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, [B][I]and [/I][/B]Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Essentially, a resolution to initiate impeachment proceedings is initiated in the House of Reps and forwarded to a committee for review. If the committee believes grounds for impeachment exist, it drafts articles of impeachment and submits them to the full House for approval. If passed by a majority vote, the Articles are then sent to the Senate which conducts a trial where the Senators sit as the judges and the Representatives act as the "prosecutor". Conviction takes a two-thirds vote of the entire Senate.

Clinton and Johnson were both impeached but aquitted.
Nixon resigned before being impeached. The impeachment process had begun as the House Judiciary Committee had recommended charges but the formal impeachment had not been approved by the House. Nixon deemed (correctly) that both the impeachment and subsequent conviction as inevitable and resigned instead.

Actual impeachments of only the following seventeen federal officers have taken place:

Two presidents: Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton, both acquitted.
One cabinet officer, acquitted after he had resigned.
One senator
Thirteen federal judges, including Associate Justice Samuel Chase in 1805, seven of whom were convicted (after his conviction, former judge Alcee Hastings was elected as a member of the House of Representatives).

[I]See[/I] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States]Impeachment in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url][/QUOTE]

Good post, thanks Joe.
Still makes you wonder why Bush has not gone through this. I guess he's not as bad as people say.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;329863]FYI. The wiggle your big toe comment from Kill Bill was actually a Quote from FDR after he was recovering from poliomyelitis. Just thought you might find that interesting.[/QUOTE]

Never saw Kill Bill...or Kill Bill 2.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;329972]Amen

Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution states:
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, [B][I]and [/I][/B]Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Essentially, a resolution to initiate impeachment proceedings is initiated in the House of Reps and forwarded to a committee for review. If the committee believes grounds for impeachment exist, it drafts articles of impeachment and submits them to the full House for approval. If passed by a majority vote, the Articles are then sent to the Senate which conducts a trial where the Senators sit as the judges and the Representatives act as the "prosecutor". Conviction takes a two-thirds vote of the entire Senate.

Clinton and Johnson were both impeached but aquitted.
Nixon resigned before being impeached. The impeachment process had begun as the House Judiciary Committee had recommended charges but the formal impeachment had not been approved by the House. Nixon deemed (correctly) that both the impeachment and subsequent conviction as inevitable and resigned instead.

Actual impeachments of only the following seventeen federal officers have taken place:

Two presidents: Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton, both acquitted.
One cabinet officer, acquitted after he had resigned.
One senator
Thirteen federal judges, including Associate Justice Samuel Chase in 1805, seven of whom were convicted (after his conviction, former judge Alcee Hastings was elected as a member of the House of Representatives).

[I]See[/I] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States]Impeachment in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url][/QUOTE]

My bad. Thanks for setting me straight, JR and SS.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;329972]Amen

Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution states:
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, [B][I]and [/I][/B]Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Essentially, a resolution to initiate impeachment proceedings is initiated in the House of Reps and forwarded to a committee for review. If the committee believes grounds for impeachment exist, it drafts articles of impeachment and submits them to the full House for approval. If passed by a majority vote, the Articles are then sent to the Senate which conducts a trial where the Senators sit as the judges and the Representatives act as the "prosecutor". Conviction takes a two-thirds vote of the entire Senate.

Clinton and Johnson were both impeached but aquitted.
Nixon resigned before being impeached. The impeachment process had begun as the House Judiciary Committee had recommended charges but the formal impeachment had not been approved by the House. Nixon deemed (correctly) that both the impeachment and subsequent conviction as inevitable and resigned instead.

Actual impeachments of only the following seventeen federal officers have taken place:

Two presidents: Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton, both acquitted.
One cabinet officer, acquitted after he had resigned.
One senator
Thirteen federal judges, including Associate Justice Samuel Chase in 1805, seven of whom were convicted (after his conviction, former judge Alcee Hastings was elected as a member of the House of Representatives).

[I]See[/I] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States"]Impeachment in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL][/quote]

Well stated, but trying to explain this is like shoveling fleas. In two pages someone else will make an incorrect statement related to impeachment. I made a similar if less eloquent post on the first page of another thread and there were 3 subsequent pages of argument about the process.

[YT]D4AZCnH4PYg[/YT]

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;330196]Well stated, but trying to explain this is like shoveling fleas. In two pages someone else will make an incorrect statement related to impeachment. I made a similar if less eloquent post on the first page of another thread and there were 3 subsequent pages of argument about the process.[/QUOTE]


If it's a pile of dead fleas, should be fairly easy! :D

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;330196]Well stated, but trying to explain this is like shoveling fleas. In two pages someone else will make an incorrect statement related to impeachment. I made a similar if less eloquent post on the first page of another thread and there were 3 subsequent pages of argument about the process.[/QUOTE]

If in two pages someone else makes an incorrect statement about impeachment, it won't be me. Even if only one person learns something, it is not worthless.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[quote=jsarno;329980]Good post, thanks Joe.
Still makes you wonder why Bush has not gone through this. I guess he's not as bad as people say.[/quote]


Bush hasn't gone through it because Republicans are protecting him in Congress; and because Pelosi wants to keep Bush as President to the end of his term. She thinks that keeping this Republican administration in office until the next election will ensure Democratic wins in both houses as well as a democratic president.
Their thinking is probably sound. There's enough scandal and imcompetence in the administration to roast Republicans for the next year and a half and then some.
Consistent with this, the dems fear that Republicans may make a come back if Bush and his administration are out the picture.
The irony is that, in the last analysis, Bush will probably not be impeached because he is as bad as they say. Republicans have to stay with him because their roles in supporting Bush in illegal acts in the past will become extremely damaging to them if there is a trial. As for the Democrats, they want to keep this thing going because they think Republicans will end up destroying themselves under Bush for decades.
Whatever, Bush is being spared for now because of the political plans of both parties, not because he hasn't deserved impeachment and conviction.

Re: The legacy of 'W'?
 

[QUOTE=Crazyhorse1;330993]Bush hasn't gone through it because Republicans are protecting him in Congress; and because Pelosi wants to keep Bush as President to the end of his term. She thinks that keeping this Republican administration in office until the next election will ensure Democratic wins in both houses as well as a democratic president.
Their thinking is probably sound. There's enough scandal and imcompetence in the administration to roast Republicans for the next year and a half and then some.
Consistent with this, the dems fear that Republicans may make a come back if Bush and his administration are out the picture.
The irony is that, in the last analysis, Bush will probably not be impeached because he is as bad as they say. Republicans have to stay with him because their roles in supporting Bush in illegal acts in the past will become extremely damaging to them if there is a trial. As for the Democrats, they want to keep this thing going because they think Republicans will end up destroying themselves under Bush for decades.
Whatever, Bush is being spared for now because of the political plans of both parties, not because he hasn't deserved impeachment and conviction.[/QUOTE]

Those are actually very good points.
I would still like to think that enough people hate Bush to try it, but your points make sense.