Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;465270]Okay, so you misspoke. You said that "he played his 1st 2 games the way he should be playing all his games (especially the preseason ones)." I suppose you meant "he played his 1st 2 games the way he should be playing in the preseason."[/QUOTE]

Yes because its only a few series. I dont think there should be a whole lot of drop off in the regular season but since he is playing longer I would expect the stats to drop proportionally.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=hesscl34;465274]You didn't check my threads.. I did praise him for looking sharp in his last two games.[/quote]

Of course I didn't check your threads. If you have a take throw it out there. If we had to search for everyone's past opinions on everything there wouldn't be much discussion going on.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;465271]I don't think a lot of us are giving him a ton of love. We're arguing that he should be given time (i.e., more than 1 season's worth of game experience) to develop.[/quote]

And I agree he needs time, but when if blows games that he shouldn't blow you won't see me keeping my mouth shut. I'm not just going to sit back and say "give him more time"...

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=Mattyk72;465276]Of course I didn't check your threads. If you have a take throw it out there. If we had to search for everyone's past opinions on everything there wouldn't be much discussion going on.[/quote]

You know my take. Time to get off the train. Have fun Irish..

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;465273]I'd take that bet, especially if you think it's going to be Colt as the starter.[/QUOTE]

I didnt say anything about Colt being the starter. I have no idea who the starter will be but my bet is it wont be JC.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;465272]Well, if that's the case you're really assuming a lot of things are going to take place at the same time.

First, you're assuming that JC will at least have a worse season than he his previous one. Because even if he does exactly the same and no better, chances are he'll be the starter again in 2010.

So let's assume he regresses some statistically this year. Then we're assuming, Colt Brennan, whom we've seen all of two pre-season halves this year, will some how kick it up several notches and seriously challenge Jason Campbell for the starting gig in 2010.

All of that is one hell of a long shot. Could it happen? Sure, anything can in the NFL. But when I look around the league these days, you have a few teams trying to get their hands on a 38 year old quarterback named Brett Favre. Chad Pennington, who has been middle of the road most of his career, is instantly starting in Miami. The picture is still far from clear in places like San Francisco, Chicago, and Tamp Bay, where Garcia has yet to hit the field. Philly is always a touch and go situation, Atlanta will start will probably start a rookie, and the list goes on and on.

Point being, good quarterbacks aren't in abundance these days, and when you have a guy like Jason Campbell, who many feel is on the cusp of being one of the better young QBs in the league, you're not going to nit pick and look for reasons to bench him. Unless he completely falls apart and at the same time Brennan puts in some serious work and put's up some eye opening numbers, it just won't happen.[/QUOTE]

There are 2 seasons between now and 2010 and I suspect that by then we will know if he can cut it.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=irish;465275]Yes because its only a few series. I dont think there should be a whole lot of drop off in the regular season but since he is playing longer I would expect the stats to drop proportionally.[/QUOTE]

What does the number of series have to do with it? I've never heard of anyone ever claiming that QBs tend to play really well in their first few series and then play poorly by the 2nd Q. Nor do I think there is ANY reason why QBs have some competitive advantage in preseason play versus the regular season.

Bottom line, what kind of stats would it take to make you think JC is THE guy?

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=hesscl34;465279]You know my take. Time to get off the train. Have fun Irish..[/quote]

Wise move, I'm hopping off this short bus myself.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;465282]What does the number of series have to do with it? I've never heard of anyone ever claiming that QBs tend to play really well in their first few series and then play poorly by the 2nd Q. Nor do I think there is ANY reason why QBs have some competitive advantage in preseason play versus the regular season.

Bottom line, what kind of stats would it take to make you think JC is THE guy?[/QUOTE]

I think a smaller sample size can skew the results for good or bad.


To be honest I really dont even look at the stats because they can be misleading. When I watch JC I see a QB that is a slow decision maker that takes too long to get the ball out which results in stalled drives. Maybe he will improve this season, time will tell.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=irish;465284]I think a smaller sample size can skew the results for good or bad.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

[QUOTE=irish;465284]So if a QB has no competitive advantage in the preseason than Colt is really playing well and should be challenging JC for the starting job since he looked good Sat?[/QUOTE]

Nope. Colt's going up against 3rd and 4th stringers, whereas JC is playing against the starters.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;465288]Agreed.



Nope. Colt's going up against 3rd and 4th stringers, whereas JC is playing against the starters.[/QUOTE]

Right, Colt has a competitive advantage over JC.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=irish;465290]Right, Colt has a competitive advantage over JC.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but that doesn't contradict anything I said elsewhere in the thread.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=hesscl34;465205][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Some guy on extskins was talking about how at the end of the game his buddy bet him that Colt wouldn't make a TD before the end of the game, so he immediately bet him a $100 that Colt would make that TD. At the end of it, he collected $300 from people that bet against Colt. He then goes on to say he never would have made that bet if JC was in, and he’s a JC supporter. Why is that? ... makes you think.[/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]
Well I read that thread and he says his bet was with one person who gave him 3 to 1 odds that Colt would not score a TD. OK, either the guy he bet is very well off, is not very smart, had drank too many beers because that is a dumb bet, or the guy made up the whole story. I'm saying he made it up as he then uses the post to point out flaws in JC and I did not see anywhere in his post where he was a JC supporter as you stated.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=irish;465284]I think a smaller sample size can skew the results for good or bad.


To be honest I really dont even look at the stats because they can be misleading. [B]When I watch JC I see a QB that is a slow decision maker that takes too long to get the ball out which results in stalled drives. Maybe he will improve this season, time will tell[/B].[/quote]

Against the Jets yes his decision making was slow. I'd chalk that up to him seeing the 3-4 for the first time in a while and because of no game planning/special preperation for that D.

In the previous 2 games however I thought he was very good at getting the ball out quickly.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=hesscl34;465236]It's not about this one game, it's about the games prior when he did the same things. You want to see those things corrected, not continuing as he progresses.[/quote]

Do you understand that this is pre season and there is no game planning for a particular defense? It seemed to me that the Jets were blitzing and we didn't prepare for it at all. As far as last year goes I think JC was solid. He wasn't bad and he wasn't great. I think he was right about where a first year starter would be. Do you expect every QB to be Tom Brady?

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

Did anyone ever think that the Jets had a game plain for this game and the welcoming of Farve. If they came in this game cold without a plain it would have been very stupid. They really needed good showing for Farve and if things would have gone bad it could have really stired the pot and the media would have all started second guessing this move.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

Three things I concluded from the Skins/Jets game over the weekend:


1. Kellen Clemens is a lot further away from being a mediocre starting QB than I had thought before.

2. Vernon Gholston cannot play OLB in the NFL. He can rush the passer but that's it. He does not play the run well and he can't cover a corpse. Taking him sixth and paying him $20M guaranteed will be a huge mistake if they don't move him to ILB or beef him up and make him a DE.

3. The Jets must have wanted to play OT to have a better look at players or plays. Why else would they try that late field goal in an exhibition game?


Oh, by the way, barring injuries the only time you will see Colt Brennan under center for the Skins in 2008 is if there is another game like the Pats game last year where the score is 52-7 in the 4th quarter. Wouldn't matter which team was ahead at that point but that's when you'll be seeing Brennan this year.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=firstdown;465306]Did anyone ever think that the Jets had a game plain for this game and the welcoming of Farve. If they came in this game cold without a plain it would have been very stupid. They really needed good showing for Farve and if things would have gone bad it could have really stired the pot and the media would have all started second guessing this move.[/quote]

I think he was probably playing with a very limited package of plays in order to help him get off to a good start. Not only for the fans and media but I think to help him feel comfortable right off the bat.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=Mattyk72;465312]I think he was probably playing with a very limited package of plays in order to help him get off to a good start. Not only for the fans and media but I think to help him feel comfortable right off the bat.[/quote]
Well we know they had limited plays because of his time there but I think they also had a total game plain so the Farve move started off on the right foot. If Farve would have come out and the Jets looked like crap the media would have started questioning the Farve move and it could have gone down hill quick in the big apple.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;465312]I think he was probably playing with a very limited package of plays in order to help him get off to a good start. Not only for the fans and media but I think to help him feel comfortable right off the bat.[/QUOTE]

I agree 100%, you know how big of a media city NY is, and if they would have gone into that game and completely flopped, the media would be eating them up and they would be trying to dig themselves out of a whole all year.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=firstdown;465316]Well we know they had limited plays because of his time there but I think they also had a total [B]game plain[/B] so the Farve move started off on the right foot. If Farve would have come out and the Jets looked like crap the media would have started questioning the Farve move and it could have gone down hill quick in the big apple.[/quote]

You mean he's a [URL="http://www.datpiff.com/Smitty-The-Game-Plain-mid10281.html"]Smitty fan[/URL]?

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=Mattyk72;465318]You mean he's a [URL="http://www.datpiff.com/Smitty-The-Game-Plain-mid10281.html"]Smitty fan[/URL]?[/quote]
He did the half time show.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;465282]

Bottom line, what kind of stats would it take to make you think JC is THE guy?[/quote]


For me, It would be a QB rating of 85+ for this year, and 95+ next year.

Pre-season doesn't count.

J-Dawg.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=jgalecpa;465325]For me, It would be a QB rating of 85+ for this year, and 95+ next year.[/QUOTE]

Your expectations for 2008 might be a tad bit too high. Neither Phillip Rivers nor Derek Anderson had a QB rating of 85+ in 2007. I'd be fine with anything in the 80s. A QB rating in the 80s for someone with about 2 seasons worth of starting experience (which is how much experience JC will have at the end of this season) is decent.

Your expectations for 2009 are astronomical. Only 6 QBs had a QB rating of 95+ in 2007. I'm not prepared to say, "If JC isn't a top 5 QB in 2009, I say we junk him." To say otherwise would mean that you believe that guys like Matt Hasselbeck, Donovan McNabb, Drew Brees, Carson Palmer, Jay Cutler, Matt Schaub, and Jeff Garcia (none of whom had a rating of 95+ in 2007) don't make the cut.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

Personally, if JC doesn't break Peyton's Mannings TD/Season record, he's pretty much trash and not worth the draft picks we traded for him. We should dump him while the dumping's good May be we can a conditional 6th or 7th rounder for him. He's been a pro how long? By this time, Farve was a pro-bowler, Peyton was All World and Derek Anderson had taken "the next step". We'll know by the the end of the first quarter in the Giants' game whether JC is the starter in 2010 or not.

<sarcasm font off>

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;465326]Your expectations for 2008 might be a tad bit too high. Neither Phillip Rivers nor Derek Anderson had a QB rating of 85+ in 2007. I'd be fine with anything in the 80s. A QB rating in the 80s for someone with about 2 seasons worth of starting experience (which is how much experience JC will have at the end of this season) is decent.

Your expectations for 2009 are astronomical. Only 6 QBs had a QB rating of 95+ in 2007. I'm not prepared to say, "If JC isn't a top 5 QB in 2009, I say we junk him." To say otherwise would mean that you believe that guys like Matt Hasselbeck, Donovan McNabb, Drew Brees, Carson Palmer, Jay Cutler, Matt Schaub, and Jeff Garcia (none of whom had a rating of 95+ in 2007) don't make the cut.[/quote]

Fair enough.

My point is, that he had virtually unchanged qb ratings for the partial 2006 year, and the longer 2007 season.

He needs to improve, and improve with each of the next two years.

The whole idea of a learning curve is that as with experience, one gets better, increasing productivity.

That's what I'm looking for in any player early in his career, but espcially the QB.

J-Dawg.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;465330]Personally, if JC doesn't break Peyton's Mannings TD/Season record, he's pretty much trash and not worth the draft picks we traded for him. We should dump him while the dumping's good May be we can a conditional 6th or 7th rounder for him. He's been a pro how long? By this time, Farve was a pro-bowler, Peyton was All World and Derek Anderson had taken "the next step". We'll know by the the end of the first quarter in the Giants' game whether JC is the starter in 2010 or not.

<sarcasm font off>[/QUOTE]

First of all. If you think JC is goign to break Peyton's Manning TD record you are seriously not in touch with reality. How many years did it take for Peyton Manningto break it. Als you can't compare him to Peyton Manning at this point. You also can't compare him to Favre at this point. Your expectations are unrealistic. To be honest. His first 16 games as a starter are better than most of these QB's you listed TD/INT ratio. Usually there are far more INTs than TDs. Which I think is a good sign. If Jason had been able to start earlier and had the same offense for more than one year. He would be light years ahead of where he is now.

One game is not a determining factor for whether or not we dump Jason Campbell. We atleast have to give him a season unless he is horrendous through the season as has to be pulled which I seriously doubt. Manning was horrible his first couple of years. But they had patinece with him and you see what happens. We don't have that here.

Just my rebuttal...Unless your being sarcastic..lol

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;465271]I don't think a lot of us are giving him a ton of love. We're arguing that he should be given time (i.e., more than 1 season's worth of game experience) to develop.[/QUOTE]

Agreed!!...We will never have a quality QB here if we dont let him develop. Its takes more than 20 or so more odd games..That's less than a season in a half..Be real people. If you dont think him switching offensive coordiantors every year doesn't affect things then you are wrong. Even Favre said its difficult switching to a new offense and he is a well season vet and they had to limit the play book for him when we played the Jets. So dont get it twisted.

Saying that..He has less TDs than interceptions. Not many QBs including Manning can say that in their first 20 games..Some people need to get a clue..because they obviously dont know anything about football and have little patience.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=dmvskinzfan08;465360]First of all. If you think JC is goign to break Peyton's Manning TD record you are seriously not in touch with reality. How many years did it take for Peyton Manningto break it. Als you can't compare him to Peyton Manning at this point. You also can't compare him to Favre at this point. Your expectations are unrealistic. To be honest. His first 16 games as a starter are better than most of these QB's you listed TD/INT ratio. Usually there are far more INTs than TDs. Which I think is a good sign. If Jason had been able to start earlier and had the same offense for more than one year. He would be light years ahead of where he is now.

One game is not a determining factor for whether or not we dump Jason Campbell. We atleast have to give him a season unless he is horrendous through the season as has to be pulled which I seriously doubt. Manning was horrible his first couple of years. But they had patinece with him and you see what happens. We don't have that here.

Just my rebuttal...Unless your being sarcastic..lol[/QUOTE]

Me? Sarcastic? Never.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;465364]Me? Sarcastic? Never.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you need a bigger sarcasm font

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

For JC to have a QB rating 85+ then Moss is going to have to be healthy along with the oline. To me a 77 QB rating isn't bad when the skins had their #1 and #2 wideouts injured for the early part of the season and makeshift oline. Also one of the rookies eventually is going to have to step up as the #2 for JC to put up impressive numbers.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

QB ratings? That's how we're judging him??!

I'd rather hope for a QB that doesn't choke when the game is on the line.

Bring back Patrick Ramsey! (sarcasm)

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

Not sure where else to ask this so I'll post here. What's the status on Betts? I haven't heard anything for updates on the team site.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=The Goat;465479]Not sure where else to ask this so I'll post here. What's the status on Betts? I haven't heard anything for updates on the team site.[/quote]

light sprain to knee...

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[quote=Ade Jimoh Fan Club;465391]QB ratings? That's how we're judging him??!

I'd rather hope for a QB that doesn't choke when the game is on the line.

Bring back Patrick Ramsey! (sarcasm)[/quote]


Can't think of a better way to judge a QB.

His qb rating in close games is in the fifties.

J-Dawg.

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=hesscl34;465480]light sprain to knee...[/QUOTE]

Is he set to play this weekend?

Re: Gameday Thread Jets- Skins
 

[QUOTE=The Goat;465884]Is he set to play this weekend?[/QUOTE]

Probably. I don't know for sure, but I'm almost positive he's back practicing